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Storage Issues w/ iCloud and Chrome

I purchased the big Samples From Mars "Everything" sample pack awhile back and just decided to give the packages a listen.

Through my Chrome browser I went one by one downloading the sample packs, ranging anywhere from under 100MB to some pushing 4GB.

After each pack downloaded I would save them to my iCloud acct. After downloading the majority of the ones I wanted I checked the storage on my Air 3 (current OS version) and it was near full.

It had increased the iCloud local storage (an issue we've debated here before) which I expected and the Chrome app had 30GB of data. I figured no big deal, just delete the Chrome downloads since they were all saved to iCloud too.

Upon doing so the storage remained pinned at close to the 256GB limit. I double checked Chrome, rebooted the iPad, deleted & reinstalled Chrome, etc and the data remained at near capacity.

Like many of us said during the recent iCloud storage discussion thread here...

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/47886/icloud-the-great-apple-cover-up-restricting-icloud-s-use-of-your-ssd-is-impossible/p1

...the inability to control how much data iCloud caches on the SSD is a major hassle. They say the OS "knows" when to vacate local storage to provide more space but this situation shows it does not.

All of the sample packs I downloaded were in .zip files. So to use any I have to decompress them which adds more data to the location it's at (iCloud in my Documents app folder).

I don't know if the Documents app is another fly in the ointment but it's where most of my samples are stored. Before the Files app, the Documents app was a huge help in auditioning files and organization.

I know I could just delete all the sample packs but after the Chrome data not returning I'm feeling some trepidation to do that. Plus the Samples From Mars purchase allows you just 3 downloads per pack, so if you have a crash or accidentally delete something you have to watch that you don't go over the limit.

Sorry to drone on, just trying to be as thorough as possible. Anyone else had storage issues similar to this? I'd appreciate any insight, thanks...

Comments

  • Have you looked at Settings to see which what apps are using up all that space? Check recently Deleted Files to see what the story is there. It sometimes takes days for the OS to decide it is safe to remove iCloud files from the local cache.

  • @JRSIV said:
    I purchased the big Samples From Mars "Everything" sample pack awhile back and just decided to give the packages a listen.

    Through my Chrome browser I went one by one downloading the sample packs, ranging anywhere from under 100MB to some pushing 4GB.

    After each pack downloaded I would save them to my iCloud acct. After downloading the majority of the ones I wanted I checked the storage on my Air 3 (current OS version) and it was near full.

    It had increased the iCloud local storage (an issue we've debated here before) which I expected and the Chrome app had 30GB of data. I figured no big deal, just delete the Chrome downloads since they were all saved to iCloud too.

    Upon doing so the storage remained pinned at close to the 256GB limit. I double checked Chrome, rebooted the iPad, deleted & reinstalled Chrome, etc and the data remained at near capacity.

    Like many of us said during the recent iCloud storage discussion thread here...

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/47886/icloud-the-great-apple-cover-up-restricting-icloud-s-use-of-your-ssd-is-impossible/p1

    ...the inability to control how much data iCloud caches on the SSD is a major hassle. They say the OS "knows" when to vacate local storage to provide more space but this situation shows it does not.

    All of the sample packs I downloaded were in .zip files. So to use any I have to decompress them which adds more data to the location it's at (iCloud in my Documents app folder).

    I don't know if the Documents app is another fly in the ointment but it's where most of my samples are stored. Before the Files app, the Documents app was a huge help in auditioning files and organization.

    I know I could just delete all the sample packs but after the Chrome data not returning I'm feeling some trepidation to do that. Plus the Samples From Mars purchase allows you just 3 downloads per pack, so if you have a crash or accidentally delete something you have to watch that you don't go over the limit.

    Sorry to drone on, just trying to be as thorough as possible. Anyone else had storage issues similar to this? I'd appreciate any insight, thanks...

    Is there an option in Chrome to delete the cache? I doubt that will help if you deleted Chrome and didn't see the space come back, but maybe ...

    Have you emptied "recently deleted" from the files app?

  • @espiegel123 said:
    Have you looked at Settings to see which what apps are using up all that space? Check recently Deleted Files to see what the story is there. It sometimes takes days for the OS to decide it is safe to remove iCloud files from the local cache.

    @wim I’ve done that too my friend. As you can see in the screenshot iCloud has taken up serious space. What’s really troubling is that near the top of the list before was Chrome with like 30GB, so after deleting all downloads, checking trashes, recycle bins, the in app cache, browsing history etc anything I could find Chrome didn’t go down, I deleted it and reinstalled and the storage remained as is. Now Chrome is near the end of the app list, with 15MB or something…

    I don’t know. It’s frustrating.

