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call for beta testers for a guitar amp sim AU3 plugin

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Comments

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Blue_Mangoo : unfortunately on the road and can't write at length. I really think you should re-consider the "a/b switch" issue. I hope you won't mind my offering some more thoughts on the topic as I think you are overlooking its importance to non-hobbyists.

    It wouldn't double the number of exposed parameters. I am only suggesting exposing one additional parameter (an a/b toggle ). Sure it increases some internal parameters, but in the grand scheme of things, the amount of memory is negligible and the benefit immense -- particularly if you are hoping serious players will use it. It is the sort of detail that has a subtle but significant meaning to a player,

    I don't understand why an A/B switch seems not in-keeping with it being AU? It seems perfectly in keeping with it being a serious AU.

    If, for example, I am using AUM to host my virtual guitar amp. I want the same button on my Blueboard or other source of control data to always toggle regardless of what base amp setting/model I've chosen.

    As a practical matter, if a player has to create two different variants for every amp tone AND be able to switch between them on the fly he/she will have to do a lot of planning and custom configuration which simply isn't a practical solution. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple thing for an app to implement.

    The long term benefit of building something like this in would be immense in terms of usability--particularly to guitar players (who as a whole tend not to want to get deep into the weeds of MIDI).

    In my opinion, it is far more consequential to its long-term appeal than whether or not I need to use an IR app on top of it. It is the sort of detail that tells a player whether the app was designed by players for players or designed by programmers. The sort of detail that would increase my confidence in what will come later if it is in version one. It tells me: these folks get guitar players in a way most programmers don't.

    I think the world of you and what you are trying to do and hope this will be taken in the positive spirit with which it is intended.

  • McDMcD

    @Faland said:
    I can’t live without...

    Since this is coming out as an AUv3 app you can easily drop in into any DAW's
    FX settings and add extra FX too.

    A DAW that supports IAA apps can allow you to do this as well with Tone Stack, etc.

    I have AUv3's for all these FX'es.

    a tape delay,
    a comp,
    a chorus,
    an overdrive,
    a tremolo,
    and a spring reverb.
    iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    I think putting this in the guitar category might create these types of responses.
    If buyers expect a Guitar Product they will search for something they want and
    refund if their particular "tone" is missing. Financially this will NOT be good for @Blue_Mangoo.

    Maybe there's a new category of app. The "JAX Filter Collection" occupies this same space
    and is very poorly understood. I suggested @flo26 check it out and he just replied "I'm not into that type of thing."

    I think videos of every Tone included in Versions 1.0 would help insure buyers can
    check for a sound they want.

    Then commit to new Tone Packs in updates (at no cost) or IAP's to follow and you'll
    always be ables to ask for tone targets and just keep adding new Tone Packs.

    Telling Guitarists not to use other apps is a bad idea even if it's a bad idea.

    Many will trash the app and state a preference for any other option. That's what most guitar
    forums are like. There are factions and hundreds of product to choose from.

    "Why isn't there one low cost product that just does it all?"

    Tone Boutique Model One... new Tone Boutique Models are planned for 2020 and beyond.

    This is a very playable product for my tastes. I'll use 1-2 presets 80% of the playing time and
    dabble with the other 20% as my musical skills develop to play additional genres. I could play
    a power chord tune if my life depended on it. I play Jazz standards and Blues.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @McD said:

    @Faland said:
    I can’t live without...

    Since this is coming out as an AUv3 app you can easily drop in into any DAW's
    FX settings and add extra FX too.

    A DAW that supports IAA apps can allow you to do this as well with Tone Stack, etc.

    I have AUv3's for all these FX'es.

    a tape delay,
    a comp,
    a chorus,
    an overdrive,
    a tremolo,
    and a spring reverb.
    iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    I (sadly) have got all the guitar apps and almost all the AU FX available on iOS, and if you read carefully my previous post, I said I’d like to have a simple “one kind of amp emu” without any effects but a spring rev, instead of another big thing as Amplitube or Tonestack. 😇

  • McDMcD

    @Faland said:
    I (sadly) have got all the guitar apps and almost all the AU FX available on iOS, and if you read carefully my previous post, I said I’d like to have a simple “one kind of amp emu” without any effects but a spring rev, instead of another big thing as Amplitube or Tonestack. 😇

    Sorry. I tend to comment about ideas and it comes off as an attack on the person that stimulated the thought.

