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SWAM v3 - (How much for IAP? Pay again for each SWAM for v4? How crippled is iOS version, really?)

zahzah
edited August 2 in General App Discussion

I am seeing that there is a bunch of locked content on iOS version3 (v3) that is not on desktop. Hard to find out all in, for example SWAM violin, but I'm seeing no "attack ramp speed" option in Expressivity section. In Timbre section, Rosin and 2nd harmonic levels are locked. Advanced is pretty much locked. Something is locked in the LeftHand Playmode, but I'm unsure what that is.

I can't find out what is locked in MIDI. is anything locked there?

I'm unsure what Parameter Lock (on Preset Browsing) is.

Any ideas as to how much this IAP to unlock will cost?

I own Pianoteq on desktop, and they are constantly improving the modelling over time, but what will be the pricing of improved modelled SWAM v4 when it comes out? (next year?)

Will it be a whole separate purchase on iOS?

Any insights greatly appreciated! :)

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Comments

  • As far as I know, no one knows if/when Audio Modeling will unlock the locked parameters.

  • Worth noting that you can still access them via the AU parameters. So you can assign any MIDI controller to those parameters. So they're not completely inaccessible, which is strange. I thought perhaps it was an oversight, but the apps have been out for a while, and they haven't patched it.

  • @Skyblazer said:
    Worth noting that you can still access them via the AU parameters. So you can assign any MIDI controller to those parameters. So they're not completely inaccessible, which is strange. I thought perhaps it was an oversight, but the apps have been out for a while, and they haven't patched it.

    Really. I need to check that out. What parameters have the greatest payoff?

    I got one of those CC and pitch bending rings so I’m looking for expressive targets to play with.

  • @McD said:

    @Skyblazer said:
    Worth noting that you can still access them via the AU parameters. So you can assign any MIDI controller to those parameters. So they're not completely inaccessible, which is strange. I thought perhaps it was an oversight, but the apps have been out for a while, and they haven't patched it.

    Really. I need to check that out. What parameters have the greatest payoff?

    I got one of those CC and pitch bending rings so I’m looking for expressive targets to play with.

    Actually, it looks like they did remove the ability to access the locked parameters via MIDI. Now I wish I wouldn't have updated them. They're still in the parameter list, but they don't appear to do anything when you send MIDI to them.

  • @zah: they are not crippled. While, it would be nice to access those params, it strikes me as overdramatic to use the word crippled.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @zah: they are not crippled. While, it would be nice to access those params, it strikes me as overdramatic to use the word crippled.

    I think that's one of those words that has more than one meaning but you will be in big trouble with the wrong audience.

    So, I guess I need to experiment point my "ring" at various app parameters and see what works.

    I'm really glad I'm don't write software. People can be pretty harsh even when a product is
    simply beyond anything in it's class. Go figure. The customer is always.... the customer.

  • Most recordings I hear of SWAM performances posted to this forum don’t take full advantage of the unlocked parameters, which are the most important ones for creating a realistic sound. I was disappointed at the locked parameters myself, until I got the apps and realized that those parameters are so much less important that I shouldn’t really pay attention to them until I have mastered the “main” ones.

    I could spend years learning to emulate a cello with just the vibrato, expression, different bowing styles, bow pressure and bow position; and my sound would turn out better doing that, then tweaking overtone parameters or random vibrato rate etc.

  • Yeah, particularly if you are playing with an external mpe keyboard they are already plenty expressive. The locked parameters are mostly not a big deal to me

  • @FriedTapeworm said:
    Most recordings I hear of SWAM performances posted to this forum don’t take full advantage of the unlocked parameters, which are the most important ones for creating a realistic sound. I was disappointed at the locked parameters myself, until I got the apps and realized that those parameters are so much less important that I shouldn’t really pay attention to them until I have mastered the “main” ones.

