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Sequencers in 2021

I have been getting in to step sequencing recently after being drawn in by GR-16 and enjoying myself, despite not being someone who is particularly in to electronic music. This journey has led me to investigating the various sequencers available.

I have bought most of the sequencers that people have mentioned as being worth checking out and they all offer a few things that set them apart but many are pre-Drambo and so may have been replaced by the functionality in there. I have Drambo and can see it is a beast but have not set time aside to understand it yet so I am hoping to find out from someone experienced with the options on offer whether I should just invest time in learning Drambo rather than buying more sequencers that do certain things particularly well.

The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

Is there anything that Drambo particularly struggles with versus what is available? I’m sure it can do a lot of the basic sequencing tasks in its sleep but could I reproduce the cool ratcheting options in SPA, for example?

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Comments

  • I don't see much correlation between Drambo and Quantum or SPA. Sure, you can build just about anything in Drambo, but it's not like there's a simple or direct way to wire up anything similar to what you get with either of them.

    If you have miRack, there are a load of sequencers, each with a different take on sequencing to experiment with. Dunno if you've looked in there yet, but I can say I lost myself for the better part of a month plumbing them. Nothing useful came out of it, but I had fun.

    Gotta love Quantum though. It's a beauty. I don't use it much any more mainly out of laziness. I find I can fire up StepBud or midiDreams quicker and more casually, so that's what I end up using. If you take the time to get into it though, it can inspire some really different things, and is also a really fun thing to manipulate live.

  • If you have MidiDreams already not sure you really need Quantum unless you're hitting the limits of MidiDreams.

    For me the thing about a sequencer is less what can it do in theory, and more the UI. I really like certain sequencers because they make it really easy to do things, which means I experiment more, which results in better music. The moment I have to think about 'how to do something', much of the inspiration is gone.

  • @wim I had not considered miRack from a sequencing point of view so I will investigate. miRack, a bit like Drambo, is one of those apps that I’m worried I will spend some time with and then realise it can replace a load of apps I had already bought. It is a lesson I should probably learn sooner rather than later.

    @cian midiDreams is another one I have not investigated properly so I’ll check it out. I agree that there is a lot to be said for a good interface, especially on this platform. Part of my problem is wanting the sequencer to be good with drums and melody. SPA comes pretty close but it is the little things like lack of per-note velocity control (rather than per-step) which keep me looking for other solutions. Nothing that can’t be solved by bringing in other tools of course.

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    @wim I had not considered miRack from a sequencing point of view so I will investigate. miRack, a bit like Drambo, is one of those apps that I’m worried I will spend some time with and then realise it can replace a load of apps I had already bought. It is a lesson I should probably learn sooner rather than later.

    I learned the opposite sequencing-wise. I learned that none of the sequencers do it for me any better than easier to grab iOS sequencers. They're fun when I want to geek out, but not all that useful to me as regular tools. I had hopes that some of them would be magical. That didn't turn out to be the case for me.

    But they are all very unique and educational in their own ways, and are good to have when setting up patches in miRack.

  • @wim, @cian im curious about midiDreams. Do you use it for melodies or drums?. And how does it compare to Drambo’s sequencer?. One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.
    Drambo’s sequencer is powerful but I find it a bit cumbersome. You have to go into each step to do something as trivial as changing the velocity. Not the fastest workflow IMO.

  • edited April 2021

    I'd go all in on Drambo...I've used them all on iOS and I find that it is the one I keep turning back to day in and day out. It has everything I need to make the music I make on iPadOS. There's also a very helpful and vibrant community around Drambo, so any issue can be quickly resolved either here or on the BeepStreet Forum:http://forum.beepstreet.com

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @tahiche said:
    @wim, @cian im curious about midiDreams. Do you use it for melodies or drums?. And how does it compare to Drambo’s sequencer?. One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    I definitely don't use it for drums. I can't see that it would be any use for that. I don't think of it really for melodies either, I think o fit more like an arp, something for rhythmic/melodic motion. Maybe I'm using the term melody too narrowly here. I think of melody like something you would improvise on a keyboard or sing.

    Drambo’s sequencer is powerful but I find it a bit cumbersome. You have to go into each step to do something as trivial as changing the velocity. Not the fastest workflow IMO.

