Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Zenbeats is just magic

Hi!

When I first tried Zenbeats I was not impressed at all. The user interface was slow, clunky and hard to understand. The sounds of the onboard synths sounded dull. I couldn’t understand why NU-TRIX liked it so much.

So I continued jumping between AUM/BM3 and Cubasis 3. But a couple of weeks ago I decided to give Zenbeats a try again. Loaded in a couple of AUv3s and started jamming. I noticed that everything just sounded "good" and the cpu was just chillin at 25%.

So lately I’ve jumped in to Zenbeats more and more and I’m completely amazed by how good it sounds every time I use it. Everything just glues together so nicely. Even when I’m not serious at all, like I’m just going to test this new AUv3 plugin in ZB I end up with a track that I really like.

It has even gone to the point that I tried to replicate the same jams in BM3 and Cubasis3 to see if they produce the same feeling. The difference is huge! ZB just delivers.

I really can’t understand what ZB does to the tracks, it’s like magic. I’m just curios if anyone else has experienced this?

However, the UI is still kinda bad. When zooming in the note-editor it feels like I’m using a 8 years old android tablet. But if it sounds this good, I can live with that 😊

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Comments

  • edited June 2021

    The newer ZC1 sounds are top notch - as good as anything on iOS and the range of sounds is comprehensive enough to give you everything you need. The original 'stagelight' sounds aren't so good and personally I avoid using them. It's my DAW of choice but the MIDI editor needs significant improvements. You can't quantise note ends for example, which is pretty basic functionality.

  • Sounds great but runs like absolute trash on my 2017 iPad pro. Like the simplest 4/4 kick pattern crackles like crazy, I couldn't believe it really lol

  • Kept crashing on me when brining in audio and terrible sample management. Loved it for few months but had too many hard resets and moved away from it. Lots of potential. Probably best daw for sounds and usable presets

  • edited June 2021

    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.
    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.
    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.
    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)
    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

  • @tahiche said:

    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,

    This is the biggest issue for me. I've been experimenting with Atom 2 and Helium instead which works but there's no visual representation of the MIDI notes which puts me off the idea a bit

  • @charalew said:

    @tahiche said:

    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,

    This is the biggest issue for me. I've been experimenting with Atom 2 and Helium instead which works but there's no visual representation of the MIDI notes which puts me off the idea a bit

    Yeah, and you have to change the Atom2 patterns with notes in Zenebats midi. Which means having 2 places where things happen , then your head explodes… I began doing that and I believe it was Wim that said it wasn’t worth it, and I agree. I’m not a piano player or do very intricate midi compositions.
    Now if you could output midi to multiple destinations it’d be worth it. Have one instance of atom2 and do all the midi right there, separating instruments by channel.

  • @Timespare So lately I’ve jumped in to Zenbeats more and more and I’m completely amazed by how good it sounds every time I use it.

    This is interesting… I think we’ve all felt like something just sounds better, when in theory it shouldn’t… I mean given a track with the same plugins in Zenbeats or any other daw like Cubasis, they should sound exactly the same. Right?. Or not?. Cos I feel the same, but then convince myself that it’s just my biased perception.

  • @tahiche said:

    @Timespare So lately I’ve jumped in to Zenbeats more and more and I’m completely amazed by how good it sounds every time I use it.

    This is interesting… I think we’ve all felt like something just sounds better, when in theory it shouldn’t… I mean given a track with the same plugins in Zenbeats or any other daw like Cubasis, they should sound exactly the same. Right?. Or not?. Cos I feel the same, but then convince myself that it’s just my biased perception.

    I assumed @Timespare was talking about Zenbeats built-in sounds but maybe not?

  • @tahiche said:
    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.
    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.
    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.
    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)
    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    Great post!!! @MatthewAtZenbeats needs to see this

  • @tahiche said:
    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.
    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.
    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.
    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)
    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    A big drawback for me is the inability to send CC and program changes

  • Best Zenbeats thread EVER!

  • Zenbeats would really be magic if it could record and overdub incoming MIDI CC, with automatic detection / lane creation. Then I could fully integrate my external synths and use it live.

  • @tahiche said:
    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.
    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.
    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.
    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)
    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    I’ve not used ZB since I got an iPad 8 / CB3 early this year… but I thought ZB does have group tracks (and multi-out support)?

  • @soundshaper said:
    Zenbeats would really be magic if it could record and overdub incoming MIDI CC, with automatic detection / lane creation. Then I could fully integrate my external synths and use it live.

