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Sitala (drum sampler) coming to iOS / iPadOS, looking for feedback

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Comments

  • Multiple samples per pad for round robin/random/velocity.

    This missing feature is also the reason why I don‘t use the Sitala desktop version.

  • edited January 19

    We have quite a few options for this sort of thing now with Koala, eg pulse, fac Drumkit etc.

    You do have an opportunity here to crack the round robin / multi layer sample thing that I’m not sure any of these apps do.

    Also if you can allow opening popular formats like kontakt etc that’ll set it apart.

    And PLEASE save samples in the auv3 instance like koala so that they are portable with the host, so we don’t have to mess around syncing presets on different devices.

    I’m saying all of this having never heard of or used sitala, so dunno if these features are even suitable

  • I might be interested in Sitala as it is, if the CPU usage is the lowest among the current options. Loopy Pro has the best interface for browsing through samples so far, but it would be easy to improve upon it. My current workflow is to assemble a drumkit with Loopy Pro, and then move it to EG Pulse. (FractalBits has the lowest CPU usage beyond that, but it's not a traditional sampler.)

    In response to the dev's questions, I do like it when every button is exposed as an AU parameter. I prefer my sequencer to be a separate module, and for it to support unquantized recording. I do like to arrange clips in Reaper sometimes.

    I'm thinking about starting a topic about "designing your ideal sampler" once I finish designing my ideal sampler, because I really do want an app like AudioLayer, but with MPC pads, and the ability to assign ranges without extremely precise movements, or a stylus.

    I think Sitala has a pretty good, minimalist design. I would like to see something that retains a similar level of ergonomics/efficiency, while having capabilities like velocity layers and round robin. But I would also like for that to be open source, designed with a ton of user feedback, and completely separate from the sequencer component.

  • @Samu said:
    Don't know how far you've come with the 'left/right sample browsing'(with iOS/iPadOS permissions and all) inside the AUv3 but if you can nail that you've got a winner!

    No, unfortunately that's something that we haven't found a way to make it work on iOS. We don't have access to the file listings. If you know of anything that has something along those lines, we'd love to see it since that would at least tell us that it's possible and for us to keep trying.

    Worth considering is adding support AUv3 multi output where each pad can be assigned to an output bus and when added they get removed from the main mix.

    We have a multi-out mode, but it's at the moment all or nothing -- when in multi-out mode, every pad goes to a separate channel.

    I do not know the the parameters are 'realtime' and possible to automate (via AUParamters) but if they are that's a big plus!

    Yep, they're automatable.

    Feel free to share a public beta-link when it's available and I'm quite sure many will be willing to assist with testing!

    We're not sure if we're going to do private or public beta (or both!), but we'll follow up with you and some of the other folks that have registered interest either way.

  • @NeuM said:
    Future releases (I suppose) could look into ways to sequence, adjust swing/human feel, and possibly incorporate MPE for effects or warping sounds or what have you, but this is a very strong first release.

    That's something we've toyed with, but it's a pretty big undertaking, so we thought we'd basically first port the macOS version to iOS and see how the uptake looks.

  • @Jmd8928 said:
    Is there an option for multiple sounds per pad, like velocity and round robin? I currently run my Alesis nitro into digistix2, but have found the 5samples per pad limiting? Anyway good luck can’t wait to try it.

    Not yet. That's something that we have on our radar, and I even think we've come up with a pretty unique and intuitive way to handle multi-sample handling, but it's honestly something that will probably be a year of work to implement, so it's still a bit further out in the future. For us, we usually don't implement features until we feel like we have a way to wrap the complexity into something intuitive, and it was only in the last few months that we feel like we got our heads around this one.

  • @scotchi said:

    We're not sure if we're going to do private or public beta (or both!), but we'll follow up with you and some of the other folks that have registered interest either way.

    I'd be interested in getting involved if you need testers...

  • @scotchi said:

    @Samu said:
    Don't know how far you've come with the 'left/right sample browsing'(with iOS/iPadOS permissions and all) inside the AUv3 but if you can nail that you've got a winner!

    No, unfortunately that's something that we haven't found a way to make it work on iOS. We don't have access to the file listings. If you know of anything that has something along those lines, we'd love to see it since that would at least tell us that it's possible and for us to keep trying.

    Hi!

