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New Moog Animoog Z AUV3 Released!

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Comments

  • edited December 2021

    @PulseEmitter said:
    After playing with it I do have a question I couldn't find an answer to in the manual:
    What does the Z axis actually do to the sound? I picked a few of the new Timbres and did an experiment drawing a line on the "floor" of the box and in the same place up at the "ceiling" and it sounds identical, seems like it should sound different using the Z axis?

    Also wondering if the Z axis has an effect on legacy Timbres imported from old Animoog or only the new ones?

    The answer to the last question is yes, as the legacy timbres are exactly the same as the new timbres, at least as far as I can tell. The mapping is indeed described in the manual, in the 'understanding sounds and synthesis' section. It's a bit of a brain-warp until it clicks, but if you look at the diagram and then experiment with two or three obviously different timbres with the rest set to silence, it's not so hard to get your head around.

    In essence, the timbre landscape is still two-dimensional and when you create it in the timbres screen you're creating the X-Y map. This map is then repeated (reflected) in the X-Z dimension. There's a picture of this in the manual. If you imagine a comet in any given point in space, you can 'read' the sound it generates from the X-Y map or from the X-Z map. The sound that actually plays is a blend of these. If the point is moving, the sound changes smoothly between what you get from the X-Y map and the X-Z map.

    Incidentally, I wonder if this is where the high processing load comes from. In the original Animoog, the sound generated by each comet at any instant is generated from a blend of four separate cells in the timbre map, and this blend is constantly animated as the comet moves. In Animoog Z this process happens twice - once to get the X-Y sound, once to get the X-Z sound, and then there's a third step to blend the two. (And this is assuming there isn't some analagous cross-blending between different cells from each of the two layers rather than a simple morph!) Even without 16-note polyphony that's a lot more processing than Animoog!

  • wimwim
    edited December 2021

    @Zerozerozero said:
    They’ve swapped an IAA with low cpu for an auv3 that I would never use (and locked the buffer setting)

    Updated today to add buffer setting for iPhone too.

  • @wim said:

    @Zerozerozero said:
    They’ve swapped an IAA with low cpu for an auv3 that I would never use (and locked the buffer setting)

    Updated today to add buffer setting for iPhone too.

    Ah! Thanks for the heads up 👍🏻

  • THANK YOU!!!

    What a great pack of free presets.

  • edited December 2021

    how things work according to manual

    how things actually work

    (same for columns and waveforms)

    therefore
    . stay on horizontal lines to hear single timbre
    . sound doesn't change when moving across last row or column

    i suggest
    . removing last row/column so that animoog behaviour is constant across entire grid, or clearly explicit the different behaviour in manual
    . add "snap to grid" option so that it's easier to select single timbre/waveform and move exactly from one timbre/waveform to another timbre/waveform

    bye

    p.s.
    app is great

  • Thanks jonmoore and MarkH for the explanations of the Z axis (I missed that in the manual). I've got some experimenting to do :)

  • Never really explored the Acoustic timbres til now. Some very useful more percussive/bell-ish stuff in there.

  • @oat_phipps said:
    Never really explored the Acoustic timbres til now. Some very useful more percussive/bell-ish stuff in there.

    The Grateful Dead ones are great for happy accidents too.

  • @jonmoore said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    Never really explored the Acoustic timbres til now. Some very useful more percussive/bell-ish stuff in there.

    The Grateful Dead ones are great for happy accidents too.

    They are not available for purchasing any more

  • A bit late to the thread. For those who have been following it, has there been any mention of the MIDI Programme Change being buggy?

    It kinda worked the other day although it was jumping around out of order, but after installing recent update it doesn't appear to work at all.

    Cheers.

  • @Dante777 said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @oat_phipps said:
    Never really explored the Acoustic timbres til now. Some very useful more percussive/bell-ish stuff in there.

    The Grateful Dead ones are great for happy accidents too.

