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Mystic River(s) / McD and LL

edited September 2020 in Creations

Somewhere between ambient and modern classical.

«13

Comments

  • Somewhere between great and bloody marvelous!

  • That was an enjoyable float downstream. Let’s hear a break down of contributions. I’m assuming the more Electronica stuff is @McD but when it comes to the classical side of it, it’s a toss up.

  • @LinearLineman @McD Beautiful and magical! A lovely texture of electronic and natural sounds complementing each other. 👍👍

  • Beautiful piece. Great interplay of lines and textures. This “somewhere” is a lovely place I’d like to revisit

  • edited September 2020

    That’s wonderful praise @gusgranite, we thank you!

    @hypnopad, @McD provided me with two tracks to start. An ambient “current” and an ARP track. You can hear them on their own at 0:47 and at the end. I added the clarinet, poly brass, organ, strings, and other electronica. I see he hasn’t chimed in here and I suspect he doesn’t think he played a major role
    In its creation. To which I beg to differ. Collaborations take many forms, but this track (and I also feel it is a bit unusual) would never have happened without the ambient river McD gave me to work with.
    His tracks are present in 80% of the piece and create the riverbed of slow movement that the entirety is based on.

    I have often seen my stuff used as cannon fodder in my collaborations with others. Most notable is Project Q by @rs2000. He repackaged two or three processed phrases of an extended improv I sent him. It became a creation of his. I played a role that was mostly inspirational, I think. For me, this is a great result. I don’t enter into a collaboration thinking it’s got to be a fifty fifty deal. Sometimes it’s 90-10. The bottom line is that particular piece of music would not exist if two or more people didn’t contribute. So, McD, you can take a bow for this, IMHO.

    Thank you @Spidericemidas. I appreciate your comment cause I do think this track blends virtual acoustic and synthetic sounds quite well. Perhaps some folks will post other examples where the blend is effective and not artificially induced. I am leaning more and more in that direction.

    @aplourde, thanks, my friend. Great respect for what you do.

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    Sorry... for being late. Here's my mix of the some of the materials.
    It's got that "Jazz Musician Practicing Over a Synth Track" feeling like
    trumpeters/composers Mark Isham and Terence Blanchard. The @LinearLineman
    plays a nice Fluegelhorn.

  • Excellent collaboration fellas! @McD and @LinearLineman, I totally agree on your take of what makes a collaboration. Sometimes it’s just a little sound or inspiration that can spark an idea.

  • @Intrepolicious said:
    Excellent collaboration fellas! @McD and @LinearLineman, I totally agree on your take of what makes a collaboration. Sometimes it’s just a little sound or inspiration that can spark an idea.

    Thanks... I recommend Collaborating with @LinearLineman because he's got a massive audience and you
    will grow your own audience by 2-3. My audience dies as fast as I add new listeners. We lost Shirley this week fans. Dry rot. Not a pretty corpse. Closed casket.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    That’s wonderful praise @gusgranite, we thank you!

    @hypnopad, @McD provided me with two tracks to start. An ambient “current” and an ARP track. You can hear them on their own at 0:47 and at the end. I added the clarinet, poly brass, organ, strings, and other electronica. I see he hasn’t chimed in here and I suspect he doesn’t think he played a major role
    In its creation. To which I beg to differ. Collaborations take many forms, but this track (and I also feel it is a bit unusual) would never have happened without the ambient river McD gave me to work with.
    His tracks are present in 80% of the piece and create the riverbed of slow movement that the entirety is based on.

    I have often seen my stuff used as cannon fodder in my collaborations with others. Most notable is Project Q by @rs2000. He repackaged two or three processed phrases of an extended improv I sent him. It became a creation of his. I played a role that was mostly inspirational, I think. For me, this is a great result. I don’t enter into a collaboration thinking it’s got to be a fifty fifty deal. Sometimes it’s 90-10. The bottom line is that particular piece of music would not exist if two or more people didn’t contribute. So, McD, you can take a bow for this, IMHO.

