Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Am I being dramatic?

I have been part of this community for a long time. I have done a bit of preset work for many apps. I find it offensive for so called Youtube creators to sell templates for Loopy Pro at this time. Micheal has given us this forum. He works round the clock. We share samples, presets, and advice.

We are all trying to find new and exciting ways to use the app with various pieces of kit or apparatus.

I find it distasteful for a YouTube channel to tell people they need to give money per month in order to receive a Loopy Pro template. Am I being dramatic? Honestly.

I feel as though the person is doing the Youtube channel on the back of Loopy Pro, so the least the person can do is share the template.

Comments

  • In theory I don't see it as being different from selling presets. It can't rob Michael of sales, they'd have to buy LP to use any template, and possibly if they see a template that does what they want, it might instigate a purchase whereas the supposed complexity might scare some off, legitimately or not.

  • edited January 20

    Hrmmm interesting observation. I think it comes down to the Body of Work the person has. If they are new to the community and are just trying for a land grab then yeah…it’s a pretty sleezy thing to do.

    However, if it’s someone who has a body of work, has done a lot for the community and has a line of business which involves Kits, Patches and such…well it fits in with their M.O.

    I think it’s easy to sniff out Quality or Greed when you encounter such things.

    I hope to be releasing LoopyPro Kits this year so we’ll see how this all pans out.

  • Youtubers for years have been selling presets/patchbanks for software synths such as Serum, Sylenth, Massive and many, many others. Is that not equally offensive to you then - they trying to make some money on the back of the developers of those soft synths?

    I do not own Loopy Pro and to be honest doubt I ever will, and to that end I do not know how much work goes in to creating a template for it, or what use a template sold by someone would be to other users anyway (if the answer to the former is „not a lot“ and the answer to the latter is „not much“ then those Youtubers aren‘t going to sell any/many of their templates anyway).

    Youtube rates are now so low that the majority of content providers on there don’t make much at all, so I don‘t begrudge them trying to find other ways to increase the income from their channel - whether it be through offering merchandise that no-one wants through to selling soundpacks/presets/patchbanks/Ableton-Live templates/FruityLoops templates/LoopyPro templates or whatever.

  • edited January 20
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @RUST( i )K said:
    I have been part of this community for a long time. I have done a bit of preset work for many apps. I find it offensive for so called Youtube creators to sell templates for Loopy Pro at this time. Micheal has given us this forum. He works round the clock. We share samples, presets, and advice.

    @micheal has proposed a scheme for him to maintain a steady stream of income if he has a large body of interested users that seek updates. So, more presets and productivity aids only serve to keep the product active as a platform. So, it doesn't hurt @Michael.

    Now, there's an immediate impulse to be suspicious of anyone asking you for money. When they are plenty of free options it only makes the request even more distasteful.

    But I encourage you to create value added content for Loopy Pro... and price it according to your needs for a return on the effort. I'll bet you will have a large audience and people will appreciate the content since Loopy doesn't ship with loops... That could change as @Michael considers adding a store functionality like Zenbeats or other platforms have to add additional revenues to their base product. We generally expect to see a store on a platform with the major exceptions being AUM, Audiobus, etc.

    Turn your anger into a competitive drive to out perform the early providers of loops and presets.

  • I don't disagree with you on this, especially since @Michael has just released this and it feels like crowding in on his ultra hard work.

    However, I have stopped offering my BandCamp albums free and set a $5 price on the new ones. It's kind of moot cause very few downloads happen anyway but I feel better about it… I’ve put almost four years of effort into making the best music I can with better production values than in years past. I wanted people to have my music free of charge, but ethically, as my own advocate, it seems reasonable that some minimal amount be paid.

    Is this a similar case to the YouTuber? I don’t know really, but it might be.

  • I have absolutely no problems with people wanting to sell templates. In fact, I have some longer term ambitions to have some sort of a marketplace in the app itself, specifically to facilitate that.

    Especially now that Apple have taken away all of our affiliate income, the rotten greedy little bastards, I think this is a perfectly reasonable way to try to get something back from creating content around apps.

  • An app is only as good as the community supporting it. We’re here for you @Michael for the long haul👊🏼™️

  • YouTubers set up Patreons as a way of generating some income to support their work. It's natural for people to expect some bonus content if they step up to support someone (yes, I know some just do it out of loyalty, not expecting any perks).

    I imagine it can be challenging to come up with bonus content for contributors. I don't see Loopy templates any different than presets. It takes no income away from Michael and can only add motivation for people to buy Loopy.

    So, no, I see nothing at all wrong with it.

  • I do enjoy a bit of drama occasionally... and even more so when it leads to an informed discussion and enlightenment.

  • I think it's all cool @RUST( i )K, but I also like you standing there at the door like some large and grumpy uncle keeping an eye on the kids and all. Good man.

  • edited January 20

    It is an interesting question!

    For me, as long as the developer does not prohibit it then it is fine to sell things like this. It is often the case that gaps are purposefully left for the community to fill rather than the developer try and do it themselves. Having the community fill these gaps can also create a buzz which leads to new sales. I did not own Laplace until yesterday when I saw that Spidericemidas was about to release some presets for it.

