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Eliminating noise when using CCK and external power
When I use my iRig HD 2 with a USB cable and the CCK with power going into the CVK’s lightning port, I have a horrendous amount of really ugly noise. The power is coming from an Anker powerbank plugged into the wall. (The same thing happens if the power is coming from other power chargers plugged into the wall, too.)
Anyone know how to eliminate this noise?
Comments
Do you have another audio interface to test the same setup with? Might be the iRig. If not, you might try running it off of a USB battery instead of an outlet. If that gets rid of the noise, you might have to try unplugging other items plugged into the same circuit (could be in another room entirely) until you find the culprit! I'm assuming the USB power banks you're using are already un-grounded. If not, a ground lift might do the trick.
If you unplug the powerbank from the wall outlet and the noise drops, then (most likely) the charging circuit generates the noise. There‘s a lot of switching going on in such circuits, which either falls into the audible spectrum or their harmonics do.
Grounding can also play a role as most devices are connected to PSUs with 2 pin connectors.
Some millivolt difference between supposed ground lines of 2 or more circuits may turn the „grounded“ noise into a signal. (simplyfied)
Thanks for the suggestions. The chargers are all ungrounded. Unfortunately, I don’t have another class-compliant interface with which to check. If I use a battery-powered power bank, things are quiet.
I have tried on a couple of different circuits. Most of our circuits various devices plugged in, so our AC may generally be pretty dirty. The FireWire audio interface on my Mac (MOTU 828) doesn’t have this issue.
Is there a solution other than not using a power source that is connected to the AC?
@espiegel123 Does this happen with nothing connected to the iRig? If it only happens with an instrument or other device connected, I wonder if there could be some sort of sneaky ground loop causing the noise.
Not sure if something like this would do the trick... SMAKN USB Isolator USB Digital Isolator Isolation USB to USB Industrial Isolator-Low Ripple - Isolation Speed Selection（400MA Isolated Power Output） https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07W54SFCG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_1P4aGbFDYEMQP
@espiegel123 noise and groundloops are a kind of universe which may even deny rules of logic from time to time... seemingly.
The suggestion to use a fully charged powerbank and disable the charging (by unplugging) serves the purpose to detect if the charger itself produces noise - as such circuits fall into the category „usual suspect“.
If disconnecting from AC stops the noise, then it‘s rather safe to assume that „better“ grounding will not improve things much.
But the latter may be possible (just not as likely).
Unfortunately this depends on your specific installation, starting with the house lines, cables and all electrical units that have a connection to your audio interface.
Imaginary example: if you monitor via a hifi-Amp, then the CD-player could be the culprit.
I have differences of 16dB in noisefloor level with the same interface/psu depending on where it’s plugged in.
This has happened with any iOS device and interface I’ve tried. I also get it when I try to charge while using the headphone adapter plugged into a sound system. It’s one reason I stopped using my iPad as an audio source on gigs. Switching power supplies and grounding issues for sure. When you charge from a battery bank, you’re eliminating a ground loop and its not ac, it’s dc. Supposedly the IK charging interface was supposed to be clean in this respect but I can’t say from experience if that was true.
Your motu 828 is grounded and does not have a switching power supply. Not that noise never happens in that situation, but it’s less susceptible.
My advice: give up and just get yourself a nice big battery bank. I use a 20,100mAh Anker one, and it has reduced noise to almost zero. I still get a little noise now and then from the fluorescent tubes in our kitchen lightning, but can kill those if needed.
I have spent countless hours and wasted a lot of money trying to get rid of noisy power in two homes now, only to completely fail. Battery bank into the CCK lightning port works whisper quiet every time.
This is very likely a problem with ground loop noise, it’s a common problem with audio interfaces (or audio gear in general) and not related to iPad (I first experienced this problem at least 15 years ago).
I used a cheap solution with socket extender without ground rod, but this might not be applicable to you if you’re outside EU not using plugs with ground rods, and of course: it’s on your own risk so I won’t recommend it. Currently I don’t experience such issue, maybe because my USB hub is somehow designed better, not sure.
So the real solution is to 1. use balanced cables, 2. sometimes you may need to use DI box, 3. sometimes just not using the same power extender and a separate electric socket in the wall will do the job. You need to separate the power source of audio interface and everything else.
More reading e.g. https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/211615185-Why-is-there-constant-noise-in-my-monitors-
Also, Anker products are terrible quality, I highly discourage people from buying this brand. Just a funny story from our company: We have 95% of computers newer USB-C Macbooks (project with ~ 200 people), so we obviously needed USB-C dongles. So the company bought for everyone some of the first USB-C adapters from Anker (not cheap, around 100 euro / piece). I already had an Apple USB-C dongle so I didn’t need that Anker one. Over the time I realised nearly everyone is complaining about terrible wi-fi issues I never had, they even had the same issues when switched to mobile hotspot. They blamed the new Macbooks as everyone with non-Apple computers (except of me) was fine on the same network. I only realised after I forgot my USB-C dongle and borrowed the Anker one from colleague. I immediatelly started having the same wi-fi issues when I connected HDMI cable into that Anker dongle. Then I googled a bit and found out it’s because of the faulty batch of Anker dongles which caused interferences with wifi when HDMI was connected.
