Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Dead iPad Pro AGAIN. That’s 3. F*****k this.

135

Comments

  • I may have missed it in one of your posts, have you tried plugging in everything with the iPad powered off? Inconvenient but maybe that’s a safer way to go with your setup.

  • @Telefunky said:
    @tahiche I second your hiccup metapher... the Anker powerbank is capable to quick load notebooks, which will deliver 12V (instead of 5V) to the connected unit... if I understood correctly.
    If you interupted power delivery negotiations by acting too fast, it may have picked the wrong item from the list.
    Not your fault, as I never read about hints like: „wait a few seconds“ or similiar in context with chargers or powerbanks.

    I think you might be right. Propably it would already help disconnecting the powerbank from the hub first, then re-establishing connection by plugging the hub in and out and in the end plugging in the power bank back in.

    Anyway I would really use another hub. This hub seems to be a bad idea.

  • According to iFixit the protection circuit for the USB-C on the iPad is based on this IC from TI https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tpd6s300a .

    That IC is supposed to be able to protect from a 20V over-voltage situation and have ESD protection.

    Maybe related to the issue here is an article from TI: https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller

    The article points out that if a USB-C plug is pulled with a twist, it can short the pins and this can cause an over-voltage on the wrong pins on the USB-C connector. I kinda think that the hub design that directly connects the jack to the body without a cable would be more prone to causing a twist with extra torque. If the hub is actually pushing 24V, which it seems some can, then that might be too much for the over-voltage protection IC in the iPad.

  • Yeah I agree, I wouldn't trust a dongle like that, could create too much friction and stress on the port (that's how it seems from the look of it anyway)

  • @NeonSilicon said:
    According to iFixit the protection circuit for the USB-C on the iPad is based on this IC from TI https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tpd6s300a .

    That IC is supposed to be able to protect from a 20V over-voltage situation and have ESD protection.

    Maybe related to the issue here is an article from TI: https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller

    The article points out that if a USB-C plug is pulled with a twist, it can short the pins and this can cause an over-voltage on the wrong pins on the USB-C connector. I kinda think that the hub design that directly connects the jack to the body without a cable would be more prone to causing a twist with extra torque. If the hub is actually pushing 24V, which it seems some can, then that might be too much for the over-voltage protection IC in the iPad.

    Interesting... Seems to nicely explain the reported circumstances in a plausible way.

    Given this, it might seem wise to refrain from plugging anything "cable-less" into an iPad usb-c port.

  • @arktek
    I think that the plugging/unplugging thing might be close to what's happening here. If the state of the chip isn't switching fast enough and then you add power to one end it might be overloading something. I think that this is more likely the case than the USB hub doing weird things or the battery doing weird things

    Yep, this is my current favorite theory.

    Difficult to test without potentially blowing up a huge number of devices in the process which seems to be a track you've already been going down.

    Damn, that was harsh! 😵 I actually thought I was fine after replacing the battery.

    @Telefunky Not your fault, as I never read about hints like: „wait a few seconds“ or similiar in context with chargers or powerbanks.

    Hiccups metaphor theory +1 . We’re already way ahead of the Apple staff!.
    This is probably aggravated by the “wedge” design of the hub like @Carnbot says. It disconnects easily, increasing the hiccup factor.
    @tja I know it must be something peculiar about my setup.
    I was sue it was the powerbank... it took 2 to stablish a common scenario. Given that Apple didn’t help or give me any good pointers, actually said that it shouldn’t be due to the hub.
    Took 3 to discard the previous.

    Given that’s it not easily reproducible (I’ve been using it for a while). It has to be a cumulus of factors. Like THIS specific hub + fast plugging/unplugging.

    I realize if I was you and read a dude saying he had fried 3 iPads I’d have my doubts. But it’s not like I was careless. Actually I’ve been quite careful.

    Glad you like it @ervin. But somehow the Launchkey is not being powered. Do you if it’s compatible with the yellow mini?.

  • I’m curious if all 3 crashes occurred in the same location. It may be possible that the location may be getting too much electromagnetic interference from surrounding power lines, people nearby broadcasting things on various frequencies, malfunctioning microwave ovens, hellifIknow but something is consistently zapping these iPads, so I wonder if moving them out to a cornfield would help. Probably too late to test that theory.

  • @ervin said:

    @tahiche said:

    This is a comprehensive setup. But not very “sofable”... my concept of portability is sofa-centric 🙃

    >

    It's not going to help you much, amigo, but I have to point out I like that flat UI design of your current custom ipad mini there

    Haha. It’s their thinnest iPad ever!

