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Is the "Desktop" metaphor (placing icons on top of the wallpaper) good UI/UX?

edited December 2020 in Other

Something a little philosophical here.

I must admit I've never, ever used the desktop.

I've never placed a single icon on it.

Both in Windows 7 and KDE Plasma, the two environments I've been working in for the past 14 years, I've completely disabled it even.

I've never seen a compelling use case for placing stuff (be it shortcuts apps, folders, files, or widgets) in an area that is supposed to be invisible as often as possible.

Why is it "supposed to be invisible"? Because your actual WINDOWS (which is where your work takes place) are supposed to be as large as possible, to make use of your screen space as efficiently as possible.

I always tile my windows so they fill 100% of the space of my 2 monitors, all of the time, so the desktop is always completely invisible (which is also the reason why I don't have a wallpaper. It only takes up memory and doesn't make any sense).

What am I doing INSTEAD?

I have the 3 most used apps (file manager, browser, terminal) on the (vertical) panel, along with all relevant information (weather, time, date), the task list, and a few system toggles (keyboard layout, eject USB, etc.).

If I need to quickly work with a file, the file manager is configured to open the root folder of my external SSD, which contains folders and sub-folders which categorize my "stuff". In addition, it contains a few files that I'm "currently working with / on" and that will either get deleted or permanently moved into the correct folder "later" (this is, apparently, what many people use their "desktop" for).

Am I missing something with this approach? Is the desktop great for organizing stuff in reality, and I'm just not getting it?

Looking forward to the discussion! :)

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Comments

  • Sometimes I put stuff on the desktop (ie. drag-n-drop of 'stuff' from one app to a temporary place for sorting etc.) but most of the time it's empty. I sometimes drag web-links that I don't intend to bookmark as icons on the desktop as well...

    But 99% of the time it's 'clean'.

  • @Samu said:
    Sometimes I put stuff on the desktop (ie. drag-n-drop of 'stuff' from one app to a temporary place for sorting etc.) but most of the time it's empty. I sometimes drag web-links that I don't intend to bookmark as icons on the desktop as well...

    But 99% of the time it's 'clean'.

    Nice :) Yeah I use the root folder of my external SSD for that kind of stuff too. I do like "nice" wallpapers but then again, I never look at them anyway so they're just a waste of RAM to me.

  • My desktop is a dull boring color. I color code them for different uses in Spaces so I can quickly know which Space to stop on when swiping through them.

    When I go to help someone with a computer problem, I can tell how painful it's going to be based on the number of icons on their desktop. It's not 100%, but the correlation is high.

  • @NeonSilicon said:
    My desktop is a dull boring color. I color code them for different uses in Spaces so I can quickly know which Space to stop on when swiping through them.

    When I go to help someone with a computer problem, I can tell how painful it's going to be based on the number of icons on their desktop. It's not 100%, but the correlation is high.

    And they have duplicates and multiple shortcuts of same icons...... 😂

  • I miss Norton Commander.

  • @jolico said:
    I miss Norton Commander.

    What specifically?

  • edited December 2020

    I've preferred a clean desktop, no icons, since Windows 95, which came out when I was in elementary school.

    On iOS, it's a pet peeve, there's no real organization or keep things clean. Folders/icons are laughable and take too much time to organize. So I never use them or take time to organize. Instead, I never go past the main screen and use search instead.

    On Android, for my phone, I have one screen with only the apps I most commonly use and that's it! Rest I search or open via app drawer, when I need them.

    I'm big stickler for clean desktop/screen across all devices, even though Apple doesn't let me do this. Ironic for a company that touts UX. LOL.

  • @auxmux said:
    I've preferred a clean desktop, no icons, since Windows 95, which came out when I was in elementary school.

    On iOS, it's a pet peeve, there's no real organization or keep things clean. Folders/icons are laughable and take too much time to organize. So I never use them or take time to organize. Instead, I never go past the main screen and use search instead.

    On Android, for my phone, I have one screen with only the apps I most commonly use and that's it! Rest I search or open via app drawer, when I need them.

    I'm big stickler for clean desktop/screen across all devices, even though Apple doesn't let me do this. Ironic for a company that touts UX. LOL.

    I don't think iOS was designed to have more than a handful of user facing applications on it in the beginning. I think we still get the "benefit" of that today. Now, we get to have an AU having to be wrapped in an app that sits on our desktop doing absolutely nothing. I have a folder on my iPad called "Useless." It's not because they are useless. It's just that the icon will waste space on my screen.

