Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

ISymphonic sounds radically change halfway down keyboard

Is there some musical reason that some of te sounds ie trombones completely change when you play in the bottom half of the octaves? The trombones for example become very strident as though suddenly blown with ten times more attack when you play one note down from the top half which is much softer. It makes the sounds unusable and I’d been meaning to ask for a while. You can’t play anything unless sticking to top notes or bottom as your sound suddenly and dramatically changes and te whole thing is a complete mess. Chords are like they’re played with two different patches.

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Comments

  • Could you give a patch example incl. soundset? The browser is an unholy mess.

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Could you give a patch example incl. soundset? The browser is an unholy mess.

    Yeah, trombone section 1 in te basic patch that comes with it I think. The change jump occurs between middle e and f (octave 4). Try playing a chord sequence that overlaps it sounds ridiculous and a medlody is even worse.

    Ps. I replied to your post in the other thread btw which was entirely fair, was just having a bad day and let exasperation get the better of me.

  • @wingwizard said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Could you give a patch example incl. soundset? The browser is an unholy mess.

    Yeah, trombone section 1 in te basic patch that comes with it I think. The change jump occurs between middle e and f (octave 4). Try playing a chord sequence that overlaps it sounds ridiculous and a medlody is even worse.

    Ps. I replied to your post in the other thread btw which was entirely fair, was just having a bad day and let exasperation get the better of me.

    It’s weird. I hear what you’re hearing but the effect goes away if I play single notes a bit more softly. Sounds like the samples are okay but the velocity curves are messed up.

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Could you give a patch example incl. soundset? The browser is an unholy mess.

    Yeah, trombone section 1 in te basic patch that comes with it I think. The change jump occurs between middle e and f (octave 4). Try playing a chord sequence that overlaps it sounds ridiculous and a medlody is even worse.

    Ps. I replied to your post in the other thread btw which was entirely fair, was just having a bad day and let exasperation get the better of me.

    It’s weird. I hear what you’re hearing but the effect goes away if I play single notes a bit more softly. Sounds like the samples are okay but the velocity curves are messed up.

    I’ll have to ch3ck this out, as I was jus5 testing with the onscreen keyboard, it’s the case with a few other patches at least.

  • @Philandering_Bastard said:

    @wingwizard said:

    @Philandering_Bastard said:
    Could you give a patch example incl. soundset? The browser is an unholy mess.

    Yeah, trombone section 1 in te basic patch that comes with it I think. The change jump occurs between middle e and f (octave 4). Try playing a chord sequence that overlaps it sounds ridiculous and a medlody is even worse.

    Ps. I replied to your post in the other thread btw which was entirely fair, was just having a bad day and let exasperation get the better of me.

    It’s weird. I hear what you’re hearing but the effect goes away if I play single notes a bit more softly. Sounds like the samples are okay but the velocity curves are messed up.

    Yes, it is true. Also with their piano (keys) IAP and some others. It’s a shame, because their sounds are very good. Better IMHO then the one in Sampletank IAP.

  • Can’t this easily be fixed with Mozaic?

  • McDMcD
    edited January 12

    @mjcouche said:
    Can’t this easily be fixed with Mozaic?

    Not really easy but potentially trivial with some testing for the options.

    PROBLEM:

    1. You input a MIDI Note On from a controller it has a velocity that triggers a precise sample.
    2. That Note/velocity combo hits iSymphonic and plays a sample that doesn't match it's neighbor.

    OPTIONS:

    If you modify the Velocity in Mozaic between 1 and 2 then the sample may sound better but the volume doesn't match well with it's neighbor. So, it might not be a fix but a new complaint.

    Mapping all the volumes to single softer level might expose a better sounding trombone
    to your needs and that's trivial. But you loose dynamics which might be OK for you.

    There's probably a Mozaic script and a dozen apps that convert MIDI Velocities to a fixed
    level.

    Do you own any AUv3 MIDI FX apps?

    You won't have a lot of dynamics but playing with various velocity curves might also allow more latitude using MIDI Compression or Limiting of the Velocity ranges.

    OUT OF THE BOX APPROACH: Use splits and layering of 2 trombone apps and velocity blending to keep the best parts of iSymphonic and patch the bad parts with BS-16i or some other instrument-based sampler. There are many to choose from.

    Split and velocity blending solutions are also available as MIDI FX.

