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when the cascades arise

edited July 29 in Off-topic

Went for something a little different this time: art as a war of ideas...

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Comments

  • @echoopera nice piece...thoughtful and flows really nicely...I liked your other recent work too. You’re on a bit of a creative roll...looking at the video makes me want to update my iPad...think I’m beginning to understand the real power of Drambo too. Thank you for all you do, keep it up.

  • @echoopera said:
    Went for something a little different this time: art as a war of ideas...

    Nice piece.

    Very thoughtful.

    Who's the orator if you don't mind me asking?

  • edited July 29

    @echoopera

    Such a beautiful piece as usual.
    At the beginning, I wanted to hear A voice a la James Blake. But when the speech started it took the track to another direction, which strangely reminded me of some kind of Godspeed You Black Emperor ambient tracks. Amazing.

  • I like it!

  • edited July 29

    @arktek @Gravitas @JanKun @Intrepolicious
    Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to the track. It’s definitely a different direction for my pieces, but i do like where my muse is taking me as they say.

    The orator in the piece is Dr Jordan Peterson. There’s tons of his speeches on the youtoobers. 👊🏼™️

    I love this one a lot:

  • @echoopera

    It's the first I've ever heard of Dr.Jordan Peterson.

    It was an interesting listen.

    Have a look here.

  • Nice piece @echoopera.

    Now for a little extra context for those that might not follow North American political
    intellectual debate.

    Dr Jordan Peterson believes that the historical roots of western societies make us all
    believers in religion by our demonstrated actions. This informs his "conspriracy" theory
    that there are Godless ideologies which he labels "Post Modern Neo-Marxists" at work
    dismantling these religious western traditions.

    "Post-Modern Neo Marxist" is a contradiction in terms but it suits to position his thinking
    is contrast to a group of modern intellectuals.

    When asked in the debate to explain his beliefs about the Christian faith, Peterson said: "I would definitely describe myself as a religious man. There's no doubt about that.

    "As a westerner I am conditioned in every cell from the Judaeo Christian world view. I live my life to the best of my ability as though God exists.

    "That's the fundamental hallmark of belief, it is how you act, it's not what you say about what you think you think."

    I think Judaeo Christian morality is bets summed up by the Golden Rule "Do unto others as
    you would have them do unto you." Dr. Peterson's approach makes an self-declared atheist a self-deluded individual who's actions prove they are fundamentally religious by
    their actions.

    He uses the linkage between traditions and ethical beliefs to connect people to a religious
    orientation. This can be an effective launching pad for a variety of intolerant attitudes
    against people he disagrees with that he sweeps aside with the Neo-Marxist label.

    IMHO, It's a lazy approach to complex issues of social justice and tolerance for diversity across a large swath of issues and a short hand for a religion based world view that sees
    dangers in a slowly changing world that is moving away from his fundamental "truth".

    As you slowly dig into the arguments Peterson makes for a more perfect world order you'll
    see he's closer to alt-right thinking that opposes women's equality and complex issues of
    gender. It was his opposition to gender pronouns that brought him to prominence as an
    intellectual champion opposing "Social Justice Warriors" as the alt-right terms those seeking to advance ideas of gender as a fluid spectrum of behaviors and actions.

    The more I dig into these political and intellectual chasms the more I begin to think I should focus on maintaining an open mind that can accept that there can't be a single view
    of the world that will fit all the available facts and potential options for organizing social and political structures.

  • Thanks for the assessment @McD

    We are definitely living in intellectually challenging and volatile times, but I think at the heart of it all, we must maintain a certain civility in debate, discourse and pursuit of understanding higher goals and aspirations in life. The shouting matches and vitriol which is so rampant in the online world, is no way to come to an understanding of the plight of the human condition. Not much has changed for us as a species in thousands of years if we examine it through specific lenses. There is so much suffering in life, but there is also much freedom to be obtained.

