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O.T.: An extraordinarily dark day in American history...

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Comments

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @michael_m said:
    Regardless of the rhetoric that will undoubtedly follow the usual pattern over the next few days, this will seal Trump’s place in history as the most inept and un-American President ever elected to office.

    Luckily in this case there IS evidence to back those claims up. He’s presenting evidence like that since he was very young. The family history is not at all surprising, it is all textbook stuff when narcissistic personality disorder is involved. That doesn’t excuse any action he’s ever done, it just provides context.

    There is starting to be discussion of removing him from office now, I don’t know if it will go anywhere but his actions today seem to have finally been one step too many (sad that 20,000 steps ago was already one too many). We will see, but Mike Pence’s statement tonight was pretty powerful. I don’t have to agree with his politics or ideals to recognize that. I do think Trump is going to try to throw Pence under the bus (he’s already tried so that’s not a big stretch I’m making) and will wish he hadn’t done that.

    The blood and the damage to America’s democracy today is on his hands.

    He seems to think that his office makes him invincible, but I really hope he gets his comeuppance for all the crimes he has committed.

  • I can't get rid of the impression that the U.S. politics of fear since decades combined with lack of good education available for everyone now show their effect.

  • edited January 7

    Trump and his movement blew themselves up today. Yes, the cancerous core will continue, but Trump will be abandoned, financially hounded, certainly indicted and possibly imprisoned. He will be treated with no mercy because he has made many, many enemies.

    New York doesn’t want him, Palm Beach doesn’t want him, Scotland doesn’t want him, Putin, Xi, MBS, Erdogan don't want him. Melania doesn’t want him, his kids don't want him. No dog wants him.

    Today’s events were horrific, but the domestic terrorists were cheated of martyrs, which they so wanted. There is video of every miscreant. When Biden comes in there will be many prosecutions.

    This is a watershed moment. The Proud Boys and their ilk will no longer have a godfather in the WH. An enraged FBI will track them down and crush them. And every right leaner with a shred of decency will turn away from the dumpster fire that is Donald Trump. After all, no one likes a loser. And let us not forget the indelible defeat of Trumpism in Georgia, my home town.

    Mark my words.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Trump and his movement blew themselves up today. Yes, the cancerous core will continue, but Trump will be abandoned, financially hounded, certainly indicted and possibly imprisoned. He will be treated with no mercy because he has made many, many enemies.

    New York doesn’t want him, Palm Beach doesn’t want him, Scotland doesn’t want him, Putin, Xi, MBS, Erdogan don't want him. Melania doesn’t want him, his kids don't want him. No dog wants him.

    Today’s events were horrific, but the domestic terrorists were cheated of martyrs, which they so wanted. There is video of every miscreant. When Biden comes in there will be prosecutions.

    This is a watershed moment. The Proud Boys and their ilk will no longer have a godfather in the WH. An enraged FBI will track them down. And every right leaner with a shred of decency will turn away from the dumpster fire that is Donald Trump. After all, no one likes a loser.

    Mark my words.

    I agree and sure hope you are right.

  • I'm hopeful for the future of the country. I think this is a terrible moment with people who were made vulnerable by an uncaring system, being manipulated by a classic New York criminal. I think we as a nation have overcome much more tumultuous events than this and this will hopefully embitter the odor of fascism to all so we can sniff and snuff it out.

    As this is a music forum, I'd like to leave a song from a couple of hard-working Americans

  • Me too. He has a reputation like the Teflon Don so far, but I hope it all catches up to him and his crimes are brought to bear against him.

  • From the other side of the world... I feel for all of you. As awful as all of this is I cant help but think this (as others have mentioned) will do him more harm than good. I hope so for America's and the rest of the worlds sake.

  • edited January 7

    I feel bad replying when a girl was shot but if she supported Trump. Maybe she liked that there seemed to be less troops being killed and less guilt of people being killed for lies. Less mass shootings. She wondered how someone who was part of a government for profit and death, won the most popular vote in history. She sees about 10 articles per day outling voter fraud that suggests democracy is fake. She suspected covid probably came about under dubious cicumstances. She wondered how intelligence agencies and politicians who have enriched themselves have a planet covered in satelites to bring about a special council to suggest Trump was a Russian agent ( even though the fbi falsified plenty ) Then impeached for a discussion about Biden, where later it suggests Biden bought bollox to the Ukraine. For her sake we hope Trump wasnt just an actor along with the others because in reality. What you are missing is that the others are still around.