    NOTE: Asking Crudebytes to update the samples doesn't seem to work.
    Good sample sets get more attention to details. This trombone is a bad one
    and not assembled with enough care. It was probably automated and no one caught the bug or samples were defective and deleted and a loud sample was used to cover the gap in the velocity map. If the audio file was exposed we could hack the audio with an editor. But who exposes their products samples? Still, many lovely instruments in iSymphonic along with a lot of frustrations. It's a mixed bag of joy and regret. Mostly joy for me. I can patch the audio using SynthJacker and AudioLayer but it takes a lot of time.

  • edited January 12

    Unfortunate, but mapping all values to a level was my initial thought...then maybe some way to map velocities/volumes back according to needs....idk. May not be ideal.

    Or sample the good notes again in something like thumbjam which extrapolates the other notes from the sampled note. I’m not into sampling/ don’t have the others so can’t comment on those.

  • @mjcouche said:
    Unfortunate, but mapping all values to a level was my initial thought...then maybe some way to map velocities/volumes back according to needs....idk. May not be ideal.

    How about this.

    Maybe running 2 iSymphonic instances with the same trombone loaded and doing a MIDI
    split between them with compression and velocity curves would help. Only the notes from E4 down need to have this compromised compressed dynamics. The notes above are still useful without any changes. Then the compressed side of the split could be balanced/leveled in the AUM Mixer UI between the 2 instances. As usual bury all defects with Reverb on the Master channel.

    There's a split FX app that offers extra attention to dynamic curves. Of course, 2 instances of
    iSymphonic is a recipe for DAW crashes of the iSymphonic AUv3. Can we run an IAA instance and 1 AUv3 instance in AUM? Just a thought. Never tried.

    @_ki or @wim could code this in a short amount of time but it's such a corner case it's really unfair to ask. They both have a surplus of application needs, ideas and requests for help.
    But some testing with the product ready MIDI FX app I'm think of would be worth some time.

    It could be called a "Multi-Band MIDI Compressor/Limiter" or the "Dynamix Duo". Very easy in StreamByter too and @Nic might take it on to get a little love from the Forum. We do love our developer friends right?

    I think the MIDI FX app comes from the Atom App developer. Anyone remember?

  • edited January 13

    It’s so so poor that the app was released in this state and not fixed. I don’t normally get into comments on devs but this is really appalling, looking at te tortuous efforts being suggested to workaround what is pure laziness and negl9gence in te first place. It’s just annoyed me, It’s meant to do one thing, which it’s not even very good at, and it bungled that. Not much of an incentive to pay the huge amount extra patches cost. I think ios is desperately in need of orchestral stuff - I know crudebyte are popular but I think iSymphonic rep really came via te dearth f other options - I was hugely disappointed at the artificial sounding samples, it’s just that when the alternative is sampletank, it ends up sounding better. I’ve found their pianos generally poor fwiw. Everything sounds harsh brittle and synthetic. The only one I like is the old upright in colossus. I feel given the mess they’ve allowed isymphonic to persist in, none of it is worth the effort. I’d rather build some patches from swam layers when that’s out.

  • McDMcD
    edited January 13

    Many of the BeatHawk instruments are sampled with great care.

    Pure Platinum Synth ships with a nice array of sampled instruments too.

    Nothing sounds as good as the iSymphonic samples to my ear. That trombone slipped
    past QA. 95% of them are excellently crafted. My more pressing issue with them is
    they lack of a few specific sounds I needed but SF2 and SFZ sets fill in the missing pieces.

    What I want to do is sample these apps into NS2 instruments and run them in NS2 without the AUv3 penalty on parallel instances of a sampler. It's a lot of work but likely the best
    approach to sampled instruments in a DAW. #2 is the Sampler inside Auria Pro called Lyra.
    It can import SFZ'es and SF2's. Still, somewhat track limited compared to the 20-30 tracks people have demonstrated with NS2. Some think the NS2 sound is thin but 20-30 tracks?
    I'll trade a little thinness to skip doing freezes on every other take. I'd like to stay in MIDI and
    just print audio at the final mix event.

    Anger at apps over some small detail misses the larger picture of the products real value.
    When that small detail prevents you from realizing your vision it's understandable... but
    find workarounds and keep creating anyway. Persist.

    I know a guy that got the Miroslav Orchestra IAP for Sample Tank and thought the Oboe was so bad he refunded the entire orchestra and just went without. He eventually found BeatHawk and the Fretless apps. But doesn't have anything close to a real orchestral set. He love Sensual Sax while I can't
    handle it's constant renderings of fake sax. Sax is hard to get right.

