Atom | Piano Roll 2 is now available

wim

@Liudesis said: Maybe there are some gestures or something?

Not at this time, but improvements are planned.

rs2000

@blueveek said:

@zah said:

@wim said:
It's interesting. I've come around to no longer caring about a feature where you don't need to set the number of bars before recording.

The way around it is so utterly simple that its not worthy of an app modification IMO. One can just set a practical number of bars and save/recall that as a preset. Sometimes we get so obsessed about things of such small significance. I'm pretty sure the lifetime cumulative time wasted due to this feature not being there is an order of magnitude less than the time anyone has taken posting or reading about it.

Y'all can carry on noodling over this one. I'll just go 'n have some fun making music. ✌🏼

I've saved a (mostly empty) midi clip of 200 bars. It's easily doable - it's just nice to not think about it either.

I don't care either way - but what I would love to see is an "Export Loop Brace to MIDI"** option so that I could easily grab those noodling fragments and export/save in a flash.

You can do this in a few steps:
1. Long press loop brace to select all notes within it.
2. Clipboard > Copy Selected
3. Patterns > Add empty
4. Clipboard > Paste at start
5. Export

The upcoming 2.0.6 update will let you skip almost all of those steps:
1. Process > Crop to loop (or crop to notes, or crop to selection)
2. Export

But perhaps an "export" button for each snippet in the clipboard menu would also be nice?

I would like to suggest a much easier solution:
Export continues to work like it does now, except for one new condition:
Tap-holding the loop brace will select all notes within that loop brace that are shown in the piano roll.
If Export MIDI is hit after this selection and with the selection still active, only that part will be exported.
Simple and logical.

This might be extended to exporting any active selection.

rs2000

Just purchased Atom 2 btw.
Sorry for the dumb question - how can I edit pitch bend and modwheel in a pattern?

tk32

@rs2000 said:
Just purchased Atom 2 btw.
Sorry for the dumb question - how can I edit pitch bend and modwheel in a pattern?

Pitchbend and Modwheel support will arrive with the automation upgrade.

i.e. not yet supported

rs2000

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
Just purchased Atom 2 btw.
Sorry for the dumb question - how can I edit pitch bend and modwheel in a pattern?

Pitchbend and Modwheel support will arrive with the automation upgrade.

i.e. not yet supported

Oops - does that mean I can't even record my live keyboard playing?

tk32

@rs2000

Well I guess that depends how integral pitchbend and modwheel are to your performances, Mr Herbie Hancock.

...oh, and there's no support for sustain pedal yet, too, though I found this awesome (if slightly fiddly) interim workaround for capturing sustain...

rs2000

@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

tk32

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without CC/automation recording and editing... or later with it included, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

CC/Automation lanes is still planned/happening.

rs2000

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without automation... or later with automation, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

Automation is still planned/happening.

OK, I'll do my best to be patient once again. Already had to with Atom 1 🤷🏼‍♂️

marcuspresident

Just got the Atom 2 and at the same time i managed to get me another present, a Launchpad X. So far so good.
But to the Q now. Is there a way to launch audioclip with the LPX and or making vocals on the fly that is synced to a certain beat or so when noodling(in AUM)...?!

mbncp

Just figured out how to send text to my keylab essential keyboard controller

Anyone with a keylab ?
I'm thinking about using :

cat/char, Preset button :     Track Select prev/next
<-, -> arrows  :                Slot selection prev/next
<<  >>    :                      Pattern selection (if we ever get a function for it)
The stop button :                  Clear current pattern (dble-click or long press)
Play/Pause             
Record button :                   Arm
Loop 
Save :    ~~Not sure but while holding the save button, hit one of the pads, and it would assign it to that clip~~
Save state of all running clips is more interesting or optional.
Being able to send text to the controller is a big plus, can do a lot with a few controls

Text would show current track, slot and clip state, or info

just ideas
Too bad we can't use the big wheel. @Arturia

gusgranite

I hope > @rs2000 said:

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without automation... or later with automation, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

Automation is still planned/happening.

OK, I'll do my best to be patient once again. Already had to with Atom 1 🤷🏼‍♂️

It was a very clear request from the developer to the forum. Release now and wait for automation? Or hold back release until automation is completed. I voted to wait because I guessed that many who asked for immediate release would still not be happy until automation comes and I feared that support and feature requests would hamper that completion. However, the majority spoke and the developer listened!

espiegel123

@gusgranite said:
I hope > @rs2000 said:

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without automation... or later with automation, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

Automation is still planned/happening.

