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Realistic Flute sound design in any iOS Synth - possible?

Hi Expert Sound Designers,
I just encountered this video on Vital Desktop Synth and was wondering is it feasible to create flute sound with articulations like vibrato, flutter etc in any iOS synth? Or anyone already created any patch/preset in SynthMaster or Continua or any other synth and would not mind sharing.

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Comments

  • SWAM...

  • yep- swam flute is the best you can have on iOS for now...

  • edited June 22

    @GeoTony said:
    SWAM...

    I have all SWAM flute apps. I am looking for synth solution which offers smoother pitch bend range change than what is offered by SWAM flutes.
    If you glide between notes 3-4 semitone apart in SWAM flute you will understand what problem I am indicating, the glided notes become too "airy". I am planning to mix SWAM with synth based flute so that it provides more natural glide.
    Already achieved some betterment with Continua and Jubal flute mixing with SWAM flute in AUM, but looking for better synth flute options.

  • You could maybe play around with Modal from the free Spectrum Synthesizer Bundle. It has "Blow" and "Bow" parameters that with the right tweaking can sound flute like, especially if blended with something realistic like SWAM.

  • It depends how realistic it needs to be. If the flute sound is in the middle of a bunch of other sounds, then all you need is something that's flute-like enough. In that case, Virsyn's Tera Pro can probably get you there, with its customizable harmonics.

    Or any synth, really, with a few effects thrown in.

  • Thumb Jam an option? Always found it to be really expressive for wind type instruments

  • @Jose_Bee said:
    Thumb Jam an option? Always found it to be really expressive for wind type instruments

    Thumbjam has issue with pitch bend. Sliding makes the sound thinner (whinny)..

  • edited June 22

    This would be a nice challenge for creating a Drambo patch.
    I don't have the time to do it myself atm but since everything needed to freely model a flute is on board already (noise generator, custom envelopes, wavetables, samples, resonators, filters, comb filter etc), I'm ready to help by answering Drambo-related questions.
    I'd go for modeling the kind of flute that was shown (but not heard) in the video, I have one myself and it sounds much better than the Vital sound demoed.

  • I think Addstation could be the best candidate for this task. Switching off quantize on its screen keyboard might provide the smooth pitch bending you’re looking for. I will try to have a go at some point, but it’s pretty challenging with the velocity switching needed to reproduce the sound behaviour from different blowing strengths.

  • GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

  • @brenner13 said:
    GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

    This is that very patch through a guitar amp:

  • I love Thumbjam for things like this. The IAP for Pure Synth and Taqsim are very useable as well, imo. Still, I’m always tempted by the SWAM stuff.

  • edited June 22

    I don't think this example really sounds much like a metal concert flute. It is very nice, and has a lot of "wind"-ness to it, but it sounds more like a pan flute, IMO. It's very good as a pan flute imitation.

  • @Lady_App_titude said:
    I don't think this example really sounds much like a metal concert flute. It is very nice, and has a lot of "wind"-ness to it, but it sounds more like a pan flute, IMO. It's very good as a pan flute imitation.

    That was my thought exactly. It sounds like pan flute or a bamboo flute.

  • Using the blowpipe and breath oscillators on Lagrange, you could probably get something pretty solid. You can control the pitch bend range too.

  • edited June 22

    @brenner13 said:
    GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

    As I said I have all SWAM flutes. All the articulations here are really great. But the moment you try to have a slow glide between two notes (or advanced articulations like Khatka or Murki - please google :smile: ) then the sound becomes very airy/thinny (even though air noise is turned off). If @audiomodeling can address this issue I do not have to complement/mix SWAM flute with any other alternative

    I found one preset in SynthMaster but that's a Pan flute and that does not mix well with SWAM flute.

  • I installed the free version of Vital on my MacBook and played through the 75 presets made available. Sound wise it sounds a lot like the Korg (IAA) iWaveStation app. I hope we see an AUv3 app that implements some of these ideas for sound design. But @rs2000 advises: Drambo has the right modules to do this. I think I need to take it’s wavetable module seriously for an investigation.

    Just thinking wavetables, I added the wavetable loader to Pure Synth Platinum while the IAP’s are discounted.
    Then I located a free1700 wavetable download from Reddit and installed them into Pure Synth.

    But I think sound design is a slow process and presets from a new app or IAP package get me there without the pain of listening to raw unfiltered waveforms for hours seeking something new.

    But it’s always good to know there are science projects out there yet to be discovered when making beautiful sounds with pre-packaged goods gets old.

  • @sujoybose77 said:

    @brenner13 said:
    GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

    As I said I have all SWAM flutes. All the articulations here are really great. But the moment you try to have a slow glide between two notes (or advanced articulations like Khatka or Murki - please google :smile: ) then the sound becomes very airy/thinny (even though air noise is turned off). If @audiomodeling can address this issue I do not have to complement/mix SWAM flute with any other alternative

    I found one preset in SynthMaster but that's a Pan flute and that does not mix well with SWAM flute.

    Any synth can give you a nice sine wave sustain to beef up the SWAM flute. I don’t see a need to model the chiff; the swam already does that.

  • Realistic bends , gliss, glides, portamento are an area where pretty much any synthetic or simulated approach tends to be weak. If one wants realism, it’s usually necessary to limit one’s playing to the techniques that translate well.

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @sujoybose77 said:

    @brenner13 said:
    GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

    As I said I have all SWAM flutes. All the articulations here are really great. But the moment you try to have a slow glide between two notes (or advanced articulations like Khatka or Murki - please google :smile: ) then the sound becomes very airy/thinny (even though air noise is turned off). If @audiomodeling can address this issue I do not have to complement/mix SWAM flute with any other alternative

    I found one preset in SynthMaster but that's a Pan flute and that does not mix well with SWAM flute.

