bs-16i included sounds are good!

tsamba

Picked this old venerable app up today to try out some soundfonts. Didn't expect there to this many included sounds and of good quality. Great sound module!

tja

The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

tsamba

Whoa, extensive poll! Yeah, I wouldn't say the piano is as realistic as some others, but it's serviceable, and there's like 100-200 more sounds included. I was just surprised because I didn't even know the app was going to have included sounds. I picked it up to load sounds into it. And I've been looking for a basic sound module with a wide variety of sounds on iOS. This is it!

mjcouche

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

HotStrange

I absolutely love that app. It sounds great, has a nice set of features, and a good interface. That and Sequenceism have gotten me into sound fonts lately.

tja

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

mjcouche

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

HotStrange

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

Did you do it all via iPad? I don’t have a laptop but would love to have the salamander piano.

yowza

I think salamander and many others are here. https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

McD

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

BS-16i loaded with the soundfonts4u free Salamander can compete well with the more expensive options. It's pretty close to the Salamander inside Auria Pro which rated just below Ravenscroft.

Since BS-16i came out a couple more Soundfonts apps have been released that also simply the use and exspense of Soundfonts in an AUv3 package. Soundfonts are pretty dated and tend to be overkill since they are often really large collections of instruments in the fashion of the old General MIDI packages. But there's no reason a sound font can't be a smaller collection of a few high quality pianos like the soundfonts4u offerings.

Pure Piano is an amazing product with some really great embedded FX options and a clever user interface. It gives Ravenscroft a run for the finish in the blind testing. @LinearLineman seems to use it more often that any other piano app these days... It's "reverse" mode puts in into a whole new category for AUv3 piano apps.

gregsmith

I often throw bs-16 into a track when I want something that sounds like an instrument rather than a synth. Doesn’t have to sound realistic for my music as I usually whack a loads of effects over it anyway.

tsamba

@McD said:

Since BS-16i came out a couple more Soundfonts apps have been released that also simply the use and exspense of Soundfonts in an AUv3 package. Soundfonts are pretty dated and tend to be overkill since they are often really large collections of instruments in the fashion of the old General MIDI packages. But there's no reason a sound font can't be a smaller collection of a few high quality pianos like the soundfonts4u offerings.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here?

mjcouche

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

Did you do it all via iPad? I don’t have a laptop but would love to have the salamander piano.

Actually, did it on my phone. Download the zip file and use “Open In” functionality to open in bs-16i

tsamba

Looking at SoundFonts by B-Ray and also maybe AudioLayer now too to compare for similar functionality. Still getting my footing on iOS and there are so many apps to choose from, many with similar functionality. Tough to tell what does what.

McD

@tsamba said:

@McD said:

Since BS-16i came out a couple more Soundfonts apps have been released that also simply the use and exspense of Soundfonts in an AUv3 package. Soundfonts are pretty dated and tend to be overkill since they are often really large collections of instruments in the fashion of the old General MIDI packages. But there's no reason a sound font can't be a smaller collection of a few high quality pianos like the soundfonts4u offerings.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here?

Sure. It looks like the cost of this one is at parity ($8) with BS-16i with fewer features. It's very focused on being a simple sound module for SF2 filesets:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/soundfonts/id1453325077

This ($10) DAW has build-in support for SF2/SFZ collections and eve sells a couple internal packages as I recall:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-evolution-mobile-studio/id1094758623

I didn't invest in this one ($10):

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/soundfont-pro/id764436386

I think SynthMaster One or 2 has SF2 or SFZ support. There are probably more...

tja

@McD said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

BS-16i loaded with the soundfonts4u free Salamander can compete well with the more expensive options. It's pretty close to the Salamander inside Auria Pro which rated just below Ravenscroft.

I will try this, as my earlier experiments may have used the wrong files - not sure anymore.

But anyways, this topic is about the sounds that come with bs-16i, not about those that could be added.

Pure Piano is an amazing product with some really great embedded FX options and a clever user interface. It gives Ravenscroft a run for the finish in the blind testing. @LinearLineman seems to use it more often that any other piano app these days... It's "reverse" mode puts in into a whole new category for AUv3 piano apps.

I will have a look at Pure Piano, thanks!

In our old Piano Worldcup, Salamander in Auria Pro came on first place, BeatHawk Acoustic Grand on second place and both Ravenscroft Classic and Collossus Concert Grand on place three:

uncledave

@tsamba said:
Looking at SoundFonts by B-Ray and also maybe AudioLayer now too to compare for similar functionality. Still getting my footing on iOS and there are so many apps to choose from, many with similar functionality. Tough to tell what does what.

I use SoundFonts all the time. I have several of the Soundfonts4u files, which are very nice, and some others I found. The SoundFonts app handles sf2 files, which are widely available. I load multiple AUv3 instances in Audiobus or AUM, and drive them with keyboards or ZOA.