    I hear your input but don't want to wait for the perfect "one app" solution or enhancements to enable user tweaking. Making a Pro Editor could be an app with a Pro price tag since 80% would never bother to learn to adjust a software driven
    modeler. Exposing the details of the modeler is also like asking Kemper to expose his IP.
    Clones are made by taking the unit apart and buying the components to make the clone.
    Software cloning is even easier than buying parts. Just analyze the functionality.

    I put ToneBoosters Reverb after this app and Rooms! for more presence and I'm done.
    I put them in AUM and Airdropped them to my iPhones. Oops, no ToneBoosters in iPhone.
    So, I switched to AudioReverb from @Virsyn. Rooms! needs to have the IR available too.
    But I will create Rigs on my iPad and just load AUM projects on my phones and skip the GUI
    headaches entirely. Nothing could be simpler for good Guitar Tone at a bargain.

    If we convince @Blue_Mangoo to wait until he knocks off these issues the market will miss a great product for more months but they would also potentially reduce the number of refunds by having dozens of Preset ready to run. So, that's a business decision w.r.t. payback time. Stark was killed by a poor Cabinet emulator when it was pretty good in other areas.

    I was on a beta for an IR product that was better in many ways than anything we have but
    the beta killed it. Probably due to negative feedback about specific included IR's and the issues of cross licensing good Cab IR's. Guitar players know what sound right.

    For me this app as is sound better than any other option I have already purchased.
    I like clean tones and low latency. Must buy. Add AudioReverb and an IR app and I feel like
    I have the best of all worlds. I have 6 IR apps to choose from and over a dozen Reverbs.
    Compressors? I have 5 to choose from.

    I do think the A/B feature for "Pedal" input is worth waiting for it it's called a guitar Amp replacement. But these extra FX'es, stomps and somebodies favorite Amp are more of a nit for me.

    This is like an open beta to discuss these issues and properly set expectations for what this beast really is. Most guitar players do NOT hang here. Some here do play guitar too.

  • McDMcD

    I wish @bedheadproducer would weigh in. He represents a lot of expertise for this discussion.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    ...snip...snip

    However, at this beta testing stage, I want to identify places where we need to improve the plugin before release. So if you are using magic death eye not as a compressor but as a way to “fix” something that isnt right about the amp tone, then I would like to hear an example of the sound you are trying to get so I can get something like it added into the app.

    Keep in mind that because I had limited time to play (1 to 2 hours), I didn't fully explore whether I could get what I needed strictly by tweaking Gain Stage with nothing else in-line. So, what I am about to say might change given more time to tweak.

    My initial impression before adding Magic Death Eye was that things sounded pretty good on first listen but the "feel" for a lack of a better word was not what I look for in an amp. I can't quite put my finger on it (and to be clear: none of the amp sims has that "it" yet), but the relationship between how hard I was picking and the resulting variation in tone and grit. I am not saying it was bad just different from my personal preference -- and to be clear, this is an issue with all the iOS amp sims.

    While I don't normally use a compressor with my real amp, I thought that I would try the Magic Death Eye because i had heard a demo by @flo26 in which he used it -- and I recalled a discussion long ago with a bandmate (in the long ago when I was hoping to make a living from music) who was an amazing guitarist, amp afficionado and engineer who explained about the natural compression that preamp tubes provide in some ranges. So, I thought I'd see if Magic Death Eye might help with that. I felt like it did. I might be able to adjust the settings of Gain Stage so that the output sounds the same, but the feel improved for me with it in.

    If that "I don't know what" were inherent in Gain Stage that would be great, but it might be a tall order. I'll explore some more and see if I can be more articulate about specifics.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Blue_Mangoo : unfortunately on the road and can't write at length. I really think you should re-consider the "a/b switch" issue. I hope you won't mind my offering some more thoughts on the topic as I think you are overlooking its importance to non-hobbyists.

    It wouldn't double the number of exposed parameters. I am only suggesting exposing one additional parameter (an a/b toggle ). Sure it increases some internal parameters, but in the grand scheme of things, the amount of memory is negligible and the benefit immense -- particularly if you are hoping serious players will use it. It is the sort of detail that has a subtle but significant meaning to a player,

    I don't understand why an A/B switch seems not in-keeping with it being AU? It seems perfectly in keeping with it being a serious AU.

