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Sitala (drum sampler) coming to iOS / iPadOS, looking for feedback

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Comments

  • @luzifer said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @scotchi do you have a link to this?

    Also, sessions in MTS from iOS to desktop aren’t retaining the Sitala kit/patch setting. It resets to the default 808 kit when opening the iPad MTS project on desktop MTS. Drambo as an auv3 for instance, does retain the patch/preset across platforms. The kit/patch/preset used in Sitala is on both the desktop on iOS versions.

    Our desktop app needs a small update to allow opening projects created on iOS ... This will follow soon

    Thanks 🙏

    Also, How can I get the Ableton to Sitala kit converter?

  • edited June 9

    @echoopera said:
    You have a nice app. Seems counter intuitive to restrict it to just drum sounds or sounds with present transients. At least let the user create their own Slice marks as an override in the case of melodic sounds so we can Slice to Pads like we do in BeatMaker3 and Koala and Drambo to name a few.

    I both like the app so far and fully agree to what @echoopera is saying: right now it seems more or less random whether a sample can be sliced to other pads or not and I don't see a reason why one shouldn't have the option to split it into x pads and be able to manually adjust the start and end points afterwards.

    And I want to add @developer: I find it really great to see how actively you are participating here. For me this is getting more and more important for my "decision-process" regarding new apps (in case I have my GAS under control - which is not that likely I guess xD). Being in contact with the music-making spirit/enthusiasm on the "other side" of the app-store gives me even more the feeling of a family :).

  • @Samu said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    Audioshare is and will likely remain a vary valuable app for many people.

    No doubt but it needs some dev love and care to stay 'up-to-date' with the features the OS provides :sunglasses:

    Fileprovider Extensions (all of them, Drop Box, Google Drive, Readdle Documents etc.) have some limitations when it comes to sharing and linking files and folders with other apps.

    Single file access is ok but complete folder access is a BIG no-no and will likely remain so...
    ...I would not be at all surprised if File Provider Extensions will deprecate say within 2 years or so...

    Time will tell where things go...

    Agreed.

  • @scotchi said:

    @iTVbene said:

    so sitala should now be the easiest way to share beats between my ipad/iphone and my friends who use Studio One on PC? I‘d just send them the kit (and MIDI separately because there is no sequencer in sitala)? That alone would make it worth for me. Also, can someone tell me the quickest way to get chopped samples from koala into sitala?

    Yeah, you'd be able to move the kits directly between Studio One and Sitala.

    Koala has an option to export the samples as .wav files, which you can them import into Sitala. It also has an option to export to Live drum racks. A while back we wrote a converter from Live Drum Racks to Sitala kits (to convert the whole Samples from Mars collection), which it may now be time to dust off to see if we can get it in a state that we could throw in the general direction of users. (It'd probably be a separate converting tool rather than integrated into Sitala itself.)

    Would be fantastic! And yes a lot of Samples from Mars are also somewhere on my HD.

  • @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @scotchi do you have a link to this?

    I mentioned this a little earlier in the thread, but this is something we initially created to convert large commercial libraries (at that time we were trying to get the Samples from Mars guys to support Sitala) and is at present just a command line tool that hasn't been widely tested in the wild.

    But this week we've gotten a few requests for this, so I'll see if I can't throw something together in the next couple weeks that's a bit more robust / user-friendly. The guts should be mostly done, but it needs a fair amount of polish before being ready for the world.

  • @echoopera said:

    Interesting. Isn’t a sample just a sample until it is used by the musician to make music. Drums can be derived from any sound source.

    I understand the musical intuition you're coming from, but things are a little more complicated in Sitala. Kind of the driving philosophy behind philosophy is minimizing configuration and trying to just Get Things Right (TM). While samplers on iOS tend to be simpler in general, that philosophy is kind of the thing that makes Sitala pretty unique on the desktop -- where it feels like most competing apps really try to pack in as many controls as possible, our goal is really to do as much musically with as few controls as possible.

    Sometimes that means that we need to be able to make assumptions about the content of the samples. Right now those assumptions are based on Sitala containing percussion samples. Of course you can trigger anything with it, and there's no reason not to, but it shines for percussion stuff.