  • @horsetrainer said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    According to iFixit the protection circuit for the USB-C on the iPad is based on this IC from TI https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tpd6s300a .

    That IC is supposed to be able to protect from a 20V over-voltage situation and have ESD protection.

    Maybe related to the issue here is an article from TI: https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller

    The article points out that if a USB-C plug is pulled with a twist, it can short the pins and this can cause an over-voltage on the wrong pins on the USB-C connector. I kinda think that the hub design that directly connects the jack to the body without a cable would be more prone to causing a twist with extra torque. If the hub is actually pushing 24V, which it seems some can, then that might be too much for the over-voltage protection IC in the iPad.

    Interesting... Seems to nicely explain the reported circumstances in a plausible way.

    Given this, it might seem wise to refrain from plugging anything "cable-less" into an iPad usb-c port.

    This is also a good theory. So it could be the hiccups or the torque. Or both... Anyway we all seem to be pointing at the hub... just like last time it all pointed at the battery powerbank.
    At the end of the day all of this is very unclear and poorly documented. After 2 iPads it seemed clear it was the powerbank, after 3 fried iPads it’s the hub, which wasn’t a suspect until now.
    It’s also clear now I should have ditched the hub just in case, but that’s from today’s perspective.

    Thank u all! I’m taking this with a smile. Zen! 😑

  • wimwim
    edited May 2021

    As long as we're SWAGging here, I wonder if it's possible that the hub casing, coming directly into contact with the iPad with the direct connection, could be transmitting too much static electricity to the iPad when being plugged or unplugged. An insulated and shielded cable is unlikely to transmit any static electricity. A case like that comes in contact with a lot of skin and if it's metal, is an excellent conductor.

    I also think that @NeonSilicon 's mention of twisting causing shorts merits consideration. The torquing leverage when plugging a cable is far less than when gripping a device like that. A relatively small rotation of that device in any direction would be amplified at the connector.


    True story. I had an IT customer whose computer would continually freeze at intermittent times. Over the course of several months we replaced every damn thing on that computer, tried other computers, moved her to a different desk, etc, etc... It was driving us nuts.

    We finally figured out that this lady was simply loaded with static electricity. She could lock up just about any computer just by typing on it for long enough. We put a ground strap on her and she never had another problem after that. 😂

  • @wim said:
    As long as we're SWAGging here, I wonder if it's possible that the hub casing, coming directly into contact with the iPad with the direct connection, could be transmitting too much static electricity to the iPad when being plugged or unplugged. An insulated and shielded cable is unlikely to transmit any static electricity. A case like that comes in contact with a lot of skin and if it's metal, is an excellent conductor.

    I also think that @NeonSilicon 's mention of twisting causing shorts merits consideration. The torquing leverage when plugging a cable is far less than when gripping a device like that. A relatively small rotation of that device in any direction would be amplified at the connector.


    True story. I had an IT customer whose computer would continually freeze at intermittent times. Over the course of several months we replaced every damn thing on that computer, tried other computers, moved her to a different desk, etc, etc... It was driving us nuts.

    We finally figured out that this lady was simply loaded with static electricity. She could lock up just about any computer just by typing on it for long enough. We put a ground strap on her and she never had another problem after that. 😂

    Is that a thing? 😵 Am i the electric hiccup inducer after all?..
    Did this tragedy just produce an amazing band name? **Electric Hiccup ** 🤟💀🤟

  • wimwim
    edited May 2021

    @tahiche said:
    Is that a thing? 😵 Am i the electric hiccup inducer after all?..
    Did this tragedy just produce an amazing band name? **Electric Hiccup ** 🤟💀🤟

    Maybe you just like totally have an awesomely powerful aura dude.

    The temporal differential we call wakefulness is the cosmic interaction of subatomic particles operating in the quantum field, the (quantum)leap represents a fundamental universal constant that we can only speculate upon in the macro scale of wave form frequencies.

    iPads are just not well equipped yet to handle cosmic interactions like this.

  • Never had this but feel for ya. Yea it could be any part of the entire chain, from the electricity, extension cord, cables, hub, all the way down the line to the last connected device or whatever. Try to work backwards to route out the problem. Hope you can figure it out.

  • I wonder if there is some technical term to describe my rising fury at these endless "improvements"? Should be.

  • edited May 2021

    ‘User error’

    ….

    I’m kidding

  • Electric Hiccup sounds nifty for a band name. SHC is still available too.

  • Are they issues with generic USB-C to USB adapters? Is it better to use Apple one?

    https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/adaptateur-usb-c-vers-usb

  • @tahiche said:

    Glad you like it @ervin. But somehow the Launchkey is not being powered. Do you if it’s compatible with the yellow mini?.

