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What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Gain staging in AUM

Some simple questions:

I want my volume sliders in AUM set to 0 dB and with a headroom of 10 dB in the output.
What is your method in the most simple way?

I tried this morning to play with levels on a couple of channels.
What i dit, is placing a gain (from AUM) at the start of the fx-chain, set the volume slider at 0 dB and then set gain to an output of about -10 dB in the level meter in the top of the screen (output meter), and also set the channel in solo-mode, so i can only meter that channel.

Does the output meter show peak level or average level?

What about the level knob inside an app. Do you use that instead of the gain fx?

If i use a dynamic sounding app like Troublemaker and change the nobs inside the app, i noticed that the output volume could get louder. Would it be wise to add a limiter to it, so the output volume has a ceiling?

When using bass drum and bass synth at the same time, and you want the bass drum punch through, what is the most simple way for side chain compression? I have Roughrider 3, but found it tedious to use (on with channel to use the app and on which channel AU-instance)

Thanks in advance :)

Comments

  • From what I've learned the meters in AUM show both RMS and Peak.
    I recall the RED led starts to blink at -3dbFS and the yellow lights up at around -9dbFS.

    Since AUM works with 32-bit floating point audio things do not really clip and can be brought down later on in the chain.

    When I need to adjust gain of a track I use the built-in Peak Limiter (Dynamics -> Peak Limiter) with attack and decay at minimum settings adjust the gain as needed.

    I use the Peak Limiter plug-in 'pre-fader' this way I can increase the gain as needed and it will never go past the value set by the mixer fader.

    That's roughly how I do it in AUM.

  • @Samu said:
    From what I've learned the meters in AUM show both RMS and Peak.
    I recall the RED led starts to blink at -3dbFS and the yellow lights up at around -9dbFS.

    Since AUM works with 32-bit floating point audio things do not really clip and can be brought down later on in the chain.

    When I need to adjust gain of a track I use the built-in Peak Limiter (Dynamics -> Peak Limiter) with attack and decay at minimum settings adjust the gain as needed.

    I use the Peak Limiter plug-in 'pre-fader' this way I can increase the gain as needed and it will never go past the value set by the mixer fader.

    That's roughly how I do it in AUM.

    Thanks for the comment, this is useful.
    One question though, does the peak limiter affect the sound when it pushes against the set value?

  • @Identor said:

    Thanks for the comment, this is useful.
    One question though, does the peak limiter affect the sound when it pushes against the set value?

    Only if you push it really hard, I mean it's after all a 'Limiter'.
    The limit is set at 0dbFS so if your source is already fairly loud and you push it another 15db you'll get some limiting.

    This is why I put it 'pre-fader' which makes it easier to control the track-level as it will never go past the level set with the fader.

    As with everything audio, let your ears be the judge :sunglasses:

  • @Samu said:

    @Identor said:

    Thanks for the comment, this is useful.
    One question though, does the peak limiter affect the sound when it pushes against the set value?

    Only if you push it really hard, I mean it's after all a 'Limiter'.
    The limit is set at 0dbFS so if your source is already fairly loud and you push it another 15db you'll get some limiting.

    This is why I put it 'pre-fader' which makes it easier to control the track-level as it will never go past the level set with the fader.

    As with everything audio, let your ears be the judge :sunglasses:

    Your are quiet right. I noticed, when i had drums and bass set. A pad synth, followed with a large reverb like Alteza, set to the same -10 dB sounds way too loud, so i had to lower the gain another 20+ dB to balance it by ear with the rest.

    This will be my workflow i guess. Set everything to -10 dB, and then reduce gain to appropriate levels, while maintaining the volume fader at 0 dB. This way i can alter faders in a live recording without worrying being out of volume balance.

  • edited July 2022

    I recommend the FREE Youlean Lite AUv3 post fader for gain staging and use it in every slot.
    https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter-lite/

  • @Identor said:

    Your are quiet right. I noticed, when i had drums and bass set. A pad synth, followed with a large reverb like Alteza, set to the same -10 dB sounds way too loud, so i had to lower the gain another 20+ dB to balance it by ear with the rest.

    Is Alteza's output gain maxed by default? Drumkit's is (both individual channels and the master) and it always needs to be adjusted so it doesn't blow out your ears.

  • edited July 2022

    @Samu said:
    From what I've learned the meters in AUM show both RMS and Peak.
    I recall the RED led starts to blink at -3dbFS and the yellow lights up at around -9dbFS.

    Since AUM works with 32-bit floating point audio things do not really clip and can be brought down later on in the chain.