    I could spend years learning to emulate a cello with just the vibrato, expression, different bowing styles, bow pressure and bow position; and my sound would turn out better doing that, then tweaking overtone parameters or random vibrato rate etc.

    I totally agree..also if one is intending to use them for realism, it is worth learning what sorts of lines don’t sound right. I particularly notice people using/not using vibrato in ways that call attention to itself.

  • The next thing on their roadmap is ensembles. Solo v4 is probably 5+years away.

  • zahzah
    edited August 3

    @McD said:
    I'm really glad I'm don't write software. People can be pretty harsh even when a product is
    simply beyond anything in it's class. Go figure. The customer is always.... the customer.

    @McD I'm not trying to be harsh. I'm trying to determine if these apps are worth my money. These are fairly expensive apps for me.

    re: products are "beyond anything in its class"
    AudioDamage mentioned a while back that his apps would be 1/10 of desktop price.
    High Class FabFilter Pro-Q 3 is 180 desktop and 30 iOS - 1/6 of desktop price.
    SWAM SOLO desktop is 120 and 30 iOS - for a 1/4 desktop price.

    And that's not even factoring in the IAP to unlock- what? 10/20 bucks? making the app more than 1/3 desktop price.

    I'm just hoping to get some insights into this app. And wondering why on earth things are locked and/or why there is yet no IAP to unlock.

    You seemed quite interested when @Skyblazer mentioned that you could still access the locked features via the AU parameters. But even he said that he wishes he didn't update the app losing those features. So the locked stuff appears valuable to him. And you as well.

  • zahzah
    edited August 3

    @espiegel123 said:
    @zah: they are not crippled. While, it would be nice to access those params, it strikes me as overdramatic to use the word crippled.

    I'm not quite sure what other word I could use. To me, it seems pretty benign. Type in "cripple" in Google NEWS Search to see the word in action.

  • zahzah
    edited August 3

    @FriedTapeworm said:
    I could spend years learning to emulate a cello with just the vibrato, expression, different bowing styles, bow pressure and bow position; and my sound would turn out better doing that, then tweaking overtone parameters or random vibrato rate etc.

    Yeah, true enough. But perhaps a locked parameter could give you just the sound/tone/effect you were looking for...

    @ion677 said:
    The next thing on their roadmap is ensembles. Solo v4 is probably 5+years away.

    You say 5+ years. I mention maybe next year. Maybe somewhere between those two figures? I'd guess closer to my end, though. :)

  • @zah said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @zah: they are not crippled. While, it would be nice to access those params, it strikes me as overdramatic to use the word crippled.

    I'm not quite sure what other word I could use. To me, it seems pretty benign. Type in "cripple" in Google NEWS Search to see the word in action.

    Cripple has an implication of uselessness. These are highly capable instruments that have a few parameters not available. Calling the AU's crippled gives a misimpression.

  • Maybe if you find a video highlighting some of the locked features, you would be able to judge if the desktop version is somehow a better choice for you. It might be difficult to find the features highlighted anywhere, because my gut tells me they are very minor compared to everything else.

    There’s a good chance that there won’t be any IAP in the future, so I wouldn’t factor that in. It was mentioned a long time ago when they were first released to iOS, and nothing has happened.

    My advice is to buy one instrument first, so you can judge for yourself. Your cost would be deducted from any future bundle. I think most of us can get by without having every instrument in a bundle (even though we of course want it all). You can do enough tweaking to make one instrument sound like a handful of different instruments. You really need an MPE midi controller (or an easy way to tweak multiple CCs simultaneously) to truly unlock the expressiveness of SWAM. You can always tweak things after the fact but it’s not the same as creating the sound live.

  • This video gives an example of what one might want to do with more advanced parameter changes. If you are interested in having a great sounding double bass on your tracks, then SWAM iOS has you covered. If you want to do more experimental sounds with the instrument, then you may find the locked parameters to be limiting.