    No idea. But given your recent experience with cable-transmitted power, I would definitely turn on the induction setting on the Yellow One and try that way.

  • edited May 2021

    @Janosax said:
    Are they issues with generic USB-C to USB adapters? Is it better to use Apple one?

    https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/adaptateur-usb-c-vers-usb

    As I wrote in my post in this thread. USB-C is just a connector type. Which protocols and specifications are being implemented by the hub, what you can do and what you can successfully connect to it, how much power it delivers, which transfer speeds it allows, etc. is a question of what the manufacturer has implemented. You need to study the specs, understand them and figure it out or just buy an Apple Mifi device. If you you want to power your iPad you should better buy the Apple adapter with PD instead of this one.

  • edited May 2021

    @krassmann said:

    @Janosax said:
    Are they issues with generic USB-C to USB adapters? Is it better to use Apple one?

    https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/adaptateur-usb-c-vers-usb

    As I wrote in my post in this thread. USB-C is just a connector type. Which protocols and specifications are being implemented by the hub, what you can do and what you can successfully connect to it, how much power it delivers, which transfer speeds it allows, etc. is a question of what the manufacturer has implemented. You need to study the specs, understand them and figure it out or just buy an Apple Mifi device. If you you want to power your iPad you should better buy the Apple adapter with PD instead of this one.

    If Power Delivery (PD) is so critical that a hub or device lacking it can damage your iPad, it should be a lot clearer.
    You mention the Apple original “Usb-c digital av multiport adapter”…
    https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
    Probably the safest choice. Well, there’s no specification of Power Delivery !.
    Whereas a third party Satechi (oh, that brand sounds familiar) does splicitly specify “usb-c power delivery” as a highlight.
    https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMYE2ZM/A/satechi-aluminum-usb-c-multiport-pro-adapter

    So what is PD?. Anything with a power usb-c socket or does it mean special specs/chip?.
    Is Apples own adaptor PD?. Whatever it is it’s not clear at all.

    Actually, here’s my current hub…

    If we were to be real picky about PD, my hub is PD and we don’t even know if Apples own hub is, cos it doesn’t say. So my hub is by a renowned brand which they sell at the Apple store. It’s labelled as having Power Delivery. Yet I’m reckless for not using Apples hub which is not labelled PD, but we all know it is because….

    Here’s an analogy… I’m a web dev. I have a site in production that I’ve tested extensively. Yet I get a bug report because someone claims they don’t see it right, it’s all screwed up on their browser. Turns out they have a device with a very peculiar resolution of 999 pixels that I obviously haven’t tested. Do I blame their device?. Certainly not. Either I take it into account or I specifically mark what resolutions are supported.

    I’m sure there’s more cases like mine, there have to be. Just so infrequent that they’d rather get me a new unit (hopefully) than look into it. Are they gonna look into it this time?. No. They could have asked me for the hub and write down the exact use case to try and reproduce it. But they haven’t. What if the cause is the rapid plug-in/unplugging and not the hub?.

  • edited May 2021

    I’m sure there’s more cases like mine, there have to be. Just so infrequent that they’d rather get me a new unit (hopefully) than look into it.

    That nails it pretty well... only 1 out of 100 iPad users does „music production“ and only 1 out of those 100 producers has a setup similiarly ambitious.
    If that fails in 1 out of 10 cases, probability of a serious damage is 1:100k ;)
    As long as Apple continues to supply you with replacements, it‘s fine... a bit unpleasant, though...

  • R> @wim said:

    As long as we're SWAGging here, I wonder if it's possible that the hub casing, coming directly into contact with the iPad with the direct connection, could be transmitting too much static electricity to the iPad when being plugged or unplugged. An insulated and shielded cable is unlikely to transmit any static electricity. A case like that comes in contact with a lot of skin and if it's metal, is an excellent conductor.

    I also think that @NeonSilicon 's mention of twisting causing shorts merits consideration. The torquing leverage when plugging a cable is far less than when gripping a device like that. A relatively small rotation of that device in any direction would be amplified at the connector.


    True story. I had an IT customer whose computer would continually freeze at intermittent times. Over the course of several months we replaced every damn thing on that computer, tried other computers, moved her to a different desk, etc, etc... It was driving us nuts.

    We finally figured out that this lady was simply loaded with static electricity. She could lock up just about any computer just by typing on it for long enough. We put a ground strap on her and she never had another problem after that. 😂

    Wow that a good one Wim. Maybe she is one of those people that drag their feet while walking.

