Bass Amp auv3

Ailerom

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

Branching out? I like it, muchas gracias. Now if only I knew how to do the IAP.

And weirder, there is no mention of an IAP on the app store.

Ailerom

@espiegel123 said:
@Ailerom : there is no standardization with amp sims in terms of how they respond to different signal levels. I don’t find it surprising. I think people have difficulty getting away from analog gain-stage conventional wisdom,

With each amp sim, it is worth spending time to see how they respond to different signal levels.

The message metering in AUM is fine. As long as your input level to the iPad never ever exceeds 0db, you can do all the input level adjustments on the iPad.

In a way Nembrini is being faithful to how analog amps and pre-amps work. They can be very sensitive to input levels…which is why many use clean boost pedals in front of some amps … because some amps sound very different driven by high input levels.

I understand with hardware but with digital, it just seems that where things like clipping are so well defined it would make sense to have a generally agreed upon input standard. I'm sure I miss the full concept though.

I don't use AUM at all for recording. I treat it like a playground for musical toys.

espiegel123

@Ailerom said:

@espiegel123 said:
@Ailerom : there is no standardization with amp sims in terms of how they respond to different signal levels. I don’t find it surprising. I think people have difficulty getting away from analog gain-stage conventional wisdom,

With each amp sim, it is worth spending time to see how they respond to different signal levels.

The message metering in AUM is fine. As long as your input level to the iPad never ever exceeds 0db, you can do all the input level adjustments on the iPad.

In a way Nembrini is being faithful to how analog amps and pre-amps work. They can be very sensitive to input levels…which is why many use clean boost pedals in front of some amps … because some amps sound very different driven by high input levels.

I understand with hardware but with digital, it just seems that where things like clipping are so well defined it would make sense to have a generally agreed upon input standard. I'm sure I miss the full concept though.

I don't use AUM at all for recording. I treat it like a playground for musical toys.

A good amp sim simulates an amps response. Amps have a non-linear response to the input signal and color the signal. How the signal gets colored is influenced by a number of factors including incoming signal level. So, if you send it a quiet signal it will respond differently than to a loud one. Some amp sims are designed so that a loud input will distort more and differently than a quite input.

If the amp sims respond to quiet and loud signals the same, they wouldn't be good amps sims. The response curve/mapping is different from sim to sim for good reason.

MadGav

@Ailerom said:

@espiegel123 said:
@Ailerom : different amp sims have different algorithms and may treat input levels differently. You need to experiment with each to see. For example, Nembrini amps get driven to distortion at lower input levels than THU, so knowing that I will always bring down the input level in Nembrini and compensate by turning up the output.

My raw input level before the amp sims leaves plenty of headroom. There is no reason to try to maximize level into the iPad: you want to eliminate any possibility of your loudest playing getting near 0.

You may want to play with a compressor before sending to the amp sim if you are looking for a totally clean sound. The Nembrini can do it but the process may be counterintuitive.

Fwiw, a lot of great players in the studio use only compression and eq.

That's a bit odd. I would have thought a digital signal input would be more of a standardised thing. When experimenting with input are you just talking about input monitoring to keep levels around -12 or for clarity. Part of my issue may be that I have been going in around -6 even on desktop and don't often use a clean sound so possibly don't pick up on the overdriven plugin inputs. I suppose if there is no clipping I can just turn the level down pre plugin?

Maybe one day I'll remember or get it reprogrammed that noise level is less important now that peaking. Basically the opposite of how I started recording. Damn this old brain.

The compressor pre amp sim was the problem in this case. Even though it wasn't outputting a clipping signal it was too high for everything. So for example the level coming out of Push FX Comp must have been way above -6 so it's overdriving the input. Same with everything else I tried to a lesser degree. I have made some adjustments and now it's cleaned things up.

I probably should start going through every plugin and making sure it is not above -6 at the output before hitting the next plugin. Is -6 about right?

Multiple standards, and that’s just in broadcast! 0dBu is -18dBFS in Europe, -20 USA and peak levels are a different amount above… it’s a mess!

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-what-are-reference-levels-digital-audio-systems?amp

Still makes an assumption of around -18 reasonable…

supadom

@Ailerom said:

@espiegel123 said:
@Ailerom : there is no standardization with amp sims in terms of how they respond to different signal levels. I don’t find it surprising. I think people have difficulty getting away from analog gain-stage conventional wisdom,

With each amp sim, it is worth spending time to see how they respond to different signal levels.