    Not for editing, for sure, but for capturing ideas I find it one of the fastest things out there. I can get a part up and going in nothing flat most times. But yes, I normally find re-recording it is faster than editing. Once Atom 2 integration with Drambo is at the next level, I think that'll be the ultimate composition tool in Drambo for me.

    So ... I'm getting less and less clear what you mean by "sequencer". A sequencer can be anything from something like Rozeta to a full blown piano roll, to a thing with lots of sliders and gizmos like Quantum. It sounded from your first post like you were interested in something analogous to an old hardware sequencer. Now I'm not so sure.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @tahiche said:
    One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    Yep.

    midiDREAMS MIDI CC inputs

    CC#0-CC#15, controls the 16 visible step sliders
    CC#16-CC#32, controls 16 steps of velocity if in orange step slider mode, otherwise pitch CC#32-47, toggles the 16 visible gate buttons
    CC#48-55, toggles 8 skip buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#64-71, toggles 8 last step buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#58, pattern down
    CC#59, pattern up
    CC#60, cycle through step slider display types (orange, yellow, green, purple)
    CC#61, move the display minus 16 steps
    CC#62, move the display plus 16 steps
    CC#78, trigger
    CC#79, current sequence step
    CC#80, sequence pitch
    CC#81, default velocity
    CC#82, default length
    CC#83, note speed
    CC#84, reset sequence
    CC#85, resync sequence

  • @wim said:

    @tahiche said:
    @wim, @cian im curious about midiDreams. Do you use it for melodies or drums?. And how does it compare to Drambo’s sequencer?. One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    I definitely don't use it for drums. I can't see that it would be any use for that. I don't think of it really for melodies either, I think o fit more like an arp, something for rhythmic/melodic motion.

    But it’s got a drum specific plugin, right?.

    So ... I'm getting less and less clear what you mean by "sequencer". A sequencer can be anything from something like Rozeta to a full blown piano roll, to a thing with lots of sliders and gizmos like Quantum. It sounded from your first post like you were interested in something analogous to an old hardware sequencer. Now I'm not so sure.

    I was actually thinking of drums... 😬
    From what I’ve seen MidiDreams is in the neighborhood of StepBud, cykle and so on. It does look good.

    @echoopera i agree with you, Drambo has it all. But, for example, I tend to do drums with Zenbeats drum sequencer and send it to Drambo. I find it a lot quicker to work with, it’s actually pretty good. As I said, it sort of bugs me to have to go into each step to tweak something. I asked in the Drambo forum for a “vertical swipe” to set velocity on a step, that’s the one that annoys me every time.

  • @tahiche said:

    @wim said:

    @tahiche said:
    @wim, @cian im curious about midiDreams. Do you use it for melodies or drums?. And how does it compare to Drambo’s sequencer?. One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    I definitely don't use it for drums. I can't see that it would be any use for that. I don't think of it really for melodies either, I think o fit more like an arp, something for rhythmic/melodic motion.

    But it’s got a drum specific plugin, right?.

    Oh yeah! I forgot about that! :D
    I haven't used it since the first day I bought the app. Could be good ... I dunno. B)

    So ... I'm getting less and less clear what you mean by "sequencer". A sequencer can be anything from something like Rozeta to a full blown piano roll, to a thing with lots of sliders and gizmos like Quantum. It sounded from your first post like you were interested in something analogous to an old hardware sequencer. Now I'm not so sure.

    I was actually thinking of drums... 😬
    From what I’ve seen MidiDreams is in the neighborhood of StepBud, cykle and so on. It does look good.

    My bad. I was going fast and only just now realized you weren't the OP. Pls ignore that comment. :D

  • @tahiche said:

    @wim said:

    @tahiche said:
    @wim, @cian im curious about midiDreams. Do you use it for melodies or drums?. And how does it compare to Drambo’s sequencer?. One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    I definitely don't use it for drums. I can't see that it would be any use for that. I don't think of it really for melodies either, I think o fit more like an arp, something for rhythmic/melodic motion.

    But it’s got a drum specific plugin, right?.

    So ... I'm getting less and less clear what you mean by "sequencer". A sequencer can be anything from something like Rozeta to a full blown piano roll, to a thing with lots of sliders and gizmos like Quantum. It sounded from your first post like you were interested in something analogous to an old hardware sequencer. Now I'm not so sure.