  • Get rid of the apps you don’t use or at least offload them…

  • Chrome may, like Dropbox, have its own cache that didn't get purged when you deleted the downloads. Several weeks ago, I did some reorganizing of iCloud files and it took about a week for the OS to stop using local storage for them.

  • @anickt said:
    Get rid of the apps you don’t use or at least offload them…

    Offloading only removes the app binary. All the audio files etc—the bits that take up all the space—remain.

  • @mistercharlie said:

    @anickt said:
    Get rid of the apps you don’t use or at least offload them…

    Offloading only removes the app binary. All the audio files etc—the bits that take up all the space—remain.

    You’d be surprised at how big some apps are. They can go into several GB’s. If you’re trying to maximize your storage it can make a big difference to offload them.

    I have also gained a lot of storage space by being honest with myself about what I absolutely need to keep on my iPad. I know I will never use hundreds of drum kits and synth samples so what’s the point of taking up space with them? I’m using about 100 GB out of 128 GB on my iPad and I know I’ll never use a fraction of the samples included in that 100 GB.

  • edited December 2021

    The test I would do is to try and install/copy something to your device that would take you over the limit. If that works then iOS should hopefully have cleared out some of the iCloud cruft and was just holding on to the files for longer than it needed to.

    Edit: make sure auto offload is turned off first though as we don’t know if Apple prioritises its iCloud cache over installed apps!

  • @anickt said:

    I have also gained a lot of storage space by being honest with myself about what I absolutely need to keep on my iPad. I know I will never use hundreds of drum kits and synth samples so what’s the point of taking up space with them? I’m using about 100 GB out of 128 GB on my iPad and I know I’ll never use a fraction of the samples included in that 100 GB.

    I bought a a Samples from Mars essentials pack a while back, and most of it’s a huge waste of space. Most of the time I use the same two kits, sampled myself, or Drum Computer.

    I need to delete those wasted GB, and just keep them on an external drive.

  • @mistercharlie said:

    @anickt said:
    Get rid of the apps you don’t use or at least offload them…

    Offloading only removes the app binary. All the audio files etc—the bits that take up all the space—remain.

    Thank you @mistercharlie for pointing that out, I didn't want to come off like a dick and sound contrarian saying what you said but it's true. The entire reason Pure Synth looks so massive is the sample library; the app itself is less than 500MB.

    Bottom line is I like to have all my paints on the palette so to speak. So if I feel like trying something I can just go do it vs. reinstalling the app and downloading the samples off the cloud. It's the struggle we all have and the one real knock on iPad music production: the storage solutions are just atrocious.

    It used to bug me when Apple or the Android companies would release a device in S-M-L storage sizes so to speak, and the larger size would also get more RAM. But it's reasonable that with more storage, cache transfers, throughput, etc. the added RAM keeps it running smooth. Or it will entice those on the fence to jump up to the highest SSD capacity.

    I'm trying to work with what I have and not fall into the "I need an M1 Pro!" trip. Time marches on yeah, but the Air 3 has most of the balls the Pro's from just a few years ago had, the A12, etc. You'd think handling 20GB of samples wouldn't make it a paperweight.

  • @mistercharlie said:

    @anickt said:

    I have also gained a lot of storage space by being honest with myself about what I absolutely need to keep on my iPad. I know I will never use hundreds of drum kits and synth samples so what’s the point of taking up space with them? I’m using about 100 GB out of 128 GB on my iPad and I know I’ll never use a fraction of the samples included in that 100 GB.

    I bought a a Samples from Mars essentials pack a while back, and most of it’s a huge waste of space. Most of the time I use the same two kits, sampled myself, or Drum Computer.

    I need to delete those wasted GB, and just keep them on an external drive.

    @mistercharlie & @anickt you're both right. I wanted to go through them to cherry pick and then delete the rest. But sh*t, you're right, I know
    I've got 100GB+ worth of stuff I'll never really use...OCD is a bitch brother...

  • Option 1: Don’t worry about it. It will be purged.

    There’s no point in stressing about it as we just don’t have the tools to manage how iCloud Drive stores files offline. It is frustrating but the options are to either not worry or get stressed out about something we can’t change.

    Things are very different from the HFS days when it comes to free space though. APFS is far more complex and one of the ways this manifests itself is that the reporting of free space doesn’t make sense to us mere mortals. Due to the way clones are handled and backup snapshots etc., file space is like Schrodingers cat.

    It’s even more confusing on a mac as you can see more info and often space used in a drive + free space doesn’t = the volume size.