AudioLayer lets you build your own configuration, but it does not use sf2 files. I believe it may be able to accept data from sfz files, but with some manual modifications; search this site for lots of discussion.

HotStrange

@mjcouche said:

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

Did you do it all via iPad? I don’t have a laptop but would love to have the salamander piano.

Actually, did it on my phone. Download the zip file and use “Open In” functionality to open in bs-16i

Ahah! I didn’t even consider the “open in” option. Big thanks! Have you tried Pure Piano? I’m also considering it.

mjcouche

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

Did you do it all via iPad? I don’t have a laptop but would love to have the salamander piano.

Actually, did it on my phone. Download the zip file and use “Open In” functionality to open in bs-16i

Ahah! I didn’t even consider the “open in” option. Big thanks! Have you tried Pure Piano? I’m also considering it.

Yes also own pure piano. Cool concept, easy to dial in a great sound. Haven’t done too much diving. Typically I reach for RC275 or the BeatHawk Acoustic Grand if I need a piano quickly. If you like to keep things small (for storage) BeatHawk is the best option because there are so many other great sounds. @LinearLineman will give you the best run down on pianos - he uses many of them extensively.

swfarrington

BS-16i bit

I used BS-16i quite a bit for some basic acoustic sounds including the piano for a while - it's fine, not great but not terrible. I've added other soundfonts and it's a useful tool. But now some of the audio modelled instruments are available, that has reduced my usage of BS-16i.

Random diversion into pianos

Ravenscroft and Pure Piano are both competent. Definitely not perfect, but when paired with a piano keybed (rather than a plastic midi controller) they do a pretty good job. I did a comparison (on YT) using my piano as an input device to see how they actually interpreted my own performance. Once pianotec arrives I'll revisit that video and may add in Beathawk et al too

HotStrange

@mjcouche said:

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@HotStrange said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:

@mjcouche said:

@tja said:
The Piano did not fare well compared to others:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27341/piano-world-cup-the-statistics

…Except for the fact that you can download the free salamander sound font and bs16i is a great way to host it AUv3

This never worked for me....
Did you try and succeed?

This Salamander only worked well in Auria Pro for me. In bs-16i, I seem to remember problems with the memory or crashes with the Salamander... cannot remember the details.

Also, that was not the point - I just wanted to point out that the standard instruments of bs-16i are not such good, even if versatile.

Yes this is the main way I have used Salamander - inside bs-16i. I followed the instructions and it works fine. If you have issues I would recommend using the “light” sound font that is just the Salamander, not the big 1GB library.

Did you do it all via iPad? I don’t have a laptop but would love to have the salamander piano.

Actually, did it on my phone. Download the zip file and use “Open In” functionality to open in bs-16i

Ahah! I didn’t even consider the “open in” option. Big thanks! Have you tried Pure Piano? I’m also considering it.

Yes also own pure piano. Cool concept, easy to dial in a great sound. Haven’t done too much diving. Typically I reach for RC275 or the BeatHawk Acoustic Grand if I need a piano quickly. If you like to keep things small (for storage) BeatHawk is the best option because there are so many other great sounds. @LinearLineman will give you the best run down on pianos - he uses many of them extensively.

Thanks a ton for this answer! And he did indeed give me quite a good run down. I have Geoshred and Thumbjam for most realistic sounds so I’m more so looking for something dedicated to one thing. It’s a difficult choice but for whatever reason, Pure Piano just seems to sound better to my ears.

tja

@swfarrington said:
BS-16i bit

I used BS-16i quite a bit for some basic acoustic sounds including the piano for a while - it's fine, not great but not terrible. I've added other soundfonts and it's a useful tool. But now some of the audio modelled instruments are available, that has reduced my usage of BS-16i.

Random diversion into pianos

Ravenscroft and Pure Piano are both competent. Definitely not perfect, but when paired with a piano keybed (rather than a plastic midi controller) they do a pretty good job. I did a comparison (on YT) using my piano as an input device to see how they actually interpreted my own performance. Once pianotec arrives I'll revisit that video and may add in Beathawk et al too

I don't normally ask for YouTube links, but would like to watch the older and the coming video 😅🤗

swfarrington

@tja said:

I don't normally ask for YouTube links, but would like to watch the older and the coming video 😅🤗

Here's the comparison video I did

My most recent video was a bit of improv with Ravenscroft which came out OK too

tja

Thanks a bunch, @swfarrington

tja

Very interesting.

I was tempted to buy Pure Piano, but in your examples, I preferred Ravenscroft.

Pure Piano often sounded dampened to me.

tsamba

@tja said:
Very interesting.

I was tempted to buy Pure Piano, but in your examples, I preferred Ravenscroft.

Pure Piano often sounded dampened to me.

