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sEGments Sonic time-stretch test with Cubasis 3 and BM3

edited September 2021 in General App Discussion

Hi everyone, i just uploaded a video in which, i test how sEGments new time stretch algorithm sounds compared to Cubasis 3 (elastique pro ) and BM3.
I used a 137 BMP sample which, i stretched to 200 BPM, 90 BMP, 70 BPM & 40 BPM.
Cubasis with pro auto time stretch.
sEGments with Pro ativated , Hi quality and normal mix.
BM3 with live stretch on.

I also made a comparison between sEGments Pro and Non pro algorithms, using the same sample and BMP above stated.

The video includes time stamps in the description so you can flip back and forth between each app sound test.

I concluded that sEGments pro algorithm does a good job, especially at high BMP but struggled to catch up with CB3 and BM3 at lower BPMS. It has however improved a lot.
Thanks Elliott Garage

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Comments

  • Cubasis 3 does a fine job of stretching audio and that is why I'm still longing for the Cubase Sampler Track to be added to Cubasis 3 at some point in time...

    Thanks for making the comparison video :sunglasses:

  • edited September 2021

    @Samu said:
    Cubasis 3 does a fine job of stretching audio and that is why I'm still longing for the Cubase Sampler Track to be added to Cubasis 3 at some point in time...

    Thanks for making the comparison video :sunglasses:

    Yes, it does, agreed.. …And when it gets a sampler track a d can mix time signatures, I’ll be all in.
    @Lars

  • edited September 2021

    @Paa89 said:
    Hi everyone, i just uploaded a video in which, i test how sEGments new time stretch algorithm sounds compared to Cubasis 3 (elastique pro ) and BM3.
    I used a 137 BMP sample which, i stretched to 200 BPM, 90 BMP, 70 BPM & 40 BPM.
    Cubasis with pro auto time stretch.
    sEGments with Pro ativated , Hi quality and normal mix.
    BM3 with live stretch on.

    I also made a comparison between sEGments Pro and Non pro algorithms, using the same sample and BMP above stated.

    The video includes time stamps in the description so you can flip back and forth between each app sound test.

    I concluded that sEGments pro algorithm does a good job, especially at high BMP but struggled to catch up with CB3 and BM3 at lower BPMS. It has however improved a lot.
    Thanks Elliott Garage

    Thanks.. how about pitch shift?

    Edit.. bought the iPad already..
    Does Cubasis do Pitch Shifting?

  • Yes, Cubasis 3 does both pitch-shifting and time-stretching.

  • @Samu said:
    Yes, Cubasis 3 does both pitch-shifting and time-stretching.

    Ok.. thanks..

  • @Paa89 Good comparison, thanks!

  • @Telstar5 said:

    @Samu said:
    Cubasis 3 does a fine job of stretching audio and that is why I'm still longing for the Cubase Sampler Track to be added to Cubasis 3 at some point in time...

    Thanks for making the comparison video :sunglasses:

    Yes, it does, agreed.. …And when it gets a sampler track a d can mix time signatures, I’ll be all in.
    @Lars

    @LFS

  • I would absolutely love it if Cubasis had a 'tape mode' or linear interpellation mode. Basicly just standard speed change that also changed the pitch. Often this works best for percussion and drums for me. Plus I often like to take sounds and just double or halve the speed to get a nice clean octave shift without all that smearing and blending introduced by stretch algorithms.

    Also, not sure exactly if this fits or not with this particular test scenario but I have found in BM3 and Cubasis (and also on various desktop programs) that sometimes depending on the sound I am stretching (and if pitching is also involved) that the 'low quality', 'efficient', 'mobile' etc algorithms can often sound more appropriate than the 'Pro' or high quality settings. It is always best to just let your ears decide what is working.