    Any synth can give you a nice sine wave sustain to beef up the SWAM flute. I don’t see a need to model the chiff; the swam already does that.

    That's exactly what I am doing now... Was wondering whether any betterment possible that can match with SWAM flute sound and hence initiated this thread.

  • edited June 22

    Well, with wavetable- or sample-based (or, therefore, granular) synths, you’re kinda - potentially, anyhow - “cheating” to begin with. So yeah, Vital for instance. Given that you can load up flute samples, or partials thereof.

    As for “pure” synthesis.. good luck. If you’re feeling frisky, maybe try additive synthesis, from scratch. FM is another path. Utilising noise would be all but a given, I imagine (based on my experiences creating “wind instrument” patches with subtractive synths..)

  • @sujoybose77 said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @sujoybose77 said:

    @brenner13 said:
    GeoShred with SWAM powered GeoFlute is a hoot. I love the GeoFlute Vowel preset with all the expression buttons pressed: finger expression, flutter, overblow, & growl. Let loose your inner Jethro Tull.

    As I said I have all SWAM flutes. All the articulations here are really great. But the moment you try to have a slow glide between two notes (or advanced articulations like Khatka or Murki - please google :smile: ) then the sound becomes very airy/thinny (even though air noise is turned off). If @audiomodeling can address this issue I do not have to complement/mix SWAM flute with any other alternative

    I found one preset in SynthMaster but that's a Pan flute and that does not mix well with SWAM flute.

    Any synth can give you a nice sine wave sustain to beef up the SWAM flute. I don’t see a need to model the chiff; the swam already does that.

    That's exactly what I am doing now... Was wondering whether any betterment possible that can match with SWAM flute sound and hence initiated this thread.

    Are you already using all supported modulations in SWAM Flute?

  • I just tried this one. I could not find a pitch bend setting in the AU version. There is a pb setting in the IAA version that allows it to match the swam pitch bends (meends) very well though. Another problem is that when using Velocity kb to play both apps simultaneously, they speak in different octaves. This seems solvable though I haven’t tried yet. It may take Rozeta scaler in AUM to make the octaves match.

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It may take Rozeta scaler in AUM to make the octaves match.

    AUM also has a control for transposing the incoming MIDI up to +/- 127 semitones.
    I wish someone would make a synth that accepts negative MIDI notes for the benefit of
    sensitive animals.

    Rozeta is good for +/- 24 semitones (+/- 2 octaves).

    Rozeta Scaler is still required to force notes into a shift of scale/mode or changing the transposition interval during a live performance easily over AUM's capabilities.

  • @McD said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It may take Rozeta scaler in AUM to make the octaves match.

    AUM also has a control for transposing the incoming MIDI up to +/- 127 semitones.
    I wish someone would make a synth that accepts negative MIDI notes for the benefit of
    sensitive animals.

    Rozeta is good for +/- 24 semitones (+/- 2 octaves).

    Rozeta Scaler is still required to force notes into a shift of scale/mode or changing the transposition interval during a live performance easily over AUM's capabilities.

    Thanks mucho, very good to know.

  • @sujoybose77 said:
    Hi Expert Sound Designers,
    I just encountered this video on Vital Desktop Synth and was wondering is it feasible to create flute sound with articulations like vibrato, flutter etc in any iOS synth? Or anyone already created any patch/preset in SynthMaster or Continua or any other synth and would not mind sharing.

    Just came hear to say I have a vital playlist. 284 videos. I haven’t updated it for a few months, though:

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @McD said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It may take Rozeta scaler in AUM to make the octaves match.

    AUM also has a control for transposing the incoming MIDI up to +/- 127 semitones.
    I wish someone would make a synth that accepts negative MIDI notes for the benefit of
    sensitive animals.

    Rozeta is good for +/- 24 semitones (+/- 2 octaves).

    Rozeta Scaler is still required to force notes into a shift of scale/mode or changing the transposition interval during a live performance easily over AUM's capabilities.

    Thanks mucho, very good to know.

    Could not see the option in AUM; got impatient and used Rozeta Scaler. Be advised that this does not work well. Rozeta introduces many errors when you play too much meend and ornamentation.

  • @sujoybose77

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @McD said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    It may take Rozeta scaler in AUM to make the octaves match.

    AUM also has a control for transposing the incoming MIDI up to +/- 127 semitones.
    I wish someone would make a synth that accepts negative MIDI notes for the benefit of
    sensitive animals.

    Rozeta is good for +/- 24 semitones (+/- 2 octaves).

    Rozeta Scaler is still required to force notes into a shift of scale/mode or changing the transposition interval during a live performance easily over AUM's capabilities.

    Thanks mucho, very good to know.

    Could not see the option in AUM; got impatient and used Rozeta Scaler. Be advised that this does not work well. Rozeta introduces many errors when you play too much meend and ornamentation.

    Turns out the swam patch was an octave down; not Jubal’ s fault. Resetting that, they play together and blend very well. Still, it sounds like two flutes playing in unison. The lesson is: You really don’t want a flute model with an attack to layer with swam. It will be necessary to use another fx app to slow the attack transient for Jubal to make it blend better.

    Or run everything through a cranked guitar amp and then none of this matters at all.

  • @johnfromberkeley said:
    Just came hear to say I have a vital playlist. 284 videos. I haven’t updated it for a few months, though:

    How far down the rabbit hole did you go, @johnfromberkeley? Did you focus on adding videos or have you watched the bulk of them?

    Is there any rumors about Vital or Serum getting a port to IOS?

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