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Mozaic: How to detect a "long tap" (0.5secs) on my BlueBoard?

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Comments

  • _ki_ki
    edited July 2020

    grmpfff... i’ out of ideas.

    Maybe @wim can try around with his BlueBoard and the current script source.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2020

    I'll test with my BlueBoard. I've never done any lengthy tests or tests with many notes coming in quick succession. It could well be a BlueBoard bug. I doubt it's a feature that IK pays a huge amount of attention to. I certainly never thought of looking down at my feet for confirmation of toe taps, and wouldn't trust I could see those lights under daylight or bright lights anyway.

    @josh83 - clever idea about using audio. I don't think I could keep playing with that going on, but you're probably a much better musician than me. I do believe that could work though. ;)

    (Also ... @_ki for the record, the manual doesn't say anything about only receiving on channel 1 for the LEDs. That was a wrong assumption on my part.)

  • @wim said:
    I'll test with my BlueBoard. I've never done any lengthy tests or tests with many notes coming in quick succession. It could well be a BlueBoard bug. I doubt it's a feature that IK pays a huge amount of attention to. I certainly never thought of looking down at my feet for confirmation of toe taps, and wouldn't trust I could see those lights under daylight or bright lights anyway.

    I'm very much eager to know whether you can reproduce my problems... and whether you'll have an idea on how to improve it. Indeed - looking at the buttons isn't very practical, but it would just be fun to code some nice feedback using the buttons. I mean: they can glow - so they should glow, shouldn't they? :wink:

    @josh83 - clever idea about using audio. I don't think I could keep playing with that going on, but you're probably a much better musician than me. I do believe that could work though. ;)

    I think it wouldn't be difficult to listen to some short audio sample like "Guitar input selected" or similar, or even just an audio signal like "Boink!" to confirm my interaction with the BlueBoard.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2020

    Hi @josh83. I can't reproduce your problem. I tested dozens of presses and several script reloads.

    I suspected midimittr, since that's a difference between what you're doing and what I am, but I couldn't reproduce it with midimittr either. So ... the next most likely culprit is the BlueBoard itself. Maybe you were right that having an older hardware device with the USB port is the cause. That seems unlikely with the same firmware, but it could be.

    As a side-note, you don't need midimittr to connect the Blueboard. You can connect In AUM > Settings > Bluetooth Midi > Central. I personally like to involve as few moving parts as possible.

    Also, to clarify Mozaic behavior:

    • When you Upload a script, all variables are reset.
    • When you save a script, any variables set at the time are saved with the script. So it's critical to press Upload just before saving the script.
    • If you load a script that had variable values saved in it (due to not doing the above), those variables are restored to the saved values until you press Upload.
    • When you load a host session all variables that aren't initialized in @OnLoad are restored to where they were when the session was saved.

    Just for completeness: What model iPad and iOS version? I'm on iPad Air2 with iOS 13.5.1.

  • edited July 2020

    @josh83 I use a very simple StreamByter code (send 4 notes on « install rules » to enable/disable all 4 buttons backlits, this is for pure visibility in the dark purpose like on stage. Sometimes, only 3 buttons give light, instead of 4. Most of the time that works but it can be a bit unreliable at times. There were no errors in my various Midifire StreamByter modules routings, I think the issue is on BB. I know there are different hardware versions, mine is 3 years old. Perhaps more recent ones have no issues. But for sure that’s the only problem I had encountered with BB, it’s fortunately very reliable for midi triggering and BT connectivity.

  • edited July 2020

    Thanks for adding this info, @wim and @Janosax!

    As a side-note, you don't need midimittr to connect the Blueboard. You can connect In AUM > Settings > Bluetooth Midi > Central. I personally like to involve as few moving parts as possible.

    Good to know! One app less in the soup. :blush:

    it's critical to press Upload just before saving the script.

    Ah, also good to know! I never saved a script yet though...

    What model iPad and iOS version? I'm on iPad Air2 with iOS 13.5.1.

    I am indeed on an old iPhone 5S with iOS 12 (not 13).

    Sometimes, only 3 buttons give light, instead of 4.