    I know it can be done, the app needs to request permission from the user when accessing files outside its own container.
    This will however require fairly recent (15+) iOS/iPadOS version thus it's not widely implemented in music apps as many users have decided to postpone updating their devices...

    Considering that iOS/iPadOS 16 will drop later this year I feel it's better to stay with the times, especially when it's a 'new' app.

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    @scotchi said:

    @Samu said:
    Don't know how far you've come with the 'left/right sample browsing'(with iOS/iPadOS permissions and all) inside the AUv3 but if you can nail that you've got a winner!

    No, unfortunately that's something that we haven't found a way to make it work on iOS. We don't have access to the file listings. If you know of anything that has something along those lines, we'd love to see it since that would at least tell us that it's possible and for us to keep trying.

    Hi!

    I know it can be done, the app needs to request permission from the user when accessing files outside its own container.
    This will however require fairly recent (15+) iOS/iPadOS version thus it's not widely implemented in music apps as many users have decided to postpone updating their devices...

    Considering that iOS/iPadOS 16 will drop later this year I feel it's better to stay with the times, especially when it's a 'new' app.

    Cheers!

    Hey! This is interesting. Do you have any details on that? Any apps or even better Plug-ins that make use of this feature? I've tried a quick google but nothing interesting came up. Do you happen to know the name of the permission or API used to do that? The app as it is currently has iOS 11 as minimum requirement but being able to use those features might make it worthwhile to bump that.

    Cheers

  • @luzifer said:

    Hey! This is interesting. Do you have any details on that? Any apps or even better Plug-ins that make use of this feature?

    Koala betas had an 'inline browser' (ie. custom file browser where you could select any location).
    The final version resorted to using a custom Files.app/Split-screen in the stand-alone and regular file-picker in AUv3.

    One app that already is an amazing example of how to access files outside the app container is Lumafusion.
    You can add any location to it's built-in file browser and reference the files(even on USB devices) no need to import anything!

    Lumafusion does however require iOS/iPadOS15+ for this to work...

  • @scotchi This app looks cool. Would like the following.
    1. More banks
    2. Bit crush / degrade effects
    3. Does it have Swing / Groove quantize?
    4. Slice to pads

  • Is it much of a pain to implement multiple layers per pad?
    Sorry for my dumb question, I‘m a total layman.

    I‘m just baffled that no iOS (drum)sampler seems to offer this feature and on desktop there are quite a few options ( Poise, Speedrum, Groove Agent come to mind). The MPC software at least allows 4 samples per pad ( „cycle kits“ ).

    For example, I find it nearly impossible to build a fairly realistic sounding acoustic drum kit with only one sample per pad.

  • @scotchi I would like to beta test, regardless of the planned features.

    But that's a good point about LumaFusion @Samu. Even before iOS 15, I seem to remember it offered a traditional file browsing and clip playing interface, but maybe it only accessed the camera roll.

  • @Skyblazer said:

    >

    But that's a good point about LumaFusion @Samu. Even before iOS 15, I seem to remember it offered a traditional file browsing and clip playing interface, but maybe it only accessed the camera roll.

    Yepp, the earlier version linked to the files present in the camera-roll...
    ...you could import files from other locations that could be accessed using the Document Picker.

    If I recall correctly with iOS/iPadOS15 Lumatouch added the option to link to files in other locations including usb storage devices.

  • @Gravity said:
    Is it much of a pain to implement multiple layers per pad?
    Sorry for my dumb question, I‘m a total layman.

    The sound side of things is pretty trivial. We want to make sure we get the interface right though, and we expect that to be several months of work. There's a lot of stuff we approach that way in Sitala -- we'd rather bring features out more slowly, but really take the effort to get them right.

    I‘m just baffled that no iOS (drum)sampler seems to offer this feature and on desktop there are quite a few options ( Poise, Speedrum, Groove Agent come to mind). The MPC software at least allows 4 samples per pad ( „cycle kits“ ).

    For example, I find it nearly impossible to build a fairly realistic sounding acoustic drum kit with only one sample per pad.

    Thus far we've seen Sitala mainly as a sampler for electronic sound (drum machines, mostly), so while what you're saying is obviously true, making realistic acoustic sounding kits wasn't an initial goal of Sitala.

  • @Samu said:
    If I recall correctly with iOS/iPadOS15 Lumatouch added the option to link to files in other locations including usb storage devices.

