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Download on the App StoreAudiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.
iCloud - the great Apple cover-up. Restricting iCloud’s use of your SSD is impossible.
So, Apple deleted my post on their forum website, declaring it was a ‘poll or a petition’. They said it was for ‘technical questions’. The implication being, my point did not have technical content or was trying to survey people or something.
But I was not. I wanted an answer to the simple question, but you cannot even formualte the question until you know the answer I am afraid…OK let’s start at the beginning:
THE QUESTION that got my post censored from Apple’s community forum:
How can I limit Apple iCloud’s appetite for using my device’s storage area?
I mean, Apple’s ‘gurus’ or whatever with 100,000 points etc, could just have said ‘you cannot it’s an all-powerful AI and not even we can stop it’. Ok, maybe that’s unpalatable.
How about ‘pointless trying - get yourself a big cheap portable hard drive of 8Tb for £100 on Amazon, and call it good’.
No?!
Well, As my post advanced, and the evidence got more and more damning, Apple just had enough. They certainly didn’t believe I was trying to poll or anything - they have no answer, cos iCloud is a load of tosh.
My local storage on ipad pro 2, is almost entirely gobbled up by iCloud, the free space is down to about 20Gb from 512Gb total, and iCloud has upped it’s grip to 85Gb.
I put pictures on and everything. They really hated that post.
So I am not here to ask a question - I am here to warn you off iCloud. If you want to prove this to yourself, just take a wadge of music files, and copy them to iCloud. Say 100Gb.
Now delete the originals in your local SSD. - NO don’t do this, really don’t.
But, DO watch what iCloud does over the next couple of hours or day or so. It will do it, while you are not looking. No really - ‘when locked and plugged in’. Translation, when you are not looking.
That blue band will take over at LEAST 100Gb on your local device.
That’s right - Apple is selling iCloud renters, THEIR OWN SPACE. Haha. You’re not laughing.
The truth hurts, and Apple have no answer. If you think that my assertion Apple’s iCloud literally chucks back at your device, everything you physically try to transfer to it, try that test I gave above. You will wish you hadn’t. I do.
Get a big cheap local portable hard drive! Thank me later. Use iCloud only for dinky stuff like the auto backups of your device. Half a terabyte, tops probably, maybe a whole Tb, but you’ll be sorry, eventually.
My best, keep well.
Ian aka ‘richard getts’ on itunes, spotify etc.
Comments
Holy frijoles!
It's cacheing - so that you don't have to download every single file every single time you open it. By the same token, local files are removed when space is needed, and you have to download them again even though they were previously cached. It is typical of Apple that they don't give you any control over those decisions. Would be nice though, since there are more times I've been in situations where a file I wanted wasn't cached and I didn't have internet access than the other way around.
But yeh, you don't want to use iCloud for massive storage of everything, certainly not to free up room on your device. iCloud is best for things you want seamlessly available across devices.
TBH, I don't recall ever seeing iCloud touted as a way to free up space on your device (other than for photos). Maybe I missed that. Or maybe that was just an assumption on the OP's part.
It behaves as I expect it (and other cloud software) to behave, and I don’t think there’s any conspiracy to hide anything on the part of Apple.
I use iCloud to store samples so they're available to my mobile and desktop devices. I knew how it caches locally before I decided on iCloud as my preference and haven't had any local storage issues up to now. Prior to this I tried Microsoft OneDrive which was a far more painful experience on an iPad - sample files couldn't be loaded in many music apps as they weren't available 'locally' and had to be 'downloaded' first using the OneDrive app.
I don't buy in to a huge Apple conspiracy even if iCloud isn't perfect - in the absence of anything that works better for my specific needs I'll stick with it for now.
I have always viewed iCloud as a backup service which allows me to share items across devices.
It will only back up what’s actually on my devices.
This news doesn’t shock me at all.
Does it give the space back once the disk gets close to being full, similar to how apps are automatically offloaded as you begin to run out of space with the option enabled? If it does then for me that is not a problem and shows iOS is making efficient use of currently unused local storage as a cache.