  • @Max23 said:

    @Poppadocrock said:
    I don’t want this forum to get political at all but regardless of which side you are on this is absolutely terrible.

    the whole world is shaking its head when watching news out of the USA.
    news out of some banana republic you never heard of dont sound any different. :'(
    walls, children in cages, over 300.000 dead, civil unrest, ,lies, lies & more lies ...
    I never thought I would live in a world where this could happen.

    +1

    A day of infamy which will be forever remembered just like Dec 7, 1941. Hopefully, the intellectual and clear-sighted part of the US population regardless of political origin can restore faith in this once great nation.

    Regards,
    DMfan🇸🇪

  • Is it i'll informed of me to propose that what is happening at present (i.e. Proud Boys and their ilk) would not be possible in a place with a higher proportion of informed citizens with an augmented ability to think (and possibly understand) for themselves?

  • You’ll excuse me if I don’t weep for those politicians today. Maybe if they sent out the $2000 checks to out of work hurting families instead of sending the vast majority of a “covid relief bill” overseas people wouldn’t be so pissed off. But after 10 months of lockdowns and rioters burning and looting.... I’m all out of sympathy. The lamenting about our “democracy” is hilarious.

  • @Apex said:
    You’ll excuse me if I don’t weep for those politicians today. Maybe if they sent out the $2000 checks to out of work hurting families instead of sending the vast majority of a “covid relief bill” overseas people wouldn’t be so pissed off. But after 10 months of lockdowns and rioters burning and looting.... I’m all out of sympathy. The lamenting about our “democracy” is hilarious.

    100% agree. Politicians and anyone who blocked the clean bill for the extra $1400 in relief can kick rocks.

  • These riots were despicable but I can’t blame the rioters for doing what they did. The president, conservative media, and GOP congressman fed them a constant stream of complete garbage and lies to manipulate them for the sole purpose of making money. They should all be removed from office by their own colleagues for enabling and encouraging this to happen (I’m looking at you Ted Cruz, my own senator) and have all professional licenses revoked/disbarred/whatever.

    One (of many) sad part about all of this is that some of those rioters will be prosecuted yet the congressman will get away scot-free despite them encouraging this. This exact division between the political class and rest of us is why some people voted for Trump. The $1,200 and $600 “stimulus” checks (ESPECIALLY the $600) was a blatant slap-in-the-face to us all and showed us exactly what they thought of us. This type of stuff is what creates Trumpers.

    BOTH sides have lost touch with the average American.

    Sorry if this sounds disjointed, but I just discussed this with my dad as we were watching this and we touched on a million different topics but those are the highlights of it.

    Overall, a terrible day for America. Trump must be impeached today or else the next “Trump” that gets elected will pull a successful coup based on the mistakes that Trump. Impeachment will show the world that the US institutions are stronger than this.

  • @Apex said:
    You’ll excuse me if I don’t weep for those politicians today. Maybe if they sent out the $2000 checks to out of work hurting families instead of sending the vast majority of a “covid relief bill” overseas people wouldn’t be so pissed off. But after 10 months of lockdowns and rioters burning and looting.... I’m all out of sympathy. The lamenting about our “democracy” is hilarious.

    Most don’t find it that funny. Regardless of whatever bills were voted into law and what they contained, they were done under democratic procedures - that’s just the way it works. Trying to prevent a democratic process from completing because you’re sore about losing IS an assault on democracy.

    Cater to mob rule when they’re in a minority and democracy means nothing. The more ground given to these people, the more we slip into anarchy.

  • BOTH sides have lost touch with the average American.

    Somewhat disagree here. Only one side was against relief and it wasn't the one Trump and his cronies is aligned with.

  • We may sound confident when we voice our opinions here (myself included)...we may like the sound of our own words.... it feels good to write cogently and express our ideas... this reminds me of the Indiana Jones movie... where the master swordsman displays his martial virtuosity as he advances on Harrison Ford with mighty feints, swirls and parries. It is impressive, adroit, expert, facile... then Ford simply lifts his pistol and shoots the “master” down.

    I fear this is us and our discussion of politics, the motivations of shot women, the evil on both sides of the divide and our (my) desire for vengeance on those who committed a variety of rape on my precious “Temple of Democracy”.

