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App to help me write Harmonies

Jusch1995Jusch1995
edited May 2021 in General App Discussion

I know we don’t have any app like real-tune or Melodyne on iOS, which is really sad.

Are there any apps that help me to write Harmonies for my vocals. Maybe something that shows me which notes are in my vocal? (Like melodyne without the tuning). Or is there really nothing to help and i have to rebuild them with a piano everytime?

Also is there anything to allow me to shift the Formant of a vocal?

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Comments

  • db909db909

    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

  • ecouecou
    edited May 2021

    @Jusch1995 The two closest things we have on iOS are

    Audiotune
    https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/le03-audiotune-auv3/id1514663681

    Cubasis 3 as a plugin by Waves called Tune

    But I agree with @db909 learning to do it by ears will make you a better signer. And it will get easier the more you do it.

  • ecouecou

    You might be interested to watch at 2:20

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @db909 said:
    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

    Yeah it's the only way I've ever managed to do it. Takes time to get right though.

    My method:

    • Sing the original melody, try and nail the pitch as best you can (this is important for later)
    • Mute the track and sing a variation of this melody either higher or lower and get used to finding the pitch
    • Unmute the original and sing the new melody over the original, it will take a while to get it to sound nice unless you're a very good singer. Still with some practice you should be able to get both parts in tune and sounding good.

    The reason it's difficult is because harmony vocal parts are pretty unforgiving - you can get away with a little pitchiness and imprecision on a solo vocal, but with harmonies these build up and sound nasty when juxtaposed.

  • Jusch1995Jusch1995

    @richardyot said:

    @db909 said:
    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

    Yeah it's the only way I've ever managed to do it. Takes time to get right though.

    My method:

    • Sing the original melody, try and nail the pitch as best you can (this is important for later)
    • Mute the track and sing a variation of this melody either higher or lower and get used to finding the pitch
    • Unmute the original and sing the new melody over the original, it will take a while to get it to sound nice unless you're a very good singer. Still with some practice you should be able to get both parts in tune and sounding good.

    The reason it's difficult is because harmony vocal parts are pretty unforgiving - you can get away with a little pitchiness and imprecision on a solo vocal, but with harmonies these build up and sound nasty when juxtaposed.

    Yeah what I do is to find out which notes are in the vocals by trying on a piano and then make a midi track of it. From there it is super easy to create harmonies. I just wished there was an app that easy show me on a piano roll which notes are in my vocals. There are a lot that do this in real time ( fabfilter pro q, Autotune etc) but nothing after a playback like real-tune or melodyne. Best app I found so far is Singscope, but it also doesn’t show the notes as clear...

  • ecouecou

    @Jusch1995 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @db909 said:
    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

    Yeah it's the only way I've ever managed to do it. Takes time to get right though.

    My method:

    • Sing the original melody, try and nail the pitch as best you can (this is important for later)
    • Mute the track and sing a variation of this melody either higher or lower and get used to finding the pitch
    • Unmute the original and sing the new melody over the original, it will take a while to get it to sound nice unless you're a very good singer. Still with some practice you should be able to get both parts in tune and sounding good.

    The reason it's difficult is because harmony vocal parts are pretty unforgiving - you can get away with a little pitchiness and imprecision on a solo vocal, but with harmonies these build up and sound nasty when juxtaposed.

    Yeah what I do is to find out which notes are in the vocals by trying on a piano and then make a midi track of it. From there it is super easy to create harmonies. I just wished there was an app that easy show me on a piano roll which notes are in my vocals. There are a lot that do this in real time ( fabfilter pro q, Autotune etc) but nothing after a playback like real-tune or melodyne. Best app I found so far is Singscope, but it also doesn’t show the notes as clear...

    Did you see my post. Two apps that do that in real time.

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    Feed it through thumbjam - can give you audio to midi to get the midi notes and then you can start creating harmonies.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @db909 said:
    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

    It’s quite daunting to think about it, but gets easier the more you do it. It’s definitely more useful to know how to do it yourself rather than letting a tool do it for you.

    Once you learn how to sing a major and minor third harmony you can do just about anything.

