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Drambo Mute Switching Issue
Hi everyone, my first post here!
Please can someone help me?
I am stuck in Drambo and cannot solve my problem!
I am trying to create something fairly simple, to control the in-line muting of a track (not using the MUTE on the MAIN track).
I need:
MUTE TOGGLE/PUNCH IN/PUNCH OUT
Basically, it should be controlled by 3 pads on my external MIDI keyboard (can only send normal notes on/note off).
Key 1 should mute/unmute (toggle on each keypress)
Key 2 should unmute momentarily (when key is held)
Key 3 should mute momentarily (when key is held)
Key 2 and Key3 MUST work as intended all of the time, regardless of the state of Key 1. This is the part that is causing me problems.
I can get it all to work beautifully using pads that send out CC's, but I need to move this function to another controller that only sends note on/note off from the pads.
Thanks in advance for any help!!!
PS Apologies if this is posted in wrong place
Comments
Are you running Drambo stand-alone, or as AUv3 in a host?
Can you show how you did it with pads that send CCs? Presumably the pads send value 127 on press, zero on release?
Your problem may be that Note On and Note Off are different MIDI messages, while the CCs are the same message with different values. My solution would be a StreamByter script outside of Drambo, but that's my solution for a lot of MIDI problems.
It's definitely possible inside Drambowithout any external tricks, I've just tried.
What controls are you mapping the MIDI messages to?
Running Drambo standalone.
Very simple with pads and CC's.
In Novation Components (mapping software for Launchpad):
First I programmed 3 pads, all sending CC24.
Pad 1: CC24, On value: 0, Off Value: 127, TOGGLE
Pad 2: CC24, On value: 127, Off Value: 0, Momentary
Pad 3: CC24, On value: 0, Off Value: 127, Momentary
Then in Drambo:
A 'SWITCH BUTTON' connected to the Index of a 'SWITCH N-1'
The SWITCH BUTTON is midi-mapped to CC24, Button Momentary, 0-100%
The '1' is connected to allow audio thru.
The '2' is not connected to anything.
This works perfectly.
However, I need now to get the same funtionality, using 3 pads which can only send Note on/Note off (momentary) messages.
@Uncledave, appreciated but I'm trying to use only Drambo for this!
@rs2000, would you be able to show me how please?
Thanks for helping!
Sure, I'll send you my patch later.
@rs2000 Thanks in advance
Ha ha i know you're probably busy, but not knowing how to do this is infuriating! Tried so many combinations of modules already.
Drambo is amazing. I've made something quite special with it, I'll post details and all relevant files once it's a little more polished.
@LeonS
Here's the project. Note that the MIDI mapping is important too.
Omg thank you so much!
Will test it immediately and let you know how I got on...
Ahh, thanks for helping, that's not quite right though. I appreciate you going out of your way to try and help anyway.
The trouble with that is, the 'MUTE' and 'SOLO' buttons only work depending on the state of the 'TOGGLE' button, e.g you can only press MUTE if TOGGLE is on, and you can only press SOLO if TOGGLE is OFF.
When I map it using it one CC on 3 pads, it works in a better way - you can press MUTE or SOLO anytime, and they always work as intended, regardless of the state of TOGGLE.
It's a small difference but it's much more fluid and musical, I can stutter the beat by using 'SOLO' without having to press TOGGLE first.
I honestly think it's not possible in Drambo yet without using CC's.
I'm hoping it will be added to MIDI mapping:
Many MIDI controls > One Drambo control.
With variable Input and Output ranges for each individual mapping.
It would open up many possiblities for better control of Drambo.
I've emailed Novation and asked for better control of custom mapping of the LaunchKey Mini MK3, you never know, they're pretty good with updates!
Thanks again!
@LeonS I suspect it's just a matter of logic (ANDs and ORs) to make the Mute and Solo inputs override the Toggle state. @rs2000 should be able to fix it in a jiffy.
@LeonS It does work, please check the MIDI mapping details in my project.
Both Mute and Solo work here and they override the toggle button.
PS: I don't think you really need to use capitals in your thread title 😉
@rs2000 Apologies for the capitals; I very rarely post online and am not too clued in on etiquette. Thanks for letting me know!
It's possible I'm misunderstanding (and my Drambo knowledge is quite limited), however it's not working here as expected. I will try and explain in more detail, I really want to get this to work, especially if it's just me misunderstanding.