The message metering in AUM is fine. As long as your input level to the iPad never ever exceeds 0db, you can do all the input level adjustments on the iPad.

In a way Nembrini is being faithful to how analog amps and pre-amps work. They can be very sensitive to input levels…which is why many use clean boost pedals in front of some amps … because some amps sound very different driven by high input levels.

I understand with hardware but with digital, it just seems that where things like clipping are so well defined it would make sense to have a generally agreed upon input standard. I'm sure I miss the full concept though.

I don't use AUM at all for recording. I treat it like a playground for musical toys.

To me, once a decent audio interface with good pre amps is used there isn’t such a big difference between the old analog and the new digital ways of capturing audio. I’d mostly say: learn your gear and use your ears.

JoyceRoadStudios

@Ailerom said:

@JoyceRoadStudios said:
For reference, my strat dry into aum with nothing loaded shows around -28db input level. So I always need to raise that with overdrive and master output. My les Paul shows -9db, so it’s already hot. P-Bass shows about -15db. This is just my baseline readings with nothing loaded. With those numbers there’s room to do anything. You can’t go back in time if your recorded signal was too hot. But you can certain bump it up later in post and out at no cost to you.

That is really interesting. I had no idea that was the case. How to you measure the input signal so accurately. Even in Cubase the readings are not easy to see. Is that level difference anything to do with SC vs HB or are pickups just different?

Yes the level difference I described has to do solely with different pickups having different outputs, and also the distance between the pickup and the strings. Single coils are known for being medium output and humbuckers are usually higher output. If your instrument has two pickups than their heights have to be adjusted so the output is as close to the same as possible. Otherwise in the middle position you’d hear too much of one pickup. But that’s neither here nor there.

My point is that those levels are with the interface set the same for all three instruments, and it’s the dry direct signal in AUM with nothing loaded. The disparity between pickup output is pretty large and it’s very relevant to input gain staging. Getting your dry direct input level sorted for each instrument you have is the most important first step. So once I see what my dry direct input reading is, I adjust the gain level per instrument so I can always hover around -12db. If it’s at -15db that’s fine, if you play hard and it tops out at -8db that’s also fine. You just don’t want to be in the danger zone of -6db and louder, at the input.

You keep mentioning that cubasis readings are hard to see or that my numbers are so exact. So I will state the obvious. When you’re in AUM, it shows you the output meter by default. Click on it, and switch it to “input”. That’s all there is to it. Now you can play your dry direct sound and AUM will show you your exact input reading. It’s pretty accurate. That should give you a pretty exact reading before you load anything. And if that’s showing -6db, for sure your input gain is set too hot. Turn it down on the interface, or turn down the volume knob on the bass a few notches, or adjust the input gain in the DAW if it let’s you.

Ben

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

Ailerom

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

Ben

@Ailerom said:

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

If you’re referring to an IAP, I’m not aware of one.
I just have the basic amp.

uncledave

@Ailerom said:

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

If you mean Bass Deluxe, it's in the (US) AppStore. Doesn't appear as the first search result, but it's there. It is iPad only, no iPhone version.

Ailerom

@uncledave said:

@Ailerom said:

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

If you mean Bass Deluxe, it's in the (US) AppStore. Doesn't appear as the first search result, but it's there. It is iPad only, no iPhone version.

Thanks, I found it, but there is no way I have found to buy it. Pretty sure it is an IAP.

Ailerom

@JoyceRoadStudios I have some measurements from Youlean LM (Lite ) Seeing any issues there below?

• Recorded signal is TP Max -10.6db. (A bit hot?)
• After the first insert (comp) it is TP Max -12.6db
• After THU it's TP Max -8.7db

I don't record in AUM. I'll start looking for something light (hopefully) and accurate (definitely) to throw around in Cubase for level checks. Youlean looks good and I use it on the desktop so I am pretty confident in it's quality.

Any ideas on a trusty auv3 meter system?

Ailerom

@Ben said:

@Ailerom said:

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

If you’re referring to an IAP, I’m not aware of one.
I just have the basic amp.