    They are not available for purchasing any more

    I was talking more to those that might already own GD IAP. The set of Timbres offers great creative possibilities beyond the presets.

    If I remember correctly, the GD IAP was only available for a relatively short time span.

  • @SpookyZoo said:
    A bit late to the thread. For those who have been following it, has there been any mention of the MIDI Programme Change being buggy?

    It kinda worked the other day although it was jumping around out of order, but after installing recent update it doesn't appear to work at all.

    Cheers.

    I have just tried mapping some PCs to pushbuttons on my BCR-2000, which works as expected. I don't have any previous experience of programme changes, but I had expected to need a bank selection as part of the message. This doesn't seem to be required.

  • Im having trouble batch importing user presets into the mac desktop standalone version, no probs on iPad but can't get it together on the mac, any tips?

  • @MarkH said:

    @SpookyZoo said:
    A bit late to the thread. For those who have been following it, has there been any mention of the MIDI Programme Change being buggy?

    It kinda worked the other day although it was jumping around out of order, but after installing recent update it doesn't appear to work at all.

    Cheers.

    I have just tried mapping some PCs to pushbuttons on my BCR-2000, which works as expected. I don't have any previous experience of programme changes, but I had expected to need a bank selection as part of the message. This doesn't seem to be required.

    Thanks Mark.

    It didn't seem to require any mapping initially on the previous version.

    I'll see if it crops up in their fix list on next update. Cheers.

  • Has anyone figured out the Z axis yet? The manual describes this here.

    However, three interesting things:

    1) The description of the XZ plane seems to mean that everywhere on the "bottom" of the Z axis, Timbre1 would be active for the XZ plane. But converted Animoog OG patches don't have Timbre1 mixed in everywhere. Is there maybe a sort of Timbre0 which is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre at the bottom of the XZ plane?

    2) At the "top" of the XY view, there seems to be some variation of timbres as you move Z up. But at the bottom of the XY view (in the space where you access Timbre 8 in the XY plane), there is virtually no variation as you move Z up, you can't access all of the timbres in the XZ plane. I think this might be a bug messing up the sound of Animoog Z down there, do other people get this too?

    3) I agree with @uunniooploop that there isn't wrapping in the cell mixing (when you have orbs at the right edge for instance). This is stated in the manual near the graphic showing the cell mixing. But AFAIK this wouldn't be possible if you keep backward compatibility with Animoog OG, since Animoog OG didn't do this wrapping at the right edge (and also not at the bottom).

  • @circledsquare said:
    Has anyone figured out the Z axis yet? The manual describes this here.

    However, three interesting things:

    1) The description of the XZ plane seems to mean that everywhere on the "bottom" of the Z axis, Timbre1 would be active for the XZ plane. But converted Animoog OG patches don't have Timbre1 mixed in everywhere. Is there maybe a sort of Timbre0 which is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre at the bottom of the XZ plane?

    2) At the "top" of the XY view, there seems to be some variation of timbres as you move Z up. But at the bottom of the XY view (in the space where you access Timbre 8 in the XY plane), there is virtually no variation as you move Z up, you can't access all of the timbres in the XZ plane. I think this might be a bug messing up the sound of Animoog Z down there, do other people get this too?

    3) I agree with @uunniooploop that there isn't wrapping in the cell mixing (when you have orbs at the right edge for instance). This is stated in the manual near the graphic showing the cell mixing. But AFAIK this wouldn't be possible if you keep backward compatibility with Animoog OG, since Animoog OG didn't do this wrapping at the right edge (and also not at the bottom).

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

  • @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    The behaviour of the Z-Axis is going to vary depending on the blend created by the Orb at it's position on the X/Y plane. And the timbral mix will vary greatly depending on which wavetables are chosen in each of the 8 Y Timbre slots.