    If, for example, I am using AUM to host my virtual guitar amp. I want the same button on my Blueboard or other source of control data to always toggle regardless of what base amp setting/model I've chosen.

    As a practical matter, if a player has to create two different variants for every amp tone AND be able to switch between them on the fly he/she will have to do a lot of planning and custom configuration which simply isn't a practical solution. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple thing for an app to implement.

    The long term benefit of building something like this in would be immense in terms of usability--particularly to guitar players (who as a whole tend not to want to get deep into the weeds of MIDI).

    In my opinion, it is far more consequential to its long-term appeal than whether or not I need to use an IR app on top of it. It is the sort of detail that tells a player whether the app was designed by players for players or designed by programmers. The sort of detail that would increase my confidence in what will come later if it is in version one. It tells me: these folks get guitar players in a way most programmers don't.

    I think the world of you and what you are trying to do and hope this will be taken in the positive spirit with which it is intended.

    The problem with having an AB switch in an audio unit is that when you save a preset you have to save both the A and B settings. Otherwise when you restore the preset you would only get the setting that was active when you pressed save. The other one would be lost.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    ...snip...snip

    However, at this beta testing stage, I want to identify places where we need to improve the plugin before release. So if you are using magic death eye not as a compressor but as a way to “fix” something that isnt right about the amp tone, then I would like to hear an example of the sound you are trying to get so I can get something like it added into the app.

    Keep in mind that because I had limited time to play (1 to 2 hours), I didn't fully explore whether I could get what I needed strictly by tweaking Gain Stage with nothing else in-line. So, what I am about to say might change given more time to tweak.

    My initial impression before adding Magic Death Eye was that things sounded pretty good on first listen but the "feel" for a lack of a better word was not what I look for in an amp. I can't quite put my finger on it (and to be clear: none of the amp sims has that "it" yet), but the relationship between how hard I was picking and the resulting variation in tone and grit. I am not saying it was bad just different from my personal preference -- and to be clear, this is an issue with all the iOS amp sims.

    While I don't normally use a compressor with my real amp, I thought that I would try the Magic Death Eye because i had heard a demo by @flo26 in which he used it -- and I recalled a discussion long ago with a bandmate (in the long ago when I was hoping to make a living from music) who was an amazing guitarist, amp afficionado and engineer who explained about the natural compression that preamp tubes provide in some ranges. So, I thought I'd see if Magic Death Eye might help with that. I felt like it did. I might be able to adjust the settings of Gain Stage so that the output sounds the same, but the feel improved for me with it in.

    If that "I don't know what" were inherent in Gain Stage that would be great, but it might be a tall order. I'll explore some more and see if I can be more articulate about specifics.

    The feel of the amp is the main thing I spent time on when designing this. I think I can make it feel like anything you want. Its just a matter of knowing what feel you are looking for. Currently all the presets feel exactly the way I want them to feel. But the main reason for doing this testing is that I know there are other styles of music that I don’t play. If you can tell me which presets feel wrong and send an example of a recording that feels right, I will attempt to make an amp that feels the way you want it to.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @flo26 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @flo26 said:
    Here is my review of this app.
    I’m sorry but I must admit i’m not really convinced by what i’ve been hearing.
    I’m going to try to be clear (it is not easy when english in not your first language).
    It sounds as if i plugged my amp on a mixing console via line out.that’s the reason for my previous post.
    I wanted to be sure that i used the app the right way.
    To my ears ,the speaker simulator is achille’s heel of the app.
    It doesn’t sound the right way to me.

    Yes. The speaker simulation doesn’t sound totally convincing. I was afraid of using too much processor power because the amp itself is already so heavy. I’ll try increasing the density of reflections in the stereo to mono unit. Hopefullythat doesn’t use up too mych processor power.

    Thanks for your input.

    The preamp section is rather good.
    I have a question though : why so much gain? It can be almost unplayable.

    Do you feel that all the amp types have too much gain or just some of them? Does it get better when you turn the input gain down?

