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Request Mozaic help midi output depend on chord input

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Comments

  • heshes

    @Bellows said:
    A limitation of this setup is that ALL of the rows must be on the same midi (freebass) channel.

    I think this means we're screwed.

  • BellowsBellows

    @hes said:

    @Bellows said:
    A limitation of this setup is that ALL of the rows must be on the same midi (freebass) channel.

    I think this means we're screwed.

    Perhaps not. I see the first two rows are a lower octave. It would be simple to use a keyboard split based on note number and send the first two rows to a different midi channel. 🤔

  • AlfredAlfred

    @Bellows Have you tried the concert free bass mode? It should send midi on channel 7, while the bass/free bass notes are together on midi channel 2. (p.58)

    It looks like the minor 3rd layout has enough unique notes to make something unique. (p.52)

    I understand that to get a true FLY layout Roland has to make new firmware.

  • BellowsBellows

    @Alfred said:
    @Bellows Have you tried the concert free bass mode? It should send midi on channel 7, while the bass/free bass notes are together on midi channel 2. (p.58)

    It looks like the minor 3rd layout has enough unique notes to make something unique. (p.52)

    I understand that to get a true FLY layout Roland has to make new firmware.

    I do not see a concert freebass mode. I have the FR-3X. Are you referring to the FR-4X?

    I think you are correct that the minor 3rd layout is the best for remapping because of so many unique notes.

    My goal is to try some remapping. The FLY system was an example and perhaps too ambitious.

    The problem of duplicate notes in the minor 3rd freebass system does not bother me. In the Stradella system on the bass notes (not chords) this is standard way it is done both on acoustic and electronic accordions. Therefore I am used to it.

    Every freebass system has advantages/disadvantages.
    Thanks so much for your interest and help🙏

  • AlfredAlfred
    edited March 2020

    @Bellows I was referring to the fr3x manual. It is on page 33.
    Also when you choose one of those orchestra sounds, choose the one you like the least and edit it so it is silent, because you want to trigger different notes on the iPad.

    Edit you can set the volume of the orchestra free bass layer to 0, p.46

    At that stage you could use one of the iOS chord apps. I think ChordPolyPad would work quiet well.

  • BellowsBellows

    @Alfred said:
    @Bellows I was referring to the fr3x manual. It is on page 33.

    Thanks Alfred. I will investigate this. I have a gig today so it may not be until tomorrow. I don’t know how this effects midi output.I have been having so much fun with Mozaic that I have neglected my practicing a bit. 🤪

  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    @Bellows said:

    @hes said:

    @Bellows said:
    A limitation of this setup is that ALL of the rows must be on the same midi (freebass) channel.

    I think this means we're screwed.

    Perhaps not. I see the first two rows are a lower octave. It would be simple to use a keyboard split based on note number and send the first two rows to a different midi channel. 🤔

    Hmm. I meant "screwed" in our attempt to closely replicate FLY system. But I guess it depends on how close would satisfy you.

    You could add a few lines to start of current code to help things a bit, I think this might accomplish same same thing as your keyboard split, but with all notes going to same synth:

    >@OnMidiNote

>  note = MIDIByte2

  // 4 new lines below
  if note < 52            
     SendMidiThru
     exit
  endif

>  . . . [ rest of code is the same]
  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    @Alfred said:
    @Bellows Have you tried the concert free bass mode? It should send midi on
    channel 7, while the bass/free bass notes are together on midi channel 2. (p.58)

    I'm wondering what the concert free bass mode does. Does it send the same note on channel 7 as is being sent on channel 2, with option to have it adjusted up or down by octave(s)? If so, I don't see how this enables us to get anywhere new. But maybe I'm missing something; how will this help?

  • BellowsBellows

    Hi Alfred,
    I couldn’t wait til later to try it.
    You are correct. The 1st 2 rows can be set to a different midi channel than the freebass rows.🥳

  • BellowsBellows

    @hes said:

    @Alfred said:
    @Bellows Have you tried the concert free bass mode? It should send midi on
    channel 7, while the bass/free bass notes are together on midi channel 2. (p.58)


    I'm wondering what the concert free bass mode does. Does it send the same note on channel 7 as is being sent on channel 2, with option to have it adjusted up or down by octave(s)? If so, I don't see how this enables us to get anywhere new. But maybe I'm missing something; how will this help?