    I do feel that people should have the opportunity to be paid if they create something that is of benefit to others and they decide to charge for it. I am someone who is happy to pay for presets because I know I don’t have the time to invest to get to those sounds myself. It is possibly the case that some preset sellers have made more money than the original developers but you might argue that this demonstrates a missed business opportunity by the developer for not having their own preset IAPs and partnering with the right creators upfront.

    I have not got far enough with Loopy to be designing templates so I don’t know how hard it is but if someone is really good at it and has spent time creating a useful template then I would be happy to pay them for this. If it turns out to be pretty easy to do then the market will decide, though there will always be people who use marketing to their advantage to try and hawk stuff that you could download for free elsewhere.

    This is a problem we have in the software industry where people (or rather, businesses) are too used to getting software for free. Releasing stuff for free is a good way of getting your name out there but many people need to monetise the time they spend on things to pay their bills. If it is a side hustle then you can afford to be more altruistic.

    I’d be a bit peeved if my free Loopy template appeared in the YouTube video of a big producer and I did not get a shout-out. At least if I had charged for it I’d feel a bit better :smile:

  • Just read the thread.

    What I find sad is that anyone would pay for a template 🤦‍♂️

  • I don’t use presets because I like to do things my way. Never paid for presets... still, they can be useful for many. It’s not even about the work or time involved. Out of convenience we pay for many things these days, so telling someone not to ask for money for basically anything, seems out of line. Whether I agree or not doesn’t matter. If there are people willing to pay for something, coins should roll...
    Interestingly, we often associate value with the linked cost. The more we pay for something, the more we value it. So, if a template can help one user to start making music or even just bond with a tool, imo it’s worth it. LP can only win.

  • wimwim
    edited January 20

    Imma sell an NFT of my next template. Then I'm retiring to some island in the South Pacific. Please don't hate me for it.

  • @RUST( i )K said:
    ... the least the person can do is share the template.

    So you want to freeload "on the back of that person", one sentence after you found it distasteful of him to do the same (in your opinion) to Michael? :)

    So apart from disagreeing with you about the nature of selling templates/presets in general (I think it's perfectly fine) I also think your argument has a problem of internal inconsistency.

  • edited January 20

  • edited January 20

    Generally I don't have anything against selling presets or templates as long as I'm not forced to do so. In this case it's an individual decision to buy or not to buy. I think personally I'd make this dependent on the degree of inventive ingenuity if I'd be willing to pay for it. If DubFX would bake his new Loopy Pro workflow into a template and offer it, I think I'd be willing to pay a lot.

  • It doesn’t bother me as such. As long as the dev is not losing out and there’s people with money lying around that can’t be asked to do it themselves it’s just a type of service.

    As for quality of stuff they’re selling: if it’s good it will swim, if bad it will sink. I’m just sorry for the folks who fall for it in case of the latter. You always take a risk buying stuff off of YT. It’s a flea market innit?

    I guess I’m not hugely bothered by it because I’m used to all sorts being sold that I would never imagine buying myself. I’m a diy cheapskate kind of guy though ;)

  • @wim said:
    Imma sell an NFT of my next template. Then I'm retiring to some island in the South Pacific. Please don't hate me for it.

    Hahaha genius idea. This time next year we’ll be millionaires!

  • Hehe... I thought that was booked for this year... from all your bitcoin investments :)

  • edited January 20

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    I think it's all cool @RUST( i )K, but I also like you standing there at the door like some large and grumpy uncle keeping an eye on the kids and all. Good man.

    This.
    Reminds me of Thurber’s Usher Of The Mind.

    @BCKeys
    Wives. Are. Correct.
    But like you perhaps i often offer help for fun and for free anyway. In the valuable and time honored role of the loyal opposition.

  • @RUST( i )K said:
    I have been part of this community for a long time. I have done a bit of preset work for many apps. I find it offensive for so called Youtube creators to sell templates for Loopy Pro at this time. Micheal has given us this forum. He works round the clock. We share samples, presets, and advice.

    We are all trying to find new and exciting ways to use the app with various pieces of kit or apparatus.

    I find it distasteful for a YouTube channel to tell people they need to give money per month in order to receive a Loopy Pro template. Am I being dramatic? Honestly.

    I feel as though the person is doing the Youtube channel on the back of Loopy Pro, so the least the person can do is share the template.

    Your choice to create presets and share them freely, doesn't make someone else's choice to try to earn money from making presets illegitimate or greedy. I don't see anything wrong with someone seeing if they can make some money for their labor. If they don't provide any value, it isn't likely that they will get many takers.

    I don't understand why you would think that it is an affront to Michael -- any more than it would be if someone created a killer book about how to use Loopy or killer video tutorial series. If anything, such things would validate Michael's efforts.