The file you posted, Mute and Solo both do work, and they do overide the toggle button as you say - but only when the Toggle button is in one or the other position.
This seems to be how they work:
Mute works, only when the Toggle is allowing audio through.
Solo works, only when the Toggle is stopping the audio.
I need Mute and Solo to work, and take over, at anytime no matter what the Toggle is set to.
Sorry, it's not easy to explain, I should probably make a video - but when I had it mapped to my Launchpad (which sends CC's and you can set pads to toggle/momentary etc), it works in slightly different way. Mute and Solo both work, at any time, irrespective of whether Toggle is allowing audio through or not.
There is a difference, it often means one less press of a pad. For example (with my old system of CC's) say if my track is playing (ie Toggle is letting audio through), I can immediately press Solo and chop (punch in) the audio. With it mapped to notes, I have to press Toggle once first (to stop the audio) before the Solo button works.
Does it make sense?
I really appreciate the help. Drambo is the best. It's literally changed my life. I'm building a custom Groovebox using a Launchpad Mini MK3, LaunchKey Mini MK3, LaunchControl XL, and a Circuit Tracks. Everything is mapped everywhere and it's crazy.
I will post all the files and templates with explanations if it will help anyone out.
@uncledave I've been trying many different combinations of Logic and Maths modules (admittedly mostly at random) but to no avail!
@rs2000 I've filmed a video to show what I mean. I'm just uploading it to YouTube.
@LeonS Could you describe what exactly Mute is supposed to do when the audio is muted? And what Solo is meant to do when the audio is not muted? That is what we probably don't understand.
OK, I reread your description of the CC24 setup. When you press Mute, it mutes audio while you hold it, and always unmutes when you release. When you press Solo, it allows the audio, and always mutes on release. This may leave the mute state inconsistent with the state of the Toggle pad on the LaunchPad, but you don't care about that. Is this approximately correct?
So, you need a flip-flop with a toggle input, and two other inputs that force Set followed by Reset, and Reset followed by Set.
By the way, as the Original Poster, you can change the title. Something more meaningful than "stuck" might be helpful.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ifFKHPTkyMg
@uncledave Yes, I think that's it. The great thing about the way the Launchpad works is that the mute state inconsistency is taken care of, the Launchpad groups pads together that share a CC and they change colour to reflect the state correctly.
But I don't really care about that, because the Launchkey doesn't latch the pad lights.
Have a look at the video I posted if possible, I show the 'old way' and the 'new way' and why it's slightly different. It should make more sense than my ramblings on here.
Thanks for the heads up about the title, will do.
Oh, you want the Mute and Solo buttons to toggle the toggle button itself!
I get what you have in mind now. Thanks for posting the video.
@rs2000 Yes, thats a better way of describing it than I was managing 🤪
I can live without it, though I'm curious if it's actually possible at all as it would be a better solution.
You know, what I think Drambo needs urgently is the module help to be more detailed. Some are missing, and some don't describe every function of the module.
Also a 'cook book' with example problems, and step-by-step solutions might be good as well.
That said, I've really been enjoying working stuff out, coming up with solutions to make my Drambo Groovebox better. Drambo is rewarding on so many levels!
So here's a project that does it.
It's quite complicated and there might be a simpler solution but I'll leave that to another creative mind.
It's on track 4 and the MIDI notes are mapped as follows:
Note #54: Toggle
Note #56: Solo
Note #58: Mute
Some MIDI mappings use inverted value ranges, make sure you're applying these as well when using in your own project.
Also remember that MIDI mappings are saved on project level, hence projects are the only way to share them.
I really appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into that, so thank you! I almost don’t want to say…that’s still not working for me though
I mapped the 3 notes to all 6 places, taking note of the 100-0% for the Unsolo trig and the Unmute trig. It’s still not working as it should.
Have you got a controller you can map and set individual pads or keys to Toggle or Momentary? (And set individual On and Off values?)
If so, set your controller like this:
1st pad: (TOGGLE)
Toggle
CC24
On value 0
Off value 127
Channel 1
2nd pad: (PUNCH OUT)
Momentary
CC24
On value 127
Off value 0
Channel 1
3rd pad: (PUNCH IN)
Momentary
CC24
On value 0
Off value 127
Channel 1
And load up the Drambo project I’ve posted here (or you can build it, it’s only 3 modules: Oscillator, Switch Button, Switch N-1, connect the Oscillator to the top input of the N-1, connect the index to the Switch Button. Then MIDI map any one of the 3 pads to the Switch Button. Set it to ‘Button Momentary’ or ‘Continuous Absolute’, they both work.
