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The Nightmare that is a Reality
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The essay I quote from came from the New York Times in 1944, it was written by Arthur Koestler who knew some things that were going on in Germany that no-one would believe.
"...At present we have the mania of trying to tell you about the killing, by hot steam, mass-electrocution and live burial of the total Jewish population of Europe. So far three million have died. It is the greatest mass-killing in recorded history; and it goes on daily, hourly, as regularly as the ticking of your watch. I have photographs before me on the desk while I am writing this, and that accounts for my emotion and bitterness. People died to smuggle them out of Poland; they thought it was worth while. The facts have been published in pamphlets, White Books, newspapers, magazines and what not.
But the other day I met one of the best-known American journalists over here. He told me that in the course of some recent public opinion survey nine out of ten average American citizens, when asked whether they believed that the Nazis commit atrocities, answered that it was all propaganda lies, and that they didn’t believe a word of it. As to this country, I have been lecturing now for three years to the troops and their attitude is the same. They don’t believe in concentration camps, they don’t believe in the starved children of Greece, in the shot hostages of France, in the mass-graves of Poland..."
And why am I quoting this? Because I have just been listening to a discussion between 3 people, one an evolutionary biologist, one a doctor, and also the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology. Yes, the INVENTOR of the technology. So he's worth at least listening to a little. And the title of that essay might be relevant to some things that are happening today. This story is about the failure of systems, not evil plans.
Sometimes things turn out to be true that you wish weren't, and which it will cost you to believe. Ridicule comes with that territory. This is an in-depth scientific discussion, reflecting on a lot of things that are wrong with our systems that you probably don't know about.
Just remember, if you were around in 1944 you probably would have thought the holocaust was something like a conspiracy theory.
Comments
sending blessings…
microsite for the essay: https://wethescreamers.com/
/(made by people around The Portal podcast hosted by brother of the host of the podcast in OP)
(The graph in the video needs some interrogating)
And a concern, for me at least: the Shoah - and the obscene blindness to it at the time, and since - just isn’t a fungible simile/metaphor/symbol.
A slight word of warning...
I used to really enjoy listening to Bret (and Heather) but i am slightly concerned by their maverick — and possibly socially irresponsible — decision to reject covid vaccines in favour of ivermectin. History may eventually prove them right, of course, but I do wish they had chosen to debate the issue without revealing to their listeners that they had chosen to take ivermectin as a covid prophylactic for their whole family.
My concern - in a nutshell - is that they are being seduced away from balanced, objective scientific enquiry into a new role as the internet superstars of heterodox science.
Sadly, they seem to gradually get more and more click-baity lately, and their guests are far more one-sided lately than they used to be.
I feel the metaphor in the original post diminishes the horror of the holocaust by using it in a barely relevant way to attract attention.
Agreed. I’ve heard more than one fool use the Nazi’s yellow stars as a metaphor for PPE masks…for fucks sake.
In my humble opinion, the MSM also has a one-side view about covid treatment. People with good counter-arguments are ignored mostly, so these people are forced to seek alternative ways to make a statement. It seems the whole world get more polarised as time goes on, and don't blame the people. It's the (social) mechanics behind the people.
Refrained from further posting in relation to this entire subject over a year ago, when it became apparent how easily some knees were jerked. Most, quite understandably, really don’t like looking fully into the darkness. As we enter into a situation where certain parties are now calling, as expected, for a form of medical segregation, the metaphor is more relevant than ever. Many see it as a lesson which has been consigned to history but it’s never really gone away ... Aadhaar & DBT in India, Uyguhrs in China, etc.
I think it’s imperative that all views are made available, with the understanding that they be met with the critical thinking that has become so rare. Because bare assertions, and even those assertions based on thoughtful argumentation by those with bona fides in a given field have zero merit if not based in science.
And the anti vax arguments I’ve heard are based on junk science if not absolute nonsense. The methodology behind the graph presented in the video, even the graph itself, doesn’t surmount those minimums as presented.
Medical segregation as you call it is a necessary and effective protocol for containing contagion. Conflating that measure with Asdhaar (voluntary) is strange at best. Unless you’re also including driver’s licenses and passports in your vision of the darkness. I’m mystified by your mention of India’s Direct Benefit Transfer program here. You’re talking about a government sponsored direct deposit of social subsidies into needy citizens accounts… I admit I don’t understand how this is evidence of a dark agenda. I’m lost on this one but my knee might be jerking here. And yes the Uyguhrs face genocide as did the Jews. Genocides aren’t metaphors for vaccination cards, or social distancing. They aren’t metaphors for anything.