How is it on sale for 1.99 then. I've ogled that UI from top to bottom and can't find an unlock mechanism. There is no IAP mention on the App store either. Or have I already bought it. Confused because they used to have IAP and free downloads. Maybe there is a mix of methods now.

uncledave

@Ailerom said:

@uncledave said:

@Ailerom said:

@Ben said:

@Poppadocrock said:
Bass Deluxe $1.99

I thought this one was surprisingly good/transparent.
Blackice with the input level trick is also very good.
I really like Tonestack Pro but I’ve come to use it only when I want a heavy effect like an envelope.

But seriously. How do you buy it?

If you mean Bass Deluxe, it's in the (US) AppStore. Doesn't appear as the first search result, but it's there. It is iPad only, no iPhone version.

Thanks, I found it, but there is no way I have found to buy it. Pretty sure it is an IAP.

I don't understand. When I search for Bass Deluxe, it shows a price ($1.99). If I tap the price, I get the usual confirmation dialog. It is not an IAP. If you do not see a price, maybe you have already bought it, and just need to download. Maybe we're not talking about the same app. Here is the AppStore page I see.

Ailerom

@uncledave said:
I don't understand. When I search for Bass Deluxe, it shows a price ($1.99). If I tap the price, I get the usual confirmation dialog. It is not an IAP. If you do not see a price, maybe you have already bought it, and just need to download. Maybe we're not talking about the same app. Here is the AppStore page I see.

I think the issue is that some of there apps have an IAP but and some have outright purchase. As I have them all installed I have no way of knowing whether I paid for the full version, or have an IAP awaiting my attention. It's a bit messy, but with Bass Deluxe I must own it as it's installed and not a free with IAP product. The others I have no idea about.

tahiche

I can’t get the presets to show on Bass Deluxe. Anyone having the same problem or a solution?.

I like BlackiceBetaGamma but I feel like it’s a bit too much for cleaner stuff. Looking for a basic bass amp to warm and round things up a bit. There’s not a lot of options for bass, are there?

Ben

@tahiche. Funny, I’ve been using this app quite a bit lately and never even bothered to notice that it had presets.
Can’t get them to show either.
I just choose a cabinet and do some minimal dialing in to get a sound close to what I like.
I have BlackiceBetaGamma and Nembrini Bass Driver, ToneStack, Jamup Pro etc.
Bass Deluxe seems to be the most transparent (least expensive too) so I keep going back to it.

NoiseHorse

@Ben sold me….but I’m easy.

wim

@tahiche said:
I like BlackiceBetaGamma but I feel like it’s a bit too much for cleaner stuff. Looking for a basic bass amp to warm and round things up a bit. There’s not a lot of options for bass, are there?

I'm curious - have you tried the Nembrini Faceman with bass?

espiegel123

@tahiche said:
I can’t get the presets to show on Bass Deluxe. Anyone having the same problem or a solution?.

I like BlackiceBetaGamma but I feel like it’s a bit too much for cleaner stuff. Looking for a basic bass amp to warm and round things up a bit. There’s not a lot of options for bass, are there?

Gamma can be very dirty. I recommend exploring the settings some more. It has a lot of range.

tahiche

@wim said:

@tahiche said:
I like BlackiceBetaGamma but I feel like it’s a bit too much for cleaner stuff. Looking for a basic bass amp to warm and round things up a bit. There’s not a lot of options for bass, are there?

I'm curious - have you tried the Nembrini Faceman with bass?

Oh yes, forgot about Faceman. It does sound good on bass, thanks for the reminder!.

@espiegel123 said:
Gamma can be very dirty. I recommend exploring the settings some more. It has a lot of range.

It does have a lot of range, obvious first stop is to lower the input knob. I don’t know why Nembrini always has it too high. I don’t want distortion from amps, just crunch. Every single Nembrini app and preset is ridiculously hot.
But with Gamma I have this thing where I don’t know what’s happening. The “Mod” knob which I can’t hear, the compression is weird, the distortion that might not distort… I guess it might be a similar case to the issue I have with the Nembrini DC30 where I can’t get the reverb to work!. Something about circuit emulation where if you lower the input something else doesn’t do it’s thing. Since I don’t care about being loyal to a given circuitry or amp design these things frustrate me and I’d rather go for something more straightforward.