  • rs2000rs2000

    This app has been very helpful for my own singing nightmares:
    https://apps.apple.com/de/app/singscope/id944309175?l=en

  • Paulo164Paulo164

    Check HarmonyWiz :

    https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/harmonywiz/id629564112

    and YouCompose :

    https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/youcompose/id690183662

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    Harmonizr will add harmony parts to whatever you sing into it. It’s a great app. Here’s a little improv I did with two vocal parts, both enhanced by Harmonizr:

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @Jusch1995 said:
    I know we don’t have any app like real-tune or Melodyne on iOS, which is really sad.

    Are there any apps that help me to write Harmonies for my vocals. Maybe something that shows me which notes are in my vocal? (Like melodyne without the tuning). Or is there really nothing to help and i have to rebuild them with a piano everytime?

    Also is there anything to allow me to shift the Formant of a vocal?

    You can do formant shifting in Cubasis, but I’ve never tried it yet.

  • Jusch1995Jusch1995

    Thank you much for the suggestions, I will look into it.

    @ecou said:

    @Jusch1995 said:

    @richardyot said:

    @db909 said:
    In my extremely humble opinion, I’d try to learn how to do it by ear. You’ll only be better for it

    Yeah it's the only way I've ever managed to do it. Takes time to get right though.

    My method:

    • Sing the original melody, try and nail the pitch as best you can (this is important for later)
    • Mute the track and sing a variation of this melody either higher or lower and get used to finding the pitch
    • Unmute the original and sing the new melody over the original, it will take a while to get it to sound nice unless you're a very good singer. Still with some practice you should be able to get both parts in tune and sounding good.

    The reason it's difficult is because harmony vocal parts are pretty unforgiving - you can get away with a little pitchiness and imprecision on a solo vocal, but with harmonies these build up and sound nasty when juxtaposed.

    Yeah what I do is to find out which notes are in the vocals by trying on a piano and then make a midi track of it. From there it is super easy to create harmonies. I just wished there was an app that easy show me on a piano roll which notes are in my vocals. There are a lot that do this in real time ( fabfilter pro q, Autotune etc) but nothing after a playback like real-tune or melodyne. Best app I found so far is Singscope, but it also doesn’t show the notes as clear...

    Did you see my post. Two apps that do that in real time.

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

  • Jusch1995Jusch1995

    @mjcouche said:
    Feed it through thumbjam - can give you audio to midi to get the midi notes and then you can start creating harmonies.

    That sounds exactly what I need, thank you 😊

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @Jusch1995 said:

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

    I’m not understanding your request. An app such as Harmonizr can harmonize in real time based on whatever midi chords you feed into it. You can work out the chords you want before the performance and program them into a sequencer. Or if you want to add harmony after you’ve sung the lead part, the same process gets the same result.

    What are you looking for that this doesn’t work?

  • Jusch1995Jusch1995

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Jusch1995 said:

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

    I’m not understanding your request. An app such as Harmonizr can harmonize in real time based on whatever midi chords you feed into it. You can work out the chords you want before the performance and program them into a sequencer. Or if you want to add harmony after you’ve sung the lead part, the same process gets the same result.

    What are you looking for that this doesn’t work?

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Jusch1995 said:

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

    I’m not understanding your request. An app such as Harmonizr can harmonize in real time based on whatever midi chords you feed into it. You can work out the chords you want before the performance and program them into a sequencer. Or if you want to add harmony after you’ve sung the lead part, the same process gets the same result.

    What are you looking for that this doesn’t work?

    Yes I see what you mean. This works perfect if you know the source notes of the singing. I need an app to get those source notes so basically audio to midi.

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @Jusch1995 said:

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Jusch1995 said:

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

    I’m not understanding your request. An app such as Harmonizr can harmonize in real time based on whatever midi chords you feed into it. You can work out the chords you want before the performance and program them into a sequencer. Or if you want to add harmony after you’ve sung the lead part, the same process gets the same result.

    What are you looking for that this doesn’t work?