This. 👏 Also, while decidedly a non-scientific approach, IMHO it's good practice to dismiss, out of hand, any argument that attempts to use the vaccination/holocaust analogy. Life is too short for some of the stuff out there, it's okay to take reasonable shortcuts.
Are these closeted libertarians? I don't understand what the fuzz is about, that you're forced to choose to take the vaccine by a state?
I could understand that, better to be honest about it to save people 3 hours on what rather could be said as in 2 minutes.
"There are studies that show ivermectin works when done correctly. We should study this more to include it in the treatment of Covid"
The Nazi reference, it was politically motivated mass executions. At best covid came about by accident, at worst some small nr of peoples idiot virus leak. There is no big movement to knowingly kill people with vaccines based on ethnicity and race and the rest. I'd rather not conflate it
should have probably paid better attention to how the two seemingly not entirely related issues were inconspicuously conflated
in any case the essay link i posted stands as is worthwhile by itself ||
‘For as long as there are people on the road and victims in the thicket, divided by dream barriers, this will remain a phoney civilisation.‘
https://www.kractivist.org/india-people-being-starved-to-death-by-the-govt-in-the-name-of-aadhaar-and-dbt/
The phoney government quote is very interesting, source? Sounds like one of the Beats, but I’m a shit scholar in some areas. (I could see borrowing that one for uses of my own…)
Is there a second source for the starved to death story. A blog called Kractivism might not meet minimums for a first source, but I’ve been wrong before. Seemed like bare assertions. But again, a genocide somehow involving a government direct deposit program, if true, has something to do with global pandemic protocols like vaccination cards and social distancing? I must say the graphic design on the Kractivism site was pretty cool.
Are we talking here about the deepstate/big tech conspiracy thing, in which vaccination card information is part of a run up to…totalitarianism? Genocide? I watched a Russell Brand YouTube about that one. He’s the guy that was in Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
the quote is from the OP Koestler piece.
there’s no shortage of info on Aadhaar & it’s resultant outcomes out there.
guess it’s one’s personal take on wether you choose to listen to the reports from the ground or go with the B&MG Foundation / Indian govt version
First, is there a link you can share for another source. Other than something like Kractivism.
More importantly for this discussion, lay out how the Koestler piece about the historical and ongoing blindness towards Shoah and comtemporary genocides in India and elsewhere has anything at all to do with the contagion protocols of social distancing and vaccination cards?
You keep thumping the metaphor. Governments, capitalists etc committing genocide = the (ever more effective) measures to control a global pandemic?
Collection of data via vaccination information by deepstate/big tech is happening? If so that’s going to do what?
Keeping anti vaxxer anti maskers out of private business spaces sets the stage for internment in concentration camps?
Goddamn, that Koestler piece is riveting. So the - so far - bare assertion is that we are now blind to something as demonic as genocide, something hidden behind vaccination programs, cards, distancing…
First I think you’ll have to science the danger of vaccines. The podcast didn’t. The position promoted by those gentlemen over the course of 3+ hours pivots on the unproven.
But again, please make explicit what has been left tacit: how is this genocide metaphor anything but a dog whistle for people who think that their strange notions of “personal freedom” take precedence over thier neighbor’s right to life. That’s a lethality that’s all too well sourced
ivermectin is the new hydrochloroquine.
I can understand how you would think this, but you'll find out eventually you were wrong in this case.
Dt Pierre Korby is an ICU and lung specialist, and part of the FLCCC alliance (Front Line Covid critical care). He was there treating people in New York when it was overwhelmed.
FLCCC was founded to discover what were successful treatments in the early days of Covid.
He has testified in the senate twice, once about the use of cortico steroids and blood thinners, and once about Ivermectin. Both times he was intemsley criticised and dismissed, but he was vindicated in the initial case.
His recommendations for thinners and steroids are now standard practice, and in the official protocols. He is not a fringe freak, he has actually pioneered therapies that are the standard of care now for Covid-19 patients.
His video with Bret Weinstein has now been pulled from YouTube, and this is the first strike in the process of Bret’s channel being removed.
So it’s likely the video I posted will be gone soon, and maybe the whole Darkoom podcast channel.
You can hear Dr Korby’s interview in the link below.
Before you brand me as a conspiracy idiot, just read those first few paragraphs again, and ask yourself why is YouTube censoring someone like this…
Hint, I don’t subscribe to an evil plan, but system failures and perverse incentives. Here’s a heads up, drug companies will not fund trials for drugs that are off patent, they are businesses after all. Ivermectin is an anti viral, and is off patent. Its developer Merk declared it should not be used for Covid. Merk also has an expensive new antiviral under trials. They didn’t mention that when criticizing their own drug. Ivermectin costs about $12 per dose, some of the new drugs cost thousands per dose. So when people complain about lack of large scale trials, there won't be one. However there are many trials in other parts of the world, plus overwhelming experiential evidence. Anyway, the validity of all this is discussed in the video.