  • My people! I sometimes use the Desktop directory as a quick-access "hopper" that is baked into Finder/Explorer, but I always have Desktop Icons disabled. As you say, they're mostly obscured, although that's shifting with bigger monitors and better real estate, but even when the desktop is partially visible, the last thing I want to see are a bunch of irrelevant icons.

    Launchers über alles.

  • @Liquidmantis said:
    My people! I sometimes use the Desktop directory as a quick-access "hopper" that is baked into Finder/Explorer, but I always have Desktop Icons disabled. As you say, they're mostly obscured, although that's shifting with bigger monitors and better real estate, but even when the desktop is partially visible, the last thing I want to see are a bunch of irrelevant icons.

    Launchers über alles.

    :D yeah, I do have the root directory of the external SSD in my "Places", so they're quickly accessible in any file selection dialog. I've often thought about actually changing the system-wide desktop folder (which is configurable) to be that root directory to make it even easier, but then I'm a bit paranoid about "special" treatment of the actual desktop folder in obscure ways which might somehow mingle with my files.

  • edited December 2020

    I use the windows desktop constantly, almost literally as a physical desktop. In my work I’m regularly downloading files from the cloud or email. I put all these files on the desktop temporarily then file them away or delete them when I’m done with them. In meetings in which I need to focus on the meeting and don’t want to faff around looking for files while multiple sets of eyeballs are staring at my computer I’ll put the files I need on the desktop and delete them when I’m done with them. Like a physical desktop my computer desktop gets messy now and then and needs to be tidied up.

    Since iOS allows multiple desktops I just use the different desktops as high level folders

  • @ecamburn said:
    I use the windows desktop constantly, almost literally as a physical desktop. In my work I’m regularly downloading files from the cloud or email. I put all these files on the desktop temporarily then file them away or delete them when I’m done with them. In meetings in which I need to focus on the meeting and don’t want to faff around looking for files while multiple sets of eyeballs are staring at my computer I’ll put the files I need on the desktop and delete them when I’m done with them. Like a physical desktop my computer desktop gets messy now and then and needs to be tidied up.

    OK, but how is that better than just using a regular folder that is pinned to the taskbar and / or available in your file manager's sidebar? That has the added benefit of it opening in the regular file manager which includes all the usual dynamic sorting / grouping options and view modes, which the desktop doesn't have.

    In addition, to be able to even see the files on your desktop, you first have to minimize all windows, and then restore them all again later.

  • edited December 2020

    Desktop is a legacy concept, much in the way that @ecamburn described, a literal desk, but it's hard to have different metaphor.

    Since, I don't deal with paper in any way, I prefer Search and Launchers as mentioned above. Alfred ftw on Macs.

  • edited December 2020

    @SevenSystems said:

    @ecamburn said:
    I use the windows desktop constantly, almost literally as a physical desktop. In my work I’m regularly downloading files from the cloud or email. I put all these files on the desktop temporarily then file them away or delete them when I’m done with them. In meetings in which I need to focus on the meeting and don’t want to faff around looking for files while multiple sets of eyeballs are staring at my computer I’ll put the files I need on the desktop and delete them when I’m done with them. Like a physical desktop my computer desktop gets messy now and then and needs to be tidied up.

    OK, but how is that better than just using a regular folder that is pinned to the taskbar and / or available in your file manager's sidebar? That has the added benefit of it opening in the regular file manager which includes all the usual dynamic sorting / grouping options and view modes, which the desktop doesn't have.

    In addition, to be able to even see the files on your desktop, you first have to minimize all windows, and then restore them all again later.

    I don't think I fully grokked your system on first read. It looks efficient. I wasn't trying to argue that my system is better, just describing what works for me. The constant positioning and resizing of windows is a waste of time. and your system may handle that more efficiently. It may sound quaint, but I do like the feeling of closing all windows down and just seeing the desktop. It's a visual cue that I'm done. :)

  • @ecamburn said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @ecamburn said:
    I use the windows desktop constantly, almost literally as a physical desktop. In my work I’m regularly downloading files from the cloud or email. I put all these files on the desktop temporarily then file them away or delete them when I’m done with them. In meetings in which I need to focus on the meeting and don’t want to faff around looking for files while multiple sets of eyeballs are staring at my computer I’ll put the files I need on the desktop and delete them when I’m done with them. Like a physical desktop my computer desktop gets messy now and then and needs to be tidied up.