    It’s actually called orchestral free bass. It’s takes the 1st two rows which are already an octave lower. The idea is to use the bass rows to play orchestral instruments such as bass viol or piano etc. what is good for us is that you can pick what midi channel to use for the orchestral bass. You can use another channel for the 3-6 accordion freebass notes.
    Come to think of it they are already unique because they are in a lower octave.
    Bruce

  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    Does the C3 button at row 2, col 9 now work independently of the C3 button at row 3, col 18? That is, if we're holding down that C3 in row 2, does the C3 in row 3 send a new midi note on command when it's depressed? That would get us back to where we wanted to be.

    Or is there an entirely new bank chart? Does this work with same chart as Free Bass Minor 3rd?

  • AlfredAlfred

    @hes It is a fascinating instrument. Wish I could afford one.

    After studying my DX manual for a year somewhere in the late eighties I finaly understood those translated Japanese manuals...
    So it is not realy as easy as just RTFM.

    Yes in this orchestral free bass mode column one and two still play the regular bass on channel 2. While the other columns play an orchestral sound on midi channel 7.
    The Liberty Bellows fr4x video (part one, second half) shows the different possibilities of the left hand button keys.

    The minor third free bass layout is the default and also applies in the orchestral mode.

  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    @Alfred said:
    Yes in this orchestral free bass mode column one and two still play the regular bass on channel 2. While the other columns play an orchestral sound on midi channel 7.

    Without more, I don't think adding that orchestral mode will help us. It will depend on whether the orchestra/free bass mode includes making rows 1 and 2 independent of rows 3 thru 6, in a way they aren't in the stock Free Bass Minor 3rd setup.

    For example, if pressing the C3 button in row 2 results in that note being sent to both channel 7 and channel 2, I think it's no help. It would help if it went only to channel 7 (and if the C3 in row 3 went only to channel 2).

  • AlfredAlfred
    edited March 2020

    @hes Yes that was the idea. Only column 1 & 2 go to chan 2, the rest goes to chan 7.

    By the way I see you play the EWI. Did you try my controlChain for mozaic?

  • BellowsBellows

    Hi Guys,
    I tested my Roland FR-3X just now. BTW, the FR-4X has more capabilities and it’s manual may not apply.
    Using the Minor 3rd free bass system and setting the bass columns 1&2 to orchestral mode:

    1. Columns 1&2 can be assigned to a different midi channel than columns 3 thru 6. There is NO interaction between them.

    2.In columns 1 & 2 in the case of identical notes. The first note pressed sends a midi on. If it held down the second identical has no effect if pressed and released. If the second note is held down and the first note is released nothing happens. When there are no longer any notes held only then is the midi note off sent.

    1. The same action as described in columns 1 & 3 is also exhibited in columns 3 thru 6.

    The actions above are normal for an acoustic accordion player. Any identical notes press have no effect on the output.

    I don’t see the problem with the action probably because I have not studied the FLY system in detail.

    BTW, E.G. looking at C3 in the middle of the second column, the stretch to the C3 first column 8 rows away is virtually impossible to reach.The reach from the same C3 to the C3 which is 4 rows away is possible.
    Thanks

  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    That sounds good to me. RE: C3, my question has nothing to do with likelihood of using both buttons when playing, just a way to confirm whether or not rows 1-2 are totally independent of rows 3 - 6. We've been burned by midi command behavior for same-notes-on-different-buttons a couple of times, just want to make sure that's not the case with Orchestra/Free Bass mode. Complete independence is great.

    If you put rows 1-2 on different orchestra channel and send only rows 3 - 6 to Mozaic, then I think current version should replicate the FLY system for rows 1 thru 5. Methods to get row 6 working somewhat are back on the table.

    BTW, is convention to say there are 6 rows and 20 columns, or are there 20 rows and 6 columns?

  • BellowsBellows

    Since I play Stradella system I am used to speaking of rows eg the C row which has the C bass, E counter bass, CM, Cm, C7, and C dim. We don’t normally speak of what I call columns. I don’t know how freebass players describe the basse. BTW, I just saw the FLY people do just the opposite. Who Knew?

  • BellowsBellows

    You might try opening the link in Safari (which is what I do), do select all, copy, go to your Mozaic, click the 'New' button at upper left to start blank project, then paste the code in after the @OnLoad . . @END and save new project.