  • @0tolerance4silence said:
    Hehe... I thought that was booked for this year... from all your bitcoin investments :)

    That wouldn't be far from the truth if I had invested more than a little bit of pocket change.
    It's either NFTs or Lottery tickets now. 😂

  • edited January 20

    If a user doesn’t know how to use an app then presets come in handy.
    On other the hand musicians and Artists who’s sole income
    is from creating content then presets represents work hours.
    There’s nothing wrong in charging for it.

    It’s been mentioned that quality will shine through in the long run and I agree.

    From a personal perspective as a multi skilled and multi instrumentalist
    Artist and musician who would normally earn from doing productions and releasing
    tracks when every second counts then I’m reticent to hand out my presets for free.

    For instance some of my Drambo projects are complete apps within
    themselves thanks to the sheer flexibility and availability of Drambo’s modules.

    One of my presets is a 16 x Multi-tap delay with modulation.
    saturation and panning for each tap and a resonator simply put.
    I didn’t count how many days it took precisely to put it together but
    I’m sure it took about one to two weeks and as I like to fine tune
    my projects I’m sure it’s going to take me a further week to hone.

    My larger projects are much more involved.

    Should I release them for free?
    Where’s my income as an Artist and content generator.
    Let alone the audio loops and tracks I create as a musician and Artist?
    For example my charging rate is in line with U.K Musician Union rates
    as a session musician and that’s currently at £194.40 with
    overtime being at £48.60 per fifteen minutes for a long session.

    This doesn’t include copyright royalties.

    So if someone who has created something and is charging
    for it and users find it worthwhile then pay them something
    or at the very least promote them.

    It encourages market growth.

    It’s a win win and from the perspective of
    the iOS platform itself, it encourages longevity.

  • @Michael said:

    the rotten greedy little bastards, I think this is a perfectly reasonable way to try to get something back from creating content around apps.

    "Iron Mike" Tyson....the peoples champ!

  • edited January 20

    Only semi-related, but I recently learnt that Patreon these days have another option for content creators to charge their fans, so let me mention it in case someone else also has missed it. If you already are a Patreon Sensei you can probably keep scrolling.

    Patreon used to be only monthly payments, and that is what it still is centered around. A content creator can also have different "tiers" and provide additional content in the higher tiers. However, for some content creators, or even some content types, that isn't an ideal subscription format. Especially not those that output content more irregularly than monthly.

    So they have another option for content creators now, and I am thinking that might be more suitable to for example preset/template creators: pay per release. I had no idea this existed (and therefore I am thinking it is new-ish?).
    Basically I as a subscriber can sign up for a content creator. Again, it can be different tiers etc, but the difference is that I will only pay when there is a release from that content creator.

    As I am an avid TTRPG player that recently have been looking at creating digital assets for our face-to-face gaming sessions I came across this concept of "per release" Patreon. It can be seen here for example: https://www.patreon.com/forgottenadventures where they sell map-making assets "per creation" and not per month.

    To prevent being charged 62 times one month from the same content creator (provided he/she released 62 things one month) you can also set an upper maximum limit of how much you will be spending on one content creator during the same month, without it affecting access to the assets.

    Just thought I should mention it in case there are content creators out there that don't think they have a regular/consistent output enough to warrant a monthly payment structure. There is now this alternative. I could imagine this also would be a decent way to support our fave preset creators, who often burst out presets in waves depending on recent releases etc, but where it can go months of nothing released in between too.

    Anyways, as you were. :)

  • @hellquist said:
    Only semi-related, but I recently learnt that Patreon these days have another option for content creators to charge their fans, so let me mention it in case someone else also has missed it. If you already are a Patreon Sensei you can probably keep scrolling.

    Patreon used to be only monthly payments, and that is what it still is centered around. A content creator can also have different "tiers" and provide additional content in the higher tiers. However, for some content creators, or even some content types, that isn't an ideal subscription format. Especially not those that output content more irregularly than monthly.

    So they have another option for content creators now, and I am thinking that might be more suitable to for example preset/template creators: pay per release. I had no idea this existed (and therefore I am thinking it is new-ish?).
    Basically I as a subscriber can sign up for a content creator. Again, it can be different tiers etc, but the difference is that I will only pay when there is a release from that content creator.

    As I am an avid TTRPG player that recently have been looking at creating digital assets for our face-to-face gaming sessions I came across this concept of "per release" Patreon. It can be seen here for example: https://www.patreon.com/forgottenadventures where they sell map-making assets "per creation" and not per month.

    To prevent being charged 62 times one month from the same content creator (provided he/she released 62 things one month) you can also set an upper maximum limit of how much you will be spending on one content creator during the same month, without it affecting access to the assets.

    Just thought I should mention it in case there are content creators out there that don't think they have a regular/consistent output enough to warrant a monthly payment structure. There is now this alternative. I could imagine this also would be a decent way to support our fave preset creators, who often burst out presets in waves depending on recent releases etc, but where it can go months of nothing released in between too.

    Anyways, as you were. :)

    I created a Patreon account ages ago and am now looking into setting it up
    from my informal questions there didn’t seem much point.
    Gumroad was another suggestion which I’m also looking into.

    Thanks for the info.

    I’ll also be sure to pass it on.

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