  • edited May 2021

    @tahiche said:

    @krassmann said:

    @Janosax said:
    Are they issues with generic USB-C to USB adapters? Is it better to use Apple one?

    https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/adaptateur-usb-c-vers-usb

    As I wrote in my post in this thread. USB-C is just a connector type. Which protocols and specifications are being implemented by the hub, what you can do and what you can successfully connect to it, how much power it delivers, which transfer speeds it allows, etc. is a question of what the manufacturer has implemented. You need to study the specs, understand them and figure it out or just buy an Apple Mifi device. If you you want to power your iPad you should better buy the Apple adapter with PD instead of this one.

    If Power Delivery (PD) is so critical that a hub or device lacking it can damage your iPad, it should be a lot clearer.
    You mention the Apple original “Usb-c digital av multiport adapter”…
    https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
    Probably the safest choice. Well, there’s no specification of Power Delivery !.
    Whereas a third party Satechi (oh, that brand sounds familiar) does splicitly specify “usb-c power delivery” as a highlight.
    https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMYE2ZM/A/satechi-aluminum-usb-c-multiport-pro-adapter

    So what is PD?. Anything with a power usb-c socket or does it mean special specs/chip?.
    Is Apples own adaptor PD?. Whatever it is it’s not clear at all.

    Actually, here’s my current hub…

    If we were to be real picky about PD, my hub is PD and we don’t even know if Apples own hub is, cos it doesn’t say. So my hub is by a renowned brand which they sell at the Apple store. It’s labelled as having Power Delivery. Yet I’m reckless for not using Apples hub which is not labelled PD, but we all know it is because….

    Here’s an analogy… I’m a web dev. I have a site in production that I’ve tested extensively. Yet I get a bug report because someone claims they don’t see it right, it’s all screwed up on their browser. Turns out they have a device with a very peculiar resolution of 999 pixels that I obviously haven’t tested. Do I blame their device?. Certainly not. Either I take it into account or I specifically mark what resolutions are supported.

    I’m sure there’s more cases like mine, there have to be. Just so infrequent that they’d rather get me a new unit (hopefully) than look into it. Are they gonna look into it this time?. No. They could have asked me for the hub and write down the exact use case to try and reproduce it. But they haven’t. What if the cause is the rapid plug-in/unplugging and not the hub?.

    You see, this is a perfect example for the USB madness and why consumers unfortunately need to learn about the details to make good decisions. So the Satechi hub has PD and the Apple adapter hasn’t - correct. But the Apple thing is Thunderbolt 3 and the Thunderbolt specification includes power delivery up to 100W but of course this is not written anywhere in Apple’s product description and I only know that because I dug into all this. USB-C does not necessarily does PD, only if it implemented but you also need to look into the specs of the device how much it delivers as this is not specified in the USB 3 or 4 spec. If you look into the fine print of the Satechi, you can see that it does PD up to 60W. So if you have a MacBook pro 15 inch your laptop would not be charged through the Satechi hub although it’s advertised as PD but the Apple dongle would although it’s not explicitly mentioned.

    To stick with your analogy the situation is that they advertise the site works with all modern browsers but it actually does only at certain resolutions and the supported resolutions are sometimes mentioned in the fine print - if you are lucky. And if as a customer you have no understanding of pixels and DPI then you are doomed. Moreover you need to know which resolution your monitor has. If we translate the USB madness to this analogy then the site does not work properly if the users are using a VGA cable instead of HDMI although the monitor supports the resolution.

    Well, but coming back to your case… I also believe that your problem might have been the plugging in and out. Probably that also could have happen with the Apple dongle if twisted enough during plugging. Anyway I still think the Satechi hub is bad. Its design leads to more mechanical stress and is more likely to twist the plug while plugging in and out. Moreover it’s connectivity problems were the whole reason for your plugging. Each plugging wears out your port a bit more. Such connectors are designed to last for an average plugging in and out over an average product lifetime. I would just ditch the Satechi hub.

  • @tahiche : Have you considered the possibility that the issue isn't the brand of hub but the particular hub. I.e. that model of hub might be ok but perhaps the unit you have (or a cable) is faulty. Rather than rely on what a person said at the Apple Store (the level of knowledge of the techs is sometimes not such that they would know about obscure technical issues), you might want to talk to someone at a non-Apple repair place and describe the issue and see if they have thoughts about what could cause it. A tech (not a front office person, an actual repair person) high volume repair facility will see a lot of different kinds of situations that a front-office tech support person might not know about.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @tahiche : Have you considered the possibility that the issue isn't the brand of hub but the particular hub. I.e. that model of hub might be ok but perhaps the unit you have (or a cable) is faulty. Rather than rely on what a person said at the Apple Store (the level of knowledge of the techs is sometimes not such that they would know about obscure technical issues), you might want to talk to someone at a non-Apple repair place and describe the issue and see if they have thoughts about what could cause it. A tech (not a front office person, an actual repair person) high volume repair facility will see a lot of different kinds of situations that a front-office tech support person might not know about.