Another test would be if your iCloud was using 50GB locally and you had only 500MB left - would the file system refuse to copy a 600MB file to the local device, or would it know that actually there is room for the 600MB file as it just needs to delete some cached files first? If the latter then again no problem.
I agree with what wim said though, it would be helpful to have more control over what was cached and when.
iCloud does what it’s supposed to, but I see a lot of people misunderstanding that you can’t open a file from the cloud without downloading it first.
Just think of iCloud Drive as local storage that backs up to the cloud. This works wonders for me as I can access files from multiple devices. All of my devices have less storage than my iCloud plan yet it all works fine. I never bother looking at the storage stats for my phone. I’ve never needed to. APFS reports things strangely due to how clever it is with things like cloning delta extents where multiple cloned files all report themselves as full size when they’re not actually taking up full storage.
The OS will try and sync whatever files it thinks you’ll use (and is a bit dumb so will get this wrong) but it all gets sorted out in the wash and unneeded stuff will be offloaded fairly aggressively when space is required. But you don’t get granular control.
As for the OP; Ask a civil question if you want a civil answer. I think once you’ve entered the conspiracy theory sinkhole you are just after having your biases confirmed and get treated accordingly.
On iOS iCloud Drive is a necessity and works really well especially for photos.
On desktop Dropbox dropped the ball. They have superior syncing but their app is bloated and eats up RAM and CPU voraciously and gets worse every year.
2TB for £6.99 is actually priced competitively which is pretty rare in the Apple-verse.
Dropbox recently dropped an update that fixes excessive battery drain. It has made a HUGE difference on my old iPhone 7s , which I had assumed was just finally dying.
iCloud works exactly how I would expect it to work and has been flawless for me. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
I always knew the Audiobus forum was nothing more than an Apple propaganda arm. 😂
Long live the cover up!
That’s good to know, I wish I could try it but Dropbox took away access to the app when I upgraded my phone. I’ve removed Dropbox from every device I have but I can’t get it back on iOS. I could probably work out a way to get my slot back without upgrading from my free plan but I’ve replaced Dropbox with iCloud now so that ship has sailed.
It’s a shame though as I would have switched to Dropbox 2TB tier if their Mac app wasn’t so bad and getting worse (and more focussed on things I will never need like teams). Dropbox is better than iCloud at actually keeping a folder in sync.
"Cloudgate"
We should flex our muscle and see if we can influence the next Russian election.
Oh, that’s a lot more interest than I expected. Well, there’s some people who are keen to rubbish, cast aside or simply suggest or imply what I am saying, what I have found is not true.
So, for those who do not believe that iCloud shoves everything you try to specifically move onto it, right back to your local iOS device, with respect, please do everyone else the courtesy and thoroughness, by doing the test I outlined. Simply, pick on a 100Gb of music or video files and choose to ‘move’ these to the iCloud - as if you were short of space on your device (you can save video as ‘files’ as you’ll know, different to simply leaving it in the photos folder).
That’s a ‘peer review’. Can’t be fairer, I have no control over your own individual experiments in this line of enquiry, and no responsibility either.
And once you have done the exercise, and deleted the originals from your device (because that’s the point), you’ve got to give it about 2 or 3 episodes of some series on TV, then return. Now to be clear, I made a folder completely outwith all the Apple folders - so it’s not underneath say GarageBand folder on the iCloud. It’s in what we might call the ‘root’.
All very humdrum stuff - it doesn’t get more basic, than moving a wadge of files (even if iOS makes you ‘copy’ them). It really is the most fundamental of exercises, in the world of IT. You run out of local space, down to your last 100Gb say of the 512Gb SSD on your Apple iPad, and want to ‘hive off’ a suitable chunk of stuff, for safekeeping.
So, do the test with your Apple iOS device - because I am not talking about Apple Macs, or MacBooks, to be clear and specific. There’s no guarantee they are treated the same as iOS devices. I know nothing at all about the Apple Mac, I only have Apple iOS devices.
I have no idea why some people are suggesting that somehow this would not be a ‘correct’ use of the iCloud, for example. That they only use the iCloud ‘the way it was intended to be’. This surely, is an admission, it’s pretty weird, and has exactly the surprising not to mention damaging and crippling modus operandii I stated (to your apps trying to run while ‘negotiating’ with iCloud).