    Thank you @Spidericemidas. I appreciate your comment cause I do think this track blends virtual acoustic and synthetic sounds quite well. Perhaps some folks will post other examples where the blend is effective and not artificially induced. I am leaning more and more in that direction.

    @aplourde, thanks, my friend. Great respect for what you do.

    Hey, your arrangements are getting better and better. Just lovely.

    @Intrepolicious said:
    Excellent collaboration fellas! @McD and @LinearLineman, I totally agree on your take of what makes a collaboration. Sometimes it’s just a little sound or inspiration that can spark an idea.

    I had great experiences collaborating in both directions: Being inspired from @LinearLineman's works as well as giving inspiration to @Lady_App_titude who took my little Gadget project and made a full-fledged song out of it that turned out really well.

    Exciting times.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Somewhere between ambient and modern classical.

    mite be one of your best sofar, less is more def.

  • @McD said:
    Sorry... for being late. Here's my mix of the some of the materials.
    It's got that "Jazz Musician Practicing Over a Synth Track" feeling like
    trumpeter/composer Mark Isham. The @LinearLineman plays a nice Fluegelhorn.

    Alright spill the beans. What’s in your secret sauce? Very nice vibe.

  • edited September 2020

    99% sure its Staff "empty wallet" Pad instruments OR smth else expensive.. thats not your trash Soundfonts in there

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    @hypnopad said:
    Alright spill the beans. What’s in your secret sauce? Very nice vibe.

    I'd say the FX at play here are FilterStation and Perforator to generate 16th note patterns from
    clouds of sound. Then I left the Horn alone to let it drift over the top. I also didn't own the
    same synths Mike used so I grabbed several I like so that changes the sound too.

    The ostinato "repeated pattern" line was created in Reason Compact using the IAP Arp facility. It's
    a kick ass Arp and the Europa Synth is really good. I also paid for to tweak Europa and to use Chords.
    I also bought a lot of Reason Compact presets and flipped through to find one that really spoke to me.
    I could make a dozen tracks like this with Reason Compact just using the Arp and the great preset
    packages. It's a hidden gem for me.

    So, I recommend these apps to get a similar effect:
    Filterstation
    Perforator
    Reason Compact with all the trimmings
    Continua
    FAC Alteza
    Eventide Blackhole

    The Fluegelhorn solo Mike created is iFretless Brass which I do happen to own other wise I'd
    have used my "go to" ThumbJam "Cello" or "Oboe".

    Here's another Reason Compact creation made to make me look hip:

    Most of that is just triggering the arps with a keyboard but any MIDI controller would work.

  • @McD Just looked and I have every app except the Europa iap. Might have to indulge.

  • @hypnopad said:
    @McD Just looked and I have every app except the Europa iap. Might have to indulge.

    I don't think you'll regret the Europa buy for an instant. It's a jewel in the Propellerhead's arsenal
    but you'll kill you with all the IAP unlocks. Get the Arp for sure. It will give you a little grief with MIDI routing but it's OK in AUM, as I recall. I had to use AB3 to get to the Drum machine at the same time I think.

    Let me know if you have problems and I'll build another AUM project for it.

  • Hmm, TIL people actually use Reason Compact. I’ll have to take another look. I love Reason on the desktop, and Thor has always been one of my favorite IAA synths, but for some reason I discarded RC. I’m guessing the IAPs are where it shines?

  • @Intrepolicious said:
    Hmm, TIL people actually use Reason Compact. I’ll have to take another look. I love Reason on the desktop, and Thor has always been one of my favorite IAA synths, but for some reason I discarded RC. I’m guessing the IAPs are where it shines?

    I'm a preset guy so I like them.

    It's intended to be a little groove box really. But you can't hide the quality of Europa as a synth design.
    I probably sunk another $20 in the IAP's. Jacob Haq makes a sets of presets for it.

  • edited September 2020

    We thank you @noob. @McD, that Flugelhorn is really a Euphonium from IFretless Brass.... but maybe you switched it? It’s all BS, anyway.

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    @LinearLineman said:
    We thank you @noob. @McD, that Flugelhorn is really a Euphonium from IFretless Brass.... but maybe you switched it? It’s all BS, anyway.

    Dude. I have a Bachelor's in Music Education... I can't let this slide. And yes, it is called a BM Degree. No shit.That BM took me 4 years to push out. It's from Long Beach State however which really was a bit of a shithole but Larry Carlton and the Carpenters went there.

    I ran into Karen once just when their career took off. She sang in the choir but I never knew her. Richard was older but he was locally famous as a young jazzer with a lust for fame.
    Karen just wanted to play the drums. Painfully shy.

    Long Beach is a beautiful town in California near Downey and home of the Queen Mary and the Howard Hughes "Spruce Goose".

    I'm going to Google to see if there are any jazz Euphonium references. I'm pretty sure the Euphoniums are like saxes... they can come in various sizes, I think (tenor, alto, soprano maybe).

    So, I'm curious about the range and length of the fluegelhorn versus a euphonium. I think Euphniums are big in UK bands and Fluegelhorns have roots in Fluglandia. I'll do the research to verify.

    I suspect they are both conical brass and has similar physical characteristics in length and range. They certainly sound quite similar. But you played it so I stand corrected. If it's really a euphonium then it's not jazz because none of my fluegelhorn heroes would be caught dead playing that wimp ass euphonium that's wrapped up like a baby tuba. Flugelhorns look like trumpets with a glandular problem but still very cool. Miles playing an euphonium with Coltrane... not a pretty picture.

    Fluegelhorn range:

    8va means up 1 octave up in reality.

    Euphonium range:

    I think a Euphonium should sound more like a Trombone based on range.

    Miles with Fluegelhorn at Carnegie Hall:

    The world's hippest Euphonium player giving a TED talk:

    (Slow news day folks).

    EXTRA CREDIT FOR ANYONE STILL READING... A POP QUIZ:

    Correctly identify the Fluegelhorn and Euphonium and win 2 free cookies.
    Tricky... sizes are not to scale unless that's a valve Trombone. But the shapes matter.
    One cool. One uncool.

  • edited September 2020

    @McD, a picture is worth your thousand words....
    A euphonium is like a smallish tuba, thus sounds like one. A Flugelhorn is a deeper sounding trumpet. Don’t argue with me. Take it to IFretless.

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    @LinearLineman said:
    @McD, a picture is worth your thousand words....

    I'm going to check the range of your solo. I think they're mixing samples into a big slurry of all those horns. Flugelhorn (like a trumpet) is an octave up from a Trombone (like a Euphonium) in range and has a different tone. But a sample-based app can cheat on the actual ranges.

    I'll check it tomorrow on the keyboard and maybe watch that TED talk and make an audio file to compare to your solo. Now a baritone horn might get closer to the range and timbre of your solo but a Euphonium... You-Phoney-Em. We should get a refund for false labeling in iFretless Brass. I think I have the app too so I can just play it and compare samples. Not sure if I used you're solo as a rendered stem or as MIDI into the app.

    Are you watching the news tonight?

  • So what’s the news @McD?

  • @LinearLineman said:
    So what’s the news @McD?

    Michael Cohen's book dropped and he's doing news interviews. He's credible with me. He was at the table
    while Trump was running and even went to Russia to advance the Moscow Tower deal. He's got great stories about the "great man". Rachel interviews him and she hits the high points of the books reveals
    on Trump and the possible outcomes of 2020... sometimes you just have to laugh at the insanity.

  • OK.

    This is Miles playing a Flugelhorn:

    Worth watching with an interview Gil Evans - The Arranger of "Sketches of Spain" - talking about Miles' Timbre)

    This is a jazzer playing the hippest Jazz tune of the 90's "Beauty and the Beast" - smokin' Euphonium solo:

    And this is @Linearlineman imitating Miles and not sounding anything like a Euphonium no matter what iFretless calls that preset.

    When I switched the preset to Flugelhorn the samples didn't change since the notes are in the upper range
    beyond what someone could use for a Euphonium solo.

  • OK. It's time to score those pop quizzes. Here are the answers:

    I have decided that everyone that has made it to this point in the thread deserves a cookie.
    So, hit this website and collect your cookies... you will have to accept the cookies. If you would
    rather have the Covid-19 virus just PM me and we can make arrangements for you to pick it up
    at your Post Office or DMV or anyplace with excessively long waiting lines and poor customer service
    where the executives are actively seeking to make the organization fail.

    Thanks again for playing along.

  • @LinearLineman @McD - very nice tunes - and a good excursion of the brasses.👍🏽

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    @Satie said:
    @LinearLineman @McD - very nice tunes - and a good excursion of the brasses.👍🏽

    Nice title... "A Good Excursion of the Brasses".

    Where is the outrage: iFretless is selling a Euphonium that plays notes outside it's range
    and is indistinguishable from the Flugelhorn in the same app. Even worse... neither instrument has ever had any frets to have "less" of.

    My wife says "Don't fret over it and get some sleep".
    What does she know?
    Why does she care?
    Where are my glasses?

  • McDMcD
    edited September 2020

    Questions are coming in...

    How is a Fluegelhorn different from a Trumpet?

    The flugelhorn is also a brass instrument that resembles a cornet, but it has a wider conical bore. ... The similarity the flugelhorn shares with the trumpet is that they have the same tube length. The major difference is that the conical bore in the flugelhorn is wider than that of the trumpet.

    What does a Flugelhorn sound like?

    Like a Euphonium at the age of 5. Or the @Linearlineman playing his Euphonium up an octave using a MIDI controller.

    What's the difference between a flugelhorn and a mellophone?

    The mellophone uses the same mouthpiece as the alto (tenor) horn, which is in between the size of a trombone and trumpet mouthpiece. This mouthpiece usually has a deep cup, like that of the flugelhorn, and has a wider inner diameter than a trumpet mouthpiece. These mouthpieces give the mellophone a dark, round sound.

  • @McD It's noted that the Euphonium's range can extend as high as Bb5 (using scientific pitch notation which places middle C as C4) in the hands of a professional. They just have to adjust their embouchure and push the air a little harder.

    I think @LinearLineman is topping out at C#6, so he's going a bit higher, but I guess it would be possible if you consider him a highly skilled, professional blowhard. :D

  • @aplourde said:
    @McD It's noted that the Euphonium's range can extend as high as Bb5 (using scientific pitch notation which places middle C as C4) in the hands of a professional. They just have to adjust their embouchure and push the air a little harder.

    I think @LinearLineman is topping out at C#6, so he's going a bit higher, but I guess it would be possible if you consider him a highly skilled, professional blowhard. :D

    The tube length of the euphonium is 2x of the flugelhorn. When you play the notes Mike is using in the app
    you can change between fluegelhorn and euphonium and the sound doesn't change.

    So, Mike used the Euphonium preset and I used the Flugelhorn preset in my mix and we are both right
    about the instrument being used. I can live with that.

    Wikipedia has the range of the Euphonium as 4 octaves... that's not accurate. This is:

    Mike's notes are above the Bb4 shown for the Euphonium limits in those notes up to a 10th above.
    The Fluegel horn sounds comfortable in that range and a Euphonium played with more pressure would
    sound very strained and the player would get a hernia producing that level of pressure from the abdomen.

    Here's the Fluegelhorn/trumpet range:

    I hope someone has learned something. * Sampled instruments can break the rules of physics. *
    with (eu)phony pitch shifting of the recordings. It's like a burst of audio helium filled air.

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