    No,sure,not all of them.
    If i remember correctly,crunch is not really crunchy but heavy (for me).
    And brown,heavy amps etc....
    Yes,it sound better when gain is turned down.
    Hope it helps.
    Flo

    After listening to your audio recordings, I strongly suspect we just need to make a few more amp models that do the styles you are looking for. I wonder if perhaps your problem with the cab is also simply a matter of us lacking some key presets. I’ll work on the types of tones you sent in that recording and then we’ll see if that solves the problem. I totally agree that the tones you are talking about are essential sounds that should be in it.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @flo26 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @flo26 said:
    Here is my review of this app.
    I’m sorry but I must admit i’m not really convinced by what i’ve been hearing.
    I’m going to try to be clear (it is not easy when english in not your first language).
    It sounds as if i plugged my amp on a mixing console via line out.that’s the reason for my previous post.
    I wanted to be sure that i used the app the right way.
    To my ears ,the speaker simulator is achille’s heel of the app.
    It doesn’t sound the right way to me.

    Yes. The speaker simulation doesn’t sound totally convincing. I was afraid of using too much processor power because the amp itself is already so heavy. I’ll try increasing the density of reflections in the stereo to mono unit. Hopefullythat doesn’t use up too mych processor power.

    Thanks for your input.

    The preamp section is rather good.
    I have a question though : why so much gain? It can be almost unplayable.

    Do you feel that all the amp types have too much gain or just some of them? Does it get better when you turn the input gain down?

    No,sure,not all of them.
    If i remember correctly,crunch is not really crunchy but heavy (for me).
    And brown,heavy amps etc....
    Yes,it sound better when gain is turned down.
    Hope it helps.
    Flo

    After listening to your audio recordings, I strongly suspect we just need to make a few more amp models that do the styles you are looking for. I wonder if perhaps your problem with the cab is also simply a matter of us lacking some key presets. I’ll work on the types of tones you sent in that recording and then we’ll see if that solves the problem. I totally agree that the tones you are talking about are essential sounds that should be in it.

    🙏👍

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @Rebus_Knebus said:
    Spent a couple of hours with it last night, and overall I'm kind of "meh" on this one. Kind of reminds of of when Klevgrand came out with Stark. There was a lot of initial hype, but when I sat down to play it I just wasn't getting tones that inspired me to play. I realize that's not easy to track down and fix, but it's the kind of thing that's hard to nail down and put into words.

    I agree with @Faland about the two different EQs. I'm used to having just a single tone stack on a guitar amp, and the interactions between the two EQs make it very non-intuitive to try to dial in what I'm looking for. The flexibility may allow you to get there, but I got frustrated in trying to replicate tones.

    For example, I wasn't able to get a good high gain sound for palm muted bridge humbucker riffs with any of the presets. With something like AmpKit, I pick a JCM800 or JCM900 model, turn up the gain with the tone pretty flat, and I'm 95% of the way there. With Gain Stage I never got close with any of the high gain models no matter how I tweaked the EQ. The intro to something like White Zombie's Thunder Kiss '65 has an isolated guitar sound like what I'm looking for.

    Ill look into it. That sound is very doable.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    But guitarists are like children: they love toys, colored die cast little boxes at their feet. I really will not buy a real amp with all in the box. Never. So, my choice should be, just a good two channels amp, with a great cabinet section, and a great spring reverb (and the awesome mono to stereo fx). Dot.

    I don’t like the two different EQs. I like simplicity, one eq is enough for my taste, apart when you use a 2 channels amp. I miss the presence knob, but I’m a quite old style guy.

    I don’t like a “all around” amp emu either. I prefer one single kind of amp per app. I don’t know if you know the Kuassa amps in the desktop world. I love their implementations. One plugin for clean, one for crunch, one for heavy sounds. They look awesome, costs fairly and sound great. I’d love to have something similar on iOS.

    This is kind of difficult to explain. I don’t want it to be a standalone guitar rig. I want it to be a complete amp. When you plug in to an amp its totally normal to use effects pedals with it. The same is true of Gain Stage. But its not normal to have a guitar amp and need to reamp it into a second amp before it sounds good enough to play. Similarly, If Gain Stage doesn’t sound good without a second amp plugin or a second stage of cabinet IR, then I want to fix that.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @McD said:
    I think it's ready to ship with the presets you have *'ed. Just commit to providing more in updates.

    Don't make this a Drambo app. It's really solid now. Just name 'em and let the buyers send tone requests for updates. Then every update will truly be an event that triggers more sales.

    "The new phone books are here." - Steve Martin in "The Jerk."
    I know...