    For example, the Tone and Shape knobs aren't static controls. They do slightly different thing based on the content of the sample (particularly the length, leading and trailing silence and dominant frequencies).

    I think you should support non transient samples which get sliced to a 16 Pad grid and let the musician decide what they want to do with the sound they import. That’s just my personal feeling since i use samples from all manner of places and sources.

    You have a nice app. Seems counter intuitive to restrict it to just drum sounds or sounds with present transients. At least let the user create their own Slice marks as an override in the case of melodic sounds so we can Slice to Pads like we do in BeatMaker3 and Koala and Drambo to name a few.

    That mostly came out of us asking, "How can we add a beat slicing feature while keeping the single-shot interface as simple as possible?" We then came to the idea of only turning on beat-slicing when we detected that it was relevant for the given sample.

    Anyhoo it’s not worth a return considering the price but i just won’t be using it for sample slicing until i can bring in melodic/soundscape style audio tracks. Hope to see this in the future.

    Sitala does support copy and paste, so you can of course copy a pad, paste it somewhere else, and then set the start and end points manually. Would something like "paste to all pads" get you most of the way there? That's something that we considered for this version, but in the end didn't end up adding.

  • edited June 9

    @Hannes said:
    I both like the app so far and fully agree to what @echoopera is saying: right now it seems more or less random whether a sample can be sliced to other pads or not and I don't see a reason why one shouldn't have the option to split it into x pads and be able to manually adjust the start and end points afterwards.

    You can do that, more or less, by copying and pasting the pad to other pads. The start and end points are already configurable. Again, same question from my last post: would something like "Paste to all pads" get you most of the way there for what you're trying to do?

    The reason I'm asking on that is that Sitala doesn't have the notion of sliced pads remaining linked -- so if you adjust the slice points in one sample, it won't e.g. move it on the following pad. Reworking that to do something more like a classical breaks slicer (thinking of the old Kompakt from Native Instruments) would be a pretty big interface change, so isn't likely to happen in the short term.

    And I want to add @developer: I find it really great to see how actively you are participating here. For me this is getting more and more important for my "decision-process" regarding new apps (in case I have my GAS under control - which is not that likely I guess xD). Being in contact with the music-making spirit/enthusiasm on the "other side" of the app-store gives me even more the feeling of a family :).

    Thanks! And while I'm at it, thanks to everyone here for all of the great feedback. I hope it shows that we take it seriously, and a lot of the stuff that's come up today will make it into the next version. @luzifer and I are both musicians too, so we're trying to see this from both sides...

  • edited June 9

    @scotchi I'm happy to beta the converting tool when it's closer to ready. I'm emailed about that too. :) I did testing on the kit-maker.com converter as well and I informed the devs there about Sitala and FAC Drumkit, which they hadn't heard of. It might be worth reaching out to combine efforts. Kit Maker supports a couple of formats that are xml based and has a Ableton converter as well, but it's primary focus is converting Maschine expansions.

  • @scotchi said:

    @j_liljedahl said:

    Yes, I will probably scrap it in the future AudioShare 3, and instead rely on the standard iOS Files system. But there need to be backwards compatibility so users can at least move their files from the old location.

    @j_liljedahl Just from my quick glance at the API, it also looks like there's no way to get a list of files from AudioShare. Is that correct?

    You don't need any special API, if you just support iOS standard Files system (Document Picker), users can access AudioShare there via its File Provider Extension. The AudioShareSDK is an old thing from the time where Pasteboard was the only way to send files between apps, that simplified the workflow for import/export from/to AudioShare.

  • @auxmux said:
    @scotchi I'm happy to beta the converting tool when it's closer to ready. I'm emailed about that too. :) I did testing on the kit-maker.com converter as well and I informed the devs there about Sitala

    You might point them at our "kits" page. It has a brief explanation of our file format (which we're happy to help with further). We intentionally designed our file format to be really easy to use from other software, so should be very easy to import / export from. It's literally just a zip file with .wav files and an XML description that's almost self documenting.

    and FAC Drumkit, which they hadn't heard of. It might be worth reaching out to combine efforts. Kit Maker supports a couple of formats that are xml based and has a Ableton converter as well, but it's primary focus is converting Maschine expansions.

    We'll probably make our implementation open source, so if anybody feels like futzing with or copying it, they'd be welcome to.