  • edited January 13

    It’s not a small detail, it makes patches completely unusable and much worse is inexcusable on the devs part in this case. Dismissing it as such Is illogical and does a disservice to paying users. The products real value should not be something you have to hunt for, find via labyrinthine workarounds, and which is much less than the app is advertised as doing. I’m annoyed in this case because it’s very very poor on te devs part, given this is an orchestral samples app, and they didn’t even bother sampling properly.

    There are other issues in the app such as weird artefacts at higher frequencies Etc that I’ve seen other users speak about before hunting down myself.

    I actually really agree with what someone said on here once re isymphonic: it’s extremely hit and miss.

    I haven’t criticised the dev about te quality of the samples, which I don’t think are great previously, although I have stated not being a huge fan, because that’s a different matter, but this is extremely poor, and much worse that it’s never been fixed.

    Beathawk is better than sampletank but I don’t find the orchestral stuff usable. For me, blue mangoo, ifretless apps are the best for brass if you strip out the reverb, with te roli noise swam packs absolutely streets ahead of everything. I would play them over pc vsts but it’s all individual taste which is why I didn’t criticise the dev for samples quality. However, this should have been fixed long ago, and it’s not acceptable to excuse it because some other parts of the app work.

  • @wingwizard said:
    It’s not a small detail and dismissing it as such misses the lack of value in a product.

    How many instruments come in the original product? I really should give this trombone a listen. Just to get the blood boiling.

    It's a small defect in a very large set of samples.

    There are lots of free trombones as a workaround.

    If every instrument was bad I'd have refunded it too.

    Grinding this axe here does no one much good. If anyone skips iSymphonic based on your opinion it's quality then they are the loose, in my humble (but persistent) opinion. When it's good nothing comes close on IOS for excellence. Expensive but high quality overall. Building a full orchestra like the Miroslav will go way over $100 and there will be holes.

    Serious music producers spent a lot for their orchestras and use Desktops. For IOS, we need to accept from the App Store and make do.

  • edited January 13

    @McD said:

    @wingwizard said:
    It’s not a small detail and dismissing it as such misses the lack of value in a product.

    How many instruments come in the original product? I really should give this trombone a listen. Just to get the blood boiling.

    It's a small defect in a very large set of samples.

    There are lots of free trombones as a workaround.

    If every instrument was bad I'd have refunded it too.

    Grinding this axe here does no one much good. If anyone skips iSymphonic based on your opinion it's quality then they are the loose, in my humble (but persistent) opinion. When it's good nothing comes close on IOS for excellence. Expensive but high quality overall. Building a full orchestra like the Miroslav will go way over $100 and there will be holes.

    Serious music producers spent a lot for their orchestras and use Desktops. For IOS, we need to accept from the App Store and make do.

    I’m not grinding an axe, I mase a legitimate point so that people know how there are unusable patches. I even started off wondering if it was my fault so I’ve been fair. The only reason i did so in more than one post is because you are, as you admit, persistent, in trying to dismiss that wholly legitimate criticism, because you like the functional parts of the app.. By all means, like the parts of te app that work, but it’s neither fair nor right to dismiss the criticism of te parts that don’t.

    I’m just rebutting your own persistence in belittling the problem. This thread isn’t a review of isymphonic overall value, it’s specifically addressing unusable patches. If you find value in the app that doesn’t excuse or obviate the latter.

    There are many apps I love, roli swam packs being one - if you were to post about a problem in that app I would not dismiss it or try to fudge over it by talking about the aspects of the app I love as though that made the problem non existent.

    There are too many broad general opinions imo in your posts about iOS quality overall the app quality overall Etc when all I’m doing is posting specifically about a specific problem. I’m not telling anyone not to buy it because of that problem or even commenting on its overall value which you are. I am however going to highlight a problem which is not a small one, and which is one of quite a few, which people should know in order to come to their own conclusions about the app.

    Edit: oh f*** it, I have criticised the quality of the app in previous post but only when it emerged that this was a real issue. I’d kept quiet about my personal opinion on its quality beforehand.

  • @wingwizard said:
    There are many apps I love, roli swam packs being one

    Don't get me started on those lousy Swan packs that only work in standalone mode as it clearly states somewhere in the fine print. Great sound but useless in AUM. Anyone that buys that Roli Swan pack is ripped off and deceived. Does sound nice tho'. Must admit.

    I got the strings... yummy. But no AUv3. Really? You tell me after I buy it. Who reads the
    fine print.

    iSymphonic Trombone - BAD. Got it.