    I think the main take away I wanted to address in the piece was that some of the Marxist rhetoric and actions which are occurring in the US, are reminiscent of what happened in Russia pre-Lenin/Stalin, Cambodia, China...the overt attempt to control all thought and actions and the erasing of historical records of a peoples past in the name of 'betterment' for the people. Once your past is gone, who is dictating your present and future path in life?

    We all know what happens to a society which has forgotten its past...it is doomed to repeat it in more monstrous ways than ever imagined. It's like a child who won't listen to the wisdom given to them, and seek to 'strike' out on their own, ignoring the successes and failures offered to them via wisdom and life models to build from. Standing on the shoulders of giants comes to mind.

    Sure, we must be given the freedom to learn on our own, but when it comes to Human Suffering and oppression, we must take a longer look at the solutions we are proposing to put in place to achieve a more just and prosperous society.

    I attempt to approach life from a perspective of compassion and servitude. It's not always easy to stay the course, but I am thankful that I have wisdom and guidelines to assist me in living in the world I was born in to. I want nothing more than what our Declaration of Independence entitles us to:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Cheers!

  • edited July 29

    Sigh. I come here to escape politics. Pity, as the music in this track is very cool. Another important fact for Americans: 1619. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-african-slave-ship-arrives-jamestown-colony. Those who forget history condemned to repeat it, etcetera. Puts those claims about all men being equal in context.

  • @Svetlovska said:
    I come here to escape politics. Pity, as the music in this track is very cool.

    Thanks for giving it a listen.

  • edited July 29

    And thank you for that response. As a trans person (a category Mr Peterson has had some issues with) might I counter cite this critique on his thought:

  • @echoopera

    My posting wasn't to derail the conversation about politics and religion.

    It was merely to provide another perspective of politics, religion and faith.

    Anusheh, I can use her first name because I personally know her,
    studied with and the Fakir's in Bangladesh.

    Here's the philosopher who's teachings that her band ,'Bangla',
    brought to a wider audience over in Bangladesh and
    led them to performing worldwide.

    Lalon Shah's teachings has been a great inspiration
    for many including Allen Ginsburg.

    I thought you would find it interesting in context.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalon

  • @Svetlovska Thanks for posting this. This was actually a great video and really loved the approach of the piece...I felt like I was watching a Monty Python Skit merged with pure Philosophical Discourse.

    I love the fact that it started out with a sort of 18th century motif, because it reminded me a little of Candide by Voltaire. The melding of humor and serious topics helped the message a lot. Very sophisticated approach to dropping knowledge.

    Cheers.

  • edited July 29

    @Gravitas said:
    @echoopera

    My posting wasn't to derail the conversation about politics and religion.

    It was merely to provide another perspective of politics, religion and faith.

    Anusheh, I can use her first name because I personally know her,
    studied with and the Fakir's in Bangladesh.

    Here's the philosopher who's teachings that her band ,'Bangla',
    brought to a wider audience over in Bangladesh and
    led them to performing worldwide.

    Lalon Shah's teachings has been a great inspiration
    for many including Allen Ginsburg.

    I thought you would find it interesting in context.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalon

    No worries mate. As someone who has been on the eternal quest to better myself in life, it's always good to know how others think and to learn from the values they've incorporated into their lives to help them live a better life.

    Life is too short to put one another down ya know.

    We're all in this together...and if we can help one another to see the light and live the best lives we can...then guess what...we've helped to educate the next generation on how to live life to the fullest. I know this sounds like 'self-help' mumbo jumbo, but it works.

    And no @Svetlovska I didn't learn this in an AA program ;)

  • @echoopera : glad you liked it :) My elevator pitch for Contrapoints’ schtick would be : ‘PoMo Philosophy 101 as a John Waters movie’. tldr: I think she’s fab.

  • @Svetlovska said:
    @echoopera : glad you liked it :) My elevator pitch for Contrapoints’ schtick would be : ‘PoMo Philosophy 101 as a John Waters movie’. tldr: I think she’s fab.