When you press the pads (the 1st is Toggle, the 2nd is Punch Out, the 3rd is Punch In), notice how they each work at anytime no matter what’s been pressed before.
Anyway, I really do appreciate you (and uncledave) taking the time to help me, no matter of the end result. I’m still loving Drambo and I’m on the Drambo train… can’t wait to see what the future holds for it, and thanks to giku, you, and everyone else who’s making Drambo (and the supporting community) so great!
here's another approach. see if it does what you want @LeonS.
@bangzero Thank you! That's insanely clever, and well above my (current) level of Drambo understanding.
One thing I did notice, that jamming with the buttons, there is a slight but noticeable lag between pressing the buttons and it responding.
I'm wondering if there's any way to avoid that?
I mostly use the Solo button to perform fast chops of the Master Track, so the lag isn't ideal in that situation.
Perhaps it's going to be a choice between having to press an extra pad (using the method rs2000 kindly posted) - which I'm actually getting used to now - and having no extra press but having a tiny lag.
Amazing that it was actually possible, although there's no way I would have worked that out myself
If Novation just got of their lazy asses and updated the LaunchKey Mini MK3 so its pads have the same customizability as the LaunchPad Mini MK3 (I'm half joking, I do love Novation).
Also/or maybe if giku one day could add multiple different MIDI messages to be sent to one knob/button etc, it would be possible and easy with only 3 modules and no lag.
Anyway I appreciate everyone's input, I'm learning a ton with all your help, so thank you.
@LeonS You'll have to map all 8 destinations. Don't forget the amps with 0-50 and 50-0 range.
Yes I've been using a MIDI keyboard because my Launchpad pad controllers can only send MIDI notes.
@LeonS
Hiya 👋🏾
"Also/or maybe if giku one day could add multiple different MIDI messages to be sent to one knob/button etc, it would be possible and easy with only 3 modules and no lag."
You can definitely map two cc messages or midi notes to one knob
or button and you can use one cc or midi note and map that to multiple destinations.
Nice work.
not seeing that here. do you get lag with the little test project? do you see lag when the scale button animates?
howso? midi learn replaces existing mappings, right?
No lag here either but a resource hungry project will certainly add noticeable lag at some point.
Yes.
@bangzero
I do it all the time.
Try switching off “Takeover mode (absolute CC)” in Settings.
Some of my midi mappings are extensive and
I always have to double check if I have two cc’s on one knob etc.
It doesn’t show in the Midi learn overlay but once Midi learn is switch off it’s there.
Then it maybe a fortunate bug.
As mentioned in my earlier comment I do it all the time.
Really?
Can you edit the two mappings on the same knob?
Ha ha if thats true then please dont fix the bug! I dont have takeover mode enabled but I cant seem to make that happen, I wish I could as that would solve so many problems for me.
If giku is reading this can we please have multiple both ways mapping, and variable Input AND Output ranges for every mapped control, would make for some insane mappings, and also help me get rid of excess modules. I know its possible to do using MIDI to CV/Mozaic etc but I want to do it using native MIDI mapping as its neater and more manageable.
I can feel the lag when jamming. Only using the little project, on ipad 9th. I could be wrong because i dont fully understand the project, but if you increase the delay on the Feedback modules, you can notice it and it only goes down to 10ms minimum.
Surely there must be some delay when sending stuff back the wrong way right to left? My understanding is limited admittedly.
I can definitely feel it tho, 10ms is quite big when doing very fast punch ins. I notice it most when swapping from the simple CC method I outlined above to that method, then its really obvious.
Anyone have a controller they can map CCs and choose toggle or momentary (on the controller itself) and set on and off values independently? Maybe can test the little project I posted above and compare.
I am quite sensitive to latency tho, I play the drums and get annoyed even with 7-10ms of latency. Its funny because 15-20 years ago I probably wouldn't have noticed, my ears and sense of timing have improved over the years (from absolutely rubbish to just rhythmically challenged ;D )
Also an easy way of checking which mappings are which mapped where as it will get complicated!