    I have done this several times and still get the:

    OnLoad] Syntax Error: unknown or invalid argument "@ONMIDINOTE"
    [MOZAIC] Script loaded.

    Could you check this is the link I used.

    https://gist.github.com/hsitz/2823309c45bc435350abc47ca9dbcda1/raw/442218e0e909fea9ad12eabab0b580a5f874effd/FB-to-fly-system.txt

    Thanks

  • BellowsBellows

    @Bellows said:

    You might try opening the link in Safari (which is what I do), do select all, copy, go to your Mozaic, click the 'New' button at upper left to start blank project, then paste the code in after the @OnLoad . . @END and save new project.

    I have done this several times and still get the:

    OnLoad] Syntax Error: unknown or invalid argument "@ONMIDINOTE"
    [MOZAIC] Script loaded.

    Could you check this is the link I used.

    https://gist.github.com/hsitz/2823309c45bc435350abc47ca9dbcda1/raw/442218e0e909fea9ad12eabab0b580a5f874effd/FB-to-fly-system.txt

    Thanks

    Should the @OnLoad be there or not?
    Seems to make no difference.
    Thanks

  • heshes
    edited March 2020

    That's the correct link, it should not give those syntax errors. It seems something is amiss in the copy/paste process.

    I would copy the text into a "New" project. When you start a new project it will have these two lines:

    @OnLoad

@END

    Make sure that everything is pasted in below that @END statement. There is no need to delete those two lines, but it should not matter if you do. The link I gave you should give best text to copy. However, you could try going to this page get identical code by either (a) select the code text and copy it, or (b) download the zip file with the text (button to download the zip is above and to right of text). https://gist.github.com/hsitz/2823309c45bc435350abc47ca9dbcda1

    After you copy the text into the new project, click 'Save', give it a name, press to save it, then click 'Load' and load the project name you just gave it.

  • BellowsBellows

    Thanks hes, got it working now. Will test ASAP.

  • BellowsBellows

    Hi Hes,
    I am very tired but am dropping you a line to tell you your script is running very well. The chord buttons are playing two notes each and are acting properly per the script as far as I can see at the moment.
    We are being influenced greatly by corona virus events.
    When I test further tomorrow I will fill you in on details.
    Great job so far.👍🏼🙏❤️🎶

  • BellowsBellows

    Hi Hes,

  • BellowsBellows

    Hes
    Sorry for jumping ahead sideways but I have discovered something that may be helpful. I discovered it by comparing the free bass 5th configuration and comparing to the single note FLY system. Just considering 12 tones in the center of the buttons they have the same repeated notes.For instance look at C5 in column 5. It is identical to C5 in column 6 which is 5 rows higher.This relationship holds true in both systems everywhere.
    There is no need to differentiate between them. Pics to follow when I can.

  • BellowsBellows
    edited March 2020

    Deleted

  • BellowsBellows
    edited March 2020

  • BellowsBellows

    Delete

  • BellowsBellows


    From page 52 FR-3X manual

  • BellowsBellows

    Hi Hes,
    Thank you so much for your hard work. Last night I was able to use the FLY chord system as intended (minus column 6). It was very playable and fun to experiment with. I do not see any way to use column 6 which would be very good to have.
    You are to be congratulated for so very much success.
    The last few posts were concerning the single note system. I think it is interesting and helpful that repeated buttons are the same in free bass 5th and the FLY system. It makes me want to review our starting point for the Chord system to see if this idea can be used there.
    I hope you are well. The Corona pandemic is affecting us greatly. We will be on the move Mon.
    Thanks again,
    Bruce
    PS great fun using what we have made so far 🎶🙏😎

  • BellowsBellows

    @Alfred said:
    @hes It is a fascinating instrument. Wish I could afford one.

    After studying my DX manual for a year somewhere in the late eighties I finaly understood those translated Japanese manuals...
    So it is not realy as easy as just RTFM.

    Hi Alfred,
    I was rereading the posts looking for clues as to how the Mozaic script works and I ran across this post.
    I thought you might find it interesting that I cut apart my DX1 with a hacksaw to attempt to have an acoustic accordion trigger it while mounted on my accordion. It did not really work out . I did however learn enough to mount a Yamaha mini keyboard on the accordion which was marginally successful 👀

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