Why is ambient super popular (for iOS Producers)?

Gavinski

@Zerozerozero said:

@Gavinski said:
@bygjohn said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:
Yall know that mostly, a huge team of assistants made Pollocks actual, physical paintings, right? Somewhat comparable to making ambient with generative apps: it's irrelevant how something is made as long as the results are good. Also; fart noises.

No, this is incorrect. He ultimately stopped painting as his health declined.

You are completely right, I confused him with Warhols Factory! The point still kinda stands I think, nay?

Yeah, Warhol outsourced a lot. Jeff Koons has a large team of skilled craftsmen to create his ideas. Spectacular work nonetheless, I saw his show in Amsterdam many years ago.

Leonardo and lots of those guys also had “factories” with their assistants doing a lot of the work. Not a new idea.

Exactly. Again, what I said earlier, being informed matters when giving opinions (edit: people do need to distinguish between opinions and preferences).

This brings up another thread derail in how people are gauging expertise.
In an ideal world you’re right.
In a broader sense though In the internet age, lots of completly unqualified people espouse on things they have no expertise in but still convince large numbers of people what they’re saying is right.

This is not really a phenomenon unique to the internet - the Greeks were discussing the pros and cons of sophistry years ago. The internet can amplify it though. It also depends how one defines 'completely unqualified' and 'no expertise'. Even among experts there are differences in expertise, as well as massive differences in opinions and preferences. How do you define 'qualified enough'?

I can think of teachers I had at university who may have been qualified in that they were experts in their field, could write complicated papers etc, but were also unqualified in that they couldn't communicate their ideas in an interesting or accessible way.

I can think of youtubers who fall into a similar boat in terms of knowing a lot about their field but having dull delivery. The same goes for people in forums. We've seen in this very thread I'll-formed ideas thrown around with an excess of unwarranted confidence. Nobody is perfect and it's up to viewers / interlocutors to decide who is worth their time and who isn't. And that will be different for everyone as taste also plays a role.

This is an important point. If you don't like a YouTuber, for example, don't watch them. If you don't like your university lecturer, there's generally not much you can do about that. But it's also good for people to discuss things in a civilized way and try to change each other's opinions and preferences, as well as question their own assumptions. I've changed my mind on plenty of things as I've gone through life and I hope that 10 years from now my beliefs, opinions and preferences are not identical to how they are today, as that would mean I hadn't grown.

Luxthor

@bygjohn said:

@Luxthor said:

@bygjohn said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:
Yall know that mostly, a huge team of assistants made Pollocks actual, physical paintings, right? Somewhat comparable to making ambient with generative apps: it's irrelevant how something is made as long as the results are good. Also; fart noises.

No, this is incorrect. He ultimately stopped painting as his health declined.

You are completely right, I confused him with Warhols Factory! The point still kinda stands I think, nay?

Yeah, Warhol outsourced a lot. Jeff Koons has a large team of skilled craftsmen to create his ideas. Spectacular work nonetheless, I saw his show in Amsterdam many years ago.

Leonardo and lots of those guys also had “factories” with their assistants doing a lot of the work. Not a new idea.

In that logic, Midori is not an artist because someone else made the violin and composed the piece. Vladimir Horowitz is not an artist because he didn't make his grand piano and just ‘borrowed’ compositions from Chopin, Rachmaninov, etc.

I don’t really get the analogy here.

My point is simply that lots of artists in the past, many regarded as great, had studios full of assistants doing most of the work, just like some modern artists. So if Warhol is somehow dodgy because of his factory, so is Leonardo.

This is not an opinion I share: I don’t think having assistants invalidates an artist’s art. So attempts to use that to invalidate modern art are spurious in my opinion, unless you are prepared to invalidate more “acceptable” (usually old) artists as well.

I was referring to the logic of the post you replied to, yeah, I should elaborate on this better. Sorry!

I completely see your point of view, my intention was to emphasize it!

Luxthor

Also, the idea was to redirect the discussion at least on the musical side! 🫣

bygjohn

@Luxthor said:

@bygjohn said:

@Luxthor said:

@bygjohn said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:

@Slush said:

@ehehehe said:
Yall know that mostly, a huge team of assistants made Pollocks actual, physical paintings, right? Somewhat comparable to making ambient with generative apps: it's irrelevant how something is made as long as the results are good. Also; fart noises.

No, this is incorrect. He ultimately stopped painting as his health declined.

You are completely right, I confused him with Warhols Factory! The point still kinda stands I think, nay?

Yeah, Warhol outsourced a lot. Jeff Koons has a large team of skilled craftsmen to create his ideas. Spectacular work nonetheless, I saw his show in Amsterdam many years ago.

Leonardo and lots of those guys also had “factories” with their assistants doing a lot of the work. Not a new idea.

In that logic, Midori is not an artist because someone else made the violin and composed the piece. Vladimir Horowitz is not an artist because he didn't make his grand piano and just ‘borrowed’ compositions from Chopin, Rachmaninov, etc.

I don’t really get the analogy here.

My point is simply that lots of artists in the past, many regarded as great, had studios full of assistants doing most of the work, just like some modern artists. So if Warhol is somehow dodgy because of his factory, so is Leonardo.

This is not an opinion I share: I don’t think having assistants invalidates an artist’s art. So attempts to use that to invalidate modern art are spurious in my opinion, unless you are prepared to invalidate more “acceptable” (usually old) artists as well.

I was referring to the logic of the post you replied to, yeah, I should elaborate on this better. Sorry!

I completely see your point of view, my intention was to emphasize it!

No problem, I thought we were kind of on the same page, hence my confusion (doesn’t take much to confuse me!).

drez

So if you write a song...a really good song...but a band performs it...are you not an artist that was pretty important in that process? What if you aren't even in that band?

HotStrange

Is this gonna be the designated “argue about art” thread now? 😆 we can rename it “a place to vent” lol

drez

@HotStrange said:
Is this gonna be the designated “argue about art” thread now? 😆 we can rename it “a place to vent” lol

Since this thread was in an almost 3 year stasis state, I think it's allowed to be whatever it wants. Clearly it wants to reinvent itself from the box the OP tried to put it in. We are not the boss of it.

HotStrange

@drez said:

@HotStrange said:
Is this gonna be the designated “argue about art” thread now? 😆 we can rename it “a place to vent” lol

Since this thread was in an almost 3 year stasis state, I think it's allowed to be whatever it wants. Clearly it wants to reinvent itself from the box the OP tried to put it in. We are not the boss of it.

It’s sentient now. We’re here with it because it allows us to be.

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michael_m

@ehehehe said:
Damn this stupidity, more fart noises

Simon

@espiegel123 said:
Someone who doesn’t like jazz and is ignorant about it, can certainly say I like it don’t like some recording…but their opinion about whether it is jazz or good jazz wouldn’t carry much weight.

It might carry some weight amongst other people who don't like jazz. Maybe considerable weight..?

I guess that this is what I was getting at with my question. What you say is logically correct but I'm not sure the world operates too much on logic.

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Simon

@Slush said:
Jeff Koons has a large team of skilled craftsmen to create his ideas.

So he's really, a manufacturer? Like Tupperware?

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michael_m

@Simon said:

@espiegel123 said:
Someone who doesn’t like jazz and is ignorant about it, can certainly say I like it don’t like some recording…but their opinion about whether it is jazz or good jazz wouldn’t carry much weight.

It might carry some weight amongst other people who don't like jazz. Maybe considerable weight..?

I think the point was more about the subtleties and nuances within a particular piece, or an appreciation for the virtuosity of the players. Someone who doesn’t like jazz would find it difficult to articulate what makes a recording good or bad, and a very general opinion might not carry much weight.

At times I have heard people dismiss artists like Peter Brötzmann or Ornette Coleman as noise or random playing, yet their music is extremely difficult to master and very skillfully structured.

I’m sure the same is true of many other types of music. If I were to opine on Inuit throat singing styles I’m sure my opinions would not carry much weight with Inuit people.

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