    Ahh..yeah, you're right. It does remind me of John Waters...I knew something was familiar with it. It was rattling around in my head, "Who does she remind me of?"

  • @echoopera said:
    I think the main take away I wanted to address in the piece was that some of the Marxist rhetoric and actions which are occurring in the US, are reminiscent of what happened in Russia pre-Lenin/Stalin, Cambodia, China...

    Now that shows me how you interpret current events. Fear of socialism in the west battles my fears of totalitarianism which effectively replaced the old order in the east. Same situation and 2 different views of the dangers.

    I see our "Dear Leader" calling the New York Times the "enemy of the people", putting immigrant children in detention facilities after sending their parent(s) out of the country,
    and cozying up to every dictator around the globe while tearing down the institutions of
    the post-war world using coded labels similar to what I've called out here.

    A complex reality exists and we all impose our world view and solutions onto it. I think there is a vast middle ground we could work with to maintain social order and avoid the errors of the 20th century experiments.

    What we see is not a pure form of capitalism but a form of post-soviet Kleptocracy and
    manipulation.

    We will get shut down pretty soon but I can see your point of view and let you have your views while I try to add a little context to the political message.

  • edited July 29

    @McD said:

    @echoopera said:
    I think the main take away I wanted to address in the piece was that some of the Marxist rhetoric and actions which are occurring in the US, are reminiscent of what happened in Russia pre-Lenin/Stalin, Cambodia, China...

    Now that shows me how you interpret current events. Fear of socialism in the west battles my fears of totalitarianism which effectively replaced the old order in the east. Same situation and 2 different views of the dangers.

    I see our "Dear Leader" calling the New York Times the "enemy of the people", putting immigrant children in detention facilities after sending their parent(s) out of the country,
    and cozying up to every dictator around the globe while tearing down the institutions of
    the post-war world using coded labels similar to what I've called out here.

    A complex reality exists and we all impose our world view and solutions onto it. I think there is a vast middle ground we could work with to maintain social order and avoid the errors of the 20th century experiments.

    What we see is not a pure form of capitalism but a form of post-soviet Kleptocracy and
    manipulation.

    We will get shut down pretty soon but I can see your point of view and let you have your views while I try to add a little context to the political message.

    I think there's always a middle ground...and I think at times, we forget this, and this is what tilts things into the weird wildness we are experiencing during these times. That being said, I'm just glad my parents immigrated here from Central America in the 60's and not today. If they hadn't left, I'd probably be in detention or worse. It's terribly sad what is being done to my people. So much is being lost to grasp at the delusion of control. :(

    I guess what they say is true, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  • edited July 29

    Isn't there an OT forum for people that want to talk about their political beliefs instead of poisoning the sections dedicated to music?

    Great piece of music btw

  • @Svetlovska

    Thanks for the video link.

    Very informative.

    I liked the delivery and it provides balance.
    Thank you.

    @echoopera

    I agree life is to short to put each other down.
    You're beliefs are no better than mine.
    No judgement.

    Little bit of background.
    I trained as a R.E teacher in my teens, got the certificate and
    excommunicated myself from the Catholic Church soon after.
    Why?
    Because I grew tired of the hypocrisy of ,"white judeo-christians',
    who didn't follow their faith properly and abused their positions
    in society here in the U.K during the 80's, not to say that it has
    only been white Christians who have done this I can list numerous religions,
    countries and skin colours that have also done this.
    Judeo-Christian based faiths are no exception in this regards.

    So when I hear orators such as Dr.Jorden Peterson
    I'm always curious as to how they combine their faith
    with their politics, whether I like them or not.

    Finishing of the religion side of things.
    Christianity itself should be about acceptance of all
    including LGBT, transgender, black, white, purple, pink etc.

    The word ,'Catholic', itself means universal
    and all Christian faiths stem from Catholicism
    so therefore...

    We can intellectualise so much of this but the
    bottom line is exactly as @McD has mentioned,
    'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

    The problem with combining religion and politics is that both are blinding.
    Both have been used to encourage fear, anger and insecurities.
    We can see this in the World around us.