Why would moving some files off your mobile device, with unbelievably expensive SSD memory on it you must buy at the point of sale, or cannot ever buy later, be NOT a ‘correct’ or ‘proper’ way to utilise the iCloud? Why is putting files on the iCloud directly, manually, verboten? That’s really quite odd.
250Gb or so of SSD is about £100 on the iPad? Maybe more. I bought 3 off, 128Gb SD cards that do 130Mb/s for £35 total just last week. So, that prices Apple SSD resource at TEN times the price of other memory. I know we can argue about exactly what type of memory it is equivalent to, but let’s not. It’s deathly expensive, is the point. Why on earth would any user, willingly let the iCloud, hog a fifth or a half of their precious SSD? Why would a vendor expect them to?
And still, there is no answer to the question: ‘How can I limit the iCloud’s excessive use of an iPad’s SSD?’ Or, you could also put in there, a PC’s SSD. I know this for a fact, because I had to call Apple support in the USA and got to 3rd line support, whereupon the question was asked of me ‘I fI tell you the solution involves deleting all these music files you saved on the iCloud, you’re not gonna like it, are you?’
No, I said, I really am not. And yet, that’s what I had to let him do. How’s that for the opposite of what a user wants iCloud to do.
TOTALLY alright with another point of view, but don’t insist that moving files to a large off-site cloud storage facility you pay for, is somehow not the correct manner to use that facility. And if you wish to suggest that the phenomenon of iCloud hogging SSD on an iPad is baloney (Bologne if you prefer), then please do the test and take some screenshots. I have.
Also, if wishing to suggest that a ‘conspiracy theory’ is how my experience is best described, I have to ask why.
I have on three occasions now, had my PC and/or iPad, choked up due to the iCloud’s determination to fill my hard-paid-for local storage with whatever. I say whatever, because there’s no way for me to tell what it is. I don’t believe it’s any use at all, the 100Gb of files I shoved on the iCloud, getting a copy shoved reflexively right back to my local storage. Do you?
Does anyone think there’s anything wrong, with using the icloud to store files you don’t have room for locally (I’ve 1.3Tb free on the iCloud, and as I speak, only 400Gb of my iPad is occupied with my files or apps I chose to have there. There’s about 100Gb of blue band/iCloud, then there’s some narrow stripes of other stuff, and about 5Gb or so - a sliver - at the end of that, that is free space on my iPad for me to use. wonderful, not.)
Lastly, I’ll drop a word about some people online on youtube, praising iCloud to the skies. One guy loves it, and couldn’t think of anything negative to say it seems - 246k views. This guy must really know his stuff?! No, he’s five minutes in then admits he uses a huge local SSD storage (it’s physically small though) for ‘…that kind of storage…’ I don’t know exactly what kind of task it was, but that seems perfectly alright, except in the context of bigging up a storage facility.
I think, iCloud is perfectly wonderful for backing up a mobile Apple device. I know because I have had to update some people at work, when their PC gets too old. It’s a dog. My daughter, did the replacement of an Apple iphone HERSELF, and she knows lots about medical care, and nothing about cloning disk drives.
So, there. I thought of something that iCloud does perfectly well.
I don’t like people rubbishing my point of view, hard-earned and caused by what I see happening. IE facts. Nobody here, who has criticised my statement, seems to be able to answer the question posed. If the answer is, that Apple thought nobody would want to hive files off their expensive local SSD to a cloud facility, that’s preposterous. I don’t believe nobody thought of it at Apple.
Anyway, if you are sceptical, first, it’s not a ‘conspiracy theory’ if when you put factual reporting with pictures to back it up, of the storage disaster iCloud caused, on the apple forum.
A corporate, covering up defects in its products? I think I’ve heard of that happening. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s actions taken to halt bad press. I don’t think it goes as deep as conspiracy.
Second and last, I didn’t have a fun time finding this out. I didn’t want to find this out. I wanted a solution to the shortage of local storage on my iPad Pro 2 that cannot be upgraded from 512Gb of SSD. That’s Apple’s choice.