    When I need to adjust gain of a track I use the built-in Peak Limiter (Dynamics -> Peak Limiter) with attack and decay at minimum settings adjust the gain as needed.

    I use the Peak Limiter plug-in 'pre-fader' this way I can increase the gain as needed and it will never go past the value set by the mixer fader.

    That's roughly how I do it in AUM.

    Thanks Samu. A very good suggestion. I had not considered the built-in peak limiter until now.

    I have now set the peak limiter once as a starting point in a slot to limit the input level pre-fader (or depending on the source also increase).

    With Youlean LM Lite I control the output signal post-fader. Of course also in possible bus channels or in the master.

    Below an example with a very loud FLAC file:

  • Hi @Iskander - Gain staging can be important depending on which FX plugins you use, but it's not at all important in AUM overall until you get to the master out. Internally there will never be clipping caused by going over 0db. That's a leftover concern from analog hardware and ancient DAWs that used 16bit integer processing. With internal 32 bit processing, there's never any problem with running out of headroom.

    Where it is important is on the main output, since that's likely to get converted to a sample depth that will clip over 0db. The other place it's important is when going in to an FX that saturates or distorts with higher inputs. Most such apps have an input gain adjustment of their own.

    Sure, it's good housekeeping to keep levels generally under control, but avoiding distortion from the DAW is not the reason. And adding more processing such as limiters where not needed is doing the opposite if your goal is to keep things transparent.

  • When I'm lazy I just slap TB Barricade on a bus to which I route everything to...

  • @Identor said:
    I tried this morning to play with levels on a couple of channels.
    What i dit, is placing a gain (from AUM) at the start of the fx-chain, set the volume slider at 0 dB and then set gain to an output of about -10 dB in the level meter in the top of the screen (output meter), and also set the channel in solo-mode, so i can only meter that channel.

    You don't need to solo the channel if you don't want to. If you tap the meter you get a menu where you can set the input of the meter to any channel you like.

  • edited July 2022

    @wim said:
    Hi @Iskander - Gain staging can be important depending on which FX plugins you use, but it's not at all important in AUM overall until you get to the master out. Internally there will never be clipping caused by going over 0db. That's a leftover concern from analog hardware and ancient DAWs that used 16bit integer processing. With internal 32 bit processing, there's never any problem with running out of headroom.

    Where it is important is on the main output, since that's likely to get converted to a sample depth that will clip over 0db. The other place it's important is when going in to an FX that saturates or distorts with higher inputs. Most such apps have an input gain adjustment of their own.

    Sure, it's good housekeeping to keep levels generally under control, but avoiding distortion from the DAW is not the reason. And adding more processing such as limiters where not needed is doing the opposite if your goal is to keep things transparent.

    Hi @wim, thanks for your comments.

    My point is that all individual channels together in the sum in the bus or master ideally already pre-fader remain below 0dB to still have enough headroom.
    But you are right, that using limiters in each slot in not the right way.

    At least with 'loud' channels (especially with samples, loops, loud audio files etc.) you have to counteract.
    In Cubase, I've been doing this for a long time using the gain control and tracking this level via gain staging through the entire FX chain of the channel.

    Here I simply try to act similarly with AUM, Cubasis or other DAWs.

  • @Samu said:
    When I'm lazy I just slap TB Barricade on a bus to which I route everything to...

    Lazy = Effective

    That’s a great tool. I the digital realm you’re not plagued with sinking into the noise floor or crashing into amplifier distortion. You just need to stay in the limits of the numeric encoding and it has massive range. Just limit those intense peaks and your covered. Is there a perfect tool to hit LUFS -14 given the fact that you don’t ever know when the peak is until post production final mix time? So just insure the limiter isn’t squashing your dynamics and making the music less interesting than it might be. Or maybe you want it to just sound as loud as possible which means compress it like crazy and crank it into the limiter…. Like a ton of metal music. Then you get really good at sidechaining that compression to keep the drums crisp in the mud.

    Sorry for the tone… I’m just bored in a hospital waiting room again. Medicare is great… you just need to make it to 65 before you die and then hope you’re not too far gone.

  • @McD said:

    @Samu said:
    When I'm lazy I just slap TB Barricade on a bus to which I route everything to...

    Lazy = Effective

    That’s a great tool. I the digital realm you’re not plagued with sinking into the noise floor or crashing into amplifier distortion. You just need to stay in the limits of the numeric encoding and it has massive range. Just limit those intense peaks and your covered. Is there a perfect tool to hit LUFS -14 given the fact that you don’t ever know when the peak is until post production final mix time? So just insure the limiter isn’t squashing your dynamics and making the music less interesting than it might be. Or maybe you want it to just sound as loud as possible which means compress it like crazy and crank it into the limiter…. Like a ton of metal music. Then you get really good at sidechaining that compression to keep the drums crisp in the mud.