    Have you contacted Crudebytes support? They don't hang here. Any reply?

  • @McD said:

    @wingwizard said:
    There are many apps I love, roli swam packs being one

    Don't get me started on those lousy Swan packs that only work in standalone mode as it clearly states somewhere in the fine print. Great sound but useless in AUM. Anyone that buys that Roli Swan pack is ripped off and deceived. Does sound nice tho'. Must admit.

    I got the strings... yummy. But no AUv3. Really? You tell me after I buy it. Who reads the
    fine print.

    iSymphonic Trombone - BAD. Got it.

    Have you contacted Crudebytes support? They don't hang here. Any reply?

    Haha I completely agree actually. Frustrates the hell out of me and I’ve been using my own workaround of plugging one iPad into my audio device and recording into another iPad like it’s an instrument. I one hundred percent accept anyone not wanting that app for those reasons, it’s bloody annoying and ridiculous imo. I already spoke to them about it. But like with isymphonic for you, the quality of the sounds makes it just about.... just just just about worthwhile for me. I have a roli lightblock and playing it with the swam sounds is the single best experience I have had musically outside acoustic instruments. I think I’m more of a touch musician so this is fantastic for me. However, I support what you say too, as I feel the same way about isymphonic so relate to that feeling.

    If I was a fan of crudebyte apps I would contact them but I’m not really as I mentioned, I don’t mean this as an attack or anything just for me personally. I’ve owned a few and don’t like any of them much. I know a lot of people like their apps, so I’m just speaking subjectively, and I just never got on with their piano sounds - I’m very fussy and particular about what I like and the sound types I prefer, I don’t even like concert or grand pianos much, too cold for me. I’m also not having any personal dig at the dev as I don’t know him and he could be a really nice guy. I just Honestly think this one issue I posted about is really bad, and am surprised it’s not been addressed. Perhaps I was a bit harsh in my tone before, I dunno, forums are weird. It’s just how avoidable it is.

  • @wingwizard said:
    I just never got on with their piano sounds

    I'm sucker for a piano product.

    I have them all I think except for Crudebytes CMP Grand Piano.

    My go to is the Ravenscroft 275.

    The Korg Ivory Amercian Model D is good too.

    Colossus is amazing with 12 layers or is it 15. Hermiode Tuning (adapts the 3rd for more sonority).

    You have a Roli? I just bought an Akai controller. Basic unit to get knobs, Pads, keys and a Joy Stick. I want to play with Mozaic drivers for real hardware devices. I have a script with 16 knobs and I want fine grain tweaking.

    But I covet the Seaboard.

    Explain how the LightBlock works for a Swam instrument. Like for a Cello or Oboe?
    Is it cheaper than the Seaboard? I heard the Roli stuff breaks easily and your toast.
    No parts or repairs. Seems expensive but I do like expressive control like the really expensive musical toys from the 18th century.

    I also have an EWI on my wish list. I like that sound too. I saw the Yellow Jackets and
    Bob Mintzer played one with Russell Ferrante on piano. Front row seats. I want that EWI.

  • @McD said:

    @wingwizard said:
    I just never got on with their piano sounds

    I'm sucker for a piano product.

    I have them all I think except for Crudebytes CMP Grand Piano.

    My go to is the Ravenscroft 275.

    The Korg Ivory Amercian Model D is good too.

    Colossus is amazing with 12 layers or is it 15. Hermiode Tuning (adapts the 3rd for more sonority).

    You have a Roli? I just bought an Akai controller. Basic unit to get knobs, Pads, keys and a Joy Stick. I want to play with Mozaic drivers for real hardware devices. I have a script with 16 knobs and I want fine grain tweaking.

    But I covet the Seaboard.

    Explain how the LightBlock works for a Swam instrument. Like for a Cello or Oboe?
    Is it cheaper than the Seaboard? I heard the Roli stuff breaks easily and your toast.
    No parts or repairs. Seems expensive but I do like expressive control like the really expensive musical toys from the 18th century.

    I also have an EWI on my wish list. I like that sound too. I saw the Yellow Jackets and
    Bob Mintzer played one with Russell Ferrante on piano. Front row seats. I want that EWI.

    I played around with the seaboard block quite a bit before going for the light ]block. I wanted a seaboard forever until I tried it and I actually really dislike te feel. They use a different surface material than they do in the lighblocks, it’s very sticky and makes sliding difficult. They just don’t feel good at all to me, whereas the lighblock is a smooth material and much better for slides and impacts in my opinion. With the added bonus it’s relatively inexpensive. One thing I’ve read is that when the battery goes that’s it - has annoyed a few people.