    I was actually thinking of drums... 😬
    From what I’ve seen MidiDreams is in the neighborhood of StepBud, cykle and so on. It does look good.

    @echoopera i agree with you, Drambo has it all. But, for example, I tend to do drums with Zenbeats drum sequencer and send it to Drambo. I find it a lot quicker to work with, it’s actually pretty good. As I said, it sort of bugs me to have to go into each step to tweak something. I asked in the Drambo forum for a “vertical swipe” to set velocity on a step, that’s the one that annoys me every time.

    Yeah...I find myself using Playbeat and DrumComputer for all my drummy bits in Drambo...

  • Just used collider for a synth. Should be cool for a synth.

  • edited April 2021

    Use miRack to make your own experimental sequencers. This is my favorite thing right now. Mix and match of clocks and sequential switches to generate gates that can run independent of note triggers. You'll have lots of fun like @wim said. Here's one from last night. Second video shows the sequencer.

  • Very cool, @auxmux. I respect anyone with the patience and interest to get deep into the nuts and bolts of synthesis in order to create something new.

  • I bought mididreams to compare it to quantum. Quantum allows a unique length and gate for each step. I’m not seeing that in mididreams. Am I just missing it?

  • That's very cool @auxmux . If I was able to get results like that I'd be all over miRack myself. Most of what I accomplished was just a bunch of random sounding gook. :D

  • edited April 2021

    Thanks a lot @NeuM and @wim. I'm loving nerding out about it. Here's another one, trying out boolean logic and such. This is a midi processor, which splits a single melody into 4 parts to sequence 4 tracks. 2nd video for session.

    I'll get around to uploading these to patchstorage soon, so others can play with them.

  • edited April 2021

    MidiSteps seems to be my GoTo StepSequencer now. Being able to record into it, and ‘‘manipulating’ its 3 sliders (wishing for more) live, sets it apart.. Was trying to replicate it in Drambo, but stuff like ‘reset and tie’ don’t seem to be there..
    Hope we get an update with a better preset browser and some iap banks would be nice, too..

    Edit.. actually wish for more stuff from the stand alone (IAA) would be brought over to the auv3 ...

  • @motmeister said:
    I bought mididreams to compare it to quantum. Quantum allows a unique length and gate for each step. I’m not seeing that in mididreams. Am I just missing it?

    I think Quantum came after Mididreams and is more fully featured.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    I think you're confusing MidiDREAMS with MidiSequencer. MidiSequencer is the older sibling of Quantum. MidiDREAMS is a recent app by a different developer.

  • @motmeister said:
    I bought mididreams to compare it to quantum. Quantum allows a unique length and gate for each step. I’m not seeing that in mididreams. Am I just missing it?

    Tap "LEN" to set the gate length of the steps.

  • @wim said:

    @tahiche said:
    One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    Yep.

    midiDREAMS MIDI CC inputs

    CC#0-CC#15, controls the 16 visible step sliders
    CC#16-CC#32, controls 16 steps of velocity if in orange step slider mode, otherwise pitch CC#32-47, toggles the 16 visible gate buttons
    CC#48-55, toggles 8 skip buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#64-71, toggles 8 last step buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#58, pattern down
    CC#59, pattern up
    CC#60, cycle through step slider display types (orange, yellow, green, purple)
    CC#61, move the display minus 16 steps
    CC#62, move the display plus 16 steps
    CC#78, trigger
    CC#79, current sequence step
    CC#80, sequence pitch
    CC#81, default velocity
    CC#82, default length
    CC#83, note speed
    CC#84, reset sequence
    CC#85, resync sequence

    Recording into MD will be a killer.. or maybe I am missing it..

  • @RajahP said:

    @wim said:

    @tahiche said:
    One last question... Can you switch patterns via midi Cc?.