    Forgive my digression.

    This is good food for thought.

  • edited July 29

    ...

  • edited July 29

    ...

  • @Montreal_Music ReAMP is really nice as an effects plug-in. I love using it in the mastering channel, on keys and also the tape effect at times. It offers some nice qualities for adding a little extra to your sound.

  • edited July 29

    ...

  • I think we could have complete melt downs over music too but we are very tolerant
    of a wide range of musical interests and show respect according to the merits of the work and sincere intentions of the creators.

    When we shift away from music it does go off the rails and we loose somebody that feels
    attacked for deeply held views that might face condemnation. I really miss @infocheck
    for example. His knowledge and the efforts to share it here were legendary.

    I do think we will need to talk over these issues at some point in some safe space or
    face the consequences of polarization. It won't fix itself.

    We are already suffering for a lack of respect for expertise and the benefits of science to
    provide solutions.

    Follow the money and consider who benefits from these polemic civil wars.

  • @McD said:
    I think we could have complete melt downs over music too but we are very tolerant
    of a wide range of musical interests and show respect according to the merits of the work and sincere intentions of the creators.

    When we shift away from music it does go off the rails and we loose somebody that feels
    attacked for deeply held views that might face condemnation. I really miss @infocheck
    for example. His knowledge and the efforts to share it here were legendary.

    I do think we will need to talk over these issues at some point in some safe space or
    face the consequences of polarization. It won't fix itself.

    We are already suffering for a lack of respect for expertise and the benefits of science to
    provide solutions.

    Follow the money and consider who benefits from these polemic civil wars.

    Agreed.

  • edited July 29

    Thanks for the comments everyone. I meant no ill will with the track, and sorry if it came across that way in any fashion. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

    On a personal note, what has been good is learning a lot more from each of you. The great thing about beliefs, and having a Free Thinking mind is that I can choose what info goes in, and stays and develops and is nurtured, and what info needs to get tossed out with the trash :)

    If we treated life like iOS apps, things might be better for everyone :) Err...maybe not :wink:

  • @echoopera said:
    Thanks for the comments everyone. I meant no ill will with the track, and sorry if it came across that way in any fashion.

    Not at all.
    Like I mentioned, good food for thought.
    It's the first political/religious/ post in awhile
    that hasn't regressed into mud slinging.
    Quite refreshing.

    On a personal note, what has been good is learning a lot more from each of you. The great thing about beliefs, and having a Free Thinking mind is that I can choose what info goes in, and stays and develops and is nurtured, and what info needs to get tossed out with the trash :)

    Exactly.

    If we treated life like iOS apps, things might be better for everyone :) Err...maybe not :wink:

    😏

  • McDMcD
    edited July 29

    @echoopera said:
    Thanks for the comments everyone. I meant no ill will with the track, and sorry if it came across that way in any fashion. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

    No need to censor yourself. I only added context because many of these intellectuals
    surfacing have flaws in their views that might need to be disclosed. Sam Harris, Eric and Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Tyler Cowan and Peter Theil are brilliant minds that can really provoke me to think deeply about the world and what really needs fixing.

    I think Libertarianism is a severely flawed approach to governance along with Anarchy
    on the other end of the scales. There's something pragmatic about balancing polar opposites and refusing to believe in pat answers.

    W.R.T. your music I would love it if you would share one of these complete Drambo efforts on PatchStorage to study your techniques or at a minimum describe your workflow to build something like this. Some has posted a question on how to create triggered loops in Drambo and I think you'll know the answer along with @rs2000 and a few others.

  • edited July 29

    @McD
    Thanks mate. I am going to do a short little walk thru on how i use Drambo with voice over and make that available soon. Not sure what I’ll end up making but it will cover things like:
    FlexiSampler
    Conditionals
    MultiOut
    MidiOut
    And setting it up in AUM.

    My normal workflow.

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