    For me a seaboard is also a poor usage design, in that it uses the pianos form when it’s not playable as a piano - it just feels terrible and is very hard to play, there’s a reason a piano is designed as it is and is a percussive instrument. I only realised these things trying them. The lighblock is the design I like best personally for any non acoustic instrument. I think te grid is much better suited to purpose and I like it from the point of view of discarding instrument designs that are a product of factors outside playability - a keyboard design is pointless as a base point when starting from scratch. I always liked te grid design in apps, it fits and also makes me feel like I’m playing a genuinely new instrument which these things are. It opens up new ways of approaching music by dispensing with te mental idea of a traditional form which kind of sneaks into your mindset I think.

    Sorry for going on :) I did have a... eigenharp pico which had a wind controller . I don’t doubt they’re great instruments but it wasn’t for me. Too complicated to set up with pc, didn’t feel great. Think the hardware got over complicated in its initial stages but now mpe is becoming a norm it’s much better. Oh I have a McMillen k-board too which I like. Not mpe but poly after touch and just a nice thing for what it does. Great synth controller imo not as tactile or responsive or anywhere near as controllable as mpe roli which feels like an instrument. I’d tried the Xkey air too, and own one - poly after touch is grea but it’s horrendous as a piano, like typing on an Apple keyboard. And makes a horrible clacky sound, really unmusical.

    Wait I’ll finally address your question now. Your point about roli breaking easily I can’t comment too much on. I wouldn’t personally spend big on their stuff as I don’t rate the seaboard at all for the reasons mentioned, but the lighblock is relatively inexpensive and feels much much better. I have read as mentioned people complaining about qa, different sensitivities across units, only to go for the lightblock m which is much better, and that when the battery goes it can’t be replaced. But as much as this all annoys me, my real world experience I can only liken to te Apple Pencil. Tried it, was one of the best and most instantly rewarding and enjoyable things I’ve ever tried, bought it. It’s honestly fantastic and for me personally, with te swam instruments on noise. Mind blowing, makes all other electronic instruments ... I mean just a different league, like playing with something real. This is why I’m so into swam, rightly or wrongly.

    You mentioned cello or oboe. It works great with string instruments - you have to play them though, add your own vibrato but that’s perfct imo... but for me the clarinets Etc saxes are absolutely phenomenal. They are imo the best synthetic instruments out there full stop. I know others disagree and there are diff opinions, but I now have zero interest in sample libraries. As I mentioned I’m a touch musician - I’m not a fantastic musician or anything, I don’t have great scales knowledge Etc Etc but I think I am pretty good in terms of touch and feel. So the dynamics of things for me is much much more meaningful and makes the sound infinitely better more alive and real than the sample quality which end up being much of a muchness. I think the parisi bro’s, I think it is demonstrate what I’m talking about, and I only mentioned the touch feel thing because I want to describe what it is I love about the roli stuff and swam so much rather than bragging or anything :D.

    The dynamics change very naturally. I couldn’t even be bothered to check exactly what is going on or what they’ve mapped - in the app it’s been kind of curated for you, the instrument, and I think it’s amazing. You can slide or glide and impact changes very naturally, the sound. Horizontally obviously changes tone but the vertical sliding or gliding or whatever does a different thing with each instruments. It’s not very useful with strings, makes it bow more at an angle I think, but with clarinets sax Etc it’s incredible, it just adds a harsh rasp which makes the instruments incredibly playable when you can do this in degrees and while doing whatever flicks bends and flourishes. It adds for me a whole blues jazz musician sensibility and is extremely expressive.

    One of The best string section arrangements I’ve seen have also been layered swam instruments. I do know fans of te sample libraries who don’t like very much but I think it’s one of those things where if you like it you love it and lose a lot of interest in sampling. I hear very expensive East west samples, that I just find meh. Probably the only thing that excites me with samples is when they get some really cool sounding mic distance going on - 90mperfent of the samples themselves at best serve their purpose and nothing more. Sometimes there’ll be something very very good so I’m not completely belittling it all for me.

