I have fully stepped away from iOS music production

Bill_Brasky

@reasOne said:
i personally enjoying getting a new ipad every few years 😎

Good that you support a very wasteful company that does all it can to make its customers buy new instead of getting the most out of their products. Profit over people is their motto and this attitude only lets that prevail. By not letting their products be upgradeable their e-waste footprint is massive. Apple champions themselves as a responsible company in terms of their pollution but the factories that produce all the chips, batteries and screens are just devastating to the environment not to mention the extremely low wages these factories pay their workers.

I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

noob

ok. but but... (drives away in Hummer)

jolico

@Bill_Brasky said:

@reasOne said:
i personally enjoying getting a new ipad every few years 😎

Good that you support a very wasteful company that does all it can to make its customers buy new instead of getting the most out of their products. Profit over people is their motto and this attitude only lets that prevail. By not letting their products be upgradeable their e-waste footprint is massive. Apple champions themselves as a responsible company in terms of their pollution but the factories that produce all the chips, batteries and screens are just devastating to the environment not to mention the extremely low wages these factories pay their workers.

I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

...he commented while using his electronic device made with conflict minerals.

AudioGus

@Bill_Brasky said:
I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

rs2000

@Bill_Brasky Thank you very much for the warning about iPadOS.
Still on 12, no issues and most likely no update soon.

noob

meh

auxmux

An iPad is not a computer. As much as Apple and our brains/hearts want this to be true.

For me, both computers and iPads have their place. Each is a tool. Think of an iPad like an MPC, Elektron box or any hardware. It will never be a singular tool to replace what's possible with a computer. Each tool is limited and we need to expect and accept limitations.

mistercharlie

@Bill_Brasky said:

Good that you support a very wasteful company that does all it can to make its customers buy new instead of getting the most out of their products. Profit over people is their motto and this attitude only lets that prevail. By not letting their products be upgradeable their e-waste footprint is massive. Apple champions themselves as a responsible company in terms of their pollution but the factories that produce all the chips, batteries and screens are just devastating to the environment not to mention the extremely low wages these factories pay their workers.

I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

I’m running a ten-year-old iMac and a 2008 MacBook. The iMac is my main work machine, for lots more than just music. The MacBook is easily good enough for Ableton.

I’m not aware of any modern, non-gaming laptops available today that let you upgrade CPUs. I wish MacBooks still has user-replaceable RAM and SSDs, but people buy smaller and lighter laptops, and that’s the trade off.

Old hardware is supported with regular security updates. The “batterygate” throttling thing was actually a way to keep older hardware running for longer, even though it ended up being seen as the opposite by conspiracy-theorists. The latest macOS update for the 16-inch MacBook Pro learns your charging habits and avoids charging to 100% while plugged in if possible, to lengthen battery life.

MacBook Airs are made 100% from aluminum recycled from milling iPad Pros.

Apple as a company also runs off 100% renewable energy, and that includes the retails stores, worldwide. It’s easy and fashionable to knock a big company like Apple, but environmentally it’s a lot better than most other tech hardware companies. It’s obviously far from perfect, but is headed in the right direction.

db909

still on iOS 12 and loving it.

u0421793

For me, this is what I said a week or so ago, and it works here too:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/797306/#Comment_797306

wim

@Strizbiz said:
... I don’t place all the blame on the hardware, I feel like software developers want to take advantage of the new IPad CPU’s and develop apps that NEED the latest hardware to run one or two instances smoothly, as opposed to taking advantage of the hardware to let us run more instances.

That little bit there makes no sense. Developers (other than Apple) get no benefit at all from forcing hardware updates on people. No developer in their right mind purposefully makes apps that run on fewer devices. Yes, there are differing levels of skill among developers, and differing attitudes toward time/investment in optimizing performance, but intentionally? Not a chance.

I've always been convinced that another cause is developers liking to have the latest and greatest hardware. It seems like the faster computers developers have, the faster computers end up being needed to run their software. I used to jokingly advocate for downgrading software engineer's computers during my IT management years. That one didn't make me any friends.

But, even that probably isn't as big a factor with iOS development since the device isn't the one they do development on. Developers can have slow iOS devices and still have the latest in development hardware.

Apple on the other hand has every motivation to make new versions of their operating systems discourage hanging onto older hardware. I'm convinced they do this. I'm also convinced that's partially why they make it impossible to downgrade the OS, and even force the latest on any "restore". I went one OS too far on my old iPad 2, which was perfectly useful but now is practically useless. That pisses me off ... but lesson learned and moving on.

