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OT: America and Sweden leading the world in COVID incompetence
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@WillieNegus, alas, I have to agree with you. I was always cynical about human nature, but these last months have rejiggered my low expectations down a few notches. The idiocy of a third of Americans
(@robertreynolds notwithstanding) that can accept and support authoritarianism, unfounded conspiracy theories and science bashing makes me long for the bad old days of veiled hypocrisy and nontransparent malevolence.
The report by @Peblin from Sweden gives pause for thought, but does not give cause for Trump to claim 85% of mask users get Covid. He, more than anyone, has politicized a public health issue.
@WillieNegus I agree with you. I’ve often pondered: what if every living thing on earth was given a vote? Yay or nay, should humans continue to exist on this planet?
We wouldn’t get many votes. Cats and dogs, maybe, but that would be it.
As a Swede I absolutely agree. Our Public Health Agency nor the government havent done anything at all to help protect the vulnerable. Literally nothing at all since all this started. Nothing . I know, I work in this mess, I see it every day on multiple fronts. Wanna know why we don’t report active cases?
Well written @Peblin and here's some data to back it up. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden are from that horrible mistakes handling the elderly. Here's some data to back it up and you'll see how many are over 70. The thread title is wrong and time will make it even more so. (I hope
)
@OnfraySin Well done dude. Now I know you are an absolute retarded scum and your place here is on the ignore.
@WillieNegus, I’ve been pondering this lately but can’t find the right analogy. All the great things people say about how special it is to be human. Love, kindness, god, empathy, compassion. It’s all made up stuff... made up by fucking humans to glorify their own existence. I read an article about a how Trump will fail when he contests the elections in court. I forget the term, but the idea is that you cannot come into court and blame someone for a problem you created...it’s a bit like that.
But what is a good analogy? Maybe Trump pardoning himself? A vegan butcher?
It’s not that I think these qualities don’t exist. I just don’t think we should pat ourselves on the back for being human.... cause we love our kids and can philosophize and even make music.
There is no evil. There is only evil intent.
Good is basically doing as little harm as possible while managing to protect yourself and those whom you love and are responsible for.
Evil is I’ll do what I want and I don’t care about the consequences. Basically, fuck you I got mine.
Everything else is cultural trappings. Eating pork is sinful. It’s might be if you are a desert people and you in the past have suffered from Trichinosis (from uncooked pork). Same with eating lobster.
Hell, I got food poisoning from unsafely cooked chicken. It was so bad I consider chicken “unclean”
These are silly examples of things that are not “evil” but because they are recorded in some book which has risen to cultural relevance they have power, some of which is no longer (or never has been) relevant because we as a larger part of society have moved on or because the shit was misinterpreted to begin with.
Just don’t be a dick. It’s not that hard. WEAR A F*CKING MASK and try not to infect everyone
Fuck I hate this timeline. Selfishness and willful stupidity will kill us all.
delete
Humans are pretty insignificant considering the size of of universe.
I believe most people are innately good.
Is there selfishness, rudeness, and bad behavior out there? Sure. But I don’t assign that as evil or bad.
I do see a trend permeating the political fringes where people are treating others with different opinions as evil and hateful. They use these labels to bully others, and justify it by believing they “are on the right side of history” and their target is morally deficient. I hope this trend doesn’t permeate too deeply into our culture, and that we continue to celebrate each other’s differences despite not always agreeing with them.
But generally, I think most people are good and stand by that.
I appreciate your reasonable observations here and agree that we celebrate each's other's differences by LISTENING intently to different perspectives.
@robertreynolds, I’m afraid the hatred is not just on the fringes, my friend. It has permeated our US society on both sides IMO. I feel it within myself and I am not a fringe guy. Here is a Utah governor ad with both candidates respectfully making their case. Unfortunately, an anomaly these days.
Im an anti vaxer hoping to undergo training to be able to administer vaxines ( to those who want it )
So in a way. Kind of a pro vaxer.
No real need for debates. Unless you have questions?
I don’t see a major difference in the Swedish chart from the CDC mortality chart.
But as I said, enough Swedes are happy with their strategy, so I guess good luck. I really hope you pull through. I’m not being sarcastic, I’m sad because what has happened is horrific.
Good stuff. I enjoyed this a lot.
Agree, but if those clumsy mistakes early on (elderly with assisted living) had been avoided the Swedish policies had been a success (in lack of a better word). I have yet to see anybody with a mask and we're not having quarantines and yet the curve from July and forward are quite good (again: in lack of a better word) . Thanks and good luck to you too.
”Clumsy mistakes early on” - That’s one way to put it. We did NOTHING early on. We’ve not done anything since, we haven’t addressed “the situation” in any way whatsoever. Elderly with assisted living is only half the story. Or half the deaths, whichever way you prefer it. If Sweden wasn’t completely handicapped when it comes to literally everything from our military to our health sector, to our government and authorities, so many lives could’ve been saved.
Sweden - Exterminating our seniors with morphine. Not much better then gas in my opinion.
Yes basically your risk of dying from Covid, if you get it, doubles for every 6 years of life. So the Swedish demographic distribution of deaths by age group is pretty much as expected. So the only way to protect the elderly is to stop them getting it in the first place.
What actually matters, however, is Deaths per Capita and according to
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/sweden-avoiding-second-wave-consistent-measures-trusting-population/
"Sweden had an incidence of coronavirus deaths of 57.6 per 100,000 population, as opposed to Norway’s 5.2, Finland’s 6.2 and Denmark’s 11.6."
Given the recent confirmation today that Covid antibodies fall rapidly after infection, the debate about whether any kind 'herd immunity' strategy is an appropriate policy response ought to be well and truly over.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54696873
Yes indeed, herd immunity as a concept is DONE. Not that it will stop the proponents of said strategy, of course. We need to lock up tight until the vaccine is here, shame there's not the political will in more countries to do so. Praying (not literal praying!) for a Biden victory in the US next week.
Herd immunity or die trying.
If America votes for the Reaper, they will reap the Red Death.
Truly
Hmmm, looks like Sweden has finally seen the light:
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-shifts-away-no-lockdown-strategy-amid-growing-case-numbers-2020-10
I'm guessing Dictator Donnie is not that bright.
"So sad. So very, very sad."
Across Europe healthcare systems are going to come under severe strain within the next month, as usual the UK government knows that the storm is approaching, yet, dithers again.
Without a doubt the crazy so called scientists who said we should have reached herd immunity will now change their narrative, as for Doomsday Donnie, good luck America.
Regarding herd “mentality” (like those hydrosonic missiles I guess)
FWIW, a virologist has pointed out that there is no pathogen in human populations for which herd immunity has naturally developed. It only exists for pathogens for which we have vaccines.
Also worth reminding everyone that the 'herd immunity' strategies make an assumption that if you don't die from it, it isn't a big deal. There are problems with this assumption. One is that we don't know the long-term impact on people that get sick and don't die from it. We know, for instance, that many suffer organ damage whose long-term impact isn't known. Many otherwise healthy people (for example), show signs of heart inflammation even after the virus is gone (again, not yet known how long that lasts). The other issue is that many of those that don't die still used up considerable medical resources to prevent them from dying. If we don't use methods to limit viral spread, the medical system will become overloaded and unable to handle all the people that need care for COVID and non-COVID health matters.