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Jusch1995 said:

    Yes there are a lot that do it in real-time, but I need something that doesn’t do it in real time :smile:

    I’m not understanding your request. An app such as Harmonizr can harmonize in real time based on whatever midi chords you feed into it. You can work out the chords you want before the performance and program them into a sequencer. Or if you want to add harmony after you’ve sung the lead part, the same process gets the same result.

    What are you looking for that this doesn’t work?

    Yes I see what you mean. This works perfect if you know the source notes of the singing. I need an app to get those source notes so basically audio to midi.

    Then I agree that Thumbjam is an easy way to convert audio to midi. But in the long run, investing some practice time in ear training will give a much bigger payoff and greatly improve your life. Plus it’s a lot more fun than fiddling with technology. Sing with a tanpura drone until you can hit any note at will, and then you will no longer need the app to tell you which note is which.

  • AtlesbeAtlesbe
    edited May 2021

    @sonosaurus helped me with this ThumbJam feature a long time ago.
    Here is the link to that thread and his explanation. Hope this can help you.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/10012/what-nonexistent-apps-should-exist

  • supadomsupadom
    edited May 2021

    Korg gadget. Pick a synth with a sustained sound. Then just play the harmony in the sequencer and paint your harmonies in a chosen scale.

    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @supadom said:>
    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

    I agree, but you can do both.

    Also, if you draw random harmonies on the roll, you don’t need to know anything about harmony or which notes are in the melody. Just keep drawing until it sounds good. This in itself is a form of ear training, and results in original music.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @supadom said:
    Korg gadget. Pick a synth with a sustained sound. Then just play the harmony in the sequencer and paint your harmonies in a chosen scale.

    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

    Doing it by ear is more likely to produce things you may not otherwise think of, as picking notes from a scale will in most cases just involve consonant intervals, whereas randomly picking by ear will certainly provide the jazzier augmented and diminished intervals that give so much color to harmonies.

  • soundtemplesoundtemple

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    Harmonizr will add harmony parts to whatever you sing into it. It’s a great app. Here’s a little improv I did with two vocal parts, both enhanced by Harmonizr:

    Lovely!

  • AileromAilerom

    I learned to harmonise by singing the harmony parts to the music I listen to. The Beatles are good I've found for helping to easily pick out the harmonies and practice to. No I just sing whatever I like when listening in the car. Sometimes I practice harmony, other times the melody.

    Another option I guess would be to program the melody using something voice like (maybe an organ?). Then on another track use a slightly different sound and program nots within your vocal range that harmonise well. Such as maj or min 3rd depending on the chord, 5th etc.

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    Singscope

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/singscope/id944309175

    MagicStave Free

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/magic-stave-free/id354929718

    Paid

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/magic-stave-midi-recorder/id348795310

    Vocal on Stave
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vocal-on-stave/id1491699365

    On Pitch - Vocal pitch monitor
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onpitch-vocal-pitch-monitor/id1212118228

    Pitch Analyzer
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pitch-analyzer/id571243369

  • supadomsupadom
    edited May 2021

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:
    Korg gadget. Pick a synth with a sustained sound. Then just play the harmony in the sequencer and paint your harmonies in a chosen scale.

    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

    Doing it by ear is more likely to produce things you may not otherwise think of, as picking notes from a scale will in most cases just involve consonant intervals, whereas randomly picking by ear will certainly provide the jazzier augmented and diminished intervals that give so much color to harmonies.

    Nah mate. It’s all BS. Im not going to get dragged into a A vs B drama. I don’t remember saying one is better than the other. You and @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr need to start reading posts properly. ;)

    It’s like telling someone that he definitely prefers vanilla ice cream. It’s a personal preference and not even that. With me it sometimes goes one way, sometimes the other.

    Give me loopy and I can knock you a 5 part harmony in seconds. However it will often be a harmony that I normally do. Sometimes you need to approach things differently, like starting a song with a guitar as opposed to a piano or a drum beat. Even there programmed and acoustic drums will give you different feel.

    Harmonies don’t have to be static either, they can move around rhythmically and piano roll can be of help to visualise what’s happening.

