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Looper that will 'set tempo by 1st loop', PLUS send (not follow) Ableton Link tempo in AUM?

I'm having a great time using GTL for looping, but there's one thing it won't do. I can set tempo with first loop, but only with Ableton Link deactivated. Jack is hopefully going to add the feature I want but it's not there yet. If I reactivate link after setting the tempo, it will revert to whatever it is in AUM.

I want to be able to record a live guitar loop, have that successfully set tempo (easy to do in GTL), but with Link running, while hosted in AUM. This would send the tempo to AUM, and any drum apps etc there would receive that tempo, and play in time. Obviously there's Start/Stop Link things to consider too. I'd want the drums to be heard later, but could achieve that with mutes or some other workaround.

It occurred to me that some other looper or related recording app might be able to do this, if so, I could use that to set up the tempo I want, then use GTL for the rest of my loops.

I did a search about loopy that mentions recording a loop and resetting the tempo to it, but I couldn't find any real detail about whether that would do what i wanted.

thanks!

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Comments

  • @SimonSomeone said:
    I'm having a great time using GTL for looping, but there's one thing it won't do. I can set tempo with first loop, but only with Ableton Link deactivated. Jack is hopefully going to add the feature I want but it's not there yet. If I reactivate link after setting the tempo, it will revert to whatever it is in AUM.

    I want to be able to record a live guitar loop, have that successfully set tempo (easy to do in GTL), but with Link running, while hosted in AUM. This would send the tempo to AUM, and any drum apps etc there would receive that tempo, and play in time. Obviously there's Start/Stop Link things to consider too. I'd want the drums to be heard later, but could achieve that with mutes or some other workaround.

    It occurred to me that some other looper or related recording app might be able to do this, if so, I could use that to set up the tempo I want, then use GTL for the rest of my loops.

    I did a search about loopy that mentions recording a loop and resetting the tempo to it, but I couldn't find any real detail about whether that would do what i wanted.

    thanks!

    @Michael ?

  • Yeah, Loopy does that.

  • Whut? How??

  • wimwim
    edited February 8

    You’d have to be able to set the number of bars the loop will be, hit start, then stop after playing that number of bars. Then Loopy would have to calculate the tempo and set it.

    It can do that? I mean, I know you can set the tempo in loopy and Link will follow it, but automatically based on loop length?

    I would definitely love for that to be correct. B)

    Or ... I’m misunderstanding the OP, which I often do.

  • @wim said:
    You’d have to be able to set the number of bars the loop will be, hit start, then stop after playing that number of bars. Then Loopy would have to calculate the tempo and set it.

    It can do that? I mean, I know you can set the tempo in loopy and Link will follow it, but automatically based on loop length?

    I would definitely love for that to be correct. B)

    Or ... I’m misunderstanding the OP, which I often do.

    You don't have to set the number of bars or tempo. Just record your first loop and Loopy picks the tempo from like 80 to 150 but that fits the duration.

  • @wim said:
    You’d have to be able to set the number of bars the loop will be, hit start, then stop after playing that number of bars. Then Loopy would have to calculate the tempo and set it.

    It can do that? I mean, I know you can set the tempo in loopy and Link will follow it, but automatically based on loop length?

    I would definitely love for that to be correct. B)

    Or ... I’m misunderstanding the OP, which I often do.

    Yep that's what I want... Actually in GTL you don't have to set the bar length first, It'll work out the tempo pretty well if you have obvious transients in the recording. But it's more foolproof to set the bar length. I was doing some slow tempo things, around 55 bpm, but if I didn't set the bar length it would always interpret it as around 110 bpm, which made for some pretty frantic drum patterns over my slow loops...

    But having to set the bar length for the first loop (rather than have a more freeform length) is ok for me.

    I don't know if this was implied in my initial question, but I'm imagining I could hit record, play my guitar instantly (with no count in etc) and record a 1 or 2 bar bar loop, stop recording, and the loop would keep playing, with the tempo set as appropriate, and transmitted to other apps via Ableton Link.

  • Wow reading this methods is helping me understand looping. I’m horrible and my brain breaks down when I try this stuff. Gonna just listen inon you guys ;)

  • @SimonSomeone said:

    @wim said:
    You’d have to be able to set the number of bars the loop will be, hit start, then stop after playing that number of bars. Then Loopy would have to calculate the tempo and set it.

    It can do that? I mean, I know you can set the tempo in loopy and Link will follow it, but automatically based on loop length?

    I would definitely love for that to be correct. B)

    Or ... I’m misunderstanding the OP, which I often do.