    The power user way of dealing with this is to not be a power user and just let it go. Which is frustrating. But it usually works. Let the OS sort it out. Hopefully we will be able to mark files as offline storage to purge them on device more easily in the future.

    If you want to try and force the issue, go into camera setttings and set the video format to maxed out. Then start filming a video. You might start seeing space cleared up depending on how much data the video codec devours. You shouldn’t even need to shoot a long video. In any case a deleted video would get purged when the space was required fairly snappily.

    Unfortunately that’s it. There aren’t any tools to ‘fix’ it and I find the best way of dealing with it is not to deal with it at all and not look at the stupid storage graph ever. Unless I get a message telling me I’ve run out of storage. Which hasn’t happened yet and I have 2Tb iCloud plan with over 500G stored.

    And lots of that is sample libraries I’ll never use. 🤣

    🐈 📦

    Option 2:

    Just stick the whole sample library on an external drive and copy what you need when you need it to iCloud Drive.

    I tend to do both.

  • Man thank you @klownshed That really helped. I lose the forest for the trees a lot, but you're right...let the OS do it's thing. It's really just too much of a Herculean task to seriously keep track of; I remember there used to be an AudioShare entry in the list of apps in the storage settings and now it's gone too.

    I'll breathe and take it slow...

  • @JRSIV . Remember that when you copy a file in iPadOS, a link is created to the original file (hardlink in Unix terms). So, copies do not take additional space. But, deleting the file in one app does not necessarily gain any space. The file only goes away when the last reference is deleted.

    Also, when you delete files, they seem to move to Other (System Data in iOS 15). So storage does not change immediately. You just have to wait for them to be actually purged. You pic doesn't show much System Data, so that's not likely a problem here.

    Did you check the Chrome entry in Files? That's where Chrome stores its downloads. You might be able to delete something there (and then from Recently Deleted, of course).

    You can check what's using iCloud under Settings–>yourName–>iCloud. The apps with enabled switches in the bottom block are using iCloud Drive. The Manage Storage link shows the sizes and can list the actual files. You might find that some other apps are using more iCloud than you think. And their data may be boosting the iCloud cache.

    I use Box for cloud storage and don't have these caching problems. But, I don't use the Box app to manage it. I use GoodReader for documents and FileExplorer Pro (similar to Documents) for other data. They can both access Box, once configured. This way, I can control exactly which files are on the iPad, no magical caching. Accessing iCloud Drive through a 3rd party app (not Files!) might help in your case.

  • edited December 2021

    @uncledave said:
    @JRSIV . Remember that when you copy a file in iPadOS, a link is created to the original file (hardlink in Unix terms). So, copies do not take additional space. But, deleting the file in one app does not necessarily gain any space. The file only goes away when the last reference is deleted.

    Also, when you delete files, they seem to move to Other (System Data in iOS 15). So storage does not change immediately. You just have to wait for them to be actually purged. You pic doesn't show much System Data, so that's not likely a problem here.

    Did you check the Chrome entry in Files? That's where Chrome stores its downloads. You might be able to delete something there (and then from Recently Deleted, of course).

    You can check what's using iCloud under Settings–>yourName–>iCloud. The apps with enabled switches in the bottom block are using iCloud Drive. The Manage Storage link shows the sizes and can list the actual files. You might find that some other apps are using more iCloud than you think. And their data may be boosting the iCloud cache.

    I use Box for cloud storage and don't have these caching problems. But, I don't use the Box app to manage it. I use GoodReader for documents and FileExplorer Pro (similar to Documents) for other data. They can both access Box, once configured. This way, I can control exactly which files are on the iPad, no magical caching. Accessing iCloud Drive through a 3rd party app (not Files!) might help in your case.

    Brilliant. That's sort of what I do with the Documents app & iCloud, but not with a different cloud storage app... I'm going to move in that direction. Thanks for the great insight @uncledave (coincidentally I really have 2 Uncle Dave's, lol. My Mom's brother and my Pop's brother)

  • @JRSIV said:
    Man thank you @klownshed That really helped. I lose the forest for the trees a lot, but you're right...let the OS do it's thing. It's really just too much of a Herculean task to seriously keep track of; I remember there used to be an AudioShare entry in the list of apps in the storage settings and now it's gone too.

    I'll breathe and take it slow...

    AudioShare should still be present in iPad Storage, if the app is installed. At minimum, it will show the space required to store the app itself. But the list is in decreasing order by size, so it can be a pain to find something when the size changes. (I wish they'd add a search option, or allow changing the sort order.)

  • @klownshed said:
    Option 1: Don’t worry about it. It will be purged.

