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OT: Carpul Tunnel problems
Carpul tunnel and general hand pain issues are increasing and I'd like to turn it around before I
have to stop doing things with my hands.
Does anyone have a pointers to good advice and therapies?
I use a:
MacBook Pro with that pad for cursor movement/clicks (Assistive technologies?)
iPhone 11 Pro Max which has tricky button requirements (looking into "Voice Over" and Shortcuts)
Casio PX-560 with heavily weighted keys for the "haptic feedback of a Real Piano"
I'm sure there are other sources of these pains. I used to bowl a lot and have fractures from
doing what I always do: Using way too much force for every task that should be controlled and NOT percussive.
I used to play some hand drums too and realized that needed to be "out of bounds" due to the
bone fractures.
I'm considering taking piano lessons that focus on slowing down, playing softer and using better
ergonomics.
I will also entertain some typing lessons for similar benefits.
I heard an interview with Guitarist Robben Ford and he mentioned finding relief with Tai Chi stretching routines and he already had impeccable technique. He just played too much. It turned around with some attention to stretching and mastering his "Chi". That's where he lost me. He's a bit of a California mystic. I'm a California skeptic. I need more evidence.
Comments
Carpal tunnel injuries etc happen mainly because of posture and technique.
Things to consider.
Work and practicing environment.
Positioning of all tools, work surfaces and sitting
arrangements should be as ergonomic as possible.
Alexander technique is good to try, I had to do that when
I had R.S.I injuries when I was a gigging drummer,
knees and wrists went for about six months.
Stretching your median nerves also helps.
I have a few other pointers and tips but
they are dependent upon each person.
I actually had some very good experience with this video. It’s German so let me know if you have any questions. Maybe there are subtitles In english...?!
It helped me when my hands get uncomfortably numb
Beside that. I try to sit as less time before the keyboard (typing). That is like poison for me.
Like any Forum thread this can be of value for more people overtime. So, keep supplying tips and pointers please.
I played drums for 20 years as a student and working pro. Never had a problem BUT I was well trained.
My typing and keyboard technique is entirely self-taught. I learned a million bad techniques but did get a lot of pleasure expressing myself in sound and word. Time to unlearn some bad habits or hang it up.
I hear you.
I was fortunate enough to have lived in a household of dancers.
They corrected my posture for many things
hence the Alexander technique suggestion.
Stretching the median nerves is an especially good one to do
because it's the main group of nerves that lead from the spine
directly to the hands and wrist.
Here's a link with some info.
https://www.coreconcepts.com.sg/article/nerve-stretches/
Believe it or not but I was able avoid CT surgery by using the dietary supplement Bromelain which is a protein digesting enzyme derived from pineapples. It has anti inflammatory properties when taken between meals.
I also had several massages and acupuncture too but the enzyme worked the best for me.
It is so ordered. How many would you suggest taking in this formulation?
Bromelain (Natural Proteolytic Enzyme) 2,400 GDU/g - 500 mg, Natural Proteolytic Enzyme*, 120 Veg Capsules
NOTE: I am responsible for my decision to take this substance and hold you harmless for my personal decisions. I need to try this and appreciate the benefits of non-medical suppliments and will study the precautions and side-effects of this product. I understand you are not giving medical advice. I asked for suggestions.
I had serious carpal tunnel issues for over 20 years, and I tried every holistic remedy in the book - stretching, diet, magnetic bracelets, etc. All those things helped to a minor degree, but I ended up having to get surgery on both wrists back in 2018. I was terrified of surgery, but it was one of the best decisions I made. Solved the problem entirely.
I'm happy to talk with you about this if you have questions.
My biggest complaint are pains in my thumbs and probably NOT carpal tunnel but more of a repetitive stress injury or skeletal fractures from hammering the keys of both types. I like that haptic sensation I got from being a drummer where the groove is so physical. I should consider a 50 Pad drum interface and use sticks! Great idea. I could just buy more toms, cymbals, food pedals and put triggers on everything... but I'd have to build a studio outside to be able to "Type".
You live in a state where CBD products are legal and can be found all over the place. Much to my surprise I’ve been having success with a CBD cream. I’m totally skeptical of things like this but decided to give it a try for neck and shoulder pain from a form of arthritis that I have. When I put it on before I go to bed I wake up with little to no pain, when I don’t I have really uncomfortable soreness and a headache.