    This is what we do and exactly what the fucking Congress is doing... from Mitt Romney to Lindsay Graham to Josh fucking Hawley. We are in love with our own voices. Meanwhile... and I managed to miss this little detail in my earlier post (being in love with my own blather)... as we rant this way or that there is a madman in the Oval Office plotting his next move and no politician, not one, is saying this traitorous, treacherous psychopath must be dealt with IMMEDIATELY! He must be removed from office not in two weeks, but this moment. That our representatives do not stand up as one and demand this is testimony to our irreparable idiocy and self involvement.

    Well, hang onto your yarmulkes, my friends, cause his finger is on the trigger.

  • So true, Mike.

    I’m glad I decided to start this thread. At first I thought perhaps it might bring the rath of evil, but that was never my intention.

    I’m so proud of our forum member’s ability to have an engaging, thoughtful discussion of the situation with a minimum of reactionist Trump-speak.

    If you are in the later group, do feel free to express your opinions — just as you would about an app you may love (or hate).

    Spirited discussion always result in a new understanding of opinions that vary from the norm, but that doesn’t necessarily make them wrong.

  • edited January 7

    @Moderndaycompiler said:
    Meanwhile last summer we saw this for BLM protests...

    THIS !! Exactly this was first thing which came to my mind... The vague response is sympthomatic and shows that point of BLM protests ws very true... There are 2 kind of law in US, based on skin color. Very, very sad...

    Holding fingers crossed for all good wise people in US, hope you manage clear that mess and make america really great again, after Donald Dumb will be definitely pulled away...

    And hope that stupid Yellow head ends eventually in jail, he belongs there.

  • edited January 7

    I am not an american citizen, so please forgive my ignorance.
    It is a sad day for democracy. I am not talking specifically about american democracy but about Democracy with a D. If this event helps opening some American people's eyes to this concern, then people's death will not be in vain, no matter the side.
    America is usually very proud to have brought democracy to the world. But take a look at how your kid has been treated all over the world. European Ultra nationalist parties getting stronger and stronger and waiting patiently for their turn. The Parody of elections in many African countries over the last few months. What to say about so called democracy in southeast Asia countries like Thailand ? What about Hong Kong's opposition leaders disappearance ? The list of offenses made to your child all over the world is endless. You even let your own child being molested with consent for your own good...
    14 days... And then what ?
    No doubt that Trump will eventually be removed from the office, he made too many enemies during his mandate. It might get violent. Let's hope people will be wise enough, but Who knows... So many things can happen in 14 days. In 14 days, a virus can mutate and cross infect species and become a pandemic.
    The day Biden will enter the White House will be a great day for us all. But don't expect too much. Can you stop the bleeding from a gaping wound with a small plaster ? Numbers speak for themselves. Many people broke in tears of joy in 2008 when Obama gathered 69.5 millions of votes. And In 2020, Biden broke the record again with more than 81 millions. But hey... Trump broke Obama's record too with more than 74 millions voters. I am not an expert but from an outsider point of view, it seems that America has never been more divided since the dark days of civil War.
    Respect your enemy as much as your friend. Isn't it what we all need, respect ?

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Trump and his movement blew themselves up today. Yes, the cancerous core will continue, but Trump will be abandoned, financially hounded, certainly indicted and possibly imprisoned. He will be treated with no mercy because he has made many, many enemies.

    New York doesn’t want him, Palm Beach doesn’t want him, Scotland doesn’t want him, Putin, Xi, MBS, Erdogan don't want him. Melania doesn’t want him, his kids don't want him. No dog wants him.

    Today’s events were horrific, but the domestic terrorists were cheated of martyrs, which they so wanted. There is video of every miscreant. When Biden comes in there will be many prosecutions.

    This is a watershed moment. The Proud Boys and their ilk will no longer have a godfather in the WH. An enraged FBI will track them down and crush them. And every right leaner with a shred of decency will turn away from the dumpster fire that is Donald Trump. After all, no one likes a loser. And let us not forget the indelible defeat of Trumpism in Georgia, my home town.

    Mark my words.

    That’s how I’m feeling about it, it kind of feels like we witnessed the beginning of the death of the Republican Party today with these disgusting actions

  • Excellent points, @JanKun.