At least with desktops you can usually roll back to a previous OS version and "restore from backup" really means what it seems to. And, as long as you back things up, an app being taken off the market doesn't result in it no longer being available like it does on iOS.

dendy

@rs2000 said:
@Bill_Brasky Thank you very much for the warning about iPadOS.
Still on 12, no issues and most likely no update soon.

to be honest, my experience is significant improvement in stability and performance (especially AU plugins) on PadOS compared to iOS 12... for example iSymphonic or Ravenscroft can run more imstances without crackles or crashes... i'm pretty sure 13 is significant performance boost when compared to 12 (at least on my 2019 MINI5 model)

robertreynolds

@Bill_Brasky said:

@reasOne said:
i personally enjoying getting a new ipad every few years 😎

Good that you support a very wasteful company that does all it can to make its customers buy new instead of getting the most out of their products. Profit over people is their motto and this attitude only lets that prevail. By not letting their products be upgradeable their e-waste footprint is massive. Apple champions themselves as a responsible company in terms of their pollution but the factories that produce all the chips, batteries and screens are just devastating to the environment not to mention the extremely low wages these factories pay their workers.

I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

They seem pretty serious about reducing their impact on the environment, but that might be hard for you to see way up there on your moral high ground.

klownshed

Logic has been the centre of my music making since v1. I never went all-in on iOS.

My circumstances have changed significantly to when I used to sync logic to an 8 track reel to reel.

Family and kids have replaced a spare room studio and too much time.

iOS has been the gateway drug back in to making music, apps like Blockswave have enable me to just have fun again and I’m more productive today than I have been for a decade. Thanks to having an iPhone and AirPods always with me so I can make music when I have both the inclination and time. Which is an all too rare combination these days. Without iOS I’d never start making music.

But logic is still king.

I like having both. And iOS makes for cool instruments to plug in to logic and for hardware fx units to use with my hardware synths (if I ever get a chance to use them )

So in my book anything that gets you inspired and making music is great. Whether that be a Pc, Mac, iPad, violin, piano or guitar.

Just be happy and make music. :-)

Apex

@reasOne said:
i personally enjoying getting a new ipad every few years 😎

And its not like laptops or desktops last that much longer either. My main studio computer is frozen on 10.11 now and probably won’t be able to take many more (if any) Ableton update.

I definitely feel some of the frustration w/ iOS. Especially on the DAW front. But I’m not really relying 100% on it either. All my sequencing is done with hardware. In fact, I’m largely hardware based in general. Way less headaches that way. As much as I would love it, I would never expect ‘1 to 1’ performance between a PC and an iPad.

reasOne

@Bill_Brasky said:

@reasOne said:
i personally enjoying getting a new ipad every few years 😎

Good that you support a very wasteful company that does all it can to make its customers buy new instead of getting the most out of their products. Profit over people is their motto and this attitude only lets that prevail. By not letting their products be upgradeable their e-waste footprint is massive. Apple champions themselves as a responsible company in terms of their pollution but the factories that produce all the chips, batteries and screens are just devastating to the environment not to mention the extremely low wages these factories pay their workers.

I would never openly gloat about supporting subhuman scum but you do you.

haha feel better?
and yes i am scum , good for you that you work for minimum wage somewhere for the best company ever that is completely scum free and cares 100000% for their employees, customers and the environment... good to see you standing your ground in anti corporations. now maybe if you hate apple so much you shouldn’t be on a forum for something that runs on their product... seems very contradictiony

rs2000

@dendy said:

@rs2000 said:
@Bill_Brasky Thank you very much for the warning about iPadOS.
Still on 12, no issues and most likely no update soon.

to be honest, my experience is significant improvement in stability and performance (especially AU plugins) on PadOS compared to iOS 12... for example iSymphonic or Ravenscroft can run more imstances without crackles or crashes... i'm pretty sure 13 is significant performance boost when compared to 12 (at least on my 2019 MINI5 model)

@Bill_Brasky reported about issues on the iPad 6 / 2018 model which is exactly mine.
The Mini 5 is a very recent one and it's easy for Apple to treat this one differently.

Jelleebean

Hi Bill.

I hope you stick around on the forum.

I nearly bought a new MacBook this year but bought a gaming laptop instead. I’m a Software Developer and needed a beefy laptop for development tools and yes I can play games on it too!! 😂

I was annoyed when Apple stopped supporting my 2011 MacBook Pro - High Sierra was the last version supporting my MacBook. I managed to install Catalina with a software hack and it runs buttery smooth on my 2011 MacBook!!