    Yep that's what I want... Actually in GTL you don't have to set the bar length first, It'll work out the tempo pretty well if you have obvious transients in the recording. But it's more foolproof to set the bar length. I was doing some slow tempo things, around 55 bpm, but if I didn't set the bar length it would always interpret it as around 110 bpm, which made for some pretty frantic drum patterns over my slow loops...

    But having to set the bar length for the first loop (rather than have a more freeform length) is ok for me.

    I don't know if this was implied in my initial question, but I'm imagining I could hit record, play my guitar instantly (with no count in etc) and record a 1 or 2 bar bar loop, stop recording, and the loop would keep playing, with the tempo set as appropriate, and transmitted to other apps via Ableton Link.

    I just confirmed that Loopy will set the link tempo when used with AB3 and AUM when it finishes recording its first loop. Keep in mind that if you play a really slow or a super fast tempo that Loopy will pick half or twice the tempo. I can’t remember the precise range of tempos that Loopy considers.

    For more about Loopy/AB3/AUM integration: https://wiki.audiob.us/loopy_aum_integration_with_audiobus_3?s[]=loopy

  • Sweet! Yet another thing I had no clue was possible.

  • Quantiloop PRO is the best one for it, because it allows to record in serial mode intending to play A/B parts. Other advantage is undo/redo synced and multi outputs. Loopy HD is close to Quantiloop and has more pleasant UI, but doesn’t have undo/redo and no serial recording. Group The Loop is nice, but unfortunately doesn’t have free recording for first loop to set the tempo.

    I always try to test other options, but every time I’ve come back to Quantiloop pro. If Loopy HD have Serial mode recording, certainly will be the best!

  • @espiegel123 said:

    I just confirmed that Loopy will set the link tempo when used with AB3 and AUM when it finishes recording its first loop. Keep in mind that if you play a really slow or a super fast tempo that Loopy will pick half or twice the tempo. I can’t remember the precise range of tempos that Loopy considers.

    That's a pretty crucial point for me. Is it possible to predefine a bar length in Loopy? Because I sometimes do quite slow tracks, between 50 - 60 bpm, and I'd need that not be interpreted as twice the tempo. That's what was happening in GTL in automatic mode, until I found out I could specify the bar length of the initial loop.

  • @RenattoVaz said:
    Quantiloop PRO is the best one for it, because it allows to record in serial mode intending to play A/B parts. Other advantage is undo/redo synced and multi outputs. Loopy HD is close to Quantiloop and has more pleasant UI, but doesn’t have undo/redo and no serial recording. Group The Loop is nice, but unfortunately doesn’t have free recording for first loop to set the tempo.

    I always try to test other options, but every time I’ve come back to Quantiloop pro. If Loopy HD have Serial mode recording, certainly will be the best!

    This is one of the reasons I primarily use GTL, and haven't got into Loopy before. I always use serial looping, and GTL seems to go the furthest in this. I did have a play around with Quantiloop, I have the free version, but I like to have 3 or 4 parts, not just 2

    Also GTL does have free loops for the first recording, just not when synced via Link... but maybe that's what you meant.

  • @SimonSomeone said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    I just confirmed that Loopy will set the link tempo when used with AB3 and AUM when it finishes recording its first loop. Keep in mind that if you play a really slow or a super fast tempo that Loopy will pick half or twice the tempo. I can’t remember the precise range of tempos that Loopy considers.

    That's a pretty crucial point for me. Is it possible to predefine a bar length in Loopy? Because I sometimes do quite slow tracks, between 50 - 60 bpm, and I'd need that not be interpreted as twice the tempo. That's what was happening in GTL in automatic mode, until I found out I could specify the bar length of the initial loop.

    @michael? I could be wrong, but i think Loopy ignores the number of measures (cycles) setting for the first loop when not using a tempo.

  • i thought that L7 looper did this, i haven’t tried it tho but i’m pretty sure it’s in the features list

  • @SimonSomeone said:

    @RenattoVaz said:
    Quantiloop PRO is the best one for it, because it allows to record in serial mode intending to play A/B parts. Other advantage is undo/redo synced and multi outputs. Loopy HD is close to Quantiloop and has more pleasant UI, but doesn’t have undo/redo and no serial recording. Group The Loop is nice, but unfortunately doesn’t have free recording for first loop to set the tempo.

    I always try to test other options, but every time I’ve come back to Quantiloop pro. If Loopy HD have Serial mode recording, certainly will be the best!

    This is one of the reasons I primarily use GTL, and haven't got into Loopy before. I always use serial looping, and GTL seems to go the furthest in this. I did have a play around with Quantiloop, I have the free version, but I like to have 3 or 4 parts, not just 2

    I believe Quantiloop pro could set each track in serial mode, but I‘m not sure.