  • The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

  • edited September 2021

  • The pro/high quality settings for most apps smears the transients, hence why good old fashioned beats mode in Ableton is best for most rhythmic stuff where you’re not shifting too far up or down. Weirdly the new sEGments hi-quality algo sounds like it’s doing something similar to beats mode as well as time stretching. You get that weird semi amplitude-modulation warble that you get with beat warped audio.

  • @Samu said:
    Cubasis 3 does a fine job of stretching audio and that is why I'm still longing for the Cubase Sampler Track to be added to Cubasis 3 at some point in time...

    Thanks for making the comparison video :sunglasses:

    You are welcome.
    Cubasis 3 is at the top for me. but sometimes i do think that BM3 sounds clean.
    Sampler track would be a great addition although sEGments does most of the work for me.
    what would be really interesting while we wait (Dream) for sampler track, is if Steinberg made it possible to drag and drop audio from timeline to and from audio units. that would really simplify and velocities work flow.

  • @Telstar5 said:
    @Paa89 : Thanks!!

    you are welcome 😊

  • @Pierre118 said:
    @Paa89 Good comparison, thanks!

    Thanks for watching ☺️

  • @AudioGus said:
    I would absolutely love it if Cubasis had a 'tape mode' or linear interpellation mode. Basicly just standard speed change that also changed the pitch. Often this works best for percussion and drums for me. Plus I often like to take sounds and just double or halve the speed to get a nice clean octave shift without all that smearing and blending introduced by stretch algorithms.

    Do you have an example of this?

    Also, not sure exactly if this fits or not with this particular test scenario but I have found in BM3 and Cubasis (and also on various desktop programs) that sometimes depending on the sound I am stretching (and if pitching is also involved) that the 'low quality', 'efficient', 'mobile' etc algorithms can often sound more appropriate than the 'Pro' or high quality settings. It is always best to just let your ears decide what is working.

    interesting point, I’ve never paid attention to this.
    Let me give it a test and get back to you.

  • @Paa89 said:

    what would be really interesting while we wait (Dream) for sampler track, is if Steinberg made it possible to drag and drop audio from timeline to and from audio units. that would really simplify and velocities work flow.

    Yeah, direct integration, GarageBand already does this (ie. drag any audio to a track with the GB Sampler on it), but it doesn't yet automagically render midi to audio like Logic does on the Desktop.

    As for Cubasis 3 vs. BM3, it's more to do with the internal mixing engine as they both use the same Elastique libraries for the stretching as far as I know.

    Time will tell where things go with Cubasis 3, it's almost 2 years 'old' already :)

  • @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

  • @Paa89 said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I would absolutely love it if Cubasis had a 'tape mode' or linear interpellation mode. Basicly just standard speed change that also changed the pitch. Often this works best for percussion and drums for me. Plus I often like to take sounds and just double or halve the speed to get a nice clean octave shift without all that smearing and blending introduced by stretch algorithms.

    Do you have an example of this?

    just what you get when you adjust tune in BM3 and have live stretch disabled.

  • @jonmoore said:
    The pro/high quality settings for most apps smears the transients, hence why good old fashioned beats mode in Ableton is best for most rhythmic stuff where you’re not shifting too far up or down. Weirdly the new sEGments hi-quality algo sounds like it’s doing something similar to beats mode as well as time stretching. You get that weird semi amplitude-modulation warble that you get with beat warped audio.

    I did miss it at first, I had to watch the video with my earbuds after your comment to notice the warbler.
    Does the transient smear also happen with Cubasis?

  • @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.

  • edited September 2021

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.

    speaking of Koala, has there been any news in regards to auv3 support?

  • @Samu said:

    @Paa89 said:

    what would be really interesting while we wait (Dream) for sampler track, is if Steinberg made it possible to drag and drop audio from timeline to and from audio units. that would really simplify and velocities work flow.

    Yeah, direct integration, GarageBand already does this (ie. drag any audio to a track with the GB Sampler on it), but it doesn't yet automagically render midi to audio like Logic does on the Desktop.