  • edited August 3

    Hi @zah , not suggesting this is the best example of SWAM playing but it was well received when I posted it a week or so ago and thought it might be useful to hear what SWAM does now.
    This is out of the box basic SWAM Soprano Sax (Trane setting) with Breath and Key sounds to max and a tiny bit of vibrato ( @espiegel123 is right about vibrato!)
    I am using GeoShred to play it via MPE.
    Personally I would guess that you would get (just making the figures up) 95% of the sonic value with SWAM as it is now and an extra 5% with any future IAP since they tend to be niche settings I.e. I’m agreeing with @FriedTapeworm and others.
    I also completely agree with the last post from @Osidenick

  • Guys, which midi controllers do you use with SWAM?

  • @israelite said:
    Guys, which midi controllers do you use with SWAM?

    I use Roli Seaboard blocks. Unfortunately I often have problems when using 2 connected together over Bluetooth. Generally just using one has good results, or two that are connected separately. Sensel Morph did not play nice for me. I had extensive back and forth from support but we couldn't get to the bottom of the problems, sadly. Most likely a defective unit. I also use Geoshred and occasionally Velocity Keyboard. With Geoshred I need to adjust some slide settings to get them to play the way I want.

  • I use a Linnstrument 128. It’s expensive, but I love the way it works. I could easily get by without 95% of the music hardware and software I’ve bought in my life. The Linnstrument is in the 5% I’d rebuy if starting from scratch.

  • I use a couple of different midi keyboards, the onscreen keyboard and a Sensel Morph,

  • @israelite said:
    Guys, which midi controllers do you use with SWAM?

    I use a seaboard, GeoShred and Joué pro. They have different advantages l, so I use them in different circumstances. If you are in Europe, the tecontrol breath controller from Sweden is pretty commonly used for SWAM instruments over there.

  • @israelite said:
    Guys, which midi controllers do you use with SWAM?

    Wind controller, specifically the WARBL but anything that sends CC2 gets you in the party

  • I use an Artiphon Instrument 1.

  • Long time lurker, first time poster…had to sign up to say:

    1. SWAM on iOS is a great deal, very expressive and realistic even without all parameters unlocked. Also, Audio Modeling CTO has confirmed in the last two weeks on SWAM FB group, and also in an email to me after asking a month or so ago, the parameter unlocks are coming to iOS in 2022.

    2. Linnstrument is simply amazing. Best midi controller I have ever touched.

  • @Osidenick said:
    I use a Linnstrument 128. It’s expensive, but I love the way it works. I could easily get by without 95% of the music hardware and software I’ve bought in my life. The Linnstrument is in the 5% I’d rebuy if starting from scratch.

    Linnstrument 200 for me, and I agree completely with @Osidenick's point. I'd ditch just about every instrument I've ever bought but keep the Linnstrument. It feels like it can do everything I want out of an instrument, and more importantly that I can play anything I want on it

  • @KLL said:
    Long time lurker, first time poster…had to sign up to say:

    1. SWAM on iOS is a great deal, very expressive and realistic even without all parameters unlocked. Also, Audio Modeling CTO has confirmed in the last two weeks on SWAM FB group, and also in an email to me after asking a month or so ago, the parameter unlocks are coming to iOS in 2022.

    2. Linnstrument is simply amazing. Best midi controller I have ever touched.

    Thanks for the info! Some of those parameters can be very fun for creating music that intentionally sounds synthetic...and some are probably useful for realism, too.

  • @Skyblazer said:

    Thanks for the info! Some of those parameters can be very fun for creating music that intentionally sounds synthetic...and some are probably useful for realism, too.

    For sure! I agree it would/will be great to have everything available…I didn’t even noticed they were locked until I wanted to do something I had seen in the manuals I think which is why I emailed.

  • @israelite said:
    Guys, which midi controllers do you use with SWAM?

    AKAI - EWI5000

  • Also worth noting, SWAM apps are 33% off for month of August, and the sale applies to bundles as well.

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