OK, I'll do my best to be patient once again. Already had to with Atom 1 🤷🏼‍♂️

It was a very clear request from the developer to the forum. Release now and wait for automation? Or hold back release until automation is completed. I voted to wait because I guessed that many who asked for immediate release would still not be happy until automation comes and I feared that support and feature requests would hamper that completion. However, the majority spoke and the developer listened!

And I think it has worked out. Most people using it, are getting some nice use and it out of it as the cc stuff is worked on...and also have provided some feedback that has made the app better for it.

gusgranite

@espiegel123 said:

@gusgranite said:
I hope > @rs2000 said:

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without automation... or later with automation, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

Automation is still planned/happening.

OK, I'll do my best to be patient once again. Already had to with Atom 1 🤷🏼‍♂️

It was a very clear request from the developer to the forum. Release now and wait for automation? Or hold back release until automation is completed. I voted to wait because I guessed that many who asked for immediate release would still not be happy until automation comes and I feared that support and feature requests would hamper that completion. However, the majority spoke and the developer listened!

And I think it has worked out. Most people using it, are getting some nice use and it out of it as the cc stuff is worked on...and also have provided some feedback that has made the app better for it.

Oh, it’s been awesome for us but I will defer to the developer on how it has been for him 🙂

RJB

.

mbncp

What can you do with a launchpad and Atom 2 ?
I see a note and chord layout, ok.
What does the custom layout ?
Can you create play states or things like that ?
Song mode ?

mbncp

mbncp

Btw, just had my first crash with Drambo (1.40), hope it’s due to my jscripting skills.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

charalew

@gusgranite said:

@espiegel123 said:

@gusgranite said:
I hope > @rs2000 said:

@tk32 said:

@rs2000 said:
@tk32 Thanks for the info!
Oh I wish I was but am I really the only keyboard player here using PB and modwheel? 😉

No - you're definitely not the only one.

You probably already know this, but Blueveek asked users on this forum to vote if they wanted Atom2 released now without automation... or later with automation, and they overwhelmingly responded 'now'.

Automation is still planned/happening.

OK, I'll do my best to be patient once again. Already had to with Atom 1 🤷🏼‍♂️

It was a very clear request from the developer to the forum. Release now and wait for automation? Or hold back release until automation is completed. I voted to wait because I guessed that many who asked for immediate release would still not be happy until automation comes and I feared that support and feature requests would hamper that completion. However, the majority spoke and the developer listened!

And I think it has worked out. Most people using it, are getting some nice use and it out of it as the cc stuff is worked on...and also have provided some feedback that has made the app better for it.

Oh, it’s been awesome for us but I will defer to the developer on how it has been for him 🙂

Yeah no worries. Democracy rules. The app is great but basically unusable for be without automation because everything I record has pitch bends but I'll just use Zenbeats for Midi until it gets implemented. Surprised though. Seems like a really basic feature though compared with some of the edge case stuff that's been requested in this thread. Barely understood some of it - the infinite Midi record etc. Think I assumed Atom 2 would be a superset of Atom 1 when I bought it but I'm sure it will get there in the fullness of time so whenever...

[Deleted User]

@charalew I see where you're coming from. From a players perspective there will be 3 things that might be thought of as intrinsic to keyboard playing. For synth players: pitch and mod wheel coz they've been part of hardware synths since forever more or less, and for pianistic players: sustain pedal. Been around for much, much longer.

However, they are the more common members of a bunch of extra controls that comes under the heading of 'not a note'.
Atom 2 has plans to edit ALL things that are 'not a note', but without the ability to edit those things, the programmer didn't want to add the ability to record them. So it ends up leaving those really common performance attributes out.

There was also some talk of adding a 'record everything that happens' mode which would have included those things, plus all the other parameters that people might want to assign to midi control, including MPE, but without the ability to edit that stuff yet. I think this was referred to as a black box model... you record it, but you can't get inside and tinker with it like you can with notes. I think I remember blueveek saying it wasn't a big deal to implement, but maybe he wasn't into it conceptually. I might be wrong on that so don't quote me.

I'm not sure if it's still being considered, but it would be a helpful in-between step for those who use those hardware controls that have been on most synths for decades, and pianos for over a century as an integral part of their playing.

From a programmer's perspective it might look different I guess.

[Deleted User]

@SimonSomeone said:
@charalew I see where you're coming from. From a players perspective there will be 3 things that might be thought of as intrinsic to keyboard playing. For synth players: pitch and mod wheel coz they've been part of hardware synths since forever more or less, and for pianistic players: sustain pedal. Been around for much, much longer.

