Which basic DAW for Mac?

kidslow

@cian said:
I just discovered that Reaper is actually pretty good at editing video.

Perhaps, but it is quite different if you want to do any professional video workflows with it, as there is no AAF support and none planned, so you have to resort to rather expensive third party solutions.

cian

@kidslow said:

@cian said:
I just discovered that Reaper is actually pretty good at editing video.

Perhaps, but it is quite different if you want to do any professional video workflows with it, as there is no AAF support and none planned, so you have to resort to rather expensive third party solutions.

I mean sure I guess. I’m just amazed that I can use my $60 DAW to quickly edit youtube and music videos. If I was doing pro stuff I’d also want color correction, titling and no doubt a bunch more. But I’m not - and it’s way faster than premiere.

kidslow

@cian said:

@kidslow said:

@cian said:
I just discovered that Reaper is actually pretty good at editing video.

Perhaps, but it is quite different if you want to do any professional video workflows with it, as there is no AAF support and none planned, so you have to resort to rather expensive third party solutions.

I mean sure I guess. I’m just amazed that I can use my $60 DAW to quickly edit youtube and music videos. If I was doing pro stuff I’d also want color correction, titling and no doubt a bunch more. But I’m not - and it’s way faster than premiere.

Sounds like it meets your needs. But you missed my point. Just sharing my experience and frustration with Reaper for video workflows. Clearly you've not done professional video. If you're doing pro stuff, you hire a professional colorist who does that work far better than you or I ever could. Well maybe not far better but far far faster.

cian

@kidslow said:

@cian said:

@kidslow said:

@cian said:
I just discovered that Reaper is actually pretty good at editing video.

Perhaps, but it is quite different if you want to do any professional video workflows with it, as there is no AAF support and none planned, so you have to resort to rather expensive third party solutions.

I mean sure I guess. I’m just amazed that I can use my $60 DAW to quickly edit youtube and music videos. If I was doing pro stuff I’d also want color correction, titling and no doubt a bunch more. But I’m not - and it’s way faster than premiere.

Sounds like it meets your needs. But you missed my point. Just sharing my experience and frustration with Reaper for video workflows.

No I got your point, it was just seriously weird as I never suggested it was good for all purposes, or that professional video editors should use it.

I'm sorry that you as a professional video guy tried to use a $60 DAW for professional video workflows for some reason that makes no sense to me.

Clearly you've not done professional video.

Did I suggest that I had? I feel there was a less passive aggressive way to put me in my place

Pynchon

One of the lesser known features of Bitwig, is that for every device in a chain, it doesn't matter if it's an instrument or an effect, it will automatically create an audio bus that you can select as the input for a new audio track.

In an empty audio track, you can select any audio or instrument track, and then you are able to select the input from any device in this chain, it doesn't matter if it's a Bitwig internal or a VST effect.

It has, by a large margin, the most powerful and easy to use audio routing options in any DAW.

By comparison, in Ableton you can only send the audio of a track to a send track, but you can't select to send audio from the middle of a rack device. And the number of send channels is also limited.

In Bitwig, you can work in the same way as when you insert an audio bus in the effect slots of AUM. But with an unlimited number of buses, which is crazy.

So for sculpting audio, making complex patches from a simple sound, by multiply the original sound with different effects applied in each chain through different states, it's a delight to work.

Other unique feature is its Micro-Pitch device, in which you can use custom scales. But also, you can use modulators to modify the tuning of each note through time. Experimenting with atonality.

https://youtu.be/iSW08E1XaI8?t=316

tja

Many thanks for this information, @Pynchon

EDIT:

Reaper also seems to support Micro-Pitch

And deep routing too, as seen here:

kidslow

@cian said:
No I got your point, it was just seriously weird as I never suggested it was good for all purposes, or that professional video editors should use it.

Perhaps I was making my comment for other people besides you, and to vent my frustrations with one aspect of Reaper that gave me particular consternation. Ever think of that? Like I said, happy it meets your needs.

