Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Impossible to sync ampify groovebox and beatmaker 3

Hi,

Ableton link is on, run audio background is on on groovebox, latency setted to 256 frames and sample rate 44100 Hz on Audiobus and on Beatmaker3
I wish to sync using "audio" not "MIDI" (as I'm not expert in MIDI use..)
I have used all possible combinations as first app running first, tried also to reboot before using audiobus .

ISSUE

  • Sync not accurate, "shift/drift" in the time, the problem occurs after 30scnd or 1-2minutes it depends
  • Often , BM3 is open and running, but in audiobus, BM3 selected as output is in sleeping mode, tape to launch, nothing happened..
  • Sometimes the same issue with groovebox
  • Often , groovebox is running but no sound
  • Often, BM3 crash

So basically I get the same sync issue using audiobus or not (BM3/Groovebox only via ableton link)..

Below some print screens .



So please, does normally sync should work for my purpose...?
How to make it happened...?
What is the procedure...? Because I have tried lot of variants I saw in the forum, nothing works...
I'm surely miss something..

Thank you,

«1

Comments

  • @arakatak Just checking. Do you always start Groovebox and BM3 manually (stand-alone) before connecting them in AudioBus? This is more reliable than allowing AB3 to start them.

  • edited January 11

    First disable all midi sync options on all apps, but leave only Link enabled.
    Then post back

  • edited January 11

    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

  • @uncledave said:
    @arakatak Just checking. Do you always start Groovebox and BM3 manually (stand-alone) before connecting them in AudioBus? This is more reliable than allowing AB3 to start them.

    Thanks for your answer, yes I have tried all combinations..

  • @Korakios said:
    First disable all midi sync options on all apps, but leave only Link enabled.
    Then post back

    Thanks for your answer, yes I did that also..

  • @arktek said:
    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you. had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

    Thanks for your answer, great..! I have not trying yet what you have described, and no, I don't need to record groovebox...I just need to use loops from BM3 to be sync with groovebox to jam and record into groovebox...Btw, after reading you, it gave me the idea, to try to import loops in blocswave and try to make sync groovebox and blocwaves....who knows...2 apps from the same developper..perhaps it should work...I will let you know.

  • @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:
    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you. had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

    Thanks for your answer, great..! I have not trying yet what you have described, and no, I don't need to record groovebox...I just need to use loops from BM3 to be sync with groovebox to jam and record into groovebox...Btw, after reading you, it gave me the idea, to try to import loops in blocswave and try to make sync groovebox and blocwaves....who knows...2 apps from the same developper..perhaps it should work...I will let you know.

    The blocswave approach could work too. But, if you're just trying to sync them together then I think you'll find running the apps on parallel channels will give you a pretty good starting point. The BM3 sampler is kind of nice to have in the mix.

  • Arakatak. Son of Arktek.

  • edited January 11

    BM3 syncing options (midi and link) seem broken as of the last update. Things drift over time.

  • I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

  • @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

  • @arktek said:

    @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:
    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you. had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

    Thanks for your answer, great..! I have not trying yet what you have described, and no, I don't need to record groovebox...I just need to use loops from BM3 to be sync with groovebox to jam and record into groovebox...Btw, after reading you, it gave me the idea, to try to import loops in blocswave and try to make sync groovebox and blocwaves....who knows...2 apps from the same developper..perhaps it should work...I will let you know.

    The blocswave approach could work too. But, if you're just trying to sync them together then I think you'll find running the apps on parallel channels will give you a pretty good starting point. The BM3 sampler is kind of nice to have in the mix.

    Yes right, would be nice to get BM3 sampler in the mix..but I have tried like you have suggested in parallel, sync setting on audiobus start/stop, all midi sync disabled, BM3 output sync to audiobus, same issue...BUT, it seems to work using groovebox/blocswave ableton link only without audiobus...Btw, thanks a lot all for your inputs.

  • @gusgranite said:
    Arakatak. Son of Arktek.

    Hahaha! Arak Attack is a Balinese cocktail..and also an horror B movie "Arac attack"

  • @AudioGus said:
    BM3 syncing options (midi and link) seem broken as of the last update. Things drift over time.

    Ok thank you, so perhaps in one year an update from BM3 should fix it..

  • There was an update to the link API that required app developers to update it (when iOS 14 was released). I did see a lot of apps specifically updating Link, but haven't seen anything yet for Beatmaker 3.

  • @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    Thanks for your input, great to know...I don't use AUM

  • @arakatak said:

    @AudioGus said:
    BM3 syncing options (midi and link) seem broken as of the last update. Things drift over time.

    Ok thank you, so perhaps in one year an update from BM3 should fix it..

    I have faith it will be sooner than a year.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

  • @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

  • @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:

    @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:
    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you. had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

    Thanks for your answer, great..! I have not trying yet what you have described, and no, I don't need to record groovebox...I just need to use loops from BM3 to be sync with groovebox to jam and record into groovebox...Btw, after reading you, it gave me the idea, to try to import loops in blocswave and try to make sync groovebox and blocwaves....who knows...2 apps from the same developper..perhaps it should work...I will let you know.