However, they are the more common members of a bunch of extra controls that comes under the heading of 'not a note'.
Atom 2 has plans to edit ALL things that are 'not a note', but without the ability to edit those things, the programmer didn't want to add the ability to record them. So it ends up leaving those really common performance attributes out.

There was also some talk of adding a 'record everything that happens' mode which would have included those things, plus all the other parameters that people might want to assign to midi control, including MPE, but without the ability to edit that stuff yet. I think this was referred to as a black box model... you record it, but you can't get inside and tinker with it like you can with notes. I think I remember blueveek saying it wasn't a big deal to implement, but maybe he wasn't into it conceptually. I might be wrong on that so don't quote me.

I'm not sure if it's still being considered, but it would be a helpful in-between step for those who use those hardware controls that have been on most synths for decades, and pianos for over a century as an integral part of their playing. I guess you could argue that for every knob on a synth, but pitch and modwheel I think deserve a separate category as 'performance' controls.

From a programmer's perspective it might look different I guess.

charalew

@SimonSomeone said:
@charalew I see where you're coming from. From a players perspective there will be 3 things that might be thought of as intrinsic to keyboard playing. For synth players: pitch and mod wheel coz they've been part of hardware synths since forever more or less, and for pianistic players: sustain pedal. Been around for much, much longer.

However, they are the more common members of a bunch of extra controls that comes under the heading of 'not a note'.
Atom 2 has plans to edit ALL things that are 'not a note', but without the ability to edit those things, the programmer didn't want to add the ability to record them. So it ends up leaving those really common performance attributes out.

There was also some talk of adding a 'record everything that happens' mode which would have included those things, plus all the other parameters that people might want to assign to midi control, including MPE, but without the ability to edit that stuff yet. I think this was referred to as a black box model... you record it, but you can't get inside and tinker with it like you can with notes. I think I remember blueveek saying it wasn't a big deal to implement, but maybe he wasn't into it conceptually. I might be wrong on that so don't quote me.

I'm not sure if it's still being considered, but it would be a helpful in-between step for those who use those hardware controls that have been on most synths for decades, and pianos for over a century as an integral part of their playing.

From a programmer's perspective it might look different I guess.

I can see how this Black Box interim solution might have worked for some people but I'm with @blueveek on this one. I wouldn't use it unless I could edit the automation too🙂

monch1962

@blueveek I get that you can't set timelines and I'm fully onboard with the approach you're taking. Aside from bug fixes, have you got a broad set of features you intend to implement over time, and an approximate order that you plan to implement them?

In my case, it's MPE support that I'm waiting for. I'll happily wait for it to appear in Atom2, but if it's way down on your list I'll think about whether to use Ableton in the short term.

Thanks for a great product

mbncp

Sustain pedal, mod wheel and pitch wheel

NimboStratus

Question. Sorry if I’ve missed something but is there an option so you can scroll around without using two fingers but without selecting or adding notes? I keep accidentally adding notes and find scrolling with two fingers a little awkward. Perhaps it would be nice if there was a scroll mode added to the left. Thanks

tk32

@mbncp said:
Sustain pedal, mod wheel and pitch wheel

What's happening here? You forgot to include an explanation

blueveek

@RajahP said:
Can you record/export multi-channels in one instance?

That's a great question with a few answers. There's no limitations if you use multiple instances, however in a single instance:

• Importing multi-channel MIDI files will import each channel (track) into a separate pattern.
• Recording is one pattern at a time.
• Editing patterns while another pattern is playing is now implemented in the beta and should be made available pretty soon.
• Having multiple patterns play together in a single instance is planned and now possible with the latest beta architecture.

@reasOne said:
I’m just waiting to see the next phase of atom/drambo. 😎

All of the above will integrate super neatly in Drambo and patterns (scenes) between the host and Atom will stay in sync. There's a full overhaul of how patterns behave in the works, which makes single-instance multi-track or single-instance multi-scene workflows possible.

@eross said:
how’s the cc automation coming along?

Baby steps. Each new beta version and each new release makes an incremental architectural change towards that. For example, the latest release addsreceiveCC, receivePitchBend and receiveProgramChange, in addition to receivePolyphonicAftertouch and receiveChannelAftertouch, to the scripting sandbox. So a ton of stuff is now available with scripting, and more and more of that will make its way "to the surface" in the UI.

@mbncp said:
One little script question, I guess it's not possible to store some variables with current host project (song) ?
ok 2, are there any global variables, that another script could read/write ?

Global variables that depend on the project are are certainly a very interesting suggestion. I never would have even considered this myself.

Currently you can have global variables, just declare them outside each function. However, they're "static", as in you'll get the same ones each time you load a project. Perhaps a general-purpose key-value store could be made available in the scripting sandbox? Maybe this key-value store would be different for each project? How do you see this from a user's perspective?