To give iCloud a set of rules, or an algorithm that causes it to ‘react’ to certain user actions like this, is also Apple’s conscious choice.
Now to Apple - gimme my SSD back. And no, I am not calling Apple support to get told I need to delete the files I wanted to shove onto iCloud for safekeeping.
I can’t talk of other cloud products out there - if you’ve found some are worse than Apple’s iCloud, I believe you. I can’t see that changes anything about Apple’s iCloud, or the basic question: How can I limit iCloud’s use of my precious local SSD storage on my mobile device? Please, pretty please and a bow on top. The iCloud has 1.2Tb free space, I have paid for, and yet, urgently decides it still has to throw the 100Gb of files I put onto my paid-for iCloud space, right back onto my local SSD in a way that I cannot see the files, or access them. The ‘blue band’ iCloud area.
I wish you all well. I just really wish I’d bought the massive portable SSD that guy espousing the super nature of iCloud did!
Take care, keep safe, try the file-moving/copying test if sceptical. I’d love to know if you get a different result. PS, no, if you are willing to be polite and believe my experience, please don’t try the test. Only sceptics or rude people should try it. Because it’ll just do to you what it did to me.
So long for now, keep safe and be well.
irm/rg
I only have 5GB of iCloud storage so for me it's a non issue...
...and well macOS clears out 'cached' iCloud files (and other cached files) when the space is needed for other things.
It's like the RAM usage, what good is 16GB's of RAM if it's not used? (ie. the system caches often used files in RAM and wipes them when it's needed for something else).
I'm not sure anyone here is disputing the outcome of your experimentation. What you are describing is how iCloud works and there is nothing we here can do about that.
In my opinion iCloud can keep as much as my SSD as it likes for its caching as long as it gives it back when I need it, if it does not then that's where I get my pitchfork out. If I have 100GB left on my device then I'm not using it so Apple can do what they want with it. If I also have 50GB of cached iCloud data and I want to copy 125GB of data onto my iPad then the cache better make way for this new data otherwise I will again be reaching for my pitchfork. Those are the only two experiments I care about.
Apple have their own caching heuristics which will be written for a number of use cases and will try and balance these. This includes the person who offloads a load of their music and then goes on a journey when they decide that actually they did want to listen to that song that they offloaded. As if by magic the song is still there!
I agree that it would be good for the "power user" to have more control over the behaviour as we all get a bit nervous to see the available GB going down, but unless that causes actual rather than perceived problems then then I'm not that bothered.
To the OP - I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to prove, but it seems to me that people on this forum know what the limitations of icloud are, and have some understanding of how icloud based files may be stored locally on a device until space is required and then 'offloaded'. In some ways, maybe a little more control could be useful, but I'm happy with what I've got especially at the price I'm paying (I remember when services like Dropbox started and the much higher prices they were charging for capacity). Don't be offended by what you see as criticism - accept that people won't necessarily share your views and move on...
Question about Dropbox, if that's okay.
I've a 2GB free account. Any reason why the Dropbox app was taking over 8GB of space on my iPad? After deleting the app, all that space was freed up. Thanks.
If you start a thread complaining of a ‘great cover up’ you should expect to be treated like the sort of person that thinks everything is a great cover up. To come up with that as the conclusion to the issues you’ve had is quite a leap.
If you want a rational conversation that would be great. A lot of people here would be interested in any issues with iCloud and how they can be worked around if possible. And a perfectly reasonable debate would ensue.
But if you already ascribe malicious intent behind the results you see it’s hard to have a rational discussion.
There’s no point in being upset that not everybody thinks apple are trying to get one over on us by selling us our own storage. And we’ve explained, reasonable clearly, why iCloud is behaving the way it is.
It you just want an ‘apple are evil’ rant where everybody agrees with you, you’ll find plenty of eager participants at Facebook. Where biases go to be confirmed.
I understand that it’s frustrating when things don’t work they way you think they should, and there’s a perfectly reasonable debate to be had as to how iCloud works and where it is lacking.
But Its hard to take a question seriously when it’s wrapped in hyperbolic accusations.
