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App to map midi control values

I've got a Blofeld which I love, but hate its lack of knobs.
I have the PatchBase controller for it on the iPad but I'm a hands-on physical knobs type of person when it comes to my synths.
I'm wondering if its feasible to use one of my other hardware synths with lots of knobs to control the Blofeld. The midi control values coming out of the other synth aren't necessarily going to correspond to what the Blofeld uses, so I'm wondering if there's some app I can use to set up a mapping between them.
Then I can use the other synth's nobs to twiddle things like the envelopes, filters and lfos etc. and use PatchBase for things like editing the modulation matrix.
Anybody know of an app that would be suitable for this?

Comments

  • The best tool for that has to be Mozaic with a basic script that someone will write upon request.
    It will be easy once you choose your hardware.

    It could also be easy if you use Midi Spy and show what CC's are produced by each knob.

    The other tools also can do this but using 1 instance per knob. Mozaic can implement 16 knobs and
    maybe a lot more with pads to multiply the number of knobs being defined.

    I just bought an Akai Professional MPK Mini MKII | 25 Key Portable USB MIDI Keyboard With 8 Backlit Performance Ready Pads, 8 Assignable Q Link Knobs & A 4 Way Thumbstick. I intend to learn todo this type of hardware to IOS Synth control scripting and teach others how to do it too. It's going to be challenging but not impossible to learn if you can type on IOS.

  • wimwim
    edited January 2020

    I’m comfortable with scripting but wouldn’t bother with Mozaic with this. The above two suggestions are graphically configurable, would easily do the job, and don’t require modifying code.

    MFX convert doesn’t even require advance knowledge if the values coming out of the controller, just what you want them to be coming out the other side. Just hit learn, turn a knob, then set the conversion on the output. Rinse and repeat.

  • McDMcD
    edited January 2020

    @wim said:
    I’m comfortable with scripting but wouldn’t bother with Mozaic with this. The above two suggestions are graphically configurable, would easily do the job, and don’t require modifying code.

    And thus speaks the author of the most loved Mozaic app of all time. He should know.
    Mozaic is like a Swiss Army knife with all the gadgets when you only need a nail file.
    Mozaic is $8 and the nail file is only $3. Mozaic requires loading the nail file attachment the you can order online for free. But there are 100 free attachments. Still, $5 is worth saving and downloading files is really hard. Like using the App Store.

    But for the cost of Mozaic your can get hundreds (if not thousands) of free scripts at no cost over the next few years. Scripts fro @brambos, @_ki, @burns_audio and more.

    The eclectic nature of Mozaic scripts is like the wild west of DOS MOD Players... lots of free stuff to install and play with.

  • https://apps.apple.com/us/app/midi-mod/id1465677026

    Midi Mod is universal. It might already have mapping for Waldorf stuff. If not, ask the developer. I forgot his user name. He can easily add new devices to the app database.

  • edited January 2020

    @animalelder said:
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/midi-mod/id1465677026

    Midi Mod is universal. It might already have mapping for Waldorf stuff. If not, ask the developer. I forgot his user name. He can easily add new devices to the app database.

    Waldorf Blofeld parameters are already included in Midi-Mod.

    Here is the list of already included devices
    https://eokuwwy.blogspot.com/2019/05/device-parameter-mapping-list.html?m=1

  • I took a quick look at midi-mod, it looks like it would be good itself as a touch controller for a synth, but where does using the Peak as the controller for Blofeld fit in with using Midi-mod? There's lots of buttons for controlling the lfo, envelopes etc. of the destination, but I don't get how that in itself would be controlled by the Peak. Maybe I need to go and watch more vidoes of it.

  • edited January 2020

    @mungbeans said:
    I've got a Blofeld which I love, but hate its lack of knobs.
    I have the PatchBase controller for it on the iPad but I'm a hands-on physical knobs type of person when it comes to my synths.
    I'm wondering if its feasible to use one of my other hardware synths with lots of knobs to control the Blofeld. The midi control values coming out of the other synth aren't necessarily going to correspond to what the Blofeld uses, so I'm wondering if there's some app I can use to set up a mapping between them.
    Then I can use the other synth's nobs to twiddle things like the envelopes, filters and lfos etc. and use PatchBase for things like editing the modulation matrix.
    Anybody know of an app that would be suitable for this?

    I have a blofeld and a hardware synth with lots of knobs but what's it worth if you can only control 30% of the synth engine?

    The best blofeld editor I've ever seen was PatchMorpher for iPad.

  • edited January 2020

    I have a blofeld and a hardware synth with lots of knobs but what's it worth if you can only control 30% of the synth engine?