    But with swam, it’s a whole different world. And I do think it’s catering to people who are very attuned to dynamics and tone and it’s made me realise there a divide in the musician community here. I expect there would be a lot of arguing from the other category re being attuned to tone but I don’t think they hear things the former group, who are smaller do, or appreciate them, and so come at swam from a completely different angle. it’s not a press a button app..l it’s a thing that blossoms and opens up the more you out of yourself into it whereas sample libraries can sound great at a touch but give nothing more and cannot open up anymore, and the expressiveness is kind of counter to the design and trying its best to overcome this. Expressiveness in swam and roli is the basis.

  • edited January 13

    My setup is a kawai digital piano for piano, roli for orchestral or mpe stuff and I need a more typical keyboard midi controller for organs keyboards synth stuff. After about fifteen years trying everything out, sensel etc, I have come to the conclusion that these three things do what they do better than any single alternative and cannot be replaced. Keyboards for me are unplayable for piano (the touch thing). And synths Etc feel sluggish on a digital piano. And the roli is perfect for expressive instruments. Otherwise the iPad itself I a great controller and massively underrated. With the addition of a couple f guitars I’ve got everything there,

  • @wingwizard Thanks. I get your take on these controllers and would like to be able to use the Swam with a sensitive surface. I will check out the cheaper Roli option. I just pulled the trigger o the Akai but I'll likely fix this hole in my collection ASAP. I'm hoping Drambo isn't
    $50. It should drop this week along with Mononoke and maybe the @Blue_Mangoo Guitar Amp sim app. I practice guitar a lot and need an iPhone instance. But I'll buy it for the iPad just to show props to the @Blue_Mangoo team for taking the time to educate me on the math of FX and tradeoffs like aliasing and the myth of circuit modeling BS.

    I love it when a thread goes left and you have a real conversation. Some hate threads that don't stay on topic and pollute the Forum's database with idle chat. I tried idle chat with IOS Music makers and you realize you at the wrong party sometimes. A thread can create a nice local bar atmosphere with less noise and conversation about something you'd pay to avoid.

    So, I appreciate this thread and hope some lurkers learn something about Swam, Roli, Crudebytes and the nature of controllers to be expressive - iso when a standard keyboard is NOT your perfect surface. I have carpal tunnel issues and tend to hurt myself with weighted keys anyway so alternative approaches to making those sounds that take me to that place.

    The guitars have been starting to hurt too.

    So the Roli might help.

    The Akai is for generative approaches to building and morphing textures while my hands rehab a bit. Typing doesn't help... must type lighter.

  • edited January 13

    @McD said:
    @wingwizard Thanks. I get your take on these controllers and would like to be able to use the Swam with a sensitive surface. I will check out the cheaper Roli option. I just pulled the trigger o the Akai but I'll likely fix this hole in my collection ASAP. I'm hoping Drambo isn't
    $50. It should drop this week along with Mononoke and maybe the @Blue_Mangoo Guitar Amp sim app. I practice guitar a lot and need an iPhone instance. But I'll buy it for the iPad just to show props to the @Blue_Mangoo team for taking the time to educate me on the math of FX and tradeoffs like aliasing and the myth of circuit modeling BS.

    I love it when a thread goes left and you have a real conversation. Some hate threads that don't stay on topic and pollute the Forum's database with idle chat. I tried idle chat with IOS Music makers and you realize you at the wrong party sometimes. A thread can create a nice local bar atmosphere with less noise and conversation about something you'd pay to avoid.

    So, I appreciate this thread and hope some lurkers learn something about Swam, Roli, Crudebytes and the nature of controllers to be expressive - iso when a standard keyboard is NOT your perfect surface. I have carpal tunnel issues and tend to hurt myself with weighted keys anyway so alternative approaches to making those sounds that take me to that place.

    The guitars have been starting to hurt too.

    So the Roli might help.

    The Akai is for generative approaches to building and morphing textures while my hands rehab a bit. Typing doesn't help... must type lighter.

    No problem. Sorry if I’m a bit spiky now and again, it’s just how it goes on forums sometimes for me but I’m an alright person, honest. :) I also know that sometimes I come over very critical of something - not meaning this circumstance - and people often take umbrage at this. For me, I am an expressive person, and I enjoy hearing other people’s love or hatred of THINSG whether or not I love or hate them, because I like the enthusiasm and I also respect the difference in opinion. I never ever mean to change anyone else’s feeling about an app, or to claim my feeling is objectively correct, I’m just saying how I feel, and I think that’s not very common, as it’s often ended up in life that people try to convince me otherwise as they personally only express these feelings when they want to convince others or assert that opinion. Maybe it’s because I’m in my head so much and interested in my own stuff but I don’t care at all if anyone agrees or disagrees just that there’s an openness going on, but I know others don’t operate like this largely. I dunno why I went into all that, but it is true.