    Sorry for the tone… I’m just bored in a hospital waiting room again. Medicare is great… you just need to make it to 65 before you die and then hope you’re not too far gone.

    No worries, I mostly use TB Barricade to protect my ears from accidental loud peaks :sunglasses:

    Hope everything will go ok for you 🙏🏻
    I’m just over 50…

  • @Samu said:

    @McD said:

    @Samu said:
    When I'm lazy I just slap TB Barricade on a bus to which I route everything to...

    Lazy = Effective

    That’s a great tool. I the digital realm you’re not plagued with sinking into the noise floor or crashing into amplifier distortion. You just need to stay in the limits of the numeric encoding and it has massive range. Just limit those intense peaks and your covered. Is there a perfect tool to hit LUFS -14 given the fact that you don’t ever know when the peak is until post production final mix time? So just insure the limiter isn’t squashing your dynamics and making the music less interesting than it might be. Or maybe you want it to just sound as loud as possible which means compress it like crazy and crank it into the limiter…. Like a ton of metal music. Then you get really good at sidechaining that compression to keep the drums crisp in the mud.

    Sorry for the tone… I’m just bored in a hospital waiting room again. Medicare is great… you just need to make it to 65 before you die and then hope you’re not too far gone.

    No worries, I mostly use TB Barricade to protect my ears from accidental loud peaks :sunglasses:

    Hope everything will go ok for you 🙏🏻
    I’m just over 50…

    This 65 milestone is a US Healthcare issue. My wife’s bills show huge retail charges at massive discounted rates and an out of pocket max of $6,000. She’s had 4 surgeries and 2 rounds of chemo. If she was 60 we’d be bankrupt with a 20% co-pay. Most of the money goes to the insurance company with increasingly is buying hospitals to control costs and improve profit margins. This system cannot scale and will require a re-design… conservatives want to raise the 65 age limit to 70. Not the best solution. Meanwhile Doctors are retiring and smart money youth are passing on a dying industry and opting for finance and tech careers that don’t require people skills… just math and logic. Nerds are good investments.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2022

    @Iskander said:

    @wim said:
    Hi @Iskander - Gain staging can be important depending on which FX plugins you use, but it's not at all important in AUM overall until you get to the master out. Internally there will never be clipping caused by going over 0db. That's a leftover concern from analog hardware and ancient DAWs that used 16bit integer processing. With internal 32 bit processing, there's never any problem with running out of headroom.

    Where it is important is on the main output, since that's likely to get converted to a sample depth that will clip over 0db. The other place it's important is when going in to an FX that saturates or distorts with higher inputs. Most such apps have an input gain adjustment of their own.

    Sure, it's good housekeeping to keep levels generally under control, but avoiding distortion from the DAW is not the reason. And adding more processing such as limiters where not needed is doing the opposite if your goal is to keep things transparent.

    Hi @wim, thanks for your comments.

    My point is that all individual channels together in the sum in the bus or master ideally already pre-fader remain below 0dB to still have enough headroom.
    But you are right, that using limiters in each slot in not the right way.

    At least with 'loud' channels (especially with samples, loops, loud audio files etc.) you have to counteract.

    To be clear, distorting FX aside, you could have every channel peaking over 0db, then just turn the master down as much as needed to stay below 0db and it would have exactly the same result. Really.

    But, as I said, there's no harm and there are some benefits to managing levels in general. I'm not trying to talk you out of anything that makes you more comfortable with your mix. I'm just making the point that there is no audio related reason this is needed other than the ones I mentioned above. Other than those, it doesn't affect the outcome at all.

  • @wim said:
    Hi @Iskander - Gain staging can be important depending on which FX plugins you use, but it's not at all important in AUM overall until you get to the master out. Internally there will never be clipping caused by going over 0db. That's a leftover concern from analog hardware and ancient DAWs that used 16bit integer processing. With internal 32 bit processing, there's never any problem with running out of headroom.

    Where it is important is on the main output, since that's likely to get converted to a sample depth that will clip over 0db. The other place it's important is when going in to an FX that saturates or distorts with higher inputs. Most such apps have an input gain adjustment of their own.

    Sure, it's good housekeeping to keep levels generally under control, but avoiding distortion from the DAW is not the reason. And adding more processing such as limiters where not needed is doing the opposite if your goal is to keep things transparent.