    Democracy is a battle that must be fought for on a daily basis. It is a fragile entity.

    It’s not just America that has it’s democracy in danger. The right-wing extremists are gaining power exponentially via social media — where hate is rewarded when it is profitable to the social media companies.

    Hopefully the events in Washington are a wake-up call to the world that democracy is something that needs to be nourished, defended, and celebrated.

  • what do you expect from such. a guy
    "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Trump remarked at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa. "It's, like, incredible."

  • @SimonSomeone said:
    Polarised people on either side are dangerous. Today's right wing idiots, the anarchist thugs rioting for months in Portland (after dark, when the peaceful protestors and media have left) etc. People were shot there too in violence at the autonomous zone.

    The rhetoric of both-sidesism is erroneous. In the U.S. there are not two equally large and equally irrational parties in opposition. The American right has drifted very far to the right. People called moderate now, would have been considered fringe reactionaries 25 years ago. The pandemic has laid bare the American right’s drift from reasonableness.

    There are not large numbers of anarchist thugs on the left. The American right strongly supports Trump with only a minority of dissenters and is a far greater threat to the polity.

    There is no parity.

  • Time for the 25th.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    We may sound confident when we voice our opinions here (myself included)...we may like the sound of our own words.... it feels good to write cogently and express our ideas... this reminds me of the Indiana Jones movie... where the master swordsman displays his martial virtuosity as he advances on Harrison Ford with mighty feints, swirls and parries. It is impressive, adroit, expert, facile... then Ford simply lifts his pistol and shoots the “master” down.

    I fear this is us and our discussion of politics, the motivations of shot women, the evil on both sides of the divide and our (my) desire for vengeance on those who committed a variety of rape on my precious “Temple of Democracy”.

    This is what we do and exactly what the fucking Congress is doing... from Mitt Romney to Lindsay Graham to Josh fucking Hawley. We are in love with our own voices. Meanwhile... and I managed to miss this little detail in my earlier post (being in love with my own blather)... as we rant this way or that there is a madman in the Oval Office plotting his next move and no politician, not one, is saying this traitorous, treacherous psychopath must be dealt with IMMEDIATELY! He must be removed from office not in two weeks, but this moment. That our representatives do not stand up as one and demand this is testimony to our irreparable idiocy and self involvement.

    Well, hang onto your yarmulkes, my friends, cause his finger is on the trigger.

    We must remain vigilant. The American right represents a minority of the population but has disproportionate power which is not going away due to the structure of our government. The 50 Democratic senators represent 40 million more people than the 50 Republican senators. Despite winning the popular vote for presidency only one time since 1992, they have appointed 6 of the 9 justices on the Supreme Court and 40% of the judiciary. Despite losing the popular vote by 7 million...Trump would have been re-elected with simply a total of 90,000 more votes divided between a few states.

    Hitler’s first attempt at seizing power failed. He and others got smarter about how to take control of the government and managed to get themselves invited to do it. This isn’t over.

  • Ha!

    That would require Pence to receive spinal implant surgery.

    That might perhaps have been possible a year ago, but since Donnie has totally F'ed up our COVID response, such elective surgery is no longer an option.

    So sad.

    Very, very unfair!

  • @sevenape said:

    @Moderndaycompiler said:
    Meanwhile last summer we saw this for BLM protests...

    It’s mental how different the response has been.

    Is it? It's just about mildly noteworthy if you still hold onto a shred of a belief that anyone in Govt has any time for any shades of skin other than white.

  • Though the young woman was a Trump supporter that was no excuse for killing her.

    When the BLM protests were happening?
    There was no excuse for unmarked militia to be firing
    rubber bullets and teargas into peaceful protestors.

    For the countless men and women who went missing
    and then were found dead during those protests?
    Some found hanging from trees.
    There was no excuse.

    There is no excuse for murder.

  • edited January 7

    @Gravitas said:
    Though the young woman was a Trump supporter that was no excuse for killing her.

    When the BLM protests were happening?
    There was no excuse for unmarked militia to be firing
    rubber bullets and teargas into peaceful protestors.

    For the countless men and women who went missing
    and then were found dead during those protests?
    Some found hanging from trees.
    There was no excuse.

    There is no excuse for murder.

    Correct. Why do so many U.S. citizens own firearms?

This discussion has been closed.