    We found a video that seems to confirm this, so we're looking more closely now. I'd expect that's already one consequence of this thread: we are likely to have sample browsing working because of this info.

  • @MistaG said:

    @Samu said:
    I see Sitala as a ‘sound module’ NOT as a sampler or sequencer, got other apps for that…

    Can I ask what you use to sequence drums with? I prefer “in app” but I’d happily use an external sequencer if I found one I liked. I’m currently back to using DM1 as I found the in app sequencer in DigiStix 2 too fiddly (even though it had many more features).

    It’s not that bad in DS if to remove a note you tap and do a mini swipe to the right.

  • @Samu said:

    @Skyblazer said:

    >

    But that's a good point about LumaFusion @Samu. Even before iOS 15, I seem to remember it offered a traditional file browsing and clip playing interface, but maybe it only accessed the camera roll.

    Yepp, the earlier version linked to the files present in the camera-roll...
    ...you could import files from other locations that could be accessed using the Document Picker.

    If I recall correctly with iOS/iPadOS15 Lumatouch added the option to link to files in other locations including usb storage devices.

    Thank you so much for the input. We quickly hacked together a prove of concept and cycling through directories work now!

  • @luzifer said:

    Thank you so much for the input. We quickly hacked together a prove of concept and cycling through directories work now!

    Well done :sunglasses:
    It'll likely be one of the very first iOS/iPadOS apps using linked samples...

  • @luzifer said:

    @Samu said:

    @Skyblazer said:

    >

    But that's a good point about LumaFusion @Samu. Even before iOS 15, I seem to remember it offered a traditional file browsing and clip playing interface, but maybe it only accessed the camera roll.

    Yepp, the earlier version linked to the files present in the camera-roll...
    ...you could import files from other locations that could be accessed using the Document Picker.

    If I recall correctly with iOS/iPadOS15 Lumatouch added the option to link to files in other locations including usb storage devices.

    Thank you so much for the input. We quickly hacked together a prove of concept and cycling through directories work now!

    YES!!

  • @Samu said:

    @luzifer said:

    Hey! This is interesting. Do you have any details on that? Any apps or even better Plug-ins that make use of this feature?

    Koala betas had an 'inline browser' (ie. custom file browser where you could select any location).
    The final version resorted to using a custom Files.app/Split-screen in the stand-alone and regular file-picker in AUv3.

    One app that already is an amazing example of how to access files outside the app container is Lumafusion.
    You can add any location to it's built-in file browser and reference the files(even on USB devices) no need to import anything!

    Lumafusion does however require iOS/iPadOS15+ for this to work...

    @Samu @luzifer the current Koala version does this very well.
    You can import samples from any location on your ipad, icloud or external harddrive.
    you can also preview samples before importing.
    Here is a mini demonstration

  • Looks super interesting. IF you do a public beta I’d love to be a part of it. I think everyone here has offered up some good suggestions. I just love the idea of a simple, to the point app. And this looks great for that.

  • @Paa89 said:

    @Samu said:

    @luzifer said:

    Hey! This is interesting. Do you have any details on that? Any apps or even better Plug-ins that make use of this feature?

    Koala betas had an 'inline browser' (ie. custom file browser where you could select any location).
    The final version resorted to using a custom Files.app/Split-screen in the stand-alone and regular file-picker in AUv3.

    One app that already is an amazing example of how to access files outside the app container is Lumafusion.
    You can add any location to it's built-in file browser and reference the files(even on USB devices) no need to import anything!

    Lumafusion does however require iOS/iPadOS15+ for this to work...

    @Samu @luzifer the current Koala version does this very well.
    You can import samples from any location on your ipad, icloud or external harddrive.
    you can also preview samples before importing.
    Here is a mini demonstration

    I’m quite aware of what Koala can do :sunglasses:

    The point with Sitala is to be able to swap out samples on the fly without having to import anything, just point a pad at a folder with samples and BOOM!

    I guess you’re aware of how Lumafusion can access and reference files anywhere on the device without having to import anything, this is something that any ‘respectable’ DAW should be able to do as well right?

    I’m really looking forward to how Sitala works in practice :)

    Cheers!