    I wouldn't bother with another hardware synth as a controller, such as a Virus for example, however I think with a Peak I will be able to control virtually most of what I want that I touch frequently during sound design. Its very knobby and I've been thinking about the Peak's knobs and slider layouts and how they could map to the Blofeld, the two LFO sections and two envelopes will map directly, hopefully the 3rd envelope will too, the Peak only has one filter but there's loads of spare knobs in its filter section to assign to the blofeld's filter 2 cutoff and resonance. The Peak has three oscillators and tons of knobs, I will be able to make extra use of some of those knobs to for example control the FM amount of the oscillators. I think I will be able to control a very lot from the Peak.

    I'm not expecting to be able to control the mod matrix nor modifies via the Peak, however I have the Blofeld template for the Patch Base app. And if I can control the things I modify frequently directly via the Peak and things like the Mod maxtrix via the Patch Base app it should make a good combination.
    The Peak also has some endless rotaries which will come in useful for controlling something on the Blofeld.
    The Peak also transmits midi event on all of its button presses (unlike for example the TI), I don't know yet if these will be able to be mapped so that the Peak's LFO select button can map to the Blofeld LFO select for example, maybe not, but I'm going to investigate and try. If not the there are enough total knobs and sliders on the Peak to be able to control very much in the Blofeld, which bits can't can be picked up by Patch Base sitting on an iPad above my Peak.
    The arp knob, the glide knob, etc. things I hardly ever touch, they can all be mapped to something on the Blofeld such as FM amounts.

    The Patch Base app can select the oscillator wave/sample, if it can then I'm hoping I'll be able to set that up in the Peak too. That's where Mozaic perhaps might come in as an option for setting all this up. Mozaic looks like it'll offer the most flexibility for precise configuration.

  • edited January 2020

    I wouldn't bother with another hardware synth, such as a Virus or Deepmind or others, however I think with a Peak I will be able to control virtually most of what I want. Its very knobby and I've been thinking about the Peak's knobs and slider layouts and how they could map to the Blofeld, the two LFO sections and two envelopes will map directly, hopefully the 3rd envelope will too, the Peak only has one filter but there's loads of spare knobs in its filter section to assign to the blofeld's filter 2 cutoff and resonance. The Peak has three oscillators and tons of knobs, I will be able to make use of some of those oscialltor knobs to for example control the FM amount of the Blofeld's oscillators.
    The Peak also has some endless rotaries which will come in useful for controlling something on the Blofeld.
    The Peak also transmits midi event on all of its button presses (unlike for example the TI), I don't know yet if these will be able to be mapped to be able to select something on the Blofeld, maybe not, but I'm going to investigate and try. If not the there are enough total knobs and sliders on the Peak to be able to control very much in the Blofeld, which bits can't can be picked up by Patch Base sitting on an iPad above my Peak.
    Things like the Peak's effects knobs, well why not map them to something more useful on the Blofeld and add Blofeld effects later, or given its crap reverb, add them externally and instead use the Peak's effects knobs to control something else.
    I think I will be able to control a very lot from the Peak.

    I'm not expecting to be able to control the mod matrix nor modifies via the Peak, however I have the Blofeld template for the Patch Base app. And if I can control the things I modify frequently directly via the Peak and things like the Mod maxtrix via the Patch Base app it should make a good combination.

    The Patch Base app can select the oscillator wave/sample, if it can then I'm hoping I'll be able to set that up in the Peak too. That's where Mozaic perhaps might come in as an option for setting all this up, rather than a ready made mapping app. I'm just investigating what's currently out there in this area.

    Where do you get a figure of 30% from? I think it could be much higher.

  • Buy a 2nd hand X-Station.

    Tons of knobs & sliders, layout out like a synth and you can edit all of them onboard the X-station without using a PC. Any control can be set to send CC or NRPN or sysex.

    Crazy capability. :)

    Not exactly what you asked for but definitely worth considering.

  • edited January 2020

    @SpookyZoo said:
    Buy a 2nd hand X-Station.

    Tons of knobs & sliders, layout out like a synth and you can edit all of them onboard the X-station without using a PC. Any control can be set to send CC or NRPN or sysex.

    Crazy capability. :)

    Not exactly what you asked for but definitely worth considering.

    Thanks for the suggestions. I've investigated many many midi controllers previously, specifically with the Blofeld in mind, and used to have one, I also had a Faderfox at one point, actually however the Peak has more knobs and sliders that many dedicated midi controllers and from my experiments with it so far (using midi learn on some soft synths) will I think make a fantastic controller.

  • edited January 2020

    The best blofeld editor I've ever seen was PatchMorpher for iPad.

    Thanks I'll check this out for reference, but I'm not looking for a software controller as I'm all physical hands-on these days, so looking to turn my Peak into a midi controller.

    EDIT: Patch Morpher hasn't been updated for the latest iOS.