    OK, but how is that better than just using a regular folder that is pinned to the taskbar and / or available in your file manager's sidebar? That has the added benefit of it opening in the regular file manager which includes all the usual dynamic sorting / grouping options and view modes, which the desktop doesn't have.

    In addition, to be able to even see the files on your desktop, you first have to minimize all windows, and then restore them all again later.

    I don't think I fully grokked your system on first read. It looks efficient. I wasn't trying to argue that my system is better, just describing what works for me. The constant positioning and resizing of windows is a waste of time. and your system may handle that more efficiently. It may sound quaint, but I do like the feeling of closing all windows down and just seeing the desktop. It's a visual cue that I'm done. :)

    :) Yeah I wasn't even trying to argue that my system is the best. Basically the opposite -- I wanna understand why so many people seem to be using the desktop metaphor and why it's the default in many operating systems.

    Aye on the visual cue though. As I said I sometimes do like looking at a nice wallpaper too, but I don't need a desktop for that :D

  • Hehe, interesting topic.

    I am Windows-based, Windows 10 since .... 2 or 3 years? Before, Windows 7.

    I have no wallpaper, but set the background to photographic middle grey.

    I also have both monitors full with stuff and as i normaly suspend to disk, everything is always sorted in this way.
    And those Apps are also added to the toolbar / taskbar, so that i can start them easily after a reboot.

    BUT, i also have some icons on the desktop - most for Apps that i do not use constantly or even often, so that i can simply click on them on the desktop instead of searching for them. Also, it kind of reminds me ... sometimes.

    So, yes i do use the desktop for sorting Apps and some folders.
    But most of the time, my desktop is also filled with App windows (Window-Left and Windows-Right).

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    I don't think iOS was designed to have more than a handful of user facing applications on it in the beginning. I think we still get the "benefit" of that today. Now, we get to have an AU having to be wrapped in an app that sits on our desktop doing absolutely nothing. I have a folder on my iPad called "Useless." It's not because they are useless. It's just that the icon will waste space on my screen.

    You can remove them from your desktop in the latest version of IOS. Game changer if you have loads of AU3s

  • @SevenSystems said:

    :) Yeah I wasn't even trying to argue that my system is the best. Basically the opposite -- I wanna understand why so many people seem to be using the desktop metaphor and why it's the default in many operating systems.

    Historical reasons. The original GUIs were designed by people who were convinced that a metaphor that adhered closely to real world affordances would be the best solution. They were wrong about that - but by the time we knew that the Mac and Windows had already adopted these metaphors.

    That said, most users of computers can't really use file explorers. I kind of feel there's a bunch of UX issues that have never really been properly solved which everyone ignores, and file management is definitely one of those.

  • @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I don't think iOS was designed to have more than a handful of user facing applications on it in the beginning. I think we still get the "benefit" of that today. Now, we get to have an AU having to be wrapped in an app that sits on our desktop doing absolutely nothing. I have a folder on my iPad called "Useless." It's not because they are useless. It's just that the icon will waste space on my screen.

    You can remove them from your desktop in the latest version of IOS. Game changer if you have loads of AU3s

    Only on iOS, right.
    On iPadOS, there is nothing like this. Not that i knew of.

  • @cian said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    I don't think iOS was designed to have more than a handful of user facing applications on it in the beginning. I think we still get the "benefit" of that today. Now, we get to have an AU having to be wrapped in an app that sits on our desktop doing absolutely nothing. I have a folder on my iPad called "Useless." It's not because they are useless. It's just that the icon will waste space on my screen.

    You can remove them from your desktop in the latest version of IOS. Game changer if you have loads of AU3s

    Sweet. Time to clean out my "Apple apps" folder. :smile:

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @jolico said:
    I miss Norton Commander.

    What specifically?

    It was a great user interface before windows, multitasking, high resolution graphics and the internet as we know it.

  • @jolico said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @jolico said:
    I miss Norton Commander.

    What specifically?

    It was a great user interface before windows, multitasking, high resolution graphics and the internet as we know it.

    You can still get freeware clones if you want (I don't want, but I understand the appeal).

  • Default for me in any OS or app that provides it is Search box > type a couple letters . 99% of the time I have what I want instantaneously. This includes searching emails and documents.