Clearly you know a thing or two about passive-aggressive comments, but there was nothing passive about what I said.

tja

REAPER 6.47 is available, with the following updates:
  + Actions: improve performance with large numbers of custom actions
  + Actions: increase maximum number of custom actions/reascripts
  + Actions: improve sizing behavior of actions window with langpack-adjusted button sizes
  + CPU metering: add option (FX chain and performance meter menus) to view CPU utilization as 1.0c = one core fully utilized
  + Envelopes: do not select following envelope point when deleting via mouse click [t=262564]
  + Glue: improve handling of fades that overlap with other items [p=2519694]
  + JSFX: fix Volume Adjustment plugin smoothing the first playback block [p=2521345]
  + macOS: improve performance of bridged plug-ins
  + macOS: refresh various controls when switching to/from dark mode [p=2517137]
  + macOS: run media/anticipative FX worker threads in realtime/audio workgroup if Time Critical priority is set (may be useful for M1 Pro CPUs)
  + macOS: fix Cmd+A in metadata edit, explorer, and track manager fields
  + Markers: fix importing markers from .csv when marker names contain quotation marks [p=2524419]
  + Media explorer: add customizable toolbar
  + Media explorer: move "insert media", "auto-play", "start on bar" controls to default toolbar
  + Media explorer: actions to tempo match half-speed or double-speed act as toggles
  + Media explorer: action to show media properties will display properties for last selected item if there is no current preview media
  + Media explorer: add action to show/hide toolbar
  + Media explorer: add optional media information box
  + Media item properties: double-click always resets take volume to unity or pan to center
  + Media item properties: prevent normalize button from creating multiple windows
  + Media items: add action to calculate loudness of selected items not including FX or track settings
  + Media items: don't display render window VU meters when calculating loudness of selected items via dry run render
  + Menus/Toolbars: replace Save/Close buttons with OK/Cancel/Apply
  + Metadata: support encoding of very long/complex metadata strings in projects [p=2522469]
  + MIDI: handle splits and edge adjustments properly when MIDI items span partial measures [t=260847]
  + MIDI editor: move edit cursor on actions to navigate to previous/next note
  + MIDI editor: improve non-synchronized playback behavior when changing project tempo
  + MIDI learn: revert to pre-6.37 behavior of allowing targeting non-visible FX parameters [t=260737]
  + Notation editor: fix scrub mouse mapping [t=218135]
  + Playback: disable monitor signal fade-out on stop when preferences are configured to play FX tails on stop
  + Project bay: fix display of shell VST3 plug-ins loaded by UID16 [t=262265]
  + Razor edits: display envelope value when editing, in addition to % change [t=262983]
  + Razor edits: fix inadvertently setting envelope point shape to linear on toggle envelopes [p=2525258]
  + ReaScript: add midi_init() which allows re-initialization of single MIDI devices
  + ReaScript: improve GetMediaFileMetadata() support for long strings
  + ReaScript: MIDI_GetEvt/Note/CC/TextSysexEvt with negative event index now return false
  + ReaScript: support longer input to GetSetProjectInfo_String("RENDER_METADATA") [p=2521173]
  + Render: add checkbox to only normalize files that are too loud [t=261667]
  + Render: add menu items (under render dialog stats button) to change which render statistics are displayed
  + Render: allow trailing spaces in directory names on macOS/Linux [t=262788]
  + Render: fix reset of normalization mode/channel count when undoing certain actions (6.43 regression) [t=262585]
  + Render: preserve very long metadata when rendering [p=2524169]
  + Resampling: fix incorrect processing at end of item in r8brain free mode [t=262303]
  + Theme: improve display of 4 digit track numbers when using default theme
  + Undo: fix undo of markers edited in ripple all and various nudge actions [t=262028]
  + Video: add project_timeoffs variable
  + Video: fix incorrect restart of peaks building when editing project during peaks build [t=262058]
  + Video: improve text overlay preset (can also display timecode, add fit background to text parameter, change defaults)
  + Volume readouts: better distinguish between values very close to 0dB and 0dB exactly
  + WALTER: add trackidx (0 is master, 1 is first track, <0 is unknown/invalid), ntracks (<0 if invalid) for track contexts
  + Windows: fix signing of 32-bit executables and include git revision in win32 build
  + Windows: prevent opening multiple "set media item playback rate" dialogs
  + Windows: output usage help to stdout (if available) as well as displaying in a popup window

tja

The regular Ableton Live prices are:

Intro: 79 Euro
Standard: 349 Euro
Suite: 599 Euro

After getting my Lite license from Koala, I can upgrade instead:

Intro: NA
Standard: 299 Euro (minus 50 Euro)
Suite: 529 Euro (minus 70 Euro)

So, starting with Lite is a Good Thing :-)

Still, I lean towards Bitwig ... I like it very much.