    Q: "What's a phone book?"
    A: "It's that thick wad of paper under the kitchen table leg. 'Cause the trailer is not level."

    Friggin' developers are always the bottleneck. You're fired.

    Your point is good. If we keep making presets until everyone is happy then the app will never release. However, I want it to have enough presets so that it gets mostly positive reviews when it releases. I personally use only two presets for all my guitar playing: one clean and one crunch. Thats it. So far, no iOS amp sim has the kind of clean and crunch preset I like, so to me they are all worthless. This is a tough situation because I think many guitarists also feel this way: They only ever use no more than three different sounds and if a plugin doesn’t cover those three adequately well then its useless to them.

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    No problem! How many spring reverb impulses do you want?
    https://audiobombs.com/items/1379/classic-spring-reverb-impulse-responses
    https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/free-reverb-impulse-responses/
    https://emmanuelderuty.com/pages/impulses/
    https://www.dubbhism.org/2008/10/free-download-60-classic-and-king-tubby.html
    https://noisemikers.com/premier-90-reverberation-mods-schematics-and-impulse-response-irs/

    If you feel like boosting the stringy resonance character of a reverb spring even more then add the free CuSnP AUv3.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    ...snip...snip

    However, at this beta testing stage, I want to identify places where we need to improve the plugin before release. So if you are using magic death eye not as a compressor but as a way to “fix” something that isnt right about the amp tone, then I would like to hear an example of the sound you are trying to get so I can get something like it added into the app.

    Keep in mind that because I had limited time to play (1 to 2 hours), I didn't fully explore whether I could get what I needed strictly by tweaking Gain Stage with nothing else in-line. So, what I am about to say might change given more time to tweak.

    My initial impression before adding Magic Death Eye was that things sounded pretty good on first listen but the "feel" for a lack of a better word was not what I look for in an amp. I can't quite put my finger on it (and to be clear: none of the amp sims has that "it" yet), but the relationship between how hard I was picking and the resulting variation in tone and grit. I am not saying it was bad just different from my personal preference -- and to be clear, this is an issue with all the iOS amp sims.

    While I don't normally use a compressor with my real amp, I thought that I would try the Magic Death Eye because i had heard a demo by @flo26 in which he used it -- and I recalled a discussion long ago with a bandmate (in the long ago when I was hoping to make a living from music) who was an amazing guitarist, amp afficionado and engineer who explained about the natural compression that preamp tubes provide in some ranges. So, I thought I'd see if Magic Death Eye might help with that. I felt like it did. I might be able to adjust the settings of Gain Stage so that the output sounds the same, but the feel improved for me with it in.

    If that "I don't know what" were inherent in Gain Stage that would be great, but it might be a tall order. I'll explore some more and see if I can be more articulate about specifics.

    The feel of the amp is the main thing I spent time on when designing this. I think I can make it feel like anything you want. Its just a matter of knowing what feel you are looking for. Currently all the presets feel exactly the way I want them to feel. But the main reason for doing this testing is that I know there are other styles of music that I don’t play. If you can tell me which presets feel wrong and send an example of a recording that feels right, I will attempt to make an amp that feels the way you want it to.

    Just had a long play and was really happy with the setup and feel with the Magic Death Eye in front of it. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels better to me. One part might simply be that the compressor in front is boosting my guitar signal and that the compression is just closer to how my preferred amps feel. I captured the direct guitar signal and the result to see if I can analyze it further to give you more of an idea.

    Don't get me wrong. If I need to use the compressor in front, I will be satisfied with the tone. If we can figure what "magic" the compressor brings so that it can be built in, so much the better.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @rs2000 said:

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    No problem! How many spring reverb impulses do you want?
    https://audiobombs.com/items/1379/classic-spring-reverb-impulse-responses
    https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/free-reverb-impulse-responses/
    https://emmanuelderuty.com/pages/impulses/
    https://www.dubbhism.org/2008/10/free-download-60-classic-and-king-tubby.html
    https://noisemikers.com/premier-90-reverberation-mods-schematics-and-impulse-response-irs/

    If you feel like boosting the stringy resonance character of a reverb spring even more then add the free CuSnP AUv3.

    Convolution? How’s about latency?