Pure Piano is dark, but one of the things I'm really enjoying about it is the unique interface which allows you to quickly dial in a variety of sounds, including a brighter piano. You can also easily bring in more hammer noise, and there's a fantastic "percussive" mode that removes the sustain and sounds very natural. On the more experimental side of things, there is a pad setting that has a slow attack and makes the piano almost sound like strings. And all of these things are very easily jumped between on a single screen, no knobs or sliders. It's a fun app.

tja

@tsamba said:

@tja said:
Very interesting.

I was tempted to buy Pure Piano, but in your examples, I preferred Ravenscroft.

Pure Piano often sounded dampened to me.

Pure Piano is dark, but one of the things I'm really enjoying about it is the unique interface which allows you to quickly dial in a variety of sounds, including a brighter piano. You can also easily bring in more hammer noise, and there's a fantastic "percussive" mode that removes the sustain and sounds very natural. On the more experimental side of things, there is a pad setting that has a slow attack and makes the piano almost sound like strings. And all of these things are very easily jumped between on a single screen, no knobs or sliders. It's a fun app.

I missed the intro price...

Did sales happen?

swfarrington

I've not seen a sale on Pure Piano since its release. Ravenscroft is half price regularly.

I agree with @tsamba that the power in Pure is the morphing pad, and I find it a really nice mellow option and the presets on the morph pad work well. Ravencroft I'm less sold on the factory presets (concert grand is my favourite) but I find Rav275 easier to tweak the sound when I want the piano to be the star of the recording, rather than a supporting instrument.

TheOriginalPaulB

I really don’t like Ravenscroft, there’s no bottom end to the low notes and they just disappear aside from their upper harmonics.

McD

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
I really don’t like Ravenscroft, there’s no bottom end to the low notes and they just disappear aside from their upper harmonics.

Is there a piano app that does have great low end fundamentals? Anyone could suggest their favorite(s) in this regard. In the hardware world of pianos I consider a low end favoring piano to be in the German Tradition of the Bosendorfs and it's immitators.

Does anyone know if UVI discolses the brand of the piano used for the samples of the "Ravenscroft 275" app? I suspect they don't to avoid licensing fees per app.

GOOGLE SEARCH:
VI Labs (why is it called UVI on IOS?) discloses:

Ravenscroft Pianos are designed and built by Michael Spreeman at his company in Scottsdale, Arizona. After working with renowned jazz pianist and composer Bob Ravenscroft on a custom performance piano built to satisfy Bob's highest demands and expressiveness, Mr. Spreeman formed Spreeman Piano Innovations to build the exclusive line of Ravenscroft Pianos, named after the composer. Each handmade Ravenscroft grand takes well over 1,000 hours to complete which is about four times that of a factory built piano, and each can be built specifically to a customer's requests or for a specific design or location.

Mr. Spreeman had been seeing trends in how a large part of the piano world was becoming digital, and realistic sampling along with ever faster computers enable acoustic piano sounds to become easier to emulate. It was imperative for Mr. Spreeman to have his signature Ravenscroft voice captured for the most accurate 'simulator' possible. VI Labs worked with Ravenscroft Pianos at every step of the process to sample their 275 Titanium and do tests so we captured the perfect tone that satisfied the virtual and acoustic instrument makers both. A priority for Ravenscroft was finding the right team to sample their piano because of the expected level of accuracy and realism. With our detailed knowledge of acoustic pianos and recording methods plus complex scripting utilizing the UVI engine, we were able to create the officially licensed Ravenscroft 275 library that truly emulates the voice of the Ravenscroft 275 concert grand.

The Model 275 Titanium was built to be a concerto piano and have power to sing over a full orchestra but still handle the most delicate passages with ease and clarity. Sitka spruce from a 1,000 year old tree was used for the soundboard, the action is CAD optimized to be responsive and balanced to precise tolerances, and all string termination points are of solid titanium which contribute to its brilliance and long sustain. Front and rear tuned duplex scale further adds to the brilliance and sparkle. It responds with the agility of a fine sports car. And most important for the virtual instrument, tonal possibilities and depth of voicing with the Model 275 Titanium seem limitless. The bass is deep with a pronounced fundamental, the tenor is pure and rich, and the treble retains clear overtones and can be as bright as you want just in how you play without ever sounding edgy or brittle. The sustaining sound evolves beautifully over time with several notable 'blooms'. Overall there is brightness and definition but it keeps a warm quality at all times even when it's played fortissimo in any register.

According to Mr. Spreeman, "Although our sound is very clean and pure, it's also multi-dimensional. I strive for multiple layers, or demensions, of complex harmonics that can be heard, sensed, and felt without sacrificing a strong emphasis on a bold fundamental tone."

VI labs and UVI are different companies... but maybe UVI licensed the samples from VI Labs and the right to use the name. UVI is a large (and young) company by IOS App standards.

https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/zt/z3pkg6b5sm3k.png

tja

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
I really don’t like Ravenscroft, there’s no bottom end to the low notes and they just disappear aside from their upper harmonics.

Which i*OS Piano do you prefer?