@xor said:
I was playing around with a matrix of Atom 2’s in AUM and started thinking about sequencing them with a master sequence. Then I thought that I’d like to include some Drum Computer pattern changes too. Then I realized that I’d quickly run into unintended midi messages going the wrong au’s if I tried to sequence it all from the same master atom.

Do I need one atom to sequence other atoms and then a second for dc and then a third for aum (just thinking ahead for when atom gets automation support)? Basically an entire lane for master timeline-level sequencers?

You can disable "Thru" from each clip's menu in the top-left corner to make sure these triggers are 'swallowed' by each individual atom controlled by the master sequence. I pondered also making this automatic for the Launch note/cc/pc, but I've heard mixed opinions about it. What do you think?

@rs2000 said:

@blueveek said:

@zah said:

@wim said:
It's interesting. I've come around to no longer caring about a feature where you don't need to set the number of bars before recording.

The way around it is so utterly simple that its not worthy of an app modification IMO. One can just set a practical number of bars and save/recall that as a preset. Sometimes we get so obsessed about things of such small significance. I'm pretty sure the lifetime cumulative time wasted due to this feature not being there is an order of magnitude less than the time anyone has taken posting or reading about it.

Y'all can carry on noodling over this one. I'll just go 'n have some fun making music. ✌🏼

I've saved a (mostly empty) midi clip of 200 bars. It's easily doable - it's just nice to not think about it either.

I don't care either way - but what I would love to see is an "Export Loop Brace to MIDI"** option so that I could easily grab those noodling fragments and export/save in a flash.

You can do this in a few steps:
1. Long press loop brace to select all notes within it.
2. Clipboard > Copy Selected
3. Patterns > Add empty
4. Clipboard > Paste at start
5. Export

The upcoming 2.0.6 update will let you skip almost all of those steps:
1. Process > Crop to loop (or crop to notes, or crop to selection)
2. Export

But perhaps an "export" button for each snippet in the clipboard menu would also be nice?

I would like to suggest a much easier solution:
Export continues to work like it does now, except for one new condition:
Tap-holding the loop brace will select all notes within that loop brace that are shown in the piano roll.
If Export MIDI is hit after this selection and with the selection still active, only that part will be exported.
Simple and logical.

This might be extended to exporting any active selection.

That's pretty clever! I really like that. Since long pressing the loop brace already selects all notes within it, making the "export midi" button work only on selections if they're available would be trivial. Then, this would also work if you select individual notes (e.g. long press individual notes to add/remove them from a selection, which is also already implemented). It's really quite elegant. Thanks for the suggestion.

@marcuspresident said:
Just got the Atom 2 and at the same time i managed to get me another present, a Launchpad X. So far so good.
But to the Q now. Is there a way to launch audioclip with the LPX and or making vocals on the fly that is synced to a certain beat or so when noodling(in AUM)...?!

I think so (if I understand your question correctly). Pick another audio unit that can be triggered by MIDI, and use an Atom as a "bridge" between your controller and the audio unit with audio in it. Then, if you also want to sync everything up without worrying about quantum, use 'gate mode' from the advanced launch settings.

@mbncp said:
Just figured out how to send text to my keylab essential keyboard controller

That's super nice! Please consider sharing your script on patchstorage once you're happy with it.

I'm thinking about using [...] pattern selection (if we ever get a function for it)

Yup, this is now possible in the closed beta version. Will make this available soon, there's a huge overhaul of the patterns functionality in the works.

@mbncp said:
What can you do with a launchpad and Atom 2 ?
I see a note and chord layout, ok.
What does the custom layout ?
Can you create play states or things like that ?
Song mode ?

The custom layouts can be programmed to do pretty much anything you'd want. Check out the documentation on novation's website about flashing your controller with custom layouts. Then, scripting those to control atom should be a breeze, especially with your coding skills (your demos are seriously impressive).

@SimonSomeone said:
@charalew I see where you're coming from. From a players perspective there will be 3 things that might be thought of as intrinsic to keyboard playing. For synth players: pitch and mod wheel coz they've been part of hardware synths since forever more or less, and for pianistic players: sustain pedal. Been around for much, much longer.

However, they are the more common members of a bunch of extra controls that comes under the heading of 'not a note'.
Atom 2 has plans to edit ALL things that are 'not a note', but without the ability to edit those things, the programmer didn't want to add the ability to record them. So it ends up leaving those really common performance attributes out.