    Agree with you entirely about the nice bar chat stmosphere, the musical equivalent of picking at snacks while the game’s on the tv above the bar.

    I’m most excut3d about continua at the moment. Think it sounds amazing in demos.i also love blue mangoo so hope the guitar amp sim is cool - it’s an exciting departure. I play a lot of guitar and have never cared much for any of the amp sims. Only tonestack and bias were usable for me, and actually flying haggis was great for some stuff. I wanted to like tonestack because of all te effects but in truth I just find it a bit artificial sounding and lacking in dynamics - I should say that I come from a background of bands guitarbshops Etc so my frame of reference is every real guitar amp ever plus line 6 sims Etc and I’m probably pretty demanding and annoying. I dislike most real amps a great deal too. I have now managed to find a few sounds on bias that I like. What I need are nice non synthetic dry cleaner sounds -not wet and glassy- to bring through all the little touches on the guitar strings like Hendrix softer pieces, something bluesy, with a little bit of grit at the edges, and a nice aggressive heavy treble high drive sound, nowhere near metal levels, but where you can hear it just pushing into the drive or sinking back from it like it’s running at the edge of the shore occasionally splashing into the water. Or something equally demented. I really really love these sonic and dynamic areas where the crossovers happen. Finally sold off half my guitars and settled on a casino.

    I do get fatigued on the digital piano but play through it and suffer later. Edit: obv nothing comparable to the issues you have with this. With guitar it’s only the need to build calluses when I haven’t played a while that gets me.

    Actually, one thing about te lightblock is that it does need to be struck maybe a bit harder than id like. I think you can edit this but not sure how much as it’s not been a big issue for me but could be for you. The seaboard block is reasonably priced, I thinK? Although I personally dislike the material I think it would feel good to play in a gentler way where you’re more controlling te sound with pressure and subtle shifts that way rather than slides and impacts which imo it’s not good with.

  • @wingwizard said:
    No problem. Sorry if I’m a bit spiky now and again

    We call all learn a lot by listening (i.e. reading and asking questions).

    Agree with you entirely about the nice bar chat stmosphere, the musical equivalent of picking at snacks while the game’s on the tv above the bar.

    Ideally it's conversation without an agenda. I do tend to err on the side of having an agenda and then it becomes an argument and I seek to gain concessions. It rarely works.

    I’m most excut3d about continua at the moment. Think it sounds amazing in demos.

    It will get a lot of work from me. I love synths with a random button to find some of the
    capabilities that aren't demo'ed or in the presets. Then save the cool ones.

    play a lot of guitar and have never cared much for any of the amp sims.

    I have to use headphones. I tend to play while the TV is on and I'm reading the subtitles
    while my wife listens to the audio and I'm practicing over backing tracks. I telco'ed an iPhone to the guitar and load up an AUM "rig" and play iTunes Backing tracks or use YouTube tracks. I can see why real amps would be the only acceptable sound for anyone that can use play out. Have you seen the Boss Waza Wireless Amp Sim Headphones? That's even lighter than my Velcro rig and sounds so much better. $400 I think, tho'.

    Only tonestack and bias were usable for me.

    Me too. But I have settled on some AUM Rigs with ReAmp, Magic Death Eye, DC-9's,
    AdVerb2, Rooms! IR cabinets. Nice sound for my tastes. I don't have dynamics in my wheelhouse yet. Still learning the neck. Mostly pentatonic boxes and some scales.

    settled on a casino.

    Not familiar. I'll Google it.

    Actually, one thing about te lightblock is that it does need to be struck maybe a bit harder than id like. I think you can edit this but not sure how much as it’s not been a big issue for me but could be for you.

    I think I'll be OK. I attack keyboards like the EX-Drummer I am. Trying to play complex rhythms for a groove and always at the edge of my technique for that adrenalin rush.
    Trying to be faster with every session. Terrible habits abound even if I sound OK.

    The seaboard block is reasonably priced, I thinK?

    Amazon shows $99 (50% off). Looks like Roli might be clearing out inventory. That can mean a new model is imminent OR it has return issues with quality problems. Probably a new model for NAMM this week.

    I have a goal to change the way I think of music making. Closer to the approach @Linearlineman advises with every session being intended to make discoveries.
    Make smaller movements and learn to build a mind/hand connection and ignore
    genre and prior art (like licks and specific chord progressions). Very much like ambient where chance plays a larger roll and there aren't wrong notes. Just surprises that can become new material.

