Audiobus: Use your music apps together.
What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.Download on the App Store
Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.
... I'm quite intrigued by this. AFAIK, the Kemper was the only thing doing what it did, up until about 2019 when the TH-U 'capture' thing came out. It's discussed in some detail in thread on the Kemper forum.
So it seems from my further forum diving in the past couple of hours that there are:
A - the general modellers we all know and love/hate, that build a mathematical model in the digital realm of the circuit path of a specific amp. But these models are specific and won't really go outside the sonic realm of the particular amp.
B - Kemper, and now, TH-U, that have developed a more flexible model of amp behavior, and which use a recording of a bunch of specific weird noises played through the amp – so that is some kind of IR – which is used to inform the model about what's happening to the sound. So it's not convolution I think, which is what IRs are normally associated with.
That would place Kemper and TH-U in a separate category of modellers, in that there are no others (?) That can capture or profile an amp by recording it in the real world.
Christopher Kemper mentions that IRs are used as part of the process...
"I think I have never stated that we do not use IRs.
It requires IRs and several other methods to achieve the sound of the Profiler.
If the accuracy was not top notch, you would clearly notice it in the A/B comparison. We were the first to implement such A/B comparison to show how close we get to the original. We have nothing to hide soundwise."
https://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php?thread/8982-kpa-irs-and-math-mumbojumbo/&pageNo=2 (post #26)
But he goes into more detail, though still very vague, in this interesting interview, from when the Kemper was introduced in 2011, about profiling as different from modelling, philosophically and technically:
"Modeling, in the first sense, is bringing the physics of the real world into a virtual world by defining formulas for the real world and letting them calculate on a real-time computer (such as a DSP or a plug-in environment)....
...Profiling is an automated approach for reaching a result that is probably too complex and multidimensional to achieve by ear, or by capturing the behavior of individual components in isolation. This is the case for a tube amp."
This is just all of interest to me, not trying to prove anything in particular, but it seems, going back to the TH-U products being discussed here, that the RIGS use the Kemper-style capture of sonics (though to inform a model, not for convolution as I had thought), whereas the others use the more traditional modelling of specific circuits. Which was kinda my point, that they are quite different technologies being offered as part of the same package. And you can also see this is a rather different technology aby the different parameters available like sag and tube bias etc. It's quite fascinating.
Kemper allows you to make your own profiles, you can see videos of people doing this, and hear the strange sounds that get played through your amp and recorded. But with TH-U you can only use the rigs they have captured. They must use a similar process though.
Also, I see that TH-U are from Modena in Italy, as are IK Multimedia, And Nembrini is also Italian. Must be something going on in Italy!
Both statements are about the same topic, but cover a different degree of complexity.
The basic „amp model“ of the Kemper Profiling Amp has some 45 parameters (iirc), which is impossible to control by hand and ear. The profiling process measures the response of the original amp and derives the respective control parameters for the model.
They extras only work if you've purchased the rig that it belongs to correct?
@Bootsy Yes that is correct, it’s most prudent to download just the extras from a rig you own. However, I downloaded all the extras from all rigs and for two reasons: if the rigs go on sale I would buy them and already have the extras. And even if the patches/presets are locked because you don’t own the rig, you can still see the knobs and parameters of the rig and the FX chain which is interesting to me. Anyway they’re not extra rigs they’re just extra presets using the rigs, maybe 10 per bank, so it’s not important for people who don’t use presets. I use them as a reference. The files are tiny anyway, maybe 1.5mb all together. Also I’m not sure it matters for iOS that it says “for Full owners”. I don’t own Full desktop and extras downloaded to my iPad no problem. I hope this means that loading IRs in Overloud iOS is a future possibility.
@Bootsy and here’s another free pack of extras!
Scroll down and find the Artist Pack #1, downloads instantly to Overloud iOS preset bank. There are 50 presets there with the amp/cab/fx sims not the rigs.
@SimonSomeone here’s what I think makes the Overloud rigs expensive and different, based on my limited understanding and @espiegel123 explanations. For a Rig, Overloud or their collaborators will take a specific legendary real world amp, capture it 100-300 times in all different settings using specific cabs and mics, and then they will model those captures, and they sell us the Rig which is basically a preset list of all those captures. An amp sim on the other hand is an algorithm that is approximating an amp and how it’s supposed to behave as you adjust all the knobs. It’s meant to work from scratch and for building whatever sound you want, whereas if you adjust the Rig knobs too much they will not sound good.
Further complicating matters is that the Rig cabinets use IRs, and the cabinets in the sim collection are emulations. So in theory the Rigs should sound better because of IR and regardless of the rig/sim amp modeling tech. You can even load up an amp sim and add the rig player in the chain but only use the rig cab by disabling just the amp. However in iOS the rig cabs can just be loaded or switched but they can’t really be adjusted, whereas the emulated cab sims have a lot of flexibility such as dual mic positioning. A real test of a Rig amp could involve disabling the rig cab and pairing it with a sim cab instead. I’m wondering if the awesomeness I’m hearing with the Rigs is actually due to the cabs.
One thing I find unfortunate is that in the cab sim collection there is actually an “IR Cabinet”, but in iOS you can’t load your own IRs into it. So beyond the one preloaded IR this cabinet is useless. I hope they’ll change that because if you could actually pair all the amps in the full pack with a loadable IR cab “in the box” that could open up a lot of quality tone.
I know players are very picky about their IRs but this is also what makes Nembrini different in that all the amps come loaded with a ton of IRs.
I bought about $30 of Nembrini stuff when it went on sale, and thought it was quite good. It also doesn't seem to be overly resource-hungry in AUM, which is huge.
I have the free Overloud download, and find it impressive enough to consider - a good clean Fender or Vox AC30 tone would be a massive building block for the types of stuff I enjoy. The challenge I keep running into is that there is this "see-saw" phenomenon I have with iOS apps vs. physical hardware for guitar playing. My last iPad purchase was in 2016, but my original iPad Pro 12.9" is holding up pretty against modern apps, and I have no immediate plans to replace it. It also has the dedicated headphone jack, which is so appreciated on iDevices for music making.
But, invariably, it will begin to struggle with new OS versions and then if I have invested in all of this guitar stuff, I may drift back towards hardware where latency, crackling, and crashes are of no concern. That stuff just drives me nuts - worrying about whether it will be a problem is much worse for me than the severity of the problem itself (if that makes any sense).
Let's say I'm looking for the cheapest way to get a "pushed" Fender amp sound - not so much the sparkly clean of a Twin, but the rich tube saturation of a slightly breaking up Deluxe. What would be the most cost-effective way to do that?
(A) Overloud amp/effects bundle (Funk)?
(B) Buy one or two Overloud "rigs"?
(C) Purchase a single Overloud amp and use AUv3 FX?
I need reverb, delay, and maybe the ability to put a tubescreamer or something in front, BUT I'd be willing to do that with an AUv3 plug-in, also. Thanks!
Kemper is not the only digital amp that profiles real-world amps -- nor were they the only ones in 2019. I am not sure when modeling amps (based on profiling) first appeared, but they have been around for years: Kemper, Fractal Audio's Axe-FX, Line 6 Helix, Positive Grid (they have software to allow you do to your own profiling). Kemper does have a reputation as being the best sounding.
I think someone else captured this in a comment. As I understand it, the use of IRs in profiling isn't because they use the IRs to reproduce the amp sound (as happens with convolution) but because IRs are an effective way of capturing the frequency response of a particular set of settings. So, capturing IRs with a (large) variety of amp settings lets you build response curves that capture the actual response. I could be wrong, but I think they are used for analysis rather than for actual sound production (other than for cabinets).
Based on what you’re describing, I would go with 1 bundle and 1 rig.
The Funk bundle conveniently takes care of the pedals you’re looking for, and comes with several Fender and Vox type amp sims.
Since you’re looking for that specific sound of a pushed Fender, the rigs I’d highly recommend are the Edge, Super Reverb, Bassman, Vox, in that order. Yes the Edge is an “artist” signature amp, but consider that it’s actually a modified Deluxe 5e3 using Alnico speakers as well as all the other speakers from Overloud. It is exactly a pushed Fender that can even sound a little Voxy. The Super Reverb as we know is a more breaking version of the Twin, and also will really suit you. The Bassman is excellent, but has more of a deep rich and warm clean as well as amazing distortion ability, and the break too. The Vox rig is great. I have all of these and I’m only recommending them because they sound EXCELLENT. If you want to forego bundles and just have your perfect Fender sound, and use outside FX, I would just consider 1 rig and that’s it. Keep in mind it’s like 100 mildly tweakable presets rather than an amp face you can sculpt from scratch, but it’s literally the exact sound you’re looking for in the best iteration I’ve heard so far on iOS. It’s almost easier this way to attain that sound. They’ve already set up the amp for you 100 times with minute differences, and presented this for you on a silver platter. Scrolling through every rig is just an exercise in amazement.
Thank you! @JoyceRoadStudios. That artist pack is great. I appreciate the heads up.
@JoyceRoadStudios weirdly it only loads up 40 presets and "Carlos magic woman"and the 2 Hendrix presets make no sound. I loaded the angle scream extras as well and they pull up the same 8 presets that came with the rig. I looked at them individually and the extras one seems to have rack mount versions of the same effects. But they sound exactly the same.
Sorry it is 40 not 50! I don’t know why I thought 50 maybe just looked too fast. It is weird that some presets don’t make sound as you say, because they look like they should. Do you own those components of the chain separately, like in the full pack? Maybe they’re corrupt going to iOS or something?
Also weird that the extra Rig presets have the same name, look different, but sound the same. Some of the extra rig packs are wildly different though and have other names, while others have the same names as you say. Probably worth an email to the devs...
No b> @JoyceRoadStudios said:
No big deal really. I do have the full pack and a few rigs, so I have plenty to deal with. Anther oddity is the full pack says it has 89 amps and 5 bass amps, I count 83 amps and 5 bass. Not sure what's going on there.
@Bootsy I got it! So you will notice that the two Hendrix patches and the Santana patch are only registering sound on the left side, which means they’re mono patches. I think that’s why you’re not hearing any sound. Either switch to mono in global settings or adjust the channel or interface parameters.
EDIT: The left and right meters on each side of the screen in Overloud are not L/R or Stereo/Mono meters. The left meter is the input level or input gain, and the right meter is the output level.
Also you’re totally right the Full pack it says 89 guitar amps and 4 bass amps, and both the pdf list of models and the full pack collection don’t add up. But I think I know why... if you count the amps inside the “10 free rigs for logged users” there are 4 amps there, add the Rig player and you have the stated total. At least I think that’s how it is, otherwise the full pack is 4-5 amps under. And yes the Bassface 59 and the Brit S. Bass can be used for guitar and bass which means there are 5 potential Bass models.
AND... here’s yet another page on the site with additional free downloads, it’s in the “download” section of the site menu. Lots of patches here...
Thank you very much for the detailed response, @JoyceRoadStudios - much appreciated!
The Funk Bundle is certainly the safest way to go - I think that's a good collection of "stuff" for around $18, and it's tweakable.
I definitely had my eyes on the Edge Rig, in part because I am a big fan of The Edge and chasing down his guitar tone and various delays has been an intermittent hobby of mine for years. So this would have started with a single BOSS DD-3, and evolved into a DOD Bifet Preamp fed into a ND-1 Nova Delay. I got a HX Stomp last year, and made a couple of patches from scratch that are the closest I've ever come to that Vox chime, dotted eighth plus quarter note delay, and modulation. The funny thing about The Edge's tone, no matter what gear you are using, you think back to what you were doing 5 years ago and wonder how you even thought what you were doing was close!
Anyway, I feel like the Rigs are risky, though. Is it basically just a collection of presets? Can you tweak any of the amp's parameters (EQ roll-off)? Like, on my HX Stomp, that's a great device, but it's also really easy to make it sound like crap, either with stock cabs or IR's, if it isn't set up for your gear. So I'm just worried that it could be a completely sunk cost. And yet I love that amp and that tone...
Why not just freeze it at some point? There's no need to update iOS or the apps as long as they work as you want.
I'm very cautiously watching each iOS update now to decide when the Air 2 gets this treatment. iOS 13 may be the last update I do, even though the Air 2 will be supported on 14. I learned my lesson on my first iPad by going one OS version too far, basically turning it into a paperweight.
Absolutely nothing is lost by just stopping the updates. The thing will remain viable forever as long as the hardware holds up.
Fair point. I don't see any signs that my iPad Pro (2016) is struggling on the current OS, but I would be well-advised to stop updating it soon.
I guess I would slightly disagree that you "lose nothing" by stopping the updates. Apps have discontinued support for older OS versions (rare, but it happens), and by stopping updates, you would pretty quickly run into new music apps that demand a higher OS than my iPad runs. But I guess I just setting up the argument that I invariably will need to upgrade the hardware eventually if you want to keep doing iOS music.
I don't get the logic there. Apps don't need to be updated if they work. They don't stop working if the iOS isn't upgraded. What is lost? New apps, I suppose, but you can always get a new device and keep the old one frozen.
You're a long way from needing to freeze that iPad Pro. I was just throwing it out there because you said you are bothered that your investments could be lost. It doesn't have to be that way.
My Air 2 is very close to becoming a "set" piece of hardware. It will always be useful as an amp-sim driver, midi controller for other devices, etc. The battery is dying, but that's a survivable problem. I just need to make sure that I don't take it one OS update too far.
Anyway, not trying to prove any point ... just trying to make ya' feel better.
Btw, just discovered that if you push the tone controls on the free 'darkface' amp, you get a really nice Fender-ish edge of breaking up distortion that is very touch-responsive. I need to play with the free options some more. Really impressive.
I totally understand what you mean, and I’m a horrible example of iOS frugality. So the Rigs are ABSOLUTELY tweakable, they are loaded into the rig player which is just an all purpose amp face with all of the knobs available to adjust. In some ways the rig player is even more tweakable than an amp sim because the menu includes parameters like “Tube Bias” “Power Sag” and “Direct Mix”. So of course you could slightly roll off the gain or add a little more treble to suit your pickups etc... I just think that major tweaks will not sound good because the original is a tailored preset and not a freestyle algorithm. It’s not so different from loading a regular preset from their sim collection and just tweaking it. So I don’t know what technology Overloud uses to predict rig player tweaks vs sim tweaks. You can go through 50 Edge rig presets and they will sound almost identical, but with just a half knob turn here and there or a different cab used. When I turn the gain completely off on a rig it’s not great. So better to use a rig where the gain is already off. But the point is the rigs sound the best as presented, also because they’re using IRs, and they totally can and should be tweaked, but minimally.
I probably shouldn’t say this, but one night I was frivolous and got like a dozen rigs. I absolutely love most of them and have no regrets but there were a couple that I really didn’t like so I asked for refunds and they were approved. After the app updated a few days ago and I pressed restore purchase just to check, I still have all the rigs, probably because they’re already downloaded to the system but simply locked/unlocked. My refund was sincere and I love supporting devs and their hard work, but the point is you could try it out and if you don’t like it you could ask for a refund.
The advantage of a rig is it’s a deep dive into one amp and not an overwhelming collection, and the soundstage is great to my ears. I think with some of the rigs they really lucked out with the original specimen they were capturing. Also once you start buying amps ala carte it will add up quickly anyway. The Funk bundle does seem to cover plenty of ground as well, but you should try playing with the 10 free rigs to hear the difference and tweak the knobs...
Agree with this 100% and with your most recent comment. We are on the same page
@JoyceRoadStudios - Thanks again. I wasn't clear on how much control you had on the presets, but that sounds just fine.
A real-life guitar gear example - for years I research, buy, and review gear and make comments about whether something had enough "low end" or not. But you have to ask what your setup is. In my case, I'm a hobbyist who plays by myself, and years ago, that was only through an 8" or 10" combo amp. So: (1) I'm not playing with a bassist or drummer, and want the whole frequency spectrum to myself; and (2) EVERYTHING was going to sound like it needed more low end because of the limitations of my equipment! My opinions and preferences - while completely valid for my experience - may not have worked for someone playing on different gear.
So that's a long-winded way of saying that I just need to be able to tweak presets to my setup, versus changing the entire character of their sound.
I probably will start with the $18 bundle and will likely check out the rig, just because it's so directly aligned with my interests. I think we've been at the point for years where software like this offers so many more quality tonal options than you could ever create with real-life gear, and this is just the next step in that. It's just difficult to trust because with guitar pedals, you'd go buy a $150 amp-in-a-box pedal, and find out that it sounds 95% like what you already had...because of what you plugged it into. But so many of those additional variables are removed when it's just your guitar and a set of headphones (or a FRFR monitor). I can actually have a fair degree of confidence that he sound I will hear through my Beyerdynamic DT 880's is pretty close to the guitar tone you are hearing, and which led to your recommendations. Thanks!
Saved, thanks for that. I now have the free version and the GE labs, quite simply the array of stuff confuses the heck out me!
Edge of break up is the valve/tube tone for me, in the digital world of IOS It’s very hard to find. I don't use a standard computer for music. I I keep saying it, but Flying Haggis is where I found it, five or more years ago?
Yup and there’s no shortchanging the free demo, bundles, or full pack, they are absolutely great and the reason I got addicted to this app in the first place. And whether you play at home or take them on the stage, an xlr out into a PA will be the future for many players, particularly because of the quality we have these days and the fact that you can midimap it to your feet and it’s all so portable...
The "Funk and R&B bundle" covers most of the clean/blues amps very well and includes the OverLoud TubeScreamer and some decent FX. If your an FX junkie the FX bundle is a great add-on.
Any specific amp can be added for $5 or all Amps/Cabs for $75.
Distortions/Overdrives/Fuzz can be added in a bundle but for me most of these pedals are
attempts to mimic expensive amps so I passed at $23 but I'd get them with FULL at $110.
As a Fender fan I started my iRig purchases with the American Classics package for $15.
It's got tremendous range from pristine cleans to massive metal tones.
Based on demos I want some of the clean LynchBox amps but they aren't in any bundles
so $75 for all amps is probably the right next move for me leaving only some Fuzz, distortion
stomps out of my collection.
I spent this level of investment overtime with ToneStack and Amplitube.
There is the potential we'll see Black Friday sales so create your shopping list so you don't spend too much time trying to get good advice on how to invest since there are so many
types of guitar tones and technologies to wade through.
If would be nice if OverLoud gave you credits for bundles off the FULL price so adding FULL might drop as you buy incremental bundles. That $110 one time price tag will always be
touch to justify to get another 50% (just a casual estimate) of the unlocked products if you own a couple bundles like I do. Especially when you only covet maybe 10 of the unlocked products.
OverLoud does create problems for anyone that suffers when confronted with too much choice. Like those synths with 300 knobs and no presets. But it's great because it sound so good even with free options compared to most of my other older non-AUv3 amp sims.
Wow you are the free preset guru! Thanks again. Oddly the Hendrix pack all plays fine. Tried switching things to mono on those others and still can't get sound.
I bought a rig pack also that I'm not crazy about, how do you go about asking for a refund?
I’ll take a closer look at those 3 presets, but without even plugging in my interface the app picks up the mic on my iPad, and I did notice right away that those presets only picked up sound on the left side.
For a refund you simply go to any of your Apple receipts in your email not necessarily the receipt for that specific product, and you click “report a problem”. This forwards you to a webpage where you can request a refund by selecting any of your previous purchases. The reason to give is “product doesn’t work as expected” and you should do this as fast as possible. If you request a refund minutes or hours after the purchase you’re likely to be approved. I’ve only done this a few times with apps that are very buggy or that I don’t like, and always within a few days or same day. Most of the time you will lose access to the purchase especially after an app or your system updates or you restore purchases, but sometimes IAPs will remain. Anyway refunds must always be for legitimate causes and not for freebies, and I do feel that if you drop hundreds of dollars on apps you can have an occasional refund.
Overall the rigs are really great, but there were a couple I really didn’t like because they were muddy and lacked tonal clarity overall...
FWIW, here is the free Darkface '65 pushed to the edge of break up by turning volume and tone controls to 10. The reverb is the free reverb pedal:
For the 'clean' parts with no distortion, the guitar volume knob is backed down to 8. Otherwise the knob is at 10.
Sounds great. 👍🏼
I wonder how it would do if you put something like a tube screamer plugin with the volume cranked and distortion at zero, or just a clean boost plugin.
@Bootsy Ok my friend I figured it out... for those three presets Haze, Mary, and Magic Woman, all you have to do is go to the AQTX Spring Reverb rack in the chain and turn the level up from 0% instantly works...