  • rs2000rs2000

    @Faland said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    No problem! How many spring reverb impulses do you want?
    https://audiobombs.com/items/1379/classic-spring-reverb-impulse-responses
    https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/free-reverb-impulse-responses/
    https://emmanuelderuty.com/pages/impulses/
    https://www.dubbhism.org/2008/10/free-download-60-classic-and-king-tubby.html
    https://noisemikers.com/premier-90-reverberation-mods-schematics-and-impulse-response-irs/

    If you feel like boosting the stringy resonance character of a reverb spring even more then add the free CuSnP AUv3.

    Convolution? How’s about latency?

    I would add the IR convolver on a separate bus, adding only the effect signal to your main effect path so it won't add any latency.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Blue_Mangoo : unfortunately on the road and can't write at length. I really think you should re-consider the "a/b switch" issue. I hope you won't mind my offering some more thoughts on the topic as I think you are overlooking its importance to non-hobbyists.

    It wouldn't double the number of exposed parameters. I am only suggesting exposing one additional parameter (an a/b toggle ). Sure it increases some internal parameters, but in the grand scheme of things, the amount of memory is negligible and the benefit immense -- particularly if you are hoping serious players will use it. It is the sort of detail that has a subtle but significant meaning to a player,

    I don't understand why an A/B switch seems not in-keeping with it being AU? It seems perfectly in keeping with it being a serious AU.

    If, for example, I am using AUM to host my virtual guitar amp. I want the same button on my Blueboard or other source of control data to always toggle regardless of what base amp setting/model I've chosen.

    As a practical matter, if a player has to create two different variants for every amp tone AND be able to switch between them on the fly he/she will have to do a lot of planning and custom configuration which simply isn't a practical solution. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple thing for an app to implement.

    The long term benefit of building something like this in would be immense in terms of usability--particularly to guitar players (who as a whole tend not to want to get deep into the weeds of MIDI).

    In my opinion, it is far more consequential to its long-term appeal than whether or not I need to use an IR app on top of it. It is the sort of detail that tells a player whether the app was designed by players for players or designed by programmers. The sort of detail that would increase my confidence in what will come later if it is in version one. It tells me: these folks get guitar players in a way most programmers don't.

    I think the world of you and what you are trying to do and hope this will be taken in the positive spirit with which it is intended.

    The problem with having an AB switch in an audio unit is that when you save a preset you have to save both the A and B settings. Otherwise when you restore the preset you would only get the setting that was active when you pressed save. The other one would be lost.

    Sure, when you save the preset, you need to save both A and B settings internally. But that doesn't mean you need to expose all of those parameters or have them exposed simultaneously to the user. (As a programmer), I have to imagine with a little cleverness, the AU can internally have A and B settings stored for each preset but only display the ones that correspond to whether A or B is the current state of the "channel" toggle. For example, let's say "channel A" is active, internally you save any settings to A to A.inputGain, A.inputBass,A.intputMid, etc. When the user toggles to "B", you recall B.inputGain etc. (if they have been previously set, if not you just copy the A settings to "B") and when they make changes, you save those changes into B.inputGain, etc.

    Now, it is possible that it makes sense to have an internal setup where you have a complete set of settings that is what the user is exposed to which is really just a "buffer" settings, if the channel is set to A you load the A settings into the current settings buffer and if the channel toggles to B, you load its B settings. And yes, a preset has both sets of settings in it, but as far as what you present in the user interface and expose as AU parameters are the settings to "current" buffer.

    I hope that made sense. I imagine that you have lots of internal settings that change when you change the amp model that aren't exposed. I think with some creativity you can solve it and it would be worth solving.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    But guitarists are like children: they love toys, colored die cast little boxes at their feet. I really will not buy a real amp with all in the box. Never. So, my choice should be, just a good two channels amp, with a great cabinet section, and a great spring reverb (and the awesome mono to stereo fx). Dot.

    I don’t like the two different EQs. I like simplicity, one eq is enough for my taste, apart when you use a 2 channels amp. I miss the presence knob, but I’m a quite old style guy.

    I don’t like a “all around” amp emu either. I prefer one single kind of amp per app. I don’t know if you know the Kuassa amps in the desktop world. I love their implementations. One plugin for clean, one for crunch, one for heavy sounds. They look awesome, costs fairly and sound great. I’d love to have something similar on iOS.