And if you’re having posts deleted elsewhere, perhaps take a step back and think what other explanations there are for that, rather than assume it’s part of some great cover up.
+1
It's interesting that the OP's YouTube video outlining the same 'great cover up' has comments disabled - presumably too many viewers disagreed...?
I have iCloud+, we’re happy with it, it just works
Was the 8 GB listed under Dropbox in iPad Storage? Because, if not, what you saw might just be a reduction in "Other", or "System Files" in iPadOS 15.
The Dropbox iOS app has a cache bug. For some people, the cache grows and grows and can far exceed the size of the files in the Dropbox. When this happens one has to delete the app and reinstall. Using the cache clearing in the app seems not to work.
There is no cover-up of iCloud Drive. It sounds like a misunderstanding about how it is intended to function. It isn’t intended to function like a traditional file server or external hard drive. If one wants to have control of when files offload, iCloud is simply not the right service to use.
Exactly @espiegel123. You either accept iCloud to work like Apple wants it to, or you don't use it at all.
Um … Apple manages your iCloud/ local storage for efficiency. Sure , I guess it ‘decides’ what that means and what data gets prioritized but what’s wrong with using a portion of empty storage space on a local device if you aren’t using it?
I have way more data on iCloud than available storage on my phone/pad but there’s always space for new stuff. So iCloud doesn’t just grab everything. For photos it keeps low res copies on device until you open one for viewing or editing. ( you can choose to store full res if you want per device). Not sure how else it could work…
There’s also some control of what kind of data auto magically uses iCloud. It’s not very granular but it’s there.
This is a nerdy topic for sure, but there’s no ‘cover up’.
(Without getting in to the fundamental argument going on here): I think maybe what one wants to do if they want to save things to iCloud without iCloud taking up the local storage space would be to log out of one’s iCloud account/Apple ID, after uploading whatever they need to to iCloud (and deleting the original, local copy) no?
I know that’s probably not ideal as some other things won’t work unless one is logged in to their account (including big things like automatic Cloud Backup), but I’m guessing that a log out will free up most of the local storage that iCloud indeed was using up. Then when one needs to log back in, I’m guessing also that most of that space will still be available until one starts downloading previously uploaded files from iCloud (though saving new files will keep doing the “take up both local and iCloud storage” thing for new uploads until one logs out once again), no?
If I’m right, then that’s a workaround perhaps. A big hassle for sure, but one that lets one definitely “reclaim” the storage space each time?
For me this "workaround" has worked. I've had to log out of iCloud for some different reason. this deletes all locally cached files and now any file I used is downloaded again, the rest seem to stay in the cloud. This is the only possibility to "delete" files locally that you backed up into the cloud.The downside is, that you can't select which files to keep, it's all or nothing. I'm not aware icloud would then download these files again until you actually use them again for the first time. But maybe that's different for photos or media that are in places like the photo reel etc. and not saved in a folder in icloud.
No, what you did is very different from what you think you did. The OS just changed the allocation of the files you "moved into the cloud". It likely didn't even create duplicates of these files when you copied them into the cloud, just added another "pointer"/path towards the same file. The OS keeps the local copy of anything you "move into the cloud", because you don't move anything into the cloud, you just let iOS make a cloud backup of these files, they obviously remain on your device. The OS didn't delete and then re-download these files, it simply changed the path that leads to these files.
Yes, under Settings>General>iPad Storage>Dropbox was using 8gb+.
Thanks. Funny how they're reusing the same version history notes over the past 7 months.
Okay, back to original programing. Here's a real conspiracy - Papa Johns Pizza doesn't make their dough in-store, instead they have the crust delivered to each store pre-made in small, medium, large, and extra-large sizes. They often run out of large and extra-large pies, so their solution is to stretch out a smaller pie to make the bigger, more expensive one that their customers order. They've been doing this for decades in many different locations in the States, even though the pie shrinks when cooked and becomes very thin. Okay okay, sorry for the interruption.
Thanks for this post, it reminded me to change my payment method for my google one storage before the payment date, which is today lol
Also, fuck iCloud.