    There’s a lot of confusion and different approaches to automation and midi mapping. I think by trying to make it simpler they actually make it more complicated, and this isn’t just Zenbeats.
    Automation and mapping should let you know what’s happening… which I think ties up with your comment. If I want to automate a synth cutoff, for example, that should be a CC. One that I can see and change. Not “move your controller” and assign it under the hood. In Drambo and AUM for example, you can see and edit the cc’s. There’s ways to make it easier, automatic, or whatever but I’m the end…
    Synth cutoff is assigned to CC 48, my knob in my controller outputs Cc 48. I should have an automation lane for cc48 and all other cc’s if I want to. Not “move a knob, I’ll do it all for you but you can’t see or change what’s happening”.

  • @tahiche said:

    @soundshaper said:
    Zenbeats would really be magic if it could record and overdub incoming MIDI CC, with automatic detection / lane creation. Then I could fully integrate my external synths and use it live.

    There’s a lot of confusion and different approaches to automation and midi mapping. I think by trying to make it simpler they actually make it more complicated, and this isn’t just Zenbeats.
    Automation and mapping should let you know what’s happening… which I think ties up with your comment. If I want to automate a synth cutoff, for example, that should be a CC. One that I can see and change. Not “move your controller” and assign it under the hood. In Drambo and AUM for example, you can see and edit the cc’s. There’s ways to make it easier, automatic, or whatever but I’m the end…
    Synth cutoff is assigned to CC 48, my knob in my controller outputs Cc 48. I should have an automation lane for cc48 and all other cc’s if I want to. Not “move a knob, I’ll do it all for you but you can’t see or change what’s happening”.

    I think I was spoiled by Cubase from the beginning. You just twiddle any hardware knob while recording on a MIDI track and it creates a new CC automation lane. Just about as easy and logical as it gets. And Steinberg’s been doing it this way for 20 years.

  • Hi @tahiche
    As always thank you for the detailed info on your experience and things you find could be better. While a lot fo the feature requests you listed are in consideration, I'd love to get more info on areas of UI and touch interaction that give you trouble. @tahiche said:

    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.

    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.

    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.

    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)

    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats said:
    Hi @tahiche
    As always thank you for the detailed info on your experience and things you find could be better. While a lot fo the feature requests you listed are in consideration, I'd love to get more info on areas of UI and touch interaction that give you trouble. @tahiche said:

    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.

    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.

    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.

    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)

    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    The bottom scroll bar conflict with the annoying Apple multitask bar, so it’s really tricky to scroll the timeline.
    Not the U.I. But the lack of external midi cc and program change send is really annoying.
    Hope it’ll be addressed soon.
    Thanks for taking time readings and listening to the requests in this forum.

  • @charalew said:

    @tahiche said:

    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,

    This is the biggest issue for me. I've been experimenting with Atom 2 and Helium instead which works but there's no visual representation of the MIDI notes which puts me off the idea a bit

    Xequence 2?

    For me still king in this regard!

  • @tja said:

    @charalew said:

    @tahiche said:

    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,

    This is the biggest issue for me. I've been experimenting with Atom 2 and Helium instead which works but there's no visual representation of the MIDI notes which puts me off the idea a bit

    Xequence 2?

    For me still king in this regard!

    I've got it. Prefer to interact with the notes directly rather than use buttons at the side and bottom but that's just personal preference. Main thing though is that Xequence 2 isn't AU...

  • edited June 2021

    @MatthewAtZenbeats said:
    Hi @tahiche
    As always thank you for the detailed info on your experience and things you find could be better. While a lot fo the feature requests you listed are in consideration, I'd love to get more info on areas of UI and touch interaction that give you trouble. @tahiche said:

    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.

    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.

    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.

    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)

    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I feel bad for the way I phrased some of my comments. Thanks for dropping by and being open to suggestions and (hopefully constructive) criticism.
    About the UI… id have to go through and do a detailed list of things that don’t feel right. I’d be happy to do it!. Here’s some general examples.

    • Touch: some things are hard to “grab”. Like the little top arrows in the audio loop points and section editing, where they also overlap.
    • General looks: although I do dig the “retro” looks, it’d be nice to have some more control. Like color for tracks, etc. Also possibility of having a “flat” look with (again colored) background in tracks. For example, having a transparent background is not friendly when zoomed out and the tracks are small. Since you already incorporate themes maybe it’d be a matter of expanding on that, further options or even better, opening it up to user contributions. Atom2 does that very well via standard CSS. Like I said, I do like the “retro” look, reminds me of a hardware drum machine or even a Digitakt. But I can see how it can be offputing to others, being able to customize it would please more users and let them decide.