    The blocswave approach could work too. But, if you're just trying to sync them together then I think you'll find running the apps on parallel channels will give you a pretty good starting point. The BM3 sampler is kind of nice to have in the mix.

    Yes right, would be nice to get BM3 sampler in the mix..but I have tried like you have suggested in parallel, sync setting on audiobus start/stop, all midi sync disabled, BM3 output sync to audiobus, same issue...BUT, it seems to work using groovebox/blocswave ableton link only without audiobus...Btw, thanks a lot all for your inputs.

    Got to keep this arakatak / arktek thing going..👈.

    I noticed you said something about output sync in BeatMaker....The only thing you need to have going is Ableton Link. There is no need for MIDI sync, in fact I don't think BM3 will be doing much MIDI sync with Ableton Link in the mix...

    So, in AudioBus if you have one input for BeatMaker 3, you then put Groovebox on another input, You put Ableton Link Start/Stop on AudioBus, BM3 and Groovebox. Then hit play in AudioBus they should all start and play together. Then stop them all through AudioBus.

    So...the sequence of events:

    Start up BM3, in settings enable Ableton Link and turn off MIDI sync in and out. Enable background audio if it isn't.
    Start up Groovebox do the same things there.
    Start AudioBus. In settings enable Ableton Link start/stop etc. Don't worry about the MIDI sync settings.
    On one input select BM3. On another input select Groovebox.

    During this process you should get a green banner saying it has 2 links.

    Use the AudioBus play and stop buttons to control playback. They should all start playing together at this point.

    I'm pretty sure that's all to it.

    Let me know if this helps.

    I might need to put a picture together.....

  • @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

  • @arktek said:

    @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:

    @arakatak said:

    @arktek said:
    @arakatak not sure about Groovebox, but I tried this out with AudioBus, BM3 and Gadget. All were set to use Ableton Link. In this mode BM3 and Gadget don't use any MIDI sync. I started both of these programs before launching them in AudioBus. In AudioBus I have Ableton Link enabled. Using AudioBus to start/stop everything they all do what you would expect (and hope) they would do. Start/Stop is a bit sketchy in BM3 if using the BM3 controls to start stop (I am using the previous build of BM3 so not sure if this would be the same in the latest version). This all seems to work OK though. Oh yeah, background audio is turned on.

    Then I just re-read what you. had written regarding having BM3 in the Output position (so, you're wanting to record Groovebox into BM3?

    In my setup they are both loaded as Inputs and are playing synchronised. The output is the default system output.

    Thanks for your answer, great..! I have not trying yet what you have described, and no, I don't need to record groovebox...I just need to use loops from BM3 to be sync with groovebox to jam and record into groovebox...Btw, after reading you, it gave me the idea, to try to import loops in blocswave and try to make sync groovebox and blocwaves....who knows...2 apps from the same developper..perhaps it should work...I will let you know.

    The blocswave approach could work too. But, if you're just trying to sync them together then I think you'll find running the apps on parallel channels will give you a pretty good starting point. The BM3 sampler is kind of nice to have in the mix.

    Yes right, would be nice to get BM3 sampler in the mix..but I have tried like you have suggested in parallel, sync setting on audiobus start/stop, all midi sync disabled, BM3 output sync to audiobus, same issue...BUT, it seems to work using groovebox/blocswave ableton link only without audiobus...Btw, thanks a lot all for your inputs.

    Got to keep this arakatak / arktek thing going..👈.

    I noticed you said something about output sync in BeatMaker....The only thing you need to have going is Ableton Link. There is no need for MIDI sync, in fact I don't think BM3 will be doing much MIDI sync with Ableton Link in the mix...

    So, in AudioBus if you have one input for BeatMaker 3, you then put Groovebox on another input, You put Ableton Link Start/Stop on AudioBus, BM3 and Groovebox. Then hit play in AudioBus they should all start and play together. Then stop them all through AudioBus.

    So...the sequence of events:

    Start up BM3, in settings enable Ableton Link and turn off MIDI sync in and out. Enable background audio if it isn't.
    Start up Groovebox do the same things there.
    Start AudioBus. In settings enable Ableton Link start/stop etc. Don't worry about the MIDI sync settings.
    On one input select BM3. On another input select Groovebox.

    During this process you should get a green banner saying it has 2 links.

    Use the AudioBus play and stop buttons to control playback. They should all start playing together at this point.

    I'm pretty sure that's all to it.

    Let me know if this helps.

    I might need to put a picture together.....

    That was exactely what I have already test few hours ago...same issue......as I said previously I can make it without audiobus using Ableton link with groovebox and blocswave..such a pity for BM3...but that's not really important for me at this moment..I'm just wondering for what I bought audiobus "connect your music apps" yes maybe but never with apps I use or there's always the "particular case" that make it not functionnal...and as you have multiple apps involved, app support person will most of the case say that the culprit is the other...so no end...