My wife has been developing hand soreness from playing the harp. She says it’s helping her too - though it could just be getting better on its own.
I get mine from the local health food store, but you can even get CBD products from GNC stores now.
I was given a CBD cream as a gift. I'll give it a shot. I live with someone that uses CBD for
lung inflammations that we're life threatening and been reversed. Not with CBD alone but with strong coritico-steroids which have terrible side-effects like thinning of the skin, mood disorders and such. But CBD side-effects are proving to be minimal. It's coming to a beer near you! I hope it tasted good and survives alcohol process. I could try a CBD/THC beer that's non-alcoholic. People think California is where all the nuts landed when but the truth is we just moved in like a squatter and reface to leave. The people the government is refusing entry are just seeking the "right of return". (Sorry... it's time to exercise my political chops).
I can see the place where the US stole CA from the Mexican Government from my front door.
“You can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.” - Sarah Palin.
That must be convienient for her now to raise funds.
It's why I got into ipads McD ... too many hours a day slumped over a hot mouse - essentially endless repetitive movement ... like working in a factory .. RSI was starting to seriously hurt and limit what I could do in life - yes outside the studio! And that was using a fancy ergonomic Kingston trackball in the end. Just moved the pain around. Doctors were hovering.
Ipads freed me from all that. I can even use my thumbs. Lots of relaxation, light stretching helped and a nagging alarm clock to tell me to stop and do something else. Hard to get habitual movement or fixed positions on an ipad. I suspect that using an ipad flexibly and deliberatively is actually therapeutic - loosens you up.
So, treatments aside, my tip is to try and do as much work as you can on an ipad or similar - mix it up - change your routines and workflows - and try and spend as little time at a desk engineering and polishing with a mouse . And study how you're holding it - how tightly in particularly - tension is key.
@McD, tai chi is an amazing exercise, not to mention the total annihilation of your enemies in hand to hand combat ( if you practice eight hours a day for ten years, which you still got). Seriously, chi is no mystery. Hold out your hands and listen and feel them. You will feel the buzz of life in your fingertips. That’s chi. Nothing more to it. It circulates thru your body from a place called the tan tien which is located about three inches below your navel and maybe 20% in. Comes out the top of your head, which is why people wear hats.
This would be tremendous for you on every level, calming, focusing, dancing, relaxing, strengthening of non muscular energy and a philosophy that would appeal to you. I learned when I was twenty five. Takes a couple of months to learn a form that is easily done in ten minutes, but can be slowed to Last an hour if you have the patience. You looked up Chen a Man aching in the long ago. Maybe he is knocking on your door again. +1 for the Alexander Technique as well.
Hey McD, yeah I’ve had crippling carpal tunnel syndrome and tendinitis in both hands and wrist as recent as about a year and a half ago. I’ve had it before that on and off for about 12 years. I’m a keyboard player primarily, was classically trained in my youth, but also play guitar. It started for me back in the day when I got a Roland RD-700gx digital piano and attempted Chopin’s Revolutionary Etude .. in a matter of about a week I had crippling pain in both hands and had to quit. My most recent bout is when I got a Shred Neck to rebuild my guitar callouses .. pain got so bad I could barely do mundane task like teeth brushing. My advice is Dr. John Sarno .. go read his book healing back pain .. then his other books. Also go to the TMS Wiki and search Carpal Tunnel and Tendonitis. Below is the link for a free audio version read on YouTube. Think about this man .. why were people that spent their careers typing away on old manual typewriters which has a much harder key action not getting hand issues back in the day .. yet now carpal tunnel is an international epidemic from people typing away on much lighter keyboards, and studio musicians here in Los Angeles were playing day in and day out on instruments like high action hollow body guitars and Steinway concert grands with no hand issues? Go read the book man 👍 I’ve been pain free ever since I did. BTW I’m almost 59.
Delete
Duplicate .. Delete (not much sleep last night 😒)
Dr. Sarno +++1!
Try two teaspoons of chia seeds in water every day for two weeks, then twice a week after that.
For my arthritis, I’ve been using cbd and trying to eat better (but often failing...) and both the cbd cream and oil help. I use a brand called theramu that is excellent.