    This is kind of difficult to explain. I don’t want it to be a standalone guitar rig. I want it to be a complete amp. When you plug in to an amp its totally normal to use effects pedals with it. The same is true of Gain Stage. But its not normal to have a guitar amp and need to reamp it into a second amp before it sounds good enough to play. Similarly, If Gain Stage doesn’t sound good without a second amp plugin or a second stage of cabinet IR, then I want to fix that.

    I agree. If you want a complete amp, it can’t be good for everything. No jazz and trash metal with the same machine, imho. As I said I love the Kuassa solution, as I loved the Softube solution, or the Plugin Alliance ones (without their prices....)
    A very good amp with his cabinet and a spring reverb.
    One channel for clean/crunch, one channel for high gain, and the double eq makes sense here.
    Then, you could add as many in-apps presets as you want, to cover specific genres, and the customers will buy just the ones they need.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    @rs2000 said:

    @Faland said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Faland said:
    Well, I tried it a lot today, and I have mixed feelings about it. Apart from the cabinet question just reported from others, I think you need to implement a few more fxs if you want a “standalone” app for guitarists. I can’t live without a good tape delay, a comp, a chorus, an overdrive, a tremolo, and a spring reverb. iOS totally lacks of a decent spring reverb.

    No problem! How many spring reverb impulses do you want?
    https://audiobombs.com/items/1379/classic-spring-reverb-impulse-responses
    https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/free-reverb-impulse-responses/
    https://emmanuelderuty.com/pages/impulses/
    https://www.dubbhism.org/2008/10/free-download-60-classic-and-king-tubby.html
    https://noisemikers.com/premier-90-reverberation-mods-schematics-and-impulse-response-irs/

    If you feel like boosting the stringy resonance character of a reverb spring even more then add the free CuSnP AUv3.

    Convolution? How’s about latency?

    I would add the IR convolver on a separate bus, adding only the effect signal to your main effect path so it won't add any latency.

    Nice tip, thanks. I’ll try it.

  • kgmessierkgmessier

    @flo26 said:
    @Blue_Mangoo ,as you asked...
    A demo in which i use your app as a booster with a marshall plexi (vstomp hd).
    A without and with comparison.
    I use several of your presets.
    A little bit off topic but....

    Is this using the room reverb built into Gain Stage, or are you using something else for reverb?

  • mistercharliemistercharlie

    The trouble with us guitarists is that we just want everything to sound like ‘our’ tone. If an amp sim can’t do that, then it’s considered a failure.

    However, you all already have a setup that gives you that tone. Plus, who needs yet another deluxe reverb sim?

    I dig Gain Stage for doing something genuinely new on iOS. I also like that it has a handful of presets, and minimal tweaking. I don’t need to spend half a day dialing in “my” tone all over again. Tweaking is valid, but then it’s better to try BIAS Amp and BIAS FX.

  • kgmessierkgmessier

    @mistercharlie said:...but then it’s better to try BIAS Amp and BIAS FX.

    Those apps, however, are not AUv3. The biggest boon with Gain Stage is that it is!

  • rs2000rs2000

    @kgmessier said:

    @mistercharlie said:...but then it’s better to try BIAS Amp and BIAS FX.

    Those apps, however, are not AUv3. The biggest boon with Gain Stage is that it is!

    Indeed. And you will want to add more effects anyway, so an AUv3 host like apeMatrix or AUM is a good place for them.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Here is a little peak at how I've got it set up:

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @espiegel123 said:
    Here is a little peak at how I've got it set up:

    That sounds pretty good IMO. I think the oversampling makes a big difference to the highs.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    ...snip...snip

    However, at this beta testing stage, I want to identify places where we need to improve the plugin before release. So if you are using magic death eye not as a compressor but as a way to “fix” something that isnt right about the amp tone, then I would like to hear an example of the sound you are trying to get so I can get something like it added into the app.

    Keep in mind that because I had limited time to play (1 to 2 hours), I didn't fully explore whether I could get what I needed strictly by tweaking Gain Stage with nothing else in-line. So, what I am about to say might change given more time to tweak.

    My initial impression before adding Magic Death Eye was that things sounded pretty good on first listen but the "feel" for a lack of a better word was not what I look for in an amp. I can't quite put my finger on it (and to be clear: none of the amp sims has that "it" yet), but the relationship between how hard I was picking and the resulting variation in tone and grit. I am not saying it was bad just different from my personal preference -- and to be clear, this is an issue with all the iOS amp sims.