  • edited June 9

    @scotchi Yeah, I had looked at the format before sending to them. I like how straightforward the format is. FAC Drumkit and EG Pulse are as well. I had requested EG Pulse when it came out and they were able to add it. ADG are much more complex.

    Awesome, re open source, that'd be neat to convert between formats.

  • @Samu said:

    @CapnWillie said:

    Audioshare is and will likely remain a vary valuable app for many people.

    No doubt but it needs some dev love and care to stay 'up-to-date' with the features the OS provides :sunglasses:

    Fileprovider Extensions (all of them, Drop Box, Google Drive, Readdle Documents etc.) have some limitations when it comes to sharing and linking files and folders with other apps.

    Single file access is ok but complete folder access is a BIG no-no and will likely remain so...

    As far as I know this is not a limitation in these apps, but in how the iOS Files system handles folders in File Provider Extensions. However, you can for example export a whole folder from AudioShare to an iOS Files location, but maybe not all locations (for the reasons you mention). I tried exporting a folder from AS into iCloud Drive and Google Drive, and both worked. The other way around (import folder from X to AS) only worked from iCloud Drive or On my iPad though, probably because of this limitation with File Provider Extensions.

    In any case, it means that as long as Sitala exposes its standard Documents folder to the iOS Files system, you can export a whole folder from AudioShare into it. (But it will be copied, not opened-in-place).

  • @scotchi said:
    A while back we wrote a converter from Live Drum Racks to Sitala kits (to convert the whole Samples from Mars collection), which it may now be time to dust off to see if we can get it in a state that we could throw in the general direction of users. (It'd probably be a separate converting tool rather than integrated into Sitala itself.)

    Holy shit, that's insane! I love my SFM collection but have barely scratched the surface of it using it within iOS whereas in Live I can just import the instruments and go nuts. Being able to do the same thing within iOS would be truly incredible

  • @CapnWillie said:
    Audioshare offers alot of advantages over files app depending on how you’re using it.

    You can’t audition, trim, fade, normalize or convert files to other formats in Files app or am I missing something?

    Right. So, like with all things, different strokes for different folks.

    Audioshare is and will likely remain a vary valuable app for many people.

    Yup, I still use it for trim, fade, normalize and file conversion.

  • @scotchi said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @scotchi do you have a link to this?

    I mentioned this a little earlier in the thread, but this is something we initially created to convert large commercial libraries (at that time we were trying to get the Samples from Mars guys to support Sitala) and is at present just a command line tool that hasn't been widely tested in the wild.

    But this week we've gotten a few requests for this, so I'll see if I can't throw something together in the next couple weeks that's a bit more robust / user-friendly. The guts should be mostly done, but it needs a fair amount of polish before being ready for the world.

    Good to know that it’s in the works! Looking very forward to it!! It’d be great if you could talk to @elgrayso about it being a output format for kitmaker also. I think that’d be a real win for both sides!

  • edited June 9

    @PeteSasqwax said:
    Holy shit, that's insane! I love my SFM collection but have barely scratched the surface of it using it within iOS whereas in Live I can just import the instruments and go nuts. Being able to do the same thing within iOS would be truly incredible

    This is a couple years stale, but still has a bunch of useful kits:

    https://decomposer.de/shared/all-samples-from-mars-sitala-kits.zip

    Unlike most Sitala kits, those aren't self-contained (since we can't legally distribute their samples), so you'll have to unzip that inside of your top-level Samples from Mars folder. Once you've verified you've got everything in the right spot (probably easier on the desktop), you should be able to move the whole folder over to iOS and go wild.

    Or you can wait until we release the converter and then pick individual kits to futz with. :smile:

    Oh, and, uhh, we wouldn't mind if some more folks pestered the Samples from Mars folks to distribute Sitala kits, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. (Particularly since we offered to give them all of the kit files, and tested the conversion of every single kit.)

  • @ipadbeatmaking said:

    @scotchi said:

    @ipadbeatmaking said:
    @scotchi do you have a link to this?

    I mentioned this a little earlier in the thread, but this is something we initially created to convert large commercial libraries (at that time we were trying to get the Samples from Mars guys to support Sitala) and is at present just a command line tool that hasn't been widely tested in the wild.