Also, i recently just went to a gonstead chiropractor and in the past 2 weeks i would say i have 95% less pain- i had a spot in my lower back, and at c5 that were causing all sorts of havoc, including a numb thimb and pointer finger on my right hand. Also spot on my back by my left shoulder blade that was causing breathing and lifting to hurt a lot. All gone with 2 visits, I was amazed. I had been watching some of the chiropractors on YouTube and the gonstead approach really appealed to me, so I was able to find one here in NJ (he’s not on YouTube). In played my first pain free bass gigs in more years than I can remember. I’m even able to play a full scale bass for short periods of time now, although I still prefer short scale. But my issues got so bad a few years ago that a 20” scale kala u bass was my main gigging instrument for a while.
The point of all that? Make sure it is actually carpal tunnel before treating it as such so that whatever you are doing is actually beneficial. For what I know about inflammation in general (i have psoriatic arthritis now and had ulcerative colitis requiring surgeey 25 years ago), rest, ice, and good diet are all very helpful.
Can you afford to get to physical therapy? I would HIGHLY recommend that. Even one or two sessions could get you on a better path and provide you with stretching and exercises that may at least help reduce the discomfort or pain.
Generally speaking - very generally - taking regular, scheduled breaks and stretching and relaxing the tendons is key.
I wouldn't follow general advice / videos etc, though, without seeing a doctor or physical therapist so they can accurately diagnose the problem(s) and problem area(s) so you know how to cope and treat.
this book saved my life
https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1608824942/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1OEC8K7HKE2VN&keywords=trigger+point+therapy+workbook+by+clair+davies&qid=1580090256&s=books&sprefix=trigger+point+,stripbooks,324&sr=1-2
What I was certain was carpal tunnel turned out to be Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. I was contemplating wrist surgery and I'm very glad I didn't go through with it, since the problem wasn't even in my wrists, but my neck. Combination of nerve glide stretches and trigger point therapy in my neck keeps the pain at nearly zero these days.
If, like me, the problem is exacerbated by using a laptop, it's likely you're experiencing thoracic outlet syndrome. Laptops force your body into a forward head posture, so if you can, raise the screen up to eye level and use an external keyboard so your forearms are parallel to the floor, in a comfortable chair. Ergonomics are huge if you're using a computer for long durations.
I used to get numbness in my wrists and hands, and extreme nerve pain, to the point that I couldn't play music or use a computer, and even turning a doorknob or holding a coffee cup caused pain. now things are good.
I also recommend taking circumin (turmeric concentrate), which helps with inflammation.
Nice inexpensive remedy.
Tumeric. We have that. Tumor Rick, right. Or Toomerrick?
tumor, ick!
fwiw, I'm a california skeptic as well, but tai chi is great. ignore the chi, but I prefer it to yoga for the stretching benefits. looks goofy as hell, but it feels great.
I take one or two bromelain caps on an empty stomach when I first wake up. If you take bromelain with food it works as a digestive enzyme so for anti inflammatory effects take without food.
I think mine also had elements of thoracic outlet syndrome and ulnar nerve (elbow) entrapment. Trigger point therapy helped me to find trigger spots on my forearms and shoulders which helped release some of the trapped nerves. Stretching scalene muscles in the neck and doing shoulder rolls helped a lot too. Good luck!
yep, scalenes were my main issue. feels scary to massage them at first, but once you start to feel the results it is a huge relief.
Thanks for the tip on bromelain, good to know!
I’ve heard good things about turmeric too but once I found relief with bromelain, I stopped trying other remedies. I also used bromelain mixed with quercetin (flavonoid) with great results.
It looks like physical meditation to me. I've seen groups elderly chinese doing it in a group
and then I look around in my community and realize most here will not grow old with much
flexibility. It makes me take a Big Gulp of air.
I believe we were taking some tumeric in a clear capsule a while back.
@LinearLineman recommended i add Vitamin D a few weeks back and that's helped
elevate my mood, sleep patterns and irritability. All these things are interrelated.
I've stopped caffeine and alcohol too.
Our gym has a class called BODYBALANCE that combines elements of both so there’s clearly a demand for that sort of thing.
I prefer yoga as I get a pretty decent workout from the muscle shortening (contraction) that supports the deep stretches. Recently woke up with wicked DOMS in my legs thinking I’d overdone it in the gym but then released I hardly ever train my legs. It was all from the yoga session 😯
Another thing to counterpose piano player’s posture is bench dumbbell rows. Basically lay face down on the bench with a dumbbell in each hand and lift them by squeezing your shoulder blades together. Highly recommended!
Great vid btw.