    UX/UI stuff:

    • If audio source is shown on top for audio, the instrument should be source for midi (instead of generic midi). It should be on top, not under “plugins”. This is just an example of places where things seem to “change position”.
    • Long presses: they are just not user friendly. Like the “add midi plugin” (which should be under plugins). Since you don’t know where there’s a long press you end up, specially at the beginning, long pressing everything trying to find stuff. Can be frustrating.
    • IMO there’s too many pop ups. Like with long presses, pop ups make you look around more. For example the “monitor” button… it’s hidden in a popup with no visual indicator, so I always leave it on and get feedbacks.
    • The above could be put as “less menus and more visual clues”.
    • Editing in the arranger, again has pop ups for copy, paste, split and so on. 2 problems here. There’s no visual indication that there’s a submenu under the “arrow/select” icon and these very common functions shouldn’t be in a submenu anyway… Thise are way more useful in everyday use than, say, the cpu meter.

    These are just some random pointers and many obviously based on personal taste, but I do think Zenebats would greatly benefit from a little makeup. I’d be happy to be more specific if you want and send you a list or something… Thanks for listening and for making the best daw even better!.

  • @charalew said:
    I assumed @Timespare was talking about Zenbeats built-in sounds but maybe not?

    Nope, I use a lot of external AUv3s but also the built in sounds. Especially the drums witch are crazy good.

    However, it would make more sense if ZB sounded good with only built in sounds that are meant to fit together. Like the app Groovebox for example, it's almost impossible to get it to sound really bad but it has other limitations. And same with Korg Gadget 2.

    @tahiche said:

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development.

    This worries me too..

  • This thread got me to reinstall Zenbeats on my iPhone SE, and I suddenly remembered how much I poke at the screen trying to make things happen.

    I’d like to see more light themes. Most of the themes currently look very similar, and my eyes don’t like dark themes these days.

    I know it’s a powerful DAW, but I’d love to see it get a UI overhaul someday. With ZC-1, the sounds just keep in getting better.

  • @tahiche said:

    @MatthewAtZenbeats said:
    Hi @tahiche
    As always thank you for the detailed info on your experience and things you find could be better. While a lot fo the feature requests you listed are in consideration, I'd love to get more info on areas of UI and touch interaction that give you trouble. @tahiche said:

    Zenbeats is my daw of reference, there’s nothing more straightforward and fast than Zenbeats clip mode. Unbeatable. Doesn’t get in the way and helps creativity.
    But like you say the UI kind of sucks and there’s some bad omissions.
    Some pros and cons…

    Pros:

    • great clip mode, can’t live without a clip mode now. Liberating to it think about what goes where, just play.
    • one of the best drum sequencers, plugin or daw. Extensive parameter editing and randomizing, more than DigiStix, Octachron, MidiDreams… and a lot more accesible and faster than Drambo. With unique features like Velocity jitter.
    • Great onboard sounds. Both drum samples as well as zen sounds.
    • Good stock fx. Glitch6 is crazy good.
    • Timestreching… Is it going?. You can’t even tell it’s happening, it’s so straightforward and transparent.
    • working with loops in the arranger. It’s actually loops, not copies of a loop. A must.
    • Mix knob on plugins!. You get a wet/dry for everything. Why isn’t this everywhere?

    Cons:

    • UI is not optimal. And I don’t mind the design, which I actually like. It’s the finger feel, handles in the editor, long presses for everything (argggh), in general it feels klunky.

    • These UI shortcomings mean I don’t use it much to mix. Not pleasing, like @Timespare says, sort of feels like an 8 year old android tablet.

    • no “probability” control on the drum sequencer. Hard to explain why you’d have so many features and not this basic one.
    • no group tracks, no side chaining. Cubasis took a big leap on this one. Badly needed.

    • Related to the above, no midi on insert effects (midi guitar, a vocoder…)

    • Also related, more audio routing flexibility (groups, buses, selecting another track as input…).
    • Midi editor is too basic and doesn’t feel great,
    • Loads of little bugs. Like problems when freezing, loops points that are not respected.
    • Wish the midi mapping was better. The parameter page for plugins is weird, only Cc for transport and daw functions…

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development. I saw no point in using Cubasis until the last 3.5 update. But right now Cubasis is better to mix and finish a song.
    Cubasis would need a clip mode, a drum sequencer, loops in the arranger, a Swiss army ZC1…
    Zenbeats needs group tracks, sidechaining, routing and better UI.
    I’d say Zenbeats is a lot closer.

    @MatthewAtZenbeats I feel bad for the way I phrased some of my comments. Thanks for dropping by and being open to suggestions and (hopefully constructive) criticism.
    About the UI… id have to go through and do a detailed list of things that don’t feel right. I’d be happy to do it!. Here’s some general examples.