    From that point, what the Z-Axis position does depends on how you have configured it on the Mod page. If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

  • This was in the manual if its any help. The visual helped me at least think I understand it a bit

  • @jonmoore said:

    @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

    Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

  • @MarkH said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

    Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

    My bad, I hadn't seen that graph from the manual above.

  • edited December 2021

    @jonmoore said:

    @MarkH said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

    Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

    My bad, I hadn't seen that graph from the manual above.

    I must admit that I’ve spent most of my time translating my bespoke Animoog presets to Animoog Z so I haven’t spent a lot of time with the Z-Axis. But having thought about it a little more since you pointed out my misinterpretation, I’d love to see an option where the Z-Axis performs as I stated.

    Mirroring the Y-Axis Timbres along the Z-Axis feels a little messy. Being able to use the Z-Axis strictly as a modulation source seems to me to be a more controllable option. A lot of my bespoke Timbres use a base Timbre that’s then processed in Wavelab with a variety of modular processors such as filtering and wavefolding modules. The idea is to gradually alter the base timbre to provide altered harmonics for filtering in Animoog Z. The base character of the original Timbre can still be heard but its shifts in harmonic content make for very expressive presets.

    My biggest disappointment in Animoog Z is that Moog didn't use the opportunity to improve on the Filter modeling (it's not as good as the filter in Model D or Model 15). But you can create richer timbral changes when creating the Timbre wavetables. I was inspired to use this approach by the Animoog 'Monster Moog' and 'Minimoog Model D' IAPs. These sound exceptionally good as true analog facsimiles, and when you add the MPE playing approach, they're also unique, going beyond mere facsimiles.

  • @jonmoore said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MarkH said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

    Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

    My bad, I hadn't seen that graph from the manual above.

    I must admit that I’ve spent most of my time translating my bespoke Animoog presets to Animoog Z so I haven’t spent a lot of time with the Z-Axis. But having thought about it a little more since you pointed out my misinterpretation, I’d love to see an option where the Z-Axis performs as I stated.

    Mirroring the Y-Axis Timbres along the Z-Axis feels a little messy. Being able to use the Z-Axis strictly as a modulation source seems to me to be a more controllable option. A lot of my bespoke Timbres use a base Timbre that’s then processed in Wavelab with a variety of modular processors such as filtering and wavefolding modules. The idea is to gradually alter the base timbre to provide altered harmonics for filtering in Animoog Z. The base character of the original Timbre can still be heard but its shifts in harmonic content make for very expressive presets.

    My biggest disappointment in Animoog Z is that Moog didn't use the opportunity to improve on the Filter modeling (it's not as good as the filter in Model D or Model 15). But you can create richer timbral changes when creating the Timbre wavetables. I was inspired to use this approach by the Animoog 'Monster Moog' and 'Minimoog Model D' IAPs. These sound exceptionally good as true analog facsimiles, and when you add the MPE playing approach, they're also unique, going beyond mere facsimiles.

    Sounds like cool presets/timbres! I always wondered why the Minimoog Model D presets sound so great, if you know more details, please do tell. I'd like to try just mixing in one additional timbre beyond what Animoog OG can do. I'm planning to use Timbre 1 for this since it is at the bottom of the XZ plane. (Or near the bottom if the bottom is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre)

  • edited December 2021

    @MadGav said:

    @circledsquare said:
    Has anyone figured out the Z axis yet? The manual describes this here.

    However, three interesting things:

    1) The description of the XZ plane seems to mean that everywhere on the "bottom" of the Z axis, Timbre1 would be active for the XZ plane. But converted Animoog OG patches don't have Timbre1 mixed in everywhere. Is there maybe a sort of Timbre0 which is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre at the bottom of the XZ plane?

    2) At the "top" of the XY view, there seems to be some variation of timbres as you move Z up. But at the bottom of the XY view (in the space where you access Timbre 8 in the XY plane), there is virtually no variation as you move Z up, you can't access all of the timbres in the XZ plane. I think this might be a bug messing up the sound of Animoog Z down there, do other people get this too?

