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MIDI Routing with an iPad and 2 Elektron boxes

I’ve got my Digitakt, Digitone, and iPad with a Zoom u24 interface. I want to try and not use the Zoom when I’m traveling and use the DN as my interface (since it’s stereo and will pass the audio through to the iPad, unlike the DT) so that I can travel light. However, it seems that doing that won’t let me pass the MIDI from the DT through the DN so I can get all 12 MIDI tracks between the two devices to control the iPad via USB.

I’m figuring that I’ll need to use the Zoom if I want to do this, and even then, I’ll probably need some sort of MIDI merger/splitter. I want the DT or DN to act as the master sync and clock. The DN and DT will sequence themselves, but I want both of them to be able to sequence various parts on the iPad.

Audio: DT outputs to DN inputs, DN inputs to Zoom u24 inputs. iPad is master output.

MIDI: DN Out to DT In. DT Out and Thru to merger box. Merger box to Zoom u24. That's just too many devices, to carry around, plus battery packs or plugs and stuff.

Man, I wish Elektron allowed for sending MIDI channels through their machines without having to use a MIDI channel on the device itself.

Comments

  • I would use the helicon blender for the multiple inputs and deal all the midi stuff via Bluetooth !

  • You can consider sequencing the DN with the DT. Or the other way around I suppose.

    Also consider that you can use midi cables between the two Elektron devices and simultaneously use USB out from one to send midi to the iPad.

    Im not entirely clear on what your setup is trying to do, but if you hadn’t thought about those two things, might be helpful.

  • edited May 2021

    @Jazzmess That won't solve my MIDI issue. I'm fine with the audio routing and mixing as is. DT goes into DN, DN goes into iPad. iPad (if hooked up to DN via USB) sends audio back out of the DN outputs to monitors/mixer/whatever. If I use the soundcard, then the DT still goes into the DN, the DN goes into the soundcard, then the soundcard can go out to the monitors/mixer/whatever.

    @tsamba I'm not trying to sequence the DT and DN (they can play with themselves :) ), I'm trying to get them BOTH to sequence the iPad while sending sync/transport to whichever one is not the master. Using a MIDI cable between the two is exactly how they're hooked up to each other, but I also want one of them to be hooked up to the iPad via USB so I don't need to carry around another interface or merger box. Even if I use the soundcard and have everything wired via MIDI cables, it still won't send out what I'm trying to do properly.

    Here's how I see the MIDI tracks of the DN/DT combo being assigned.

    Device-MIDI Track-MIDI Channel
    DN-1-1
    DN-2-2
    DN-3-3
    DN-4-4
    DT-1-5
    DT-2-6
    DT-3-7
    DT-4-8
    DT-5-9
    DT-6-10
    DT-7-11
    DT-8-12

    All those should be able to control the iPad. If I plug the DT into the iPad via USB and the DN into the DT via MIDI, the DN can't send its tracks through the DT to the iPad UNLESS the DT also has tracks set to channels 1-4. Elektron boxes can't do MIDI THRU via the outputs, they need to have a channel assigned internally.

    EDIT: Got an answer on reddit. Using a USB hub, I can get the DN to send audio and midi, and the DT to send midi. It works, but in both AUM and Drambo I'm getting some wonky glitching.

    EDIT TWO: Upped the latency on the iPad and stopped sending the audio through the iPad. It helped. Just gotta watch the latency differential to make sure it's not too noticeable. Guess it's time to upgrade the tablet!

  • Have you considered using Bluetooth MIDI dongles on the DT? That's what I do.
    This will also let you use both MIDI ports (DT, DN) separately.

  • @rs2000 said:
    Have you considered using Bluetooth MIDI dongles on the DT? That's what I do.
    This will also let you use both MIDI ports (DT, DN) separately.

    You’re huge on Bluetooth midi. Are you still issuing the iPad built in Bluetooth for midi, or you using an external Bluetooth to midi adapter in the iPad to reduce the latency/send receive interval (which is rather large on iOS native)?
    Ive tried using 1 iPad as the sequencer with LK or multiple atom instances to send all midi to another. iPad as the sound source, and i get about 32-64 bars before things just start to fall apart.
    I was reading this blog post and wondering if dedicated external Bluetooth mini adapters in the iPads would be a better solution:
    https://thomasgerbrands.medium.com/the-truth-about-bluetooth-midi-54a3dc633052

    Particularly this paragraph of the article:

    ****When talking about latency of the WIDI technology you’d have to keep in mind we measure latency by using an oscilloscope. It is measured between two WIDI Masters. The lowest outcome is 3ms. The highest is 10ms. We measure an average on 5ms to 6ms.
    The latency on iOS and macOS came from the limitation of the Bluetooth connection interval. This is a rule set by Apple. On iOS it is 11.25ms minimum. On macOS it is 7.5ms minimum.
    Please note that these are “intervals” and not “latency” metrics. These intervals can cause latency and jitter due to the limitation of that buffer.
    ****

  • edited May 2021

    @AlmostAnonymous Yes, internal Bluetooth. If latency is super critical, you can always use a dedicated USB MIDI interface but I found it quite acceptable. My favorite use of BT MIDI though is for syncing devices over MIDI clock where you can eliminate the latency in iOS apps like Drambo, Audiobus 3 or Groove Rider.
    I tend not to use the DT MIDI features to control/modulate iOS apps because MIDI and BT are usually too limited for my taste (latency and 7bit resolution). I can perfectly understand people who want to make good use of the powerful DT MIDI control facilities though.

  • I have a dedicated iPad for the sequencing and hardware connected to actual midi ports on my MOTU other 2 are connected via adat. But sometime I just want 2 iPads sitting next to each other wireless. 1 sequencing, 1 sound source. And it just walls off after a while.
    I was syncing through 2 AUM instances. You’re saying Drambo is a far better at handling this?

  • edited May 2021

    @AlmostAnonymous AUM does not even support bidirectonal MIDI sync. How do you sync both iPads? LINK?

  • edited May 2021

    Link. All midi is 1 directional. Sequencing / midi iPad with all its Mozaic scripts/midi AUs
    The 2 iPads on adat only have the adat interface connected to them.
    Midi sent out network/Bluetooth session

  • edited May 2021

    @rs2000 said:
    Have you considered using Bluetooth MIDI dongles on the DT? That's what I do.
    This will also let you use both MIDI ports (DT, DN) separately.

    I still don't trust BT enough to use it. I managed to get it all working via the USB hub and upping my latency a bit. Works swimmingly. I plan on getting a newer iPad than my 2018 I'm on currently, so that will help. Honestly, I don't know if I'll trust fully wireless audio for a while. Especially given interference and shows and in public from other signals.

  • @slicetwo I wouldn't trust BT audio either but MIDI seems to work quite well as long as you don't transmit too much data.
    Interference can be an issue indeed. For live I'd rather use a wired setup too.

  • @rs2000 said:
    @slicetwo I wouldn't trust BT audio either but MIDI seems to work quite well as long as you don't transmit too much data.
    Interference can be an issue indeed. For live I'd rather use a wired setup too.

    The data thing would probably be an issue for me since the plan is to do a lot of sequencing of the iPad with the DN/DT as it's quicker for me to get ideas out. Then I can always record that MIDI to the tablet, but I don't want to be limited by bandwidth. Now I just need to decide between a 4th Gen Air with 256gb or a new Pro 11" with 128gb.

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