    Yeah, sounds somehow close enough to my experience. I think I will just light up all buttons at the very start so I can see them in the dark, and then not touch their light status anymore. UPDATE: Done! https://github.com/jmuheim/mozaic-blueboard/commit/6ad36e9e44884843d24ba4d91a95e7c4ce3836d9

    But for sure that’s the only problem I had encountered with BB, it’s fortunately very reliable for midi triggering and BT connectivity.

    And that's the really important stuff! My BlueBoard seems to be one of the very first ones, and it still works very well regarding these factors.

  • edited July 2020

    Just for the records: this whole thing keeps being a mystery. After updating my script and trying it in AUM, it didn't illuminate any button at first, and while I could long-tap, the short-taps didn't do anything at all anymore! This had not happened before.

    After some fruitless debugging (incl. restarting the BB) I simply restarted my iPhone, then tried again. And then it worked.

    It somehow feels to me like there is some virtual "debris" accumulating when playing around with all these tools, which sometimes can only be cleared when restarting iOS.

    So note to myself: restart iOS from time to time! I hope that when having a clean script, this won't be necessary anymore (i.e. during live situations), but while developing it seems to be the only fool-proof way of making sure that stuff works as expected.

  • And just for the records 2: I hoped that after an iOS restart (and without any "virtual debris"), maybe the older version of my script (with illuminating specific buttons upon long-press) would work robustly, too. But no, it doesn't.

    So I think the only moment where you can expect BlueBoard to react ~100% robustly upon some commands to illuminate its buttons is at the very start of a script and interaction. And then just leave it that way and don't try to alter it again.

  • edited July 2020

    @josh83

    You should try also with StreamByter AUV3 which is free on the AppStore:

    Use this code for all lights ON

    IF LOAD
    SND 90 3C 7F
    SND 90 3E 7F
    SND 90 40 7F
    SND 90 41 7F
    END

    Then tap on install the rules button and see how it works.

    Same for all lights OFF

    IF LOAD
    SND 80 3C 00
    SND 80 3E 00
    SND 80 40 00
    SND 80 41 00
    END

    Or perhaps it’s also related to AUM/AUV3/Mozaic? I have strange issues with round robin Mozaic factory script, sometimes it works sometimes I have to trigger the note two times to make it works, like if there was a timeout after which it doesn’t listen to input anymore. If you have Midifire which is very reliable for midi stuff, you could try your Mozaic script inside it as it supports AUV3.

    Also have you tried to set a different small delay to each note sent to BB? Perhaps BB has issues with received polyphony?

  • Thanks, @Janosax, I might dig into this deeper when I find the time.

  • Sadly @Janosax StreamByter is no longer offered on the App Store.

  • You’re right. I guess whatever caused it to disappear earlier was resolved. There was a thread about it not too long ago.

  • I still suspect your issues are either IOS version related or hardware related. I simply cannot make mine fail, using the sane scripts as you.

  • @wim said:
    I still suspect your issues are either IOS version related or hardware related. I simply cannot make mine fail, using the sane scripts as you.

    At least this gives me some hope. I guess I will have to replace my iPhone 5S anyway some time soon (I'd love to have an iPhone SE, which has the same dimensions but is quite a bit newer). As soon as this happened, I will try again. And if this doesn't have any effect, I might try to replace my BlueBoard with a more recent one some day.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2020

    You aren’t by chance using rechargeable batteries in the BlueBoard are you?

  • @wim said:
    You aren’t using rechargeable batteries are you?

    Haha, for sure I am! I'm a sustainability-advocate! :smiley: But yeah I remember that the manual advises against it. I will see whether it behaves differently with non-rechargeable ones.

  • Bingo. I won’t be surprised at all if that is the issue.

  • @wim said:
    Bingo. I won’t be surprised at all if that is the issue.

    I would have been pretty surprised. And I just checked it out: there's no difference with "normal" (non-rechargeable) batteries. Thank God! :wink:

  • I have a 7 Plus with latest iOS, I haven’t tested with my Air 3 but older BB are better candidate I think. Have you tried to update BB firmware?

  • Yeah, I updated the firmware. It was a huge mess and took 2 or 3 days, see my description of it here: https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24780 :flushed:

  • @wim said:
    You’re right. I guess whatever caused it to disappear earlier was resolved. There was a thread about it not too long ago.