    There’s no point in stressing about it as we just don’t have the tools to manage how iCloud Drive stores files offline. It is frustrating but the options are to either not worry or get stressed out about something we can’t change.

    Things are very different from the HFS days when it comes to free space though. APFS is far more complex and one of the ways this manifests itself is that the reporting of free space doesn’t make sense to us mere mortals. Due to the way clones are handled and backup snapshots etc., file space is like Schrodingers cat.

    It’s even more confusing on a mac as you can see more info and often space used in a drive + free space doesn’t = the volume size.

    The power user way of dealing with this is to not be a power user and just let it go. Which is frustrating. But it usually works. Let the OS sort it out. Hopefully we will be able to mark files as offline storage to purge them on device more easily in the future.

    If you want to try and force the issue, go into camera setttings and set the video format to maxed out. Then start filming a video. You might start seeing space cleared up depending on how much data the video codec devours. You shouldn’t even need to shoot a long video. In any case a deleted video would get purged when the space was required fairly snappily.

    Unfortunately that’s it. There aren’t any tools to ‘fix’ it and I find the best way of dealing with it is not to deal with it at all and not look at the stupid storage graph ever. Unless I get a message telling me I’ve run out of storage. Which hasn’t happened yet and I have 2Tb iCloud plan with over 500G stored.

    And lots of that is sample libraries I’ll never use. 🤣

    🐈 📦

    Option 2:

    Just stick the whole sample library on an external drive and copy what you need when you need it to iCloud Drive.

    I tend to do both.

    I do option #2

  • I’ve been through this. This has always been odd to me.

    Yup. iCloud stores some files locally (on device) for ease of access, and you can’t really dictate how it behaves.

    Once I’ve moved a download to audioshare, or an app, or an external drive, I clear out all of my downloads in the files app, the clear the recently deleted folder too.

    I would definitely recommend using an external hard drive or SSD. Smaller ones work without a powered usb hub, so you only need a camera connection kit.

  • Also in settings you can change where downloads from safari end up. I think it’s under the safari tab if memory serves. I sometimes change this between on device, iCloud, and external HD, depending on file size and where I want it.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    Chrome may, like Dropbox, have its own cache that didn't get purged when you deleted the downloads. Several weeks ago, I did some reorganizing of iCloud files and it took about a week for the OS to stop using local storage for them.

    It does.

  • If it's any consolation, I downloaded the full Samples from Mars set on my Mac, dragged them into my Samples folder in iCloud Drive, and it's still only half done syncing them a week later.

  • @drcongo said:
    If it's any consolation, I downloaded the full Samples from Mars set on my Mac, dragged them into my Samples folder in iCloud Drive, and it's still only half done syncing them a week later.

    I'm getting patience is in order with these SFM zips for some reason. I thought at first it was just the size of the file, trying to open/decompress a 2GB sample pack zip file would take forever. Then I tried an 85MB pack zip and it too just took a long time to open.

    One of the other things I'm trying to do is once I open up a zip file and have the pack accessable in it's own folder I upload the zip to an external cloud service and when saved in the cloud delete it from the iPad. I wouldn't bother but SFM has that download limit so if I lose one or something and am over the limit you're SOL.

  • @JRSIV said:

    @drcongo said:
    If it's any consolation, I downloaded the full Samples from Mars set on my Mac, dragged them into my Samples folder in iCloud Drive, and it's still only half done syncing them a week later.

    I'm getting patience is in order with these SFM zips for some reason. I thought at first it was just the size of the file, trying to open/decompress a 2GB sample pack zip file would take forever. Then I tried an 85MB pack zip and it too just took a long time to open.

    One of the other things I'm trying to do is once I open up a zip file and have the pack accessable in it's own folder I upload the zip to an external cloud service and when saved in the cloud delete it from the iPad. I wouldn't bother but SFM has that download limit so if I lose one or something and am over the limit you're SOL.

    If you happen to go over the download limit just contact them and they’ll take care of you.

  • @JRSIV said:

    @drcongo said:
    If it's any consolation, I downloaded the full Samples from Mars set on my Mac, dragged them into my Samples folder in iCloud Drive, and it's still only half done syncing them a week later.

    I'm getting patience is in order with these SFM zips for some reason. I thought at first it was just the size of the file, trying to open/decompress a 2GB sample pack zip file would take forever. Then I tried an 85MB pack zip and it too just took a long time to open.

    I suspect the problem is much more related to the large number of files (and maybe folders?) that need to be created during the unzip. Also, I'm a bit suspicious of the iOS built-in unzip used by Files. 3rd-party apps like Documents and File Explorer have their own implementations which might be more efficient.

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