    Yep.

    midiDREAMS MIDI CC inputs

    CC#0-CC#15, controls the 16 visible step sliders
    CC#16-CC#32, controls 16 steps of velocity if in orange step slider mode, otherwise pitch CC#32-47, toggles the 16 visible gate buttons
    CC#48-55, toggles 8 skip buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#64-71, toggles 8 last step buttons (note only first 8 steps on screen)
    CC#58, pattern down
    CC#59, pattern up
    CC#60, cycle through step slider display types (orange, yellow, green, purple)
    CC#61, move the display minus 16 steps
    CC#62, move the display plus 16 steps
    CC#78, trigger
    CC#79, current sequence step
    CC#80, sequence pitch
    CC#81, default velocity
    CC#82, default length
    CC#83, note speed
    CC#84, reset sequence
    CC#85, resync sequence

    Recording into MD will be a killer.. or maybe I am missing it..

    You're not. You can't.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @tahiche said:
    But it’s got a drum specific plugin, right?.

    So, played around with it a bit. It's very easy and accessible, but limited. No triplets or ratcheting for instance.
    I'll think I'll use it somewhat for getting beats up quickly. It's kind of like Rozeta XOX but where you can see all the tracks at once.

  • @wim said:

    @motmeister said:
    I bought mididreams to compare it to quantum. Quantum allows a unique length and gate for each step. I’m not seeing that in mididreams. Am I just missing it?

    Tap "LEN" to set the gate length of the steps.

    The LEN is the gate length, true, which is a percentage of the note length (1/4, 1/2, etc). You can set the gate length independently, but not the note length. The values (1/16, 1/8, 1/4, etc) below the line are universal. Setting it to 1/2 sets all Notes to that note length. The “Time” parameter for each step in Quantum sets the actual individual note length to a unique value.

    Mididreams isn’t bad, I don’t regret the purchase because it’s AU, but it doesn’t replace Quantum.

  • @motmeister said:
    Mididreams isn’t bad, I don’t regret the purchase because it’s AU, but it doesn’t replace Quantum.

    True, not even close.

  • @wim said:
    I think you're confusing MidiDREAMS with MidiSequencer. MidiSequencer is the older sibling of Quantum. MidiDREAMS is a recent app by a different developer.

    Yes, sorry. I was getting confused 😜

  • @motmeister said:

    @wim said:

    @motmeister said:
    I bought mididreams to compare it to quantum. Quantum allows a unique length and gate for each step. I’m not seeing that in mididreams. Am I just missing it?

    Tap "LEN" to set the gate length of the steps.

    The LEN is the gate length, true, which is a percentage of the note length (1/4, 1/2, etc). You can set the gate length independently, but not the note length. The values (1/16, 1/8, 1/4, etc) below the line are universal. Setting it to 1/2 sets all Notes to that note length. The “Time” parameter for each step in Quantum sets the actual individual note length to a unique value.

    Mididreams isn’t bad, I don’t regret the purchase because it’s AU, but it doesn’t replace Quantum.

    The TIME step-type in Quantum feels like magic.

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    The thing to grok about Quantum vs most other step sequencers is that in Q, the step is the most powerful/important unit, not the sequence. If you go for it, start to learn it with very short sequences (say 3-6 steps).

  • @syrupcore said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    The thing to grok about Quantum vs most other step sequencers is that in Q, the step is the most powerful/important unit, not the sequence. If you go for it, start to learn it with very short sequences (say 3-6 steps).

    Could not help myself and got it last night. Had a very quick play before sleep and I had instant problems with getting MIDI to sound from its own MIDI port. Weirdly I could see the note on/offs coming out but they weren't sounding, I think they were just instant on/off messages. Finally pointed it at AUM and that fixed the problem phew.

    First impressions is that it is very powerful. I do like the aspect of it that you call out here, that the step is the most important unit. This is per-step, per-lane as well which is important to me as it means I can adjust velocity for only that lane/step combo and means I can sequence drum velocities separately from synth lanes which was one of my main problems with SPA. I think I even saw that it has per-note modifiers for chords within a step.

    There are some interesting step articulations which are more musically useful than Thesys' performance options. Happily surprised to see mordants, trills and appoggiatura in there. Makes me think this was written to sequence lots of styles of music.

    Ratcheting was also available, though I could not see the nice SPA acceleration/velocity curve ratcheting as an option. Given that you can change the length of each step, I suspect it might be possible to approximate this more advanced type of ratcheting by manually changing the step lengths and velocities.

    Lots to dig in to this evening, including the MIDI-in recording option which for me was one of Thesys' USPs.

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