    But this week we've gotten a few requests for this, so I'll see if I can't throw something together in the next couple weeks that's a bit more robust / user-friendly. The guts should be mostly done, but it needs a fair amount of polish before being ready for the world.

    Good to know that it’s in the works! Looking very forward to it!! It’d be great if you could talk to @elgrayso about it being a output format for kitmaker also. I think that’d be a real win for both sides!

    In addition to the above ⬆️ Do you think we can get WEBDAV access so its easier to batch import kits to iOS. And sub-folders in the user folder would be great

  • @scotchi said:
    This is a couple years stale, but still has a bunch of useful kits:

    https://decomposer.de/shared/all-samples-from-mars-sitala-kits.zip

    Unlike most Sitala kits, those aren't self-contained (since we can't legally distribute their samples), so you'll have to unzip that inside of your top-level Samples from Mars folder. Once you've verified you've got everything in the right spot (probably easier on the desktop), you should be able to move the whole folder over to iOS and go wild.

    Amazing - thank you! I'll try to find time to go at them this weekend (and consider the SFM guys well and truly pestered 😉)

  • A dark theme would be great too.

  • edited June 10

    @scotchi said:

    @echoopera said:

    Interesting. Isn’t a sample just a sample until it is used by the musician to make music. Drums can be derived from any sound source.

    I understand the musical intuition you're coming from, but things are a little more complicated in Sitala. Kind of the driving philosophy behind philosophy is minimizing configuration and trying to just Get Things Right (TM). While samplers on iOS tend to be simpler in general, that philosophy is kind of the thing that makes Sitala pretty unique on the desktop -- where it feels like most competing apps really try to pack in as many controls as possible, our goal is really to do as much musically with as few controls as possible.

    Sometimes that means that we need to be able to make assumptions about the content of the samples. Right now those assumptions are based on Sitala containing percussion samples. Of course you can trigger anything with it, and there's no reason not to, but it shines for percussion stuff.

    For example, the Tone and Shape knobs aren't static controls. They do slightly different thing based on the content of the sample (particularly the length, leading and trailing silence and dominant frequencies).

    I think you should support non transient samples which get sliced to a 16 Pad grid and let the musician decide what they want to do with the sound they import. That’s just my personal feeling since i use samples from all manner of places and sources.

    You have a nice app. Seems counter intuitive to restrict it to just drum sounds or sounds with present transients. At least let the user create their own Slice marks as an override in the case of melodic sounds so we can Slice to Pads like we do in BeatMaker3 and Koala and Drambo to name a few.

    That mostly came out of us asking, "How can we add a beat slicing feature while keeping the single-shot interface as simple as possible?" We then came to the idea of only turning on beat-slicing when we detected that it was relevant for the given sample.

    Anyhoo it’s not worth a return considering the price but i just won’t be using it for sample slicing until i can bring in melodic/soundscape style audio tracks. Hope to see this in the future.

    Sitala does support copy and paste, so you can of course copy a pad, paste it somewhere else, and then set the start and end points manually. Would something like "paste to all pads" get you most of the way there? That's something that we considered for this version, but in the end didn't end up adding.

    Soooo…i should just continue using Koala, Drambo, sEGments or BM3 for my Sampling duties and only use Sitala for percussive sounds?🤷‍♂️

    I guess I’d be breaking a Philosophical treatise if i used Koala to generate my Slices, then exported them to individual files and imported them to Sitala to play. Free will is a real knocker ain’t it.

    Yes…i am attempting sarcasm on a forum thread. Hope it works 🤪

    It seems like a nice Drum sampler you have here…i just think that not supporting user defined slicing is just a little weird. Forcing Transients to be present in an audio file in order for Slice to Pads to work seems overly demanding to the user. Transient detection should just happen in a Sampler, but also Number of Slices(even a max of 16) should just work as well.

    I’ve never encountered a Sampler that cared about what kind of audio files you fed it. Sure the controls and parameters might be specific to percussive sounds. Even Atlas and XO don’t care what audio i feed it. If it detects something outside the Percussive domain, it tags it appropriately and let’s me use it…with their Percussive tuned parameters.