I have the best of both worlds now my iPad is still a useful instrument too.

Gaia.Tree

I hope to upgrade my gen6 iPad to the Mini5 soon , but it’s serving me rather well for now. I don’t try to push it too hard but rather just try to get stems to put on my hardware sampler. I’d be glad to go all iOS if my iPad could handle everything I throw at it, but it kinda doesn’t.

[Deleted User]

I figured the same long time ago... launchpad cracklefest on iOS11? 12? I can't remember...

Just use the iPad with BlocsWave, GTL, Lumbeats and Logic control and you will be fine. No need to burn it neither. Get Logic and enjoy life again.

Easy.

Jonny8

For me it's not really an either/or question.
Both ios devices and computers have pros and cons. Both systems allow you to do things that you can't do with the other.
I personally wouldn't want to run a project with 50 tracks and 100 plugins on a screen the size of an ipad even if it was possible.
And I think it is really great that today you can enter the field of electronic music making without having to spend thousands of euros. Just compare the functionality of ios apps you can buy for the price of a new kaoss pad 3 with the functionality of the kaoss pad 3.
When it comes to updating/buying hardware I think it has more to do with the person than what kind of device they are using.

ecou

@dendy said:

@rs2000 said:
@Bill_Brasky Thank you very much for the warning about iPadOS.
Still on 12, no issues and most likely no update soon.

to be honest, my experience is significant improvement in stability and performance (especially AU plugins) on PadOS compared to iOS 12... for example iSymphonic or Ravenscroft can run more imstances without crackles or crashes... i'm pretty sure 13 is significant performance boost when compared to 12 (at least on my 2019 MINI5 model)

Same for me. iPad Pro second gen 10.5

skulptur_sound

I’ve stepped back too, use to be on iPad, Bm3 everyday, but since covid19 and all the crashes with bm3 I started using zenbeats on my Android phone and my Hackintosh, Roland added a update and zenbeats wouldn’t open cause my Hackintosh was so out of date., after 10 days I was finally able to update my Hackintosh and now zenbeats acting all bugged so back to my bottom bi*#h Reason,. I’m not writing off my iPad, but my mpc500 seems more reliable then bm3 and just got new rechargeable batteries for the 500. Also looking at power banks for my mpc1000 with jjos3 it’s a dream, still BM3 is faster then anything, but.....

echoopera

I've stopped using deodorant and toothpaste and toilet paper...mostly because I refuse to use the toilet until this whole pandemic stops driving us all BONKERS!

And yes, I did imply that I brush my teeth in the toilet.

There. I said it.

Hope this comes across as humor. I've been practicing it almost daily to keep my spirits up. Let me know if anyone is interested in taking a Master Class on Comedy from me on Zoom. I am sure I can find the time to set one up.

Now, everyone, get out of this thread and go and make music...whether it's with a Cheese Grader, an OP-1, an iPad running iPad OS 13 or a Mac/PC running Ableton or Fruity Loops. The world needs our music now more than ever.

Peace Blessings and Love to you All!

And now for something completely different...
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studs1966

@Bill_Brasky said:
For the last month I stopped using the iPad for music (and really everything else) and I don’t think I’ll be going back. For the last couple years I immersed myself in the iOS production paradigm and while I enjoyed myself to a degree I found myself running into walls constantly. I know limitations inspire creativity but that isn’t my problem.

My biggest issue with ios anything is the necessity to keep buying better, faster processors I.e newer iPads. Before iPadOS I was running my 2018 iPad without too much issue. I’m not saying iPadOS ruined the ipad I’ve been using but things went downhill all too quickly. It got to a point when I could only have 5 or 6 tracks with fx in ns2, anything beyond that crackles galore would ensue. The same happens in Gadget and Cubasis.

While shopping for a new iPad back in early April I started missing making music on laptop. I found a great, souped up laptop online for a great price and pulled the trigger on that instead and frankly I couldn’t be happier. Using my old favorite DAW again (Reaper) in conjunction with some newly acquired hardware OP-Z, Modal Skulpt I have decided to stick with this way of music production. I have 18 tracks going in my daw right now without a single hitch. Something my iPad could never have done without buying a new iPad but then I would have had the same cpu issue in two years time and would have necessitated buying yet another iPad when I can just simply upgrade my laptops RAM for a fraction of the price.