    Also GTL does have free loops for the first recording, just not when synced via Link... but maybe that's what you meant.

    Exactly! Sorry to miss it...

  • edited February 8

    @espiegel123 said:

    @SimonSomeone said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    I just confirmed that Loopy will set the link tempo when used with AB3 and AUM when it finishes recording its first loop. Keep in mind that if you play a really slow or a super fast tempo that Loopy will pick half or twice the tempo. I can’t remember the precise range of tempos that Loopy considers.

    That's a pretty crucial point for me. Is it possible to predefine a bar length in Loopy? Because I sometimes do quite slow tracks, between 50 - 60 bpm, and I'd need that not be interpreted as twice the tempo. That's what was happening in GTL in automatic mode, until I found out I could specify the bar length of the initial loop.

    @michael? I could be wrong, but i think Loopy ignores the number of measures (cycles) setting for the first loop when not using a tempo.

    Yeah, that's right - it guesses the tempo, but with upper and lower bounds (80-220 BPM) and may not always get it right if the real tempo is outside those bounds. It ignores the measure count (but that's something that would be useful for it to do...)

    @wim said:
    You’d have to be able to set the number of bars the loop will be, hit start, then stop after playing that number of bars. Then Loopy would have to calculate the tempo and set it.

    It can do that? I mean, I know you can set the tempo in loopy and Link will follow it, but automatically based on loop length?

    I would definitely love for that to be correct. B)

    Or ... I’m misunderstanding the OP, which I often do.

    Yeah, it can set the tempo automatically based on the first loop (and send that out to Link/MIDI receivers).

  • Thanks everyone for filling me in. B)
    I had a lot of fun messing with Loopy that way this evening. All these years of using it and I never realized it could do that. :D

  • Thanks to everyone for the info. It seems loopy won't do what I want, at least not at all tempos. Perhaps I should investigate Quantiloop a Little further.

    @reasOne said:
    i thought that L7 looper did this, i haven’t tried it tho but i’m pretty sure it’s in the features list

    I've looked at the feature list, and haven't seen what I want mentioned specifically. It would be kind of odd to see that listed as it's quite specific.

  • @danielfromcodalabs said:
    @SimonSomeone @reasOne L7 does indeed do this

    It does? I must be doing something wrong.

    It lets you set a number of measures for the first loop before it is recorded AND determines the tempo by the length of the first loop (I.e. doesn't impose a tempo)?

    I must be doing something wrong because for me tapping a number for the number of beats seems to use the bpm and auto stops record. And with the A option for first loop, I don't see how to tell it how many bars that first loop will represent before initiating recording.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    It lets you set a number of measures for the first loop before it is recorded AND determines the tempo by the length of the first loop (I.e. doesn't impose a tempo)?

    I must be doing something wrong because for me tapping a number for the number of beats seems to use the bpm and auto stops record. And with the A option for first loop, I don't see how to tell it how many bars that first loop will represent before initiating recording.

    Yep, you can set the number of measures and it determines the tempo if you record the first loop using A. To set the number of measures, use the MAX LOOP setting at the bottom of the screen. It clamps the tempo to 75 - 150 BPM, so if your recording doesn't fit into that range, it'll increase the MAX LOOP until it fits.

  • @danielfromcodalabs said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    It lets you set a number of measures for the first loop before it is recorded AND determines the tempo by the length of the first loop (I.e. doesn't impose a tempo)?

    I must be doing something wrong because for me tapping a number for the number of beats seems to use the bpm and auto stops record. And with the A option for first loop, I don't see how to tell it how many bars that first loop will represent before initiating recording.

    Yep, you can set the number of measures and it determines the tempo if you record the first loop using A. To set the number of measures, use the MAX LOOP setting at the bottom of the screen. It clamps the tempo to 75 - 150 BPM, so if your recording doesn't fit into that range, it'll increase the MAX LOOP until it fits.

    Thanks for the clarification. The u.i could possibly be made clearer that it sets the number of measures used for the initial tempo. I had the impression that MAX LOOP was a clamp on loop length.

    Btw, the OP is wanting tempi lower than 60 bpm. So, the tempo clamp would be a problem for him (as it is with Loopy).

  • So Loopy restricts you to 80 bpm, L7 to 75 bpm and I just found a Quantiloop video and that goes to 70 bpm

    It's a little frustrating I gotta say. It just means that a few of the songs I do won't work. And it seems like an artificial restriction. After all, these are not particularly slow tempos...