There was also some talk of adding a 'record everything that happens' mode which would have included those things, plus all the other parameters that people might want to assign to midi control, including MPE, but without the ability to edit that stuff yet. I think this was referred to as a black box model... you record it, but you can't get inside and tinker with it like you can with notes. I think I remember blueveek saying it wasn't a big deal to implement, but maybe he wasn't into it conceptually. I might be wrong on that so don't quote me.

That's a nuanced take on everything and I appreciate it. Architecturally, I'm making making incremental steps towards supporting automation, which provide value in every interim state. For example, a previous version (2.0.4) implemented CC passthrough. The current version (2.0.5, released today) adds more scripting functionality around non-note MIDI messages. Eventually, we'll probably get to MPE too, but there's a few more small incremental architectural changes needed in the engine to make that happen.

I'm not sure if it's still being considered, but it would be a helpful in-between step for those who use those hardware controls that have been on most synths for decades, and pianos for over a century as an integral part of their playing.

Exactly. I'm thinking hard about doing incremental updates which provide value for now, instead of dropping the full automation stuff all at once. Same with the work currently going on for patterns and Drambo integration, etc.

@NimboStratus said:
Question. Sorry if I’ve missed something but is there an option so you can scroll around without using two fingers but without selecting or adding notes? I keep accidentally adding notes and find scrolling with two fingers a little awkward. Perhaps it would be nice if there was a scroll mode added to the left. Thanks

I haven't heard about this so far. Are you tapping on notes before attempting to drag?
Perhaps a 'finger' tool would be good for only allowing drag and pinch operations, sort of like a 'safe mode'.

@monch1962 said:
@blueveek I get that you can't set timelines and I'm fully onboard with the approach you're taking. Aside from bug fixes, have you got a broad set of features you intend to implement over time, and an approximate order that you plan to implement them?

In my case, it's MPE support that I'm waiting for. I'll happily wait for it to appear in Atom2, but if it's way down on your list I'll think about whether to use Ableton in the short term.

Thanks for a great product

I have a huge Trello board with suggestions/planning cards, probably spanning in the thousands for now. Most of those are neatly categorized, and I have a pretty good idea and a carefully laid out plan for what to do next in the immediate future.

Publicly, what I feel comfortable saying is that an overhaul how patterns work and the single-instance-multi-instance dichotomy is going to get a lot of attention. Automation is also something that needs attention. Beyond that, I don't want to commit, because a lot of this is constantly evolving based on what I enjoy working on at any particular moment. Don't forget, this is a one-guy weekends-mostly hobby project, by necessity for now given the profit margins.

blueveek

Celebrating one month since the launch

Exactly one month ago, on March 15, Atom 2 was released. Thank you all for being early adopters.

Version 2.0.5 is now released, and should make its way to your country's store shortly. It includes the following:

• Enabled iOS 13 compatibility for Launchpad controllers.
• Added nonuplets, undecuplets and tredecuplets for quantization, swing, and general editing, in addition to triplets, quintuplets and septuplets.
• Added 39 new scales, grouped by their main mode, and including all of their corresponding modal flavors, for a total of 74. All scales are sorted with music theory in mind and ordered by their respective modal brightness, from “bright or happy” to “dark or sad”. The new scales include Double Harmonic, Persian, Neapolitan Minor, Neapolitan Major, Flamenco, Enigmatic, Octatonic Whole-Half Diminished & Half-Whole Diminished, Major Hexatonic & Minor Hexatonic, Whole Tone, Augmented & Six-Tone Symmetric, Prometheus and Tritone scales.
• Added Program Change clip triggers, available in the advanced launch settings.
• Added auto-routing support for the Akai MPK Mini 3 controller, which also serves as a simple example hardware script for adding your own custom routing.
• Added receiveCC, receivePitchBend and receiveProgramChange, in addition to receivePolyphonicAftertouch and receiveChannelAftertouch, to the scripting sandbox.
• Fixed an issue where controller scripts in would sometimes connect to the same ports twice.
• Added a “Disabled Animations” configuration that reduces motion.
• Added a “Reload UI” button for quickly reloading the configurations and styles.
• Revamped configs, styles and scripts menus, now with icons, sorting and helpful tips for getting the most out of user extensions.
• Now preventing accidental dismissal of the manual view when tapping on the background.
• Now presenting doorhanger menus modally, disabling input for the background.
• Better performance when opening various menus like Scales.
• Fixed sliders also scrolling containers, and "Process" toolbars appearing incorrectly on narrow screens (e.g. on iPhone in vertical mode)
• Layers now sorted by track.
• Default quantize toolbar strength now depends on the top-level quantize button.

NimboStratus

WOW! @blueveek yes a finger tool would be dreamy.