While I do still enjoy using some iOS synths stand-alone (Sunrizer and Drambo) I just find iOS too limiting for a proper creative studio and I am tired of spending more money on Apple hardware every two years. Maybe I will return to this platform down the road but for now, I think I am done with iOS. T’was an interesting journey and when you’re on the move as much as I have been the last few years it is very mobile and works well for staying creative on the road but when I am at home and want to create tracks I see little reason to divert myself from the laptop and Reaper.

Sayonara for now @McD and other forum posters. This might have been the best part of iOS music, this forum. Thanks @McD for the welcome you gave me when I came on board. I didn’t post much but still read thru it daily. Sorry for the rant folks, it’s not trashing iOS music it’s simply a conclusion to my two year long iOS experiment.

All this said, if Apple would allow users to expand the cpu, instead of buying a totally new system I would certainly return. Forcing their customers to purchase new hardware every 1-3 years is such a wasteful approach. Make the hardware upgradeable, save your customers some money and Apple saves themselves some manufacturing costs etc. it’s a win-win.

I totally agree with you..This is what is what i did.. & still do.. Now my music is making and making an income in the House/Disco scene, so much so, ive now become friends with quite few well known Artists (I wont mention them).. & Remixes.... Working for various Labels now, plus my tracks are being played across various Internet Radio Stations quite frequently... But however, i still use an iPad too.. I will never give up on the old girl...lol.. But sometime use the iPad as a sound source.. I use whatever is needed to do the job... Even if i dont hardly use iPad now as a main music production tool, i will never forget, or give up on her, just like the beloved AudioBus forum.. Im alway looking in the shadows from my friends, who know me here.. (They know who they are, are i've many come & go December 2013)..

realdawei

Logic 10.5 just too delightful...and now I can stop begging iOS developers for features that they never wanted to implement anyway

gusgranite

Subhuman Scum is a great name for a punk band but kinda weirds me out when referring to, you know, people.

Strizbiz

@wim said:

@Strizbiz said:
... I don’t place all the blame on the hardware, I feel like software developers want to take advantage of the new IPad CPU’s and develop apps that NEED the latest hardware to run one or two instances smoothly, as opposed to taking advantage of the hardware to let us run more instances.

That little bit there makes no sense. Developers (other than Apple) get no benefit at all from forcing hardware updates on people. No developer in their right mind purposefully makes apps that run on fewer devices. Yes, there are differing levels of skill among developers, and differing attitudes toward time/investment in optimizing performance, but intentionally? Not a chance.

I've always been convinced that another cause is developers liking to have the latest and greatest hardware. It seems like the faster computers developers have, the faster computers end up being needed to run their software. I used to jokingly advocate for downgrading software engineer's computers during my IT management years. That one didn't make me any friends.

But, even that probably isn't as big a factor with iOS development since the device isn't the one they do development on. Developers can have slow iOS devices and still have the latest in development hardware.

Apple on the other hand has every motivation to make new versions of their operating systems discourage hanging onto older hardware. I'm convinced they do this. I'm also convinced that's partially why they make it impossible to downgrade the OS, and even force the latest on any "restore". I went one OS too far on my old iPad 2, which was perfectly useful but now is practically useless. That pisses me off ... but lesson learned and moving on.

At least with desktops you can usually roll back to a previous OS version and "restore from backup" really means what it seems to. And, as long as you back things up, an app being taken off the market doesn't result in it no longer being available like it does on iOS.

You missed the whole point of what I said, which is, some developers update or make apps to take advantage of more powerful newer IPads and like the pic I’m attaching even recommend newer hardware, I’m on an Air 2 there are just some apps I can barely run because my hardware is older , that’s a fact and sometimes how it goes. I’ve bought a few apps I’ve ended up just having to remove until I get a new IPad , because some of the patches crackle and sputter with only one instance. The pic attached is from Pure Synth Platinum, which installs on my Air 2, but clearly newer hardware is recommended

noob

eeeh.. you know that desktops gets old and obsolete too right..
And if I do have a ghetto ipad, just use less heavy plugs and synths. Drambo runs just fine on my iphone 7

[Deleted User]

It’s Logic and Reason (well, the Reason Rack VST) for me now, though I still use my iOS devices for sketching, as a sound module, or as a control surface.

I’ve bought and tried so many music apps in the last 6 years. Probably too many 98% of them are not getting any use now, and some are already abandoned by their developers. But I have no regrets. It’s been a fun ride.

I still read this forum regularly and keep an eye on any new interesting apps, but for some time now I am not spending money on any new apps. Not because they are not good enough, but because my priorities have shifted and I don’t have enough time even for those apps I already have, and because desktop software is much more expensive and every dollar I save helps (now waiting for that annual NI summer sale )