    This depends on the plugins. I don't understand all the math involved but there are a few plugins that despite using 32-bit or 64-bit floating point exhibit digital distortion when their signals are over 0db due to how they do things internally. And with them you have to watch the levels going into them or adjust their internal gain to avoid distortion.

  • @suboptimal said:

    @Identor said:

    Your are quiet right. I noticed, when i had drums and bass set. A pad synth, followed with a large reverb like Alteza, set to the same -10 dB sounds way too loud, so i had to lower the gain another 20+ dB to balance it by ear with the rest.

    Is Alteza's output gain maxed by default? Drumkit's is (both individual channels and the master) and it always needs to be adjusted so it doesn't blow out your ears.

    No, Alteza's output gain is not maxed. If it was, i would set it back to about 75%.
    What i mean, is that i have the output of both (drum/bass) and (synth with lots of reverb) channels set to the same average gain level, and still the synth sounds louder.
    It might could be that the reverb synth takes up a much larger frequency spectrum, and so the ear is kept more busy with the synth than the drum/bass, likewise when you are in a room of talking people and try to hear another in a conversation.
    That way i turned down the gain output of the synth to make room for the drum/bass, alike an island is set above sea level.
    I don't want to side chain the synth against the drum, unless i want that "pumping" effect. It is alright to side chain the bass against the drum.

    @Iskander Thanks for the tip. Will try it out. That app gives lots of information.

    @wim said:

    @Identor said:
    I tried this morning to play with levels on a couple of channels.
    What i dit, is placing a gain (from AUM) at the start of the fx-chain, set the volume slider at 0 dB and then set gain to an output of about -10 dB in the level meter in the top of the screen (output meter), and also set the channel in solo-mode, so i can only meter that channel.

    You don't need to solo the channel if you don't want to. If you tap the meter you get a menu where you can set the input of the meter to any channel you like.

    Thanks! I never knew that. I never bothered to tap on that meter, unless unintended, which i likely never did, haha.

  • I say let the guy in the booth worry about the limiter and “turning it down”
    Gotta redline to headline…..

  • @espiegel123 said:
    This depends on the plugins. I don't understand all the math involved but there are a few plugins that despite using 32-bit or 64-bit floating point exhibit digital distortion when their signals are over 0db due to how they do things internally. And with them you have to watch the levels going into them or adjust their internal gain to avoid distortion.

    I covered that in an earlier post.

  • edited July 2022

    @McD said:

    @Samu said:

    @McD said:

    @Samu said:
    When I'm lazy I just slap TB Barricade on a bus to which I route everything to...

    Lazy = Effective

    That’s a great tool. I the digital realm you’re not plagued with sinking into the noise floor or crashing into amplifier distortion. You just need to stay in the limits of the numeric encoding and it has massive range. Just limit those intense peaks and your covered. Is there a perfect tool to hit LUFS -14 given the fact that you don’t ever know when the peak is until post production final mix time? So just insure the limiter isn’t squashing your dynamics and making the music less interesting than it might be. Or maybe you want it to just sound as loud as possible which means compress it like crazy and crank it into the limiter…. Like a ton of metal music. Then you get really good at sidechaining that compression to keep the drums crisp in the mud.

    Sorry for the tone… I’m just bored in a hospital waiting room again. Medicare is great… you just need to make it to 65 before you die and then hope you’re not too far gone.

    No worries, I mostly use TB Barricade to protect my ears from accidental loud peaks :sunglasses:

    Hope everything will go ok for you 🙏🏻
    I’m just over 50…

    This 65 milestone is a US Healthcare issue. My wife’s bills show huge retail charges at massive discounted rates and an out of pocket max of $6,000. She’s had 4 surgeries and 2 rounds of chemo. If she was 60 we’d be bankrupt with a 20% co-pay. Most of the money goes to the insurance company with increasingly is buying hospitals to control costs and improve profit margins. This system cannot scale and will require a re-design… conservatives want to raise the 65 age limit to 70. Not the best solution. Meanwhile Doctors are retiring and smart money youth are passing on a dying industry and opting for finance and tech careers that don’t require people skills… just math and logic. Nerds are good investments.

    As Amazon, Google, Apple and Microsoft all get deeper into machine learning/A.I., expect them to start buying up healthcare companies and being able to replace doctors and medical technician positions with software and sensor systems. I suspect the best, most informed doctors in the world will soon be easily surpassed by software and medical analysis systems (and they'll be a lot cheaper and more accurate than the people they replace).

    UPDATE: It started happening even sooner than I expected. https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/07/22/amazon-makes-moves-in-healthcare-with-plans-to-acquire-one-medical/?sh=4f62d0391fe7

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