    • Touch: some things are hard to “grab”. Like the little top arrows in the audio loop points and section editing, where they also overlap.
    • General looks: although I do dig the “retro” looks, it’d be nice to have some more control. Like color for tracks, etc. Also possibility of having a “flat” look with (again colored) background in tracks. For example, having a transparent background is not friendly when zoomed out and the tracks are small. Since you already incorporate themes maybe it’d be a matter of expanding on that, further options or even better, opening it up to user contributions. Atom2 does that very well via standard CSS. Like I said, I do like the “retro” look, reminds me of a hardware drum machine or even a Digitakt. But I can see how it can be offputing to others, being able to customize it would please more users and let them decide.

    UX/UI stuff:

    • If audio source is shown on top for audio, the instrument should be source for midi (instead of generic midi). It should be on top, not under “plugins”. This is just an example of places where things seem to “change position”.
    • Long presses: they are just not user friendly. Like the “add midi plugin” (which should be under plugins). Since you don’t know where there’s a long press you end up, specially at the beginning, long pressing everything trying to find stuff. Can be frustrating.
    • IMO there’s too many pop ups. Like with long presses, pop ups make you look around more. For example the “monitor” button… it’s hidden in a popup with no visual indicator, so I always leave it on and get feedbacks.
    • The above could be put as “less menus and more visual clues”.
    • Editing in the arranger, again has pop ups for copy, paste, split and so on. 2 problems here. There’s no visual indication that there’s a submenu under the “arrow/select” icon and these very common functions shouldn’t be in a submenu anyway… Thise are way more useful in everyday use than, say, the cpu meter.

    These are just some random pointers and many obviously based on personal taste, but I do think Zenebats would greatly benefit from a little makeup. I’d be happy to be more specific if you want and send you a list or something… Thanks for listening and for making the best daw even better!.

    These are great! Thank you!

  • @Timespare said:

    @charalew said:
    I assumed @Timespare was talking about Zenbeats built-in sounds but maybe not?

    Nope, I use a lot of external AUv3s but also the built in sounds. Especially the drums witch are crazy good.

    However, it would make more sense if ZB sounded good with only built in sounds that are meant to fit together. Like the app Groovebox for example, it's almost impossible to get it to sound really bad but it has other limitations. And same with Korg Gadget 2.

    @tahiche said:

    I’m somehow frustrated cos Zenebats seems to have “slowed down” the pace of development.

    This worries me too..

    I hear you but fret not. Nothing is slow here on the development side. We've just been busy with some large backend tasks that are setting the groundwork for future releases. Stay tuned.

    @ahallam said:
    This thread got me to reinstall Zenbeats on my iPhone SE, and I suddenly remembered how much I poke at the screen trying to make things happen.

    I’d like to see more light themes. Most of the themes currently look very similar, and my eyes don’t like dark themes these days.

    I know it’s a powerful DAW, but I’d love to see it get a UI overhaul someday. With ZC-1, the sounds just keep in getting better.

    Been using an iphone SE sized screen for testing/design purposes. There are lots of improvements that can be made. These are not going unnoticed.

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats you've probably seen my comments but is adding Quantising the ends of MIDI notes in the sequencer view on the roadmap? It's a pretty essential feature for a MIDI editor IMHO :)

  • @charalew said:
    @MatthewAtZenbeats you've probably seen my comments but is adding Quantising the ends of MIDI notes in the sequencer view on the roadmap? It's a pretty essential feature for a MIDI editor IMHO :)

    Noted

  • @MatthewAtZenbeats said:

    @charalew said:
    @MatthewAtZenbeats you've probably seen my comments but is adding Quantising the ends of MIDI notes in the sequencer view on the roadmap? It's a pretty essential feature for a MIDI editor IMHO :)

    Noted

    Thanks - much appreciated!

  • Zenbeats was my hope for an Ableton alternative.
    Or a descent clip launcher.
    So much to improve until it’s convenient and flexible for the general users.

  • wimwim
    edited June 2021

    @Tamir_Raz_Mataz said:
    So much to improve until it’s convenient and flexible for the general users.

    I must not be a general user then cuz I find it convenient and flexible, and a very good clip launcher.
    sigh ... back to the woodshed I guess.

  • @wim said:

    @Tamir_Raz_Mataz said:
    So much to improve until it’s convenient and flexible for the general users.

    I must not be a general user then cuz I find it convenient and flexible, and a very good clip launcher.
    sigh ... back to the woodshed I guess.

    Convenient and flexible like Ableton.

    Just basic stuff like convert clip to Audio. Route bus so Auv3 can be recorded to Audio.

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