    As for Cubasis 3 vs. BM3, it's more to do with the internal mixing engine as they both use the same Elastique libraries for the stretching as far as I know.

    Time will tell where things go with Cubasis 3, it's almost 2 years 'old' already :)

    Time will tell indeed 😊.
    Do you know of any iOS DAW which allows you to drag audio from it’s timeline into an AUv3 and vice versa ?

  • @Paa89 said:

    Time will tell indeed 😊.
    Do you know of any iOS DAW which allows you to drag audio from it’s timeline into an AUv3 and vice versa ?

    As far as I know that is not currently possible due to the sandboxing restrictions.

    It is however possible to drag from the Files.app slide-over/split-view to an AUv3 plug-in so as long as the hosts files are visible thru the Files.app they can be dragged onto an AUv3 plug-in.

    The 'project structure' in Cubasis is quite deep so in order to find the audio-event from project on the Cubasis time-line using the Files.app one needs to dig deep into the project folder.

    So yeah, you could drag audio files that are on the time line to say sEGments once you navigated to the correct folder in Files.app :sunglasses:

  • edited September 2021

    Del

  • @Paa89 said:

    @jonmoore said:
    The pro/high quality settings for most apps smears the transients, hence why good old fashioned beats mode in Ableton is best for most rhythmic stuff where you’re not shifting too far up or down. Weirdly the new sEGments hi-quality algo sounds like it’s doing something similar to beats mode as well as time stretching. You get that weird semi amplitude-modulation warble that you get with beat warped audio.


    I did miss it at first, I had to watch the video with my earbuds after your comment to notice the warbler.
    Does the transient smear also happen with Cubasis?

    It’s the nature of the beast with any real-time time stretch algorithm I’ve come across but some are definitely better than others and Cubasis is amongst the best on iOS but Cubasis misses a lot of the key features that an app like BM3 when it comes working with samples in a free-flow way. Hight quality real-time time stretching is a victim of attempting to please all of the people all of the time, in other words it’s not a specialist agorithm suited to a particular use case such as percussion loops (the classic use case for the lower quality algorithms such as the various beat warp based engines). You can get offline time stretching that’s kinder to transients but that’s not relevant to an app like sEGments.

  • @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.


    speaking of Koala, has there been any news in regards to auv3 support?

    If you click on ‘Edit’ to edit a sample there will be the option to purchase the Samurai IAP (if memory serves right, it’s been a while).

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.


    speaking of Koala, has there been any news in regards to auv3 support?

    If you click on ‘Edit’ to edit a sample there will be the option to purchase the Samurai IAP (if memory serves right, it’s been a while).

    Samurai IAP doesn’t include Koala as an AUv3.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.


    speaking of Koala, has there been any news in regards to auv3 support?

    If you click on ‘Edit’ to edit a sample there will be the option to purchase the Samurai IAP (if memory serves right, it’s been a while).

    Samurai IAP doesn’t include Koala as an AUv3.

    Huh. There was a comment asking how to access the IAP but it seems to be gone now.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Paa89 said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    The new algorithm is a big improvement over the old one, but for slowing things down more than a little BM3, Koala, Cubasis, Blocswave, Auria Pro and Zenbeats are preferable in my opinion.

    @ElliottGarage has done a pretty good job with this update. But you are right it’s need improvement with lower BPM.
    Maybe we should crown fund sEGments and purchase high end algorithms 😊

    I figure the IAP -- is to fund such development. @elf_audio managed to figure out a method that is in the same league as the best of the apps on iOS -- all of which perform pretty well compared to Ableton Live for an awful lot of material.


    speaking of Koala, has there been any news in regards to auv3 support?

    If you click on ‘Edit’ to edit a sample there will be the option to purchase the Samurai IAP (if memory serves right, it’s been a while).

    Samurai IAP doesn’t include Koala as an AUv3.

    Yeah, but use it as FX in the Master.....then Koala SHINES!

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