  • @mungbeans said:

    @SpookyZoo said:
    Buy a 2nd hand X-Station.

    Tons of knobs & sliders, layout out like a synth and you can edit all of them onboard the X-station without using a PC. Any control can be set to send CC or NRPN or sysex.

    Crazy capability. :)

    Not exactly what you asked for but definitely worth considering.

    Thanks for the suggestions. I've investigated many many midi controllers previously, specifically with the Blofeld in mind, and used to have one, I also had a Faderfox at one point, actually however the Peak has more knobs and sliders that many dedicated midi controllers and from my experiments with it so far (using midi learn on some soft synths) will I think make a fantastic controller.

    Good stuff. I have a Peak too (love it).

    I actually went the other way and designed a layout using MidiDesigner & MidiFire to control it. For 2 reasons mainly... 1) To be able to press one button and get all the parameter states for the current patch on one big page and 2) be able to view all 20 Matrix routings on one page too. :)

  • @mungbeans said:
    I've got a Blofeld which I love, but hate its lack of knobs.
    I have the PatchBase controller for it on the iPad but I'm a hands-on physical knobs type of person when it comes to my synths.
    I'm wondering if its feasible to use one of my other hardware synths with lots of knobs to control the Blofeld. The midi control values coming out of the other synth aren't necessarily going to correspond to what the Blofeld uses, so I'm wondering if there's some app I can use to set up a mapping between them.
    Then I can use the other synth's nobs to twiddle things like the envelopes, filters and lfos etc. and use PatchBase for things like editing the modulation matrix.
    Anybody know of an app that would be suitable for this?

    Midi Design Pro
    Lemur
    Parrot
    One more shit...4 letters...I will check device

  • @mungbeans said:

    The best blofeld editor I've ever seen was PatchMorpher for iPad.

    Thanks I'll check this out for reference, but I'm not looking for a software controller as I'm all physical hands-on these days, so looking to turn my Peak into a midi controller.

    EDIT: Patch Morpher hasn't been updated for the latest iOS.

    True. One of the reasons why I'll keep my iPad2.

    If you turn your Peak into a blofeld controller, please come back and tell us about your experiences. I used this panel:

    but it was lacking too many control elements necessary for serious sound design with the blofeld and additionally, the blofeld does not support relative controllers so in consequence you either have to build translation software that is able to load your current preset and translate the relative control values to absolute values that start from the current value positions, or you accept that turning knobs can make the destination values jump to different positions as soon as you turn them.

  • edited January 2020

    Good stuff. I have a Peak too (love it).

    I actually went the other way and designed a layout using MidiDesigner & MidiFire to control it. For 2 reasons mainly... 1) To be able to press one button and get all the parameter states for the current patch on one big page and 2) be able to view all 20 Matrix routings on one page too. :)

    That looks awesome. Based on what you know about the Peak's midi implementation, do you think clicking buttons on the Peak such as the Osc Wave selection, filter shape, lfo type are going to be capable of mapping to selecting some other setting on another synth?

  • @mungbeans said:

    Good stuff. I have a Peak too (love it).

    I actually went the other way and designed a layout using MidiDesigner & MidiFire to control it. For 2 reasons mainly... 1) To be able to press one button and get all the parameter states for the current patch on one big page and 2) be able to view all 20 Matrix routings on one page too. :)

    That looks awesome. Based on what you know about the Peak's midi implementation, do you think clicking buttons on the Peak such as the Osc Wave selection, filter shape, lfo type are going to be capable of mapping to selecting some other setting on another synth?

    I recommend getting a midi monitor to see for yourself what comes out of the Peak. I use the midi monitor from MIDI Tools by Audioveek. There's a lot of useful stuff in that suite and it's well worth having.

  • edited January 2020

    @mungbeans said:

    Good stuff. I have a Peak too (love it).

    I actually went the other way and designed a layout using MidiDesigner & MidiFire to control it. For 2 reasons mainly... 1) To be able to press one button and get all the parameter states for the current patch on one big page and 2) be able to view all 20 Matrix routings on one page too. :)

    That looks awesome. Based on what you know about the Peak's midi implementation, do you think clicking buttons on the Peak such as the Osc Wave selection, filter shape, lfo type are going to be capable of mapping to selecting some other setting on another synth?

    Not really. They send out as NRPN (so CCs 98/99/06) but only with single digit values. For example the 5 states of the OSC waveform are 0-4. Also, these NRPN values are fixed and highly unlikely to tally with another hardware synth.

    It's why I recommend the X-Station so often as a midi controller. You can set the min and max for each control, so a slider could move between just 52-76 if you wanted. Also, the buttons on the X-station can be assigned a 'step value' with each press. So if you had a 5 way parameter you need to control that had a min of zero and high of 127, you could assign the step value as 32. (0/32/64/96/127). Whereas the Peak values sent are fixed and wouldn't be able to cover this example.