    As a listener I have avoided that end of the musical pool because it's hard to rate the
    players abilities against the current hot players. How do they rate against Chick Core or
    Steve Vai? I'm starting to look for someone that takes me to new places. I don't even know yet who will hit me as inspiring. Bill Frisell probably for guitar and not sure for keys.

    The thread on electronic music artists helped expose a raft of interesting artists.

  • @McD ... with age comes wisdom! I support you in your Age of Discovery!

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @McD ... with age comes wisdom! I support you in your Age of Discovery!

    Actually, I have "Benjamin Button Disorder" BBD. I am becoming a child.
    I estimate my mental age to be around 13. I'm also dealing with a condition my Doctor calls "reverse puberty".

    So, with age comes innocence. Have you seen the new Star Wars. That girl is cool, huh?
    The guys are so full of themselves... big shots.

    I did discover something recently but I can't remember what it was. I just know I liked it and
    wish I had more of it. Weird huh?

  • There are worse things than reverse puberty @McD. I had prostate surgery. Now I have retrograde ejaculations. All those potential homunculus’s... what a waste. And I was gonna repopulate the world with a better model. Sigh.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Now I have retrograde ejaculations.

    WTF are you talking about? I looked it up and ejaculate means:

    1. say something quickly and suddenly
    2. and some other meanings about sailors but they misspell sailor.

    Is this a "you have your head up your ass joke". I googled for prostate and yuck.
    Are you talking to the little thing near your "you know what" through your ass?

    Never mind. I don't want to know. Perv'. Had some funny dreams but they have stopped.

  • edited January 15

    @McD said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @McD ... with age comes wisdom! I support you in your Age of Discovery!

    Actually, I have "Benjamin Button Disorder" BBD. I am becoming a child.
    I estimate my mental age to be around 13. I'm also dealing with a condition my Doctor calls "reverse puberty".

    So, with age comes innocence. Have you seen the new Star Wars. That girl is cool, huh?
    The guys are so full of themselves... big shots.

    I did discover something recently but I can't remember what it was. I just know I liked it and
    wish I had more of it. Weird huh?

    I’m pretty sure the whole of Hollywood, music industry, and the western media are made to stand in grids =en masse for guided morning exercise, chanting your above Star Wars comment, while excerpts from the female eunuch play through a fallopian shaped gramophone, and on a large screen a lecture is given by a young sociology graduate on how Einstein, newton, Shakespeare and Mozart were all strong non-caucasian transgender-women, with the matchsticks in the eyes, and bamboo shot fingernails, and the war memorials knocked down and recast to pay tribute to those brave many who stayed at home to grow cabbages on football pitches...

    And the cookie cutter non-conformists pulling the string in their back to give voice to their pastel shaded outrage...

    This thread took a right turn long before retrograde ejaculations.

  • @wingwizard said:

    @McD said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    @McD ... with age comes wisdom! I support you in your Age of Discovery!

    Actually, I have "Benjamin Button Disorder" BBD. I am becoming a child.
    I estimate my mental age to be around 13. I'm also dealing with a condition my Doctor calls "reverse puberty".

    So, with age comes innocence. Have you seen the new Star Wars. That girl is cool, huh?
    The guys are so full of themselves... big shots.

    I did discover something recently but I can't remember what it was. I just know I liked it and
    wish I had more of it. Weird huh?

    I’m pretty sure the whole of Hollywood, music industry, and the western media are made to stand in grids =en masse for guided morning exercise, chanting your above Star Wars comment, while excerpts from the female eunuch play through a fallopian shaped gramophone, and on a large screen a lecture is given by a young sociology graduate on how Einstein, newton, Shakespeare and Mozart were all strong non-caucasian transgender-women, with the matchsticks in the eyes, and bamboo shot fingernails, and the war memorials knocked down and recast to pay tribute to those brave many who stayed at home to grow cabbages on football pitches...

    And the cookie cutter non-conformists pulling the string in their back to give voice to their pastel shaded outrage...

    This thread took a right turn long before retrograde ejaculations.

    That's a nice bit of writing. I appreciate the effort involved to craft something like that.

    It was a Left Turn from my point of view.

  • So has anyone actually contacted the developer with this feedback or is it more hot air?

  • edited January 17

    Cookie cutter nonconformists... a perverse paradox... like organized chaos.

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