  • Development of the iOS version is coming along pretty good. We have what we think is a pretty good take on sample browsing and usage of samples without importing.
    So far we've tested mostly with Garageband and Audiobus. However it'd be important to be able to test parameter automation and multi-out both of which i think aren't supported in either.
    Do you have any tips which AU host to get that supports those features?

    Cheers

  • @luzifer said:

    Do you have any tips which AU host to get that supports those features?

    WIth AUM (Host) you can assign a Midi CC to any AUParamater for automation.
    ApeMatrix allows you to assign its own LFO's etc. to any AUParamater.

    Hosts such as Cubasis and BM3 allow direct automation of AUv3 parameters from the Plug-In UI.

    In Cubasis enable W in the Plug-In window and tweak the knobs during playback, in BM3 enable automation recording in the
    A (Automations) menu.

    In NS2 you'll have to map an AUParamater to any of the 10 or so knobs that can be used for automation.

    I think there's a couple more that support AUv3 automation as well.

    Most host developers are likely more than happy yo share promo-codes to their apps for development purposes.

    Cheers!

  • edited April 7

    Feel free to share a public beta-link when it's available and I'm quite sure many will be willing to assist with testing!

    We're not sure if we're going to do private or public beta (or both!), but we'll follow up with you and some of the other folks that have registered interest either way.

    I would like to officially register interest. Lol.

    I think some of the things mentioned are great, low on cpu is high for me, everything exposed and multi out are all great, glad to see you’re taking that route. Small size in general. Im realizing more and more the apps I use the most have a A Clean and clear UI. This is probably a given, but apps by Bleass excel at this. Maybe a few color options, adjustable text size could help. The text & font look rather small. Maybe even custom pad colors so you can set a certain color for certain parts of a drum kit, or parts of a song. Based of videos above the ui could use more contrast, a good color scheme, or a few adjustments to add a little dimension to the look.

    Real Drum Kit Multi Velocity Presets - I personally think a handful of great built in presets taking advantage of the multiple layers, using acoustic/real drum kits, set up just right would go a long way. There is currently no multi layered acoustic drum kit presets that come with any Au drum app. Sure there’s lots of great presets between all the Au drum app options, but no real drum kits with multiple Velocity hits built in. You have to build them up yourself with samples. So a handful of these, maybe different drum kits from different decades, would go a long way and automatically separate your app from anything else available.

    Basic Sample Editing, obviously important, trimming, attack, release, etc.

    Pad play options like one shot, loop, reverse, ping pong, etc.. are needed.

    Take a look at IMaschine 2 as well, they get a lot right when it comes to the pads and playing them. The Repeat pad function, is great. You can set several different pad repeat speeds, and play them on that separate panel on the left.

    Possibly A slicer for loops, slicing loops to pads.

    Personally I don’t think I need any effects in the app are needed. There are so many great fx apps available. unless the in app FX are amazing, I am probably going to use external fx. A way to keep it light too.

    Could take or leave a sequencer. Again lots of good sequencer options available, so it might be wotprth it to drop it. You can use ao many apps, atom 1 & 2, polybeat, Rozeta, octachron, Most drum apps, etc… maybe a simple step sequencer, but in my opinion it’s not necessary.

    I think there is a space for this, how large is yet to be seen, but I would definitely welcome it. Apps like Digistix 2 and Audiolayer can do multi-layered, but they are not exactly built for what you are proposing, and have different workflows. Koala is great but missing those deep velocity layers. I love to use the multiple velocities in Digistix 1 & 2 but they only provide 5 layers. I’m guessing going to 7 or 10 or 12 might increase CPU usage but it would be nice to have that option if needed. I have sample packs with drums up to 8-10-12 hits deep, so I have to split them up into 2 pads or only select a portion of them using DS2.

    That was way long… lol. Cheers.

  • Bulk load would be nice. Either 16 separate samples at once, to fill out all pads. Or how ever many velocity layers you have, say 8. You could select a pad and drop all 8 layers in at once.

  • Midi learn for midi controllers.

  • My ideal features wishlist is :
    Multi velocity layers
    Round robin
    Choke group
    Direct to disk sample reading large instrument could easily overload AUV3 memory limits
    Adsr
    Loop points with crossfade
    Midi mapping for adsr and in and out loop points.

  • Sitala is finally out for iPhone & iPad! ($4.99)
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sitala/id1605657678

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