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

  • @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

    Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

  • @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

    Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

    I'll check again and let it run. After 3 minutes in my earlier test, there had been no drift at all by BeatMaker -- so, I will be surprised if it suddenly starts drifting. By that time, Groovebox had drifted enough for it to be noticeable (though Groovebox wasn't terribly terribly out of sync).

  • edited January 12

    @espiegel123 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

    Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

    I'll check again and let it run. After 3 minutes in my earlier test, there had been no drift at all by BeatMaker -- so, I will be surprised if it suddenly starts drifting. By that time, Groovebox had drifted enough for it to be noticeable (though Groovebox wasn't terribly terribly out of sync).

    I have not tested Link a ton with BM3 lately (although with maschine it certainly is not syncing / not sure the fault there, haven’t tested enough)

    It seems like BM3 does have confirmed issues with midi sync with other more timeline based clocks. Theory: loop based ones may not exhibit it as much?

    Anywho, I have been able to repro this with other clocks aside from just Samplitude (which as far as I can tell has rock solid midi clock)...

  • @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

    Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

    I'll check again and let it run. After 3 minutes in my earlier test, there had been no drift at all by BeatMaker -- so, I will be surprised if it suddenly starts drifting. By that time, Groovebox had drifted enough for it to be noticeable (though Groovebox wasn't terribly terribly out of sync).

    I have not tested Link a ton with BM3 lately (although with maschine it certainly is not syncing / not sure the fault there, haven’t tested enough)

    It seems like BM3 does have confirmed issues with midi sync with other more timeline based clocks. Theory: loop based ones may not exhibit it as much?

    Anywho, I have been able to repro this with other clocks aside from just Samplitude (which as far as I can tell has rock solid midi clock)...

    Since this post was about Ableton link, I am just using Ableton link in this test. My tests involve both a loop and a MIDI track that has quarter notes.

    I just finished a test where I let it run for 5 minutes. BM stayed strictly in sync. Groovebox had drifted 140 ms late at that point. At 2 minutes 30 seconds it was in the ballpark of 60 ms late.

    This was setup with Audiobus, BM3 and Groovebox and Twisted Wave. The output of BM3 and Groovebox were hard panned to opposite sides and send to Twisted Wave for recording Only Ableton Link. No clock sending or receiving by any of the apps. Since this is consistent with yesterdays test with AUM where I could precisely sync record start with link, I think it is a strong indication that in this scenario the issue is Groovebox not synching super tight.

    Using Auditor to look at the recording made in Twisted Wave, it is easy to see that BeatMaker stays on tempo since Auditor lets you view the timeline based on BPM. The BeatMaker hits stay lined up with the beats on the timeline from start to finish. By the end Groovebox is about 1/16th note late.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @arakatak said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Gravitas said:
    I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
    AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
    AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

    BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

    @arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

    I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

    Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

    Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

    I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

    Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

    For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

    Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

    Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
    that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

    One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

    Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

    I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

    When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

    Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

    I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

    Are you using the latest of each?

    Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

    I'll check again and let it run. After 3 minutes in my earlier test, there had been no drift at all by BeatMaker -- so, I will be surprised if it suddenly starts drifting. By that time, Groovebox had drifted enough for it to be noticeable (though Groovebox wasn't terribly terribly out of sync).

    I have not tested Link a ton with BM3 lately (although with maschine it certainly is not syncing / not sure the fault there, haven’t tested enough)

    It seems like BM3 does have confirmed issues with midi sync with other more timeline based clocks. Theory: loop based ones may not exhibit it as much?

    Anywho, I have been able to repro this with other clocks aside from just Samplitude (which as far as I can tell has rock solid midi clock)...

    Since this post was about Ableton link, I am just using Ableton link in this test. My tests involve both a loop and a MIDI track that has quarter notes.

    I just finished a test where I let it run for 5 minutes. BM stayed strictly in sync. Groovebox had drifted 140 ms late at that point. At 2 minutes 30 seconds it was in the ballpark of 60 ms late.

    This was setup with Audiobus, BM3 and Groovebox and Twisted Wave. The output of BM3 and Groovebox were hard panned to opposite sides and send to Twisted Wave for recording Only Ableton Link. No clock sending or receiving by any of the apps. Since this is consistent with yesterdays test with AUM where I could precisely sync record start with link, I think it is a strong indication that in this scenario the issue is Groovebox not synching super tight.

    Using Auditor to look at the recording made in Twisted Wave, it is easy to see that BeatMaker stays on tempo since Auditor lets you view the timeline based on BPM. The BeatMaker hits stay lined up with the beats on the timeline from start to finish. By the end Groovebox is about 1/16th note late.

    Awesome, thanks for the breakdown. Now I feel that Maschine may really be at fault on the Link side and will try with other apps to be sure. Can you recommend another solid Link app on iOS (aside from BM3)?

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