    It was a paperwork snafu. Resolved within days of the dev becoming aware.

  • wimwim
    edited July 2020

    @josh83 said:

    @wim said:
    Bingo. I won’t be surprised at all if that is the issue.

    I would have been pretty surprised. And I just checked it out: there's no difference with "normal" (non-rechargeable) batteries. Thank God! :wink:

    I feel compelled to post this nonetheless.

    And logically it makes sense that a device that relies on using battery power to power a radio could be adversely affected by batteries that output a lower voltage (1.2v vs 1.5). Even the NanoKEY Studio Bluetooth device has to be specifically told which type of battery is being used to adapt its performance.

    I hate consuming non-rechareable batteries too, but I can't help thinking you're setting yourself up for performance problems. Intermittent problems. The worst kind of problem to have.

    Your choice completely of course. ;) ✌🏼

  • @wim said:
    Your choice completely of course. ;) ✌🏼

    Thanks for stating it again. I think I will just take the risk. :neutral:

  • @wim said:

    @josh83 said:

    @wim said:
    Bingo. I won’t be surprised at all if that is the issue.

    I would have been pretty surprised. And I just checked it out: there's no difference with "normal" (non-rechargeable) batteries. Thank God! :wink:

    I feel compelled to post this nonetheless.

    And logically it makes sense that a device that relies on using battery power to power a radio could be adversely affected by batteries that output a lower voltage (1.2v vs 1.5). Even the NanoKEY Studio Bluetooth device has to be specifically told which type of battery is being used to adapt its performance.

    I hate consuming non-rechareable batteries too, but I can't help thinking you're setting yourself up for performance problems. Intermittent problems. The worst kind of problem to have.

    Your choice completely of course. ;) ✌🏼

    The applicability of such warnings is highly variable. Many devices work fine with high-quality rechargeables. Sometimes the primary issue is that you need to swap batteries more frequently and battery level indicators are useless.

    I use low-discharge rechargeables in my Blueboard without a problem.

    Not all rechargeables are alike.

    It is true that in some devices they don't work but in devices with low power consumption they often do.

  • I'm using Energizer rechargeables. No idea how good they are, but I think they can't be too bad.

  • I just ordered a used iPhone SE, so I'm not limited to iOS 12 anymore. I will report back whether anything works better with it regarding BlueBoard. :smiley:

  • Just wanted to note that I have expanded my script a little bit. Now switching spaces needs to press a button for a second, and pressing a button for half a second triggers an additional note. This expands the range from 16 to 32 notes!

    For more info see the README: https://github.com/jmuheim/mozaic-blueboard

    Now I got another question: I'd love to give some audio feedback after a button is pressed for exactly 1 second (so I know that I can release it). As described in AUM: Play short audio files upon receiving specific MIDI signals?, I have set up a nice way of providing audio feedback using a sampler with a custom preset, loaded as AUv3.

    So I only need to know how to wait for a second after receiving the "MIDI on" event, and then, if the "off" event has not arrived yet, send the MIDI signal which would trigger the sampler's audio file.

    Any idea?

  • edited August 2020

    That’s very interesting, good job Josh!! I’ll have to try it :)

    Audio feedback can be interesting if you use multi outputs audio interfaces.

    But here is my advice: it’s better to know where you are without this. That will take time but it’s doable with practice.

    If you do a long press B you know that you’re on space B with all related actions. How could you forget it while playing? Same if you switch on space C and so on.

    You have to learn all your actions (you can organise them in a clever/easy to remember way) and then perform them just like you perform a score by memory on your instrument. Or just like jazz improvisation when you know all your harmony, chords, scales...

    You can have some actions common to all spaces, like main loop recording.

    Ok my script, I’m now able to perform my improvisation with effects presets changes, groups switching, muting, soloing, recording/overdubbing without looking at my pedalboard nor at my iPhone, without making mistakes. I’m not a multitasking guy at all, but it’s really doable.

    The key here is to practice your actions without your instrument just to learn all the mechanisms, like when your practice scales. And also to practice on a very regular base, even daily when possible.

    That will give you that feeling of freedom looping can provide :)

    In summary audio feedback should only be a help at beginning.

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