    I guess my best hope is that Jack from GTL will fix the Ableton link issue, or maybe one of the loop developers here will enable slower tempos!

    It's quite fascinating to see with all these wonderful iOS apps that there can still be some little thing that an individual user will find essential to their workflow, and that will be missing from all of them!

  • @SimonSomeone said:
    So Loopy restricts you to 80 bpm, L7 to 75 bpm and I just found a Quantiloop video and that goes to 70 bpm

    It's a little frustrating I gotta say. It just means that a few of the songs I do won't work. And it seems like an artificial restriction. After all, these are not particularly slow tempos...

    I guess my best hope is that Jack from GTL will fix the Ableton link issue, or maybe one of the loop developers here will enable slower tempos!

    It's quite fascinating to see with all these wonderful iOS apps that there can still be some little thing that an individual user will find essential to their workflow, and that will be missing from all of them!

    What kind of other backing are you using? If you’re just recording live takes, it seems like the tempo doesn’t really matter since you can just spread the playing out over two measures for every one according to the tempo. Same for any midi tracks you’re building on the fly or build to use behind your looping. I can see it as a problem if you’re using pre-built midi tracks or accompanying apps that follow tempo though.

    Xequence 2 is a good tool for stretching MIDI clips. You can load a MIDI clip into it, stretch it 2x, then export it.

    Just some thoughts. Feel free to ignore since I have no idea of your setup. B)

  • edited February 8

    @wim said:

    What kind of other backing are you using? If you’re just recording live takes, it seems like the tempo doesn’t really matter since you can just spread the playing out over two measures for every one according to the tempo.

    Yeh, it would be ok if I wasn't mainly using Soft Drummer for rhythm. My slow noir jazzy guitar instrumentals don't sound so good with frantic drumming over them! I appreciate the suggestions though :)

  • @SimonSomeone said:

    @wim said:

    What kind of other backing are you using? If you’re just recording live takes, it seems like the tempo doesn’t really matter since you can just spread the playing out over two measures for every one according to the tempo.

    Yeh, it would be ok if I wasn't mainly using Soft Drummer for rhythm. My slow noir jazzy guitar instrumentals don't sound so good with frantic drumming over them! I appreciate the suggestions though :)

    In softdrummer, there is an option to play half-tempo. Click on the three dots and choose Time /2 and it will scale to play at half-tempo.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @SimonSomeone said:

    @wim said:

    What kind of other backing are you using? If you’re just recording live takes, it seems like the tempo doesn’t really matter since you can just spread the playing out over two measures for every one according to the tempo.

    Yeh, it would be ok if I wasn't mainly using Soft Drummer for rhythm. My slow noir jazzy guitar instrumentals don't sound so good with frantic drumming over them! I appreciate the suggestions though :)

    In softdrummer, there is an option to play half-tempo. Click on the three dots and choose Time /2 and it will scale to play at half-tempo.

    Yes, but in a live situation it results in a few seconds of “invigorating” rhythmic explorations.

  • @SimonSomeone said:
    It's a little frustrating I gotta say. It just means that a few of the songs I do won't work. And it seems like an artificial restriction. After all, these are not particularly slow tempos...

    Interesting! I'll have a think about how to make this work for you; perhaps enable the loop length controls before the tempo is set, and derive the tempo from that length setting. The problem with just extending the range of guessed tempo values down to 60 is that you get ambiguity between 60 BPM and 120 BPM. There's always the potential for ambiguity, of course, but narrowing that range reduces the risk.

  • @Michael said:

    @SimonSomeone said:
    It's a little frustrating I gotta say. It just means that a few of the songs I do won't work. And it seems like an artificial restriction. After all, these are not particularly slow tempos...

    Interesting! I'll have a think about how to make this work for you; perhaps enable the loop length controls before the tempo is set, and derive the tempo from that length setting. The problem with just extending the range of guessed tempo values down to 60 is that you get ambiguity between 60 BPM and 120 BPM. There's always the potential for ambiguity, of course, but narrowing that range reduces the risk.

    Yeh, I guessed that kind of ambiguity could be a problem with tempo detection when I was experimenting with this in GTL. But I asked on their forum and found I could specify a bar length before recording started. After using that setting the resulting tempo would work flawlessly. Before this I had assumed it was just automatic, and the software was interpreting to the best of it's ability. Being able to specify a 1 or 2 bars for this feature opens it up a lot.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    In softdrummer, there is an option to play half-tempo. Click on the three dots and choose Time /2 and it will scale to play at half-tempo.

    Oh that's interesting... I had looked for an option like this but hadn't found it. Thanks!

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