The 99 Euro 16-track version sadly is only 16-bit, and the only other option is already 399 Euro.
I will try with bounces ...

I also like FL Studio, but Bitwig gels better.

I should just stay at Live Lite and Bitwig 8-track and concentrate on Reaper

Telefunky

@tja said: ... The 99 Euro 16-track version sadly is only 16-bit, and the only other option is already 399 Euro.

On the purchase page (Compare Versions) there is no difference in audio formats, both feature 16, 24, 32 bit import and export.
(tap the More above Instruments category)

tja

@Telefunky said:

@tja said: ... The 99 Euro 16-track version sadly is only 16-bit, and the only other option is already 399 Euro.

On the purchase page (Compare Versions) there is no difference in audio formats, both feature 16, 24, 32 bit import and export.
(tap the More above Instruments category)

Oh.
Interesting.

I got the 16-bit information here:

https://www.bitwig.com/16-track/

That contradicts the information from https://www.bitwig.com/feature-list/

I will contact Bitwig about this...

Many thanks!!!

Pynchon

By the way, for those interested in purchasing Bitwig, it's possible to get a 10% discount. Various affiliated Youtubers are offering a coupon, among them Alckemy Neuro.

I don't post links, because I'm contrary to post affiliated links. And in this way, everyone can investigate and choose her/his favorite content creator to use the promotion, helping the channel.

So the full version will cost 360 euros, instead of 400.

tja

@Pynchon said:
By the way, for those interested in purchasing Bitwig, it's possible to get a 10% discount. Various affiliated Youtubers are offering a coupon, among them Alckemy Neuro.

I don't post links, because I'm contrary to post affiliated links. And in this way, everyone can investigate and choose her/his favorite content creator to use the promotion, helping the channel.

So the full version will cost 360 euros, instead of 400.

Many thanks!

tja

I got reply from Bitwig:

The comparison page is correct and the dedicated 16-track page is old.

So, 16/24/32 bit are supported on 16-track!
They will update the webpage.

I will buy this, after checking out discounts 😅🤗

EDIT: Also, updating from 8- to 16-track costs 79 euro!
Great! 🤗

krassmann

I just bought Bitwig second hand. The seller needs to send an email to the Bitwig support to transfer the license. I bought it for 250 bucks with an update plan until December 22. I think that was quite a good deal. There are offers on knobcloud or kvraudio.

Pynchon

Until 27th February, it's possible to update the Bitwig 8 track to the full version, for only $259, using the code FLASH-FEB22

https://reddit.com/r/AudioProductionDeals/comments/t0lwi0/bitwig_bitwig_studio_upgrade_from_8track_259/

Great deal, taking into account that it's possible to get the 8 track version for free via the Future Music promotion, and then updating from here.

And much cheaper that the 300 euros that I paid in the last Christmas sale.

tja

@Pynchon said:
Until 27th February, it's possible to update the Bitwig 8 track to the full version, for only $259, using the code FLASH-FEB22

https://reddit.com/r/AudioProductionDeals/comments/t0lwi0/bitwig_bitwig_studio_upgrade_from_8track_259/

Great deal, taking into account that it's possible to get the 8 track version for free via the Future Music promotion, and then updating from here.

And much cheaper that the 300 euros that I paid in the last Christmas sale.

Thanks, but I already upgraded on discount to the 16-track version and plan to stay there, for quite some time.

FloRi89

@tja said:

@FloRi89 said:
I decided to get Studio One. You can buy that quite cheap second hand. Don’t have an regrets, I love everything about it.

That's the so called industrie standard?

I read that for non-industrie people, other DAWs may be more fitting ...

For now I have enough to check out and learn, with Reaper, trials of FL Studio, Bitwig and Ableton Live and the Ableton Live Intro.

Sorry pretty late to this, I somehow didn't get the notification. No S1 surely isn't the industry standard, that would be Pro Tools, though we should be careful with that, because it depends a lot on what genre we are talking about. In theory you can make any type of music in any DAW but it's certainly noticeable that there are certain trends:

• Electronic music producers seem to tend to Ableton or BitWig
• Recording studios seem to prefer ProTools or Reaper
• Beatmakers seem to tend to FL Studio
• Composers are mostly using Cubase

S1 doesn't have such a clear cut target group, it's more "Studio One enjoyers" then anything else. I initially got it because it's pretty cheap used, but honestly I started to love it shortly after. It's a fantastic DAW, but of course not without quirks.