It’s actually really distressing for a rational, scientifically minded person to discover this stuff. You realise that you’re going to sound like a tin foil hatter until this stuff is resolved.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/qHjNQIynVb5O/
I understand, and apologise for any offense. This did occur to me after I made the post.
It does appear I was using the holocaust as a metaphor for the current situation, but my main intention was rather the sense of frustration when something huge is being dismissed. However it does really amount to the same thing in a sense, I admit. In my defense I found this essay after it was quoted by Eric Weinstein (Brett's rather amazing brother), and they are Jewish. He was using it to point out many other general madnesses we seem to be descending into rather than this specific issue.
However I acknowledge it must be distressing and perhaps wasn't a great idea, so I acknowledge your concern.
Also I probably won't be following this thread as I find it emotionally difficult to go out on a limb on stuff like this... So if anyone wants to specifically address something, anything, DM me.
Two points.
mRNA is great technology, big fan of it.. Like Crispr, one if most promising technologies with potential to temove most (if not all) serious diseases and enlarge human lifespan significantly.
It already saved a hell lot of lifes and next applications are coming (even cancer related vaccines).. really glad we are moving forward with health protection and improvement technologies...
truly, most would rather not know that the reality of the systems aren’t as believed.
this is a notable aspect of the situation ...
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/27/profitable-business-scientific-publishing-bad-for-science
@SimonSomeone : Setting aside the acknowledged mistake of yoking the Holocaust to anything other than other actual, intentional genocides, leading with Arthur Koestler may not be the best opening on any debate where intentions and motivations are under scrutiny.
Because, would that be the same Arthur Koestler who, having entirely reasonably, decided to end his own life at the age of 77 whilst suffering from Parkinson’s disease and cancer also, by some accounts, persuaded or bullied his much younger (55), apparently healthy wife into taking her own life too? Not sure I take moral lessons from such sources:
“ Controversy arose over why Koestler allowed, consented to, or (according to some critics) compelled his wife's simultaneous suicide. She was only 55 years old and was believed to be in good health. In a typewritten addition to her husband's suicide note, Cynthia wrote that she could not live without her husband. Reportedly, few of the Koestlers' friends were surprised by this admission, apparently perceiving that Cynthia lived her life through her husband and that she had no "life of her own".[74] Her absolute devotion to Koestler can be seen clearly in her partially completed memoirs.[75] Yet according to a profile of Koestler by Peter Kurth:[76]
All their friends were troubled by what Julian Barnes calls "the unmentionable, half-spoken question" of Koestler's responsibility for Cynthia's actions. "Did he bully her into it?" asks Barnes. And "if he didn't bully her into it, why didn't he bully her out of it?" Because, with hindsight, the evidence that Cynthia's life had been ebbing with her husband's was all too apparent.” (Wikipedia)
He was also variously accused of rape, forcing one woman he had slept with to have an illegal abortion, disowning a daughter he fathered; denouncing another lover to communist secret police; and various other cruelties and, specifically, misogynies. Darkness at Noon however is a stone cold classic. He said it best himself:
“Liking a writer and then meeting the writer is like liking goose liver and then meeting the goose."
The provenance of the sources relied upon in an argument does matter.
Ouch. Sorry to point this out, but confirmation bias and groupthink also play a part in mainstream thought. Remember not so long ago when any talk about COVID originating in a Wuhan lab was heresy and crazy talk? Now it’s being openly discussed. Even Fauci has finally admitted it’s likely.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/china/china-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-mic-intl-hnk/index.html
Politics has eclipsed all rational thought, especially in the “science” surrounding COVID.
Yes, politics sometimes eclipses rational thought. A lot of folks in the U.S. are choosing not to get vaccinated in order to demonstrate their rejection of science, liberals and groupthink ..and hence keeping the pandemic alive.
This is simple strawmanning. Or moving the goalpost, if you prefer. Nothing that you write here seems to address either of the points made that you are apparently replying to.
Or they might be choosing not to get vaccinated because they’re not at risk, perhaps? COVID has a track record now. In the US it represents a serious risk to about .05% of the entire population and those most at risk are either vaccinated by now or had their lives unfortunately cut short. Considering we are a free and open society, shouldn’t people who don’t want to be vaccinated and those who are already vaccinated get on with their lives now?
Under 6000 new cases in the US today. You can’t really argue with success. I have to admit, tho, Trump was right. The virus went away right after he lost.