  • hisdudenesshisdudeness

    @Jusch1995 said:
    I know we don’t have any app like real-tune or Melodyne on iOS, which is really sad.

    Are there any apps that help me to write Harmonies for my vocals. Maybe something that shows me which notes are in my vocal? (Like melodyne without the tuning). Or is there really nothing to help and i have to rebuild them with a piano everytime?

    Also is there anything to allow me to shift the Formant of a vocal?

    For live you can try auto-tune mobile
    It will show notes

    Even tuner apps like clear tune , total energy tuner can show notes , if you sing note by note

    For audio playback

    You can try audio stretch, it will show harmonics on keyboard , little tedious but can get job done

    Off beat

    You can try something like Midi guitar and record the midi notes you are singing
    Problem it will also record a lot of unwanted notes you will need to clean up

    Then off course transpose to taste

    Formant shift

    You can try

    Retune available only in Auria
    Voice rack Fx by TC (special fx only)

  • Jusch1995Jusch1995

    Thanks for all those great Tipps. I want to try midi guitar 2. can someone explain how I get audio to midi with it ?

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @supadom said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:
    Korg gadget. Pick a synth with a sustained sound. Then just play the harmony in the sequencer and paint your harmonies in a chosen scale.

    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

    Doing it by ear is more likely to produce things you may not otherwise think of, as picking notes from a scale will in most cases just involve consonant intervals, whereas randomly picking by ear will certainly provide the jazzier augmented and diminished intervals that give so much color to harmonies.

    Nah mate. It’s all BS. Im not going to get dragged into a A vs B drama. I don’t remember saying one is better than the other. You and @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr need to start reading posts properly. ;)

    It’s like telling someone that he definitely prefers vanilla ice cream. It’s a personal preference and not even that. With me it sometimes goes one way, sometimes the other.

    Give me loopy and I can knock you a 5 part harmony in seconds. However it will often be a harmony that I normally do. Sometimes you need to approach things differently, like starting a song with a guitar as opposed to a piano or a drum beat. Even there programmed and acoustic drums will give you different feel.

    Harmonies don’t have to be static either, they can move around rhythmically and piano roll can be of help to visualise what’s happening.

    I didn’t actually say you said one is better than the other. I just gave my opinion that I think working by ear is going to produce more variation than using a tool that works to a fixed scale.

  • supadomsupadom

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:
    Korg gadget. Pick a synth with a sustained sound. Then just play the harmony in the sequencer and paint your harmonies in a chosen scale.

    I know some people have suggested to learn doing it by ear but sometimes unexpected beautiful things can come up by drawing notes on a piano roll you wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

    Doing it by ear is more likely to produce things you may not otherwise think of, as picking notes from a scale will in most cases just involve consonant intervals, whereas randomly picking by ear will certainly provide the jazzier augmented and diminished intervals that give so much color to harmonies.

    Nah mate. It’s all BS. Im not going to get dragged into a A vs B drama. I don’t remember saying one is better than the other. You and @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr need to start reading posts properly. ;)

    It’s like telling someone that he definitely prefers vanilla ice cream. It’s a personal preference and not even that. With me it sometimes goes one way, sometimes the other.

    Give me loopy and I can knock you a 5 part harmony in seconds. However it will often be a harmony that I normally do. Sometimes you need to approach things differently, like starting a song with a guitar as opposed to a piano or a drum beat. Even there programmed and acoustic drums will give you different feel.

    Harmonies don’t have to be static either, they can move around rhythmically and piano roll can be of help to visualise what’s happening.

    I didn’t actually say you said one is better than the other. I just gave my opinion that I think working by ear is going to produce more variation than using a tool that works to a fixed scale.

    Whatever...

    To me both approaches are equally valid.

    I like vanilla though.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Jusch1995 said:
    Thanks for all those great Tipps. I want to try midi guitar 2. can someone explain how I get audio to midi with it ?

    In AUM, load your input source add MIDI Guitar 2 as an effect. In AUM's MIDI Matrix, direct the midi output from MIDI Guitar 2 to wherever you would like it to go.

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