    3) I agree with @uunniooploop that there isn't wrapping in the cell mixing (when you have orbs at the right edge for instance). This is stated in the manual near the graphic showing the cell mixing. But AFAIK this wouldn't be possible if you keep backward compatibility with Animoog OG, since Animoog OG didn't do this wrapping at the right edge (and also not at the bottom).

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    That sounds like what happened for me at the bottom of the XY plane, but I was over to the right (in the bottom right corner) too. Glad to hear that you can reproduce this. Edit: I started near the bottom right, with Z=0, then changed the axis to Z and swept Z, and got this behavior.

  • edited December 2021

    hi,

    some bugs

    . custom timbres overwrite doesn't work: any change will be discarded (even if opening the timbre editor will show the modified timbre)

    . sine lfo graphic display is wrong: lfo starts at center (0), not at minimum (-1)

    some suggestions

    . there's not a single numeric value in the entire interface; some may like it but it certainly makes programming harder

    . in left view, moving finger in y direction will move cursor in x direction and viceversa; this is really counterintuitive, especially on a touch screen

  • @circledsquare said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MarkH said:

    @jonmoore said:

    @MadGav said:

    On point 2 I messed around with the left XZ (I think) view and at X=0 moving up the Z axis produced a full sweep, but further along the X axis the starting point in the Z sweep is further and further through the sweep so at X=max there is no timbral change.

    If you haven't configured to Z position as a Source on the Mod page the Z position won't do a thing.

    Not sure how you reached that conclusion?

    My bad, I hadn't seen that graph from the manual above.

    I must admit that I’ve spent most of my time translating my bespoke Animoog presets to Animoog Z so I haven’t spent a lot of time with the Z-Axis. But having thought about it a little more since you pointed out my misinterpretation, I’d love to see an option where the Z-Axis performs as I stated.

    Mirroring the Y-Axis Timbres along the Z-Axis feels a little messy. Being able to use the Z-Axis strictly as a modulation source seems to me to be a more controllable option. A lot of my bespoke Timbres use a base Timbre that’s then processed in Wavelab with a variety of modular processors such as filtering and wavefolding modules. The idea is to gradually alter the base timbre to provide altered harmonics for filtering in Animoog Z. The base character of the original Timbre can still be heard but its shifts in harmonic content make for very expressive presets.

    My biggest disappointment in Animoog Z is that Moog didn't use the opportunity to improve on the Filter modeling (it's not as good as the filter in Model D or Model 15). But you can create richer timbral changes when creating the Timbre wavetables. I was inspired to use this approach by the Animoog 'Monster Moog' and 'Minimoog Model D' IAPs. These sound exceptionally good as true analog facsimiles, and when you add the MPE playing approach, they're also unique, going beyond mere facsimiles.

    Sounds like cool presets/timbres! I always wondered why the Minimoog Model D presets sound so great, if you know more details, please do tell. I'd like to try just mixing in one additional timbre beyond what Animoog OG can do. I'm planning to use Timbre 1 for this since it is at the bottom of the XZ plane. (Or near the bottom if the bottom is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre)

    The easiest way to see the way this works is to go to the Timbres page and select the tags labelled MINIMOOG and MONSTER MOOG (if you have both preset packs). What you'll see is a group of timbres named eg MMDPulse3HiRes1, MMDPulseHiRes2, up to HIRes5 in that particular instance. The resonant filter sweep is hardcoded to the wavetables of the timbres, but as the timbres are blended they have a natural movement. Because of the richness in the harmonic content hardcoded in the timbres, it doesn't matter that Animoogs own filter isn't as good as Model D or Model 15's. With just a little non-resonant filter modulation from the Animoog filter, you can achieve something which sounds very authentic with regards to the source hardware, but with far more movement than with standard sampling techniques.