    Here's a quick screengrab of what the Peak sends out....

  • edited January 2020

    I'm sure you probably have the Peak manual, but here is the relevant Midi Info for all the controls....

    ..

    ..

    ..

  • edited January 2020

    Thanks for the info. I've implemented a Mozaic script to use my Virus TI as a controller for the Blofeld as the midi out from that is simple and straightforward. I'm exceedingly pleased with the results - its like I've got a brand new complex deep Wavetable synth (I disliked menu diving on the Blofeld so much I've hardly used it at all despite loving its sound and having it for ages). I'm tweaking parameters on the Blofeld I never used to in the past because there was too much hassle menu diving to reach them, now I can just twist a knob on the Virus easy as peasy.

    Now based on that experience I'm planning to switch to the Peak and use that as a controller instead of the Virus - after monitoring what midi the Peak is outputting I think its going to be far more usful as a controller for the Blofeld as virtually everything you touch generates midi output - even including stuff you change while in a menu, which is awesome. (Unlike the Blofeld, I find menu diving on the Peak very quick and simple and not a hassle at all).

    I was thinking using the animator buttons as shift buttons will be very useful - for example if the animator is off the filter knobs will control Blofeld filter 1, if the animator is on they will control Blofeld filter 2.
    The biggest problem is the Peak only has 4 LFO shapes versus Blofeld's 6 and only 6 filter types versus Blofeld's 11 - but this is where the animator as shift button could come into play again - LP/24 on the Peak will of course map to LP/24 on the Blofeld, Animator/LP/24 can map to the PPG filter on the Blofeld and so on.
    Also the Peak has so many knobs and buttons for each oscillator I'll be able to assign all sorts of Blofeld stuff to them such as FM amount etc. and the fact they both have 3 oscialltors is a perfect match for being able to control virutally everything on the Blofeld via the Peak.

    I guess it took about 3 or 4 hours to write and debug the Mozaic script for the Virus, I expect the Peak script will take much longer, but should be worth it in the longrun.

  • @mungbeans said:
    Thanks for the info. I've implemented a Mozaic script to use my Virus TI as a controller for the Blofeld as the midi out from that is simple and straightforward. I'm exceedingly pleased with the results - its like I've got a brand new complex deep Wavetable synth (I disliked menu diving on the Blofeld so much I've hardly used it at all despite loving its sound and having it for ages). I'm tweaking parameters on the Blofeld I never used to in the past because there was too much hassle menu diving to reach them, now I can just twist a knob on the Virus easy as peasy.

    Now based on that experience I'm planning to switch to the Peak and use that as a controller instead of the Virus - after monitoring what midi the Peak is outputting when I think its going to be far more usful as a controller for the Blofeld as virtually everything you tough generates midi output - even including stuff you change while in a menu, which is awesome. (Unlike the Blofeld, I find menu diving on the Peak very quick and simple and not a hassle at all).

    I was thinking using the animator buttons as shift buttons will be very useful - for example if the animator is off the filter knobs will control Blofeld filter 1, if the animator is on they will control Blofeld filter 2.
    The biggest problem is the Peak only has 4 LFO shapes versus Blofeld's 6 and only 6 filter types versus Blofeld's 11 - but this is where the animator as shift button could come into play again - LP/24 on the Peak will of course map to LP/24 on the Blofeld, Animator/LP/24 can map to the PPG filter on the Blofeld and so on.
    Also the Peak has so many knobs and buttons for each oscillator I'll be able to assign all sorts of Blofeld stuff to them such as FM amount etc. and the fact they both have 3 oscialltors is a perfect match for being able to control virutally everything on the Blofeld via the Peak.

    I guess it took about 3 or 4 hours to write and debug the Mozaic script for the Virus, I expect the Peak script will take much longer, but should be worth it in the longrun.

    Sounds great!

    Have you uploaded your Mozaic script to PatchStorage? Would be great to see what you did.

  • edited January 2020

    @SpookyZoo said:
    Sounds great!

    Have you uploaded your Mozaic script to PatchStorage? Would be great to see what you did.

    Not yet but its very simple and hacky and probably nothing very interesting for people as its just straightforward cc to cc mappings (and a few conversions from Virus LFO shapes/Filter shapes to Blofeld LFO shapes/filter shapes). The peak script will undoubtedly be more complex and potentially interesting for people to analyse and use if they have a Peak (and even if they don't have a Blofeld, it would be applicable with minor midification to use another synth), so I'll make sure to upload that.

  • wimwim
    edited January 2020

    Mozaic has LFOs available too. You Could set up a controls on the Peak to control Mozaic LFOs too.

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