    Desktop purpose is just to hold a picture that makes me feel good. Folders ... hardly never use 'em for apps or for email. I refuse to waste the brain cycles trying to remember where I put stuff and clicking through a bunch of folders to find it when there's technology that can do it exponentially faster and more reliably than I can. I do organize audio files though because those are something I want to browse through.

    I'll admit I'm a fan of the iOS / MacOS Dock though. Very handy for those couple of often used apps and recently used apps.

    You know what really pisses me off? MacOS apps that continually place that dumb ".userchain" file on the desktop. Only way to get rid of it is to hide system files?? Argh.

  • @jolico said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @jolico said:
    I miss Norton Commander.

    What specifically?

    It was a great user interface before windows, multitasking, high resolution graphics and the internet as we know it.

    OK, well, for the file management part, you'd probably be quite happy with Dolphin on KDE Plasma then :) it has a one-click split view that can be opened or closed at any time and the whole thing is customizable as hell... including things like a terminal pane, fully customizable toolbars, search plugins, keyboard shortcuts, services, blahblahblah... KDE style :)

  • edited December 2020

    @wim said:
    Default for me in any OS or app that provides it is Search box > type a couple letters . 99% of the time I have what I want instantaneously. This includes searching emails and documents.

    Yes, good point. I use that a lot too, though separately per context:

    • If I want to launch an app, I have the ScrollLock key mapped to the "Start menu" (KDE's Applications menu), and it accepts keystrokes for searching. So, ScrollLock -> chro -> Enter will launch Chrome.
    • If I want to switch to a specific window, I have mapped ALT-Tilde to "Present Windows" (a KDE Desktop Effect similar to, but much better than, Expose). This also accepts keystrokes for searching, so I can just go ALT-Tilde -> dol -> Enter to switch to an open Dolphin window
    • If I want to search for a file, I just launch Dolphin, CTRL-F and search away.

    KDE Plasma also has a "totally" global search a la Spotlight like you mention, but I find that a bit too "global" for my taste (too many irrelevant results). Most of the time, I know already if I'm looking for an app, window, or file.

    (I also have permanent keyboard shortcuts mapped to specific app windows. i.e., ALT-C always switches to the first opened Chrome window, ALT-L always switches to the IDE window, etc.)

    Desktop purpose is just to hold a picture that makes me feel good.

    :) see!

    Folders ... hardly never use 'em for apps or for email. I refuse to waste the brain cycles trying to remember where I put stuff and clicking through a bunch of folders to find it when there's technology that can do it exponentially faster and more reliably than I can. I do organize audio files though because those are something I want to browse through.

    I still do organize everything neatly in folders because I still don't fully "trust" search. Totally agree on the music thing. There's a reason I've made an app called "MusicFolder" :smiley:

    I'll admit I'm a fan of the iOS / MacOS Dock though. Very handy for those couple of often used apps and recently used apps.

    I've always hated it -- if you add or remove icons, the icons change position relative to the screen, which interferes with muscle memory. The problem is that it has adaptive size and is centered. Not good.

    You know what really pisses me off? MacOS apps that continually place that dumb ".userchain" file on the desktop. Only way to get rid of it is to hide system files?? Argh.

    Here they're mostly called ".DS_Store", but I know what you mean ;)

  • edited December 2020

    Maybe some here will find this of use:
    https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai

    I also like contexts.co for a great task switcher, with fuzzy matching, but I think it's abandoned at this point and has some visual artifacts on Big Sur.

    IT'S ALIVE!

  • @wim your screen is a picture of your wife right? 😀👍🏻

  • @onerez said:
    @wim your screen is a picture of your wife right? 😀👍🏻

    I used to have pictures of OTHER peoples' wives as my wallpaper when I was in my early twenties, but now I'm much older and more pragmatic and prefer the beautiful "neutral grey" as @tja mentioned ;)

  • How does your wife like being referred to as "Neutral Grey"?

  • I’ve always used the desktop a lot. Having said that I never customise it or place my own pictures on it, I have it how it came. But I use it, I place things on it, I use it as a nexus between things and lately between computers (lately because all my Macs are on iCloud and the desktop can be shared). If I go back in my computing history, I’ve always left things on the desktop that are ‘current’ or ‘topical’ rather than hide them away in a folder. I can’t remember whether I did this when I first started using proper computers, we didn’t even have multi-finder back then, and it’s hard to remember that you could only run one app at a time. Even back then the wastebasket was conceptually flawed – it was how you ejected a floppy disc, but doesn’t that mean you’re throwing it all away in the bin?

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