  • My biggest disappointment in Animoog Z is that Moog didn't use the opportunity to improve on the Filter modeling (it's not as good as the filter in Model D or Model 15). But you can create richer timbral changes when creating the Timbre wavetables. I was inspired to use this approach by the Animoog 'Monster Moog' and 'Minimoog Model D' IAPs. These sound exceptionally good as true analog facsimiles, and when you add the MPE playing approach, they're also unique, going beyond mere facsimiles.

    Sounds like cool presets/timbres! I always wondered why the Minimoog Model D presets sound so great, if you know more details, please do tell. I'd like to try just mixing in one additional timbre beyond what Animoog OG can do. I'm planning to use Timbre 1 for this since it is at the bottom of the XZ plane. (Or near the bottom if the bottom is hardcoded to the SILENCE timbre)

    The easiest way to see the way this works is to go to the Timbres page and select the tags labelled MINIMOOG and MONSTER MOOG (if you have both preset packs). What you'll see is a group of timbres named eg MMDPulse3HiRes1, MMDPulseHiRes2, up to HIRes5 in that particular instance. The resonant filter sweep is hardcoded to the wavetables of the timbres, but as the timbres are blended they have a natural movement. Because of the richness in the harmonic content hardcoded in the timbres, it doesn't matter that Animoogs own filter isn't as good as Model D or Model 15's. With just a little non-resonant filter modulation from the Animoog filter, you can achieve something which sounds very authentic with regards to the source hardware, but with far more movement than with standard sampling techniques.

    I see, that makes sense. I tried using low pass and high pass filters in some of my timbres, but these were very basic filters I think. I created a couple of presets combining the built in resonant low pass filter with a standard high pass filter that I like, they are probably marked hpf or similar (in the presets and timbres I released). I don't have a linux command line (where I mostly work) resonant filter that is "good" AFAIK. Although I actually don't know what "good" means here. But maybe audacity includes one? I much prefer command line batch processing though.

  • questions

    . in front and left default view part of the grid is outside the screen: why?

    . in front view, when x/y axis edit mode is selected, nodes can only be moved in x axis;
    in left view, when x/y axis edit mode is selected, nodes can only be moved in y axis;
    either something is broken or the x/y axis label is misleading

    suggestions

    . instead of auto (?), x/y and z axis edit mode, what about x, y and z switches? movement is only allowed for selected axe or axis combination (eg. y and z)

  • I swear a few days ago I was recording MPE expressions in Atom 2, and reliably playing them back, but for some reason I cannot get this to work today. Did something change?

    I do have MPE enabled under the MIDI out settings, and I’m using AUM as the host.

  • @Edward_Alexander said:
    I swear a few days ago I was recording MPE expressions in Atom 2, and reliably playing them back, but for some reason I cannot get this to work today. Did something change?

    I do have MPE enabled under the MIDI out settings, and I’m using AUM as the host.

    Atom 2 has so far not worked well capturing and playing back Animoog Z’s keyboard output.

  • edited December 2021

    How about imaginando’s LK? I am about to buy the matrix, but I made a simple test, figured out how to record from AZ to LK, and just recorded a few bars of random notes and sliding on AZ keyboard, and LK records the notes and CC84, which is... portamento? I didn’t see any pitch bend but I run out of time. I’ll have try again later. Anyway, it didn’t playback the same, but maybe I did something wrong.
    Does anyone know if it works in this scenario?

    Edit: wait, I perhaps didn’t choose a good preset on animoog. Should be one with “glide”. I bought the matrix iap on LK already (was going to, regardless), and I suspect it will work with the right preset.
    And another thing I think I did wrong was I recorded only one channel. For mpe to be captured it must record all channels cause it takes one per voice, right?
    Gonna try again later but I have great hopes.

    But I still have this question:
    “ I must be really dumb, but where is the map CCs button that overlays the numbers on animoog? Can’t find it anywhere...”

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