    While I don't normally use a compressor with my real amp, I thought that I would try the Magic Death Eye because i had heard a demo by @flo26 in which he used it -- and I recalled a discussion long ago with a bandmate (in the long ago when I was hoping to make a living from music) who was an amazing guitarist, amp afficionado and engineer who explained about the natural compression that preamp tubes provide in some ranges. So, I thought I'd see if Magic Death Eye might help with that. I felt like it did. I might be able to adjust the settings of Gain Stage so that the output sounds the same, but the feel improved for me with it in.

    If that "I don't know what" were inherent in Gain Stage that would be great, but it might be a tall order. I'll explore some more and see if I can be more articulate about specifics.

    The feel of the amp is the main thing I spent time on when designing this. I think I can make it feel like anything you want. Its just a matter of knowing what feel you are looking for. Currently all the presets feel exactly the way I want them to feel. But the main reason for doing this testing is that I know there are other styles of music that I don’t play. If you can tell me which presets feel wrong and send an example of a recording that feels right, I will attempt to make an amp that feels the way you want it to.

    Just had a long play and was really happy with the setup and feel with the Magic Death Eye in front of it. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels better to me. One part might simply be that the compressor in front is boosting my guitar signal and that the compression is just closer to how my preferred amps feel. I captured the direct guitar signal and the result to see if I can
    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Blue_Mangoo : unfortunately on the road and can't write at length. I really think you should re-consider the "a/b switch" issue. I hope you won't mind my offering some more thoughts on the topic as I think you are overlooking its importance to non-hobbyists.

    It wouldn't double the number of exposed parameters. I am only suggesting exposing one additional parameter (an a/b toggle ). Sure it increases some internal parameters, but in the grand scheme of things, the amount of memory is negligible and the benefit immense -- particularly if you are hoping serious players will use it. It is the sort of detail that has a subtle but significant meaning to a player,

    I don't understand why an A/B switch seems not in-keeping with it being AU? It seems perfectly in keeping with it being a serious AU.

    If, for example, I am using AUM to host my virtual guitar amp. I want the same button on my Blueboard or other source of control data to always toggle regardless of what base amp setting/model I've chosen.

    As a practical matter, if a player has to create two different variants for every amp tone AND be able to switch between them on the fly he/she will have to do a lot of planning and custom configuration which simply isn't a practical solution. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple thing for an app to implement.

    The long term benefit of building something like this in would be immense in terms of usability--particularly to guitar players (who as a whole tend not to want to get deep into the weeds of MIDI).

    In my opinion, it is far more consequential to its long-term appeal than whether or not I need to use an IR app on top of it. It is the sort of detail that tells a player whether the app was designed by players for players or designed by programmers. The sort of detail that would increase my confidence in what will come later if it is in version one. It tells me: these folks get guitar players in a way most programmers don't.

    I think the world of you and what you are trying to do and hope this will be taken in the positive spirit with which it is intended.

    The problem with having an AB switch in an audio unit is that when you save a preset you have to save both the A and B settings. Otherwise when you restore the preset you would only get the setting that was active when you pressed save. The other one would be lost.

    Sure, when you save the preset, you need to save both A and B settings internally. But that doesn't mean you need to expose all of those parameters or have them exposed simultaneously to the user. (As a programmer), I have to imagine with a little cleverness, the AU can internally have A and B settings stored for each preset but only display the ones that correspond to whether A or B is the current state of the "channel" toggle. For example, let's say "channel A" is active, internally you save any settings to A to A.inputGain, A.inputBass,A.intputMid, etc. When the user toggles to "B", you recall B.inputGain etc. (if they have been previously set, if not you just copy the A settings to "B") and when they make changes, you save those changes into B.inputGain, etc.

    Now, it is possible that it makes sense to have an internal setup where you have a complete set of settings that is what the user is exposed to which is really just a "buffer" settings, if the channel is set to A you load the A settings into the current settings buffer and if the channel toggles to B, you load its B settings. And yes, a preset has both sets of settings in it, but as far as what you present in the user interface and expose as AU parameters are the settings to "current" buffer.

    I hope that made sense. I imagine that you have lots of internal settings that change when you change the amp model that aren't exposed. I think with some creