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Time signature App?
I asked about this about a year and a half ago or maybe two and a Half?
Is there an app that I can play/ record my riff and it will tell me the time signature?
Trust me I have tried to learn but my brain just does not comprehend time signatures. I don't know why, it just doesn't. Many have tried and failed to explain it to me- hence my search for an app. If it exists or if someone is working on one please let me know.
Thank you.
Comments
One of the many metronome apps might help ( like hey metronome). They give a lot of options for setting time signatures and let you hear what a time sig sounds like.
Probably not doable in software with much accuracy, except for very simple grooves. The trick is to learn to hear the clave, which is an arrangement of long beats and short beats. Once you have the clave down, counting out the beats becomes pretty easy.
Find down beat and count... 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and, until you hear another down beat again. Some songs are a lot harder to hear the time signature then others, but probably 95% of all songs are in 4/4 and 3/4 and those 2 are usually Fairly easy to make out.
My issue is that I come with a riff and then It does not fit in any time signature. It was discussed that some of my riffs are in two different time signatures, this makes things difficult for setting up a click track and recording in most daws. Or perhaps I am just so out of time nothing lines up
That's probably not going to happen in software.
Try editing the audio into "phrases" ... sections that regularly repeat, or at least could be looped, if any. Drop one or more of those into a DAW, and adjust the tempo until it looks like most of the higher peaks fall on a beat. Count up the total number of beats in the phrase. If it divides by four then your time signature can be considered in X/4 or X/8 time. If by three then X/3, or 6.
That's over simplified and won't work for phrases in multiple times such as 3/4 4/4 4/4/ 3/4.
What is the reason for needing to know the time signature?
I remember a story told by a guy who played keyboards on tour with Yes about five years ago. As he began rehearsals with them he would ask them what time signatures parts of some of the songs were in. They were like "We don't really worry about that. We just play it."
There you go. Just play it in, man! But if one wanted to make a sequence or a drum track that had the same accents, it would really help to know the time signature(s).
Everything can be notated in 1/1 = one quarter note per bar. I heard Alan Holdsworth suggested his
sidemen use that approach and not ask him to define the collections of 2's and 3's that most would use
for his complex time signaure changes. Just learn it as One-one-one-one.
I suspect most guitarists learn "Here Come's the Sun" without really thinking of time signatures but think more of a melody.
Now a "time signature" app implies the music has one so it should be somewhat obvious to your feet.
March and if the major pulses all happen on the same foot... it's a multiple of 2. If the major pulses
alternate even between the feet it's in 3. If it stays and move between the feet then it's one of the
2+3 combinations like 5, 7,sometimes 9 or 11.
Making most DAW's play in changing time signatures is hard or in many cases impossible but you can just layer 1/1 into any enforced scheme and make the real scheme obvious with accents or rhythmic patterns that cross the pseudo barlines.
@ralis : are you able to play along with a metronome?
Can you tap your foot along with what you play?
I know what you mean. I’ve done this a lot especially when writing on guitar.
I like that march technique
When I backpack I often pass the time while hiking by counting out different time signatures to my footfalls. I'll try some thing like 5/4, then 4/4-4/4-3/4, then 7/8, etc. Not having music to contend with and also moving at a relatively slow pace make it surprisingly easy to emphasize the "one" or whichever beats I select in my mind. Sometimes I'll get an idea for a melody or riff that fits a count while hiking and can even lay that down a once I reach camp.
That practice has actually transferred over to my ability to play in and recognize different timing schemes. I never set out with that as the goal, but it has had its effect. I highly recommend trying this while walking. It's fun and gratifying.
That said, I've never found not knowing the time signature, or even being able to play in it intentionally as a hinderance to program drum parts. I usually start by watching a grid such as a drum sequencer while a part loops. Then I try to "feel" where the snare or a kick should go. With the visual cue of the grid in front of me it's not too hard to lay in a couple of bedrock hits. From there it's usually pretty easy.
I play exclusively alone these days, so that's all I need.
For 5/4 (3+2 or 2+3) you can march with one foot in the gutter and the other on the curb.
Using crutches can also create uneven periodic pulses. Now we need an app that's sensitive to
"step" time intervals.
Yes a straight metronome with no accents yes I can tap foot to it
The riff is, I think 8th notes at 150 bpm, the first two thirds of the riff the accents are on the “and” 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and, 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and. This next part is: 1 and 2 and, then an 8 note up and down run the riff then repeats
If you can provide a little snippet of audio we can decipher it.
Once you say 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + that fits 4/4. But something tells me it's tricky and deserves a group analysis
and discussion and then an explanation of how an app might miss.
I recently watched Waddy Wachtel explain how he analyzed a Jimmy Page intro to a Led Zeppelin solo
and thought it started with on the beat but another musician told him it was just a specific Chuck Berry riff and he taught about and shifted the count to match the Chuck Berry lick which starts on the "and" of three with 3 pickup notes into the ONE. He had an Aha moment. Of course he'd played it with his other orientation for 30 years and just thought it was the most tricky intro in Rock and Roll.
There's a similar story about the engineer on the first Cream album suggesting the 1 and 3 accents
that make the drums on 'The Sunshine of Your Love" sound so innovative. It's the cliche tom-tom
pattern from the cartoons.
The drum part on Fleetwood Mac's "Go You Own Way" always throws me off. Always in a good way.
Like I've lost track of the one.
I’d suggest getting a simple drum app that can do different time sigs along the lines of say, DM1, set up some interesting patterns and start playing along. That way, if you come up with any riffs, you’ll already know the time sig, or at least, the number of beats.
An audio example will help immensely, at least we all can argue and offer you 18 different time sigs!
Then count the number of clicks in a repeating section.
You can try recording your riffs in something like Loopy then tap along and figure how many taps in a loop.
not all music has a single time signature. You might have parts with different taps per loop. taps per loop is a stand-in for any section's time signature.
The upper number of the time signature will be an integer division of the taps per loop.
In some cases there may be extra beats that are pick-up notes.
It can be tricky sometimes to recognize that case and no software can figure that out.
to lay in a couple of bedrock hits. From there it's usually pretty easy.
Did you ever hike with James Brown?
If so, did he always insist that you get on the good foot?
I’m sorry; I will show myself out.
Ha! That's the problem with analyzing something like this after the fact.. a good argument could be made for many different time signatures.. sometimes it's so obvious, it could only be one.. but when it's a riff that's actually in 5 or 7 (possibly mixed with 4/4) etc.. suddenly things can get super complicated.. as long as the whole band is on the same page when playing it, call it whatever you like.. if we start + end together, that's all that matters..
This is what I use to help
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/tempo-metronome-with-setlist/id304731501