    You have a chance to have a Digitakt style Sampler on iOS with some amazing functionality. Don’t sell it short because you want it to be so rigid in its framework. Yeah i know the Digitakt doesn’t support Slicing and forces me to do the Copy Paste tweak Star/End nonsense…but they want you to buy an OctaTrack for proper slicing. Maybe i shouldn’t have used that Sampler as an example for my case🤪

    Maybe I’m more of an Alchemical subscriber to life than a philosophical one. I’m all about Getting Things Done (GTD™️) by any means necessary.

    Free Will and all. 😉

    Thanks for hearing me out and good luck with the app. I mean that sincerely 👊🏼™️

    Thanks for stopping by our little peanut gallery as well. We’re a bunch of good hearted folks who occasionally look up from fingering our pieces of glass to smell the roses and enjoy the sunshine. 🤪

    You’ve brought some light to these here parts, and i just want more light…ya know

    All the best 🙏🏼💕

  • I bought Sitala and really like it, thank you @luzifer!

  • @Jumpercollins said:
    First question what formats can you import into the app as it’s not detected my iCloud wav files ?

    Got it to also list the files that aren't downloaded and initiate a download if you select one of them.
    There is still some work to do here and swiping isn't handled at all at the moment but there's progress :)

  • @luzifer said:

    @Jumpercollins said:
    First question what formats can you import into the app as it’s not detected my iCloud wav files ?

    Got it to also list the files that aren't downloaded and initiate a download if you select one of them.
    There is still some work to do here and swiping isn't handled at all at the moment but there's progress :)

    Like this approach. Seeing the files and then initiating the download works. Sample Crate does same for files in iCloud.

  • so when i go to add a folder i can see Audioshare, but it won’t let me add it. is that possible, or is it just a comparability thing?

  • Really like the simple workflow approach of Sitala - thanks! I am always looking for a drum sampler that is cross-platform, since I like to transfer my productions over to Cubase on desktop for the final touch.

    @scotchi Here are some refinements that I would appreciate in future updates (that hopefully would allow for maintaining the simplicity of the app's workflow):

    • this one was already discussed here: having non downloaded iCloud files visible and be able to download within Sitala's browser
    • additionally drag and drop to pads from files app would be great
    • simple fade in and out handles in addition to start and end, or then ability to apply both positive and negative values for the "shape" knob at the same time
    • zoom into a waveform for adjusting start/end more accurately
    • ability to zoom in / focus on the selected sliced sample portion, possible even trim or crop to the selected portion
    • ability to edit (add, delete)/ move hitpoints in a sliced sample
    • ability to adjust tuning control in semitone steps for tuning of eg kicks that are in certain key

    For the desktop version I was expecting it to have a 4x4 pad layout which would reflect the layout of a typical pad controller. Maybe there could be user selectable pad layouts? e.g. 1x16 / 8x2 / 4x4?

    I am excited to follow along how this simple yet powerful app develops! Thanks to the developers!

  • Another feature for multi-out which would be useful is being able to pick which audio out is used per pad and the ability to use the same audio out for multiple pads.

    This is handy when grouping like sounds such as kicks, snares, etc. It also minimizes the number of outputs used. I find this useful for consolidating the number of tracks but still having the ability to multiple pads.

  • can you copy one pad, to another pad?

  • @eross said:
    can you copy one pad, to another pad?

    yes. even across tracks, projects or apps

  • @auxmux said:
    I'm finding having files in iCloud as very easy to navigate around using Sitala. Library support for other providers like Readdle Documents and Audioshare would be great but I'd vote for drag and drop as higher for Sample Crate as mentioned.

    Does it access files app or just iCloud. If you have files integration it also provides iCloud, audioshare, external hd/SSD, on device, etc…

  • @Poppadocrock said:

    Does it access files app or just iCloud. If you have files integration it also provides iCloud, audioshare, external hd/SSD, on device, etc…

    Files.app fully supported but linking files from a File Provider (AudioShare, DropBox etc.) is wonky due to some iOS issues.
    (ie. you can not 'swipe' prev/next sample when the source folder is shared by a File-Provider, but you can still import single samples).

    For me personally this is NOT an issues as >90% of all my samples are stored inside BM3 and the rest in apps that are already visible to Files.app.

    Memory Cards & SSD's should work without any issues and they don't rely on the File-Provider extension...

    Cheers!

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