    Last time I did ask at a repair shop. They said the same as Apple Store, that it doesn’t seem like the hub could cause this. But, of course, they didn’t actually check the unit as it’s under warranty and I had to hand it to Apple.
    I guess I’ll never know and that’s very frustrating. At least Apple should point out what the issue was, maybe that’d help. But they don’t specify anything.

    @krassmann I also believe that your problem might have been the plugging in and out. Probably that also could have happen with the Apple dongle if twisted enough during plugging. Anyway I still think the Satechi hub is bad. Its design leads to more mechanical stress and is more likely to twist the plug while plugging in and out

    Yep. Here’s the specific case…
    I was modifying a mosaic script based on one by @wim to put the Launchkey in daw session mode. The Launchkey doesn’t have an on/off switch so the only way was to plug and unplug it. Here’s where the “wedge” design of the Satechi comes in… it’s virtually impossible to disconnect a usb device from it without also disconnecting the Satechi. That probably adds a lot more “lottery tickets” for failure. Also the Launchkey wasn’t always recognized and I needed to plug it again.

    That said, the iPad should never “fry” because of plugging/unplugging of devices. So it must be a combination of factors. They should hire me as a beta tester.

  • edited May 2021

    If the twisted USB jack problem is like described in this link to TI in one of the posts here, then there is nothing what Apple could do. If the PD current hits a data lane then it’s game over. Then it’s propably a design flaw of the USB-C connector because they wanted to put too many features into this thing. I remember that I read that they designed the USB-C connector type so flat because it should be the one connector to rule them all: from 15 inch workstation laptops to ultra thin mobile phones but you still want to pack everything inside, including lanes that deliver 100W electrical power to a laptop then this is probably the price you pay.

    Update: I meant this link, it depicts the probable reason quite well. credits to @NeonSilicon
    https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller

    Update 2: Reading the article again changed my mind and and now I think Apple could actually do something to protect the iPad:

    These failures are easily avoidable by adding an external protection device such as the TPD6S300A. The TPD6S300A’s ability to clamp the voltage quickly and efficiently helps enable a robust and reliable solution for designers.

  • Wow this seems like a really plausible explanation.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @tahiche : Have you considered the possibility that the issue isn't the brand of hub but the particular hub. I.e. that model of hub might be ok but perhaps the unit you have (or a cable) is faulty. Rather than rely on what a person said at the Apple Store (the level of knowledge of the techs is sometimes not such that they would know about obscure technical issues), you might want to talk to someone at a non-Apple repair place and describe the issue and see if they have thoughts about what could cause it. A tech (not a front office person, an actual repair person) high volume repair facility will see a lot of different kinds of situations that a front-office tech support person might not know about.

    That's what I tried to point out earlier: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/954095/#Comment_954095

    One or more of the devices have a problems, if it is not static itself.
    This means that you need to determine, which of them is to blame - regardless if the model in general or the specific device has an issue.

  • I just threw out a power bar that died... this power bar was used for charging two iPads. The 2018 is dead and the 2017 now has a messed up battery (or worse). Coincidence perhaps, or not.

  • @krassmann said:
    If the twisted USB jack problem is like described in this link to TI in one of the posts here, then there is nothing what Apple could do. If the PD current hits a data lane then it’s game over. Then it’s propably a design flaw of the USB-C connector because they wanted to put too many features into this thing. I remember that I read that they designed the USB-C connector type so flat because it should be the one connector to rule them all: from 15 inch workstation laptops to ultra thin mobile phones but you still want to pack everything inside, including lanes that deliver 100W electrical power to a laptop then this is probably the price you pay.

    Update: I meant this link, it depicts the probable reason quite well. credits to @NeonSilicon
    https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/powerhouse/posts/the-problem-with-short-to-vbus-protection-integrated-into-your-usb-type-c-usb-power-delivery-controller

    Update 2: Reading the article again changed my mind and and now I think Apple could actually do something to protect the iPad:

    These failures are easily avoidable by adding an external protection device such as the TPD6S300A. The TPD6S300A’s ability to clamp the voltage quickly and efficiently helps enable a robust and reliable solution for designers.

    The iPads do have those protection IC's in them. But they have limits on how much voltage they can protect against. It seems though that some USB-C power sources will deliver higher voltage than the IC can protect against.

Sign In or Register to comment.