Solution? Cover the adapter with tin foil. We had some tin foil in the office kitchen, so I gave it a try and voila - it worked, no wi-fi issues anymore.
After that, company bought a lot of tin foil and even after ~2 years, people are still having their Anker adapters covered with tin foil
I had good luck with Anker wall plugs and powerbanks. I have the same noise issue with iRig Pro IO and a very specific saxophone mic (Intramic), only with CCK3 and wall adapter. I’ve tried with lot of adapters, cables, and wall outlets. There is no issue on power bank, and no issue with same setup on laptop plugged to wall. I think it’s CCK3. I use 15000 mAh powerbank for now, not a big issue I’m even more mobile. There is also IKMULTIMEDIA proprietary solutions like IRig Pro IO wall plug or iRig Powerbridge which is supposed to eliminate noise:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigpowerbridge/
EDIT : this one is discontinued.
Thanks. I guess my post wasn’t clear. The noise happens with any AC power source...the Anker power bank, Apple-branded charger, any of several AC to USB chargers. The power sources are already ground-lifted as they only have two prongs.
I’ll see if balanced cables make a difference.
I didn’t think to test this with my computer. I’ll do that.
No noise when used with the computer plugged into a hub. But the noise is there if the same hub is used as the power source going to the CCK.
This has probably been mentioned but it is an Apple Camera Connection Kit correct?
Yes.
It's a general problem with the CCK. If you don't believe me, then use the exact same cables, but substitute a power bank for power. Some people are blessed with clean power in their homes so they don't notice it. But I don't recall many stories of people with dirty power successfully cleaning it up in their homes. We both live in California. Maybe it's a California thing.
If you're like me then you will have a tremendously hard time giving up the quest to eliminate it some other way. That's the last I'm gonna try to convince you.
I’ll use batteries when the noise floor is important.
Knowing that you have tried and failed to solve the issue with AC power will spare me going further down the rabbit hole.
For future reference, do you have any idea if some interfaces are less subject to the issue...at some point in the future I will probably get a another interface with stereo or more inputs.
Sorry, I only have an old model iRig HD and an even older Lexicon Lambda to test with. I could dig out the Lambda to see if it's better than the HD, but that wouldn't yield any useful info as far as the interfaces available now. Hopefully others will chime in.
A power bank is a DC source unless you’re not talking about a battery. Is it a multi output usb charger or a battery?
And are you playing guitar or bass through the irig HD? Balanced cables won’t help if you’re playing guitar as the output of your guitar is unbalanced.
If you really want to plugged into power, you could get an isolation transformer, but that’s at least twice the cost of your irig HD and maybe more. Probably best to just get a 20k mah battery, that will last a long time
I'm no expert in this area, though I have tried a lot of combinations -- and not necessarily knowing what I'm doing has never stopped me from offering advice.
I suggest an audio interface such as Focusrite 4i4 that has its own dedicated wall wart.
Along with the Focusrite, I use an Anker 10-in-1 USB 3.0 powered hub to power the CCK and to connect the Focusrite USB Audio/MIDI and other USB MIDI instruments to the CCK.
The result is clean enough for recording.
@wim I have the opposite problem with noise and the Apple CCK with iRig HD2 plugged in. It is dead quiet when I plug the lightning power cable into the wall wart or an independent power bank. But when I plug into a decent quality power bank that has two USB ports, I get a fair amount of static/noise. The second USB port is hooked up to a small amplifier that I have mounted in my acoustic guitar that power some actuators. That second port is running at low voltage since the amplifier draws very little even when fully "open". In fact, I invested in this particular power bank because it provides "trickle charging" instead of turning itself off when powering the small amplifier (as most of my power banks do). When I unplug either USB cable, it goes silent (obviously the amp goes silent when I cut the power). I assume that I have some kind of ground loop problem. Are there any cost effective ways to eliminate noise / ground loops / etc?
Beats me @lukesleepwalker - I bought a ground loop eliminator once and it didn't do squat. But that was before iOS came along.
If I was to guess, I'd blame RF coming from the amp and getting picked up by your guitar pickup. But it could be your power bank. If you have another power bank of any kind to try you can quickly eliminate that. If touching the guitar strings kills the buzzing then it's surely coming in though the guitar. If touching some metal part of the amp helps, that might tell you something too.
I suspect too that the low power output of the power bank could play havoc with the amplifier. Electronics can go weird with not enough power.
You could try replacing cables. Maybe there's a baddie. Or, maybe try stuff like putting the amp further away from the guitar, putting the power bank farther away from both, the iPad further away, wrapping the power bank or amplifier in foil (carefully - preferably with some foam or paper insulation first.)
Just guesses. Trial and error, and "eliminating what it's not" is the game here.
Alrighty, thanks for the tips. Some new "home science projects" to work on and one can never go wrong with "I'm playing with foil tonight!" Worst case, I can simply use two different power banks. If I hook up the iPhone to a different power bank then it's dead silent. That probably implicates that little 5W amplifier.
Did not read the comments, just wanted to state that I read somehwre that using a powerbank that is not connected to power itself, is the best way.
Amplifier inches away from pickups does sound problematic.
In this case it is grounding to the acoustic guitar and you.
The pickups are piezos. Totally passive
Maybe? The white noise occurs when I’m not touching the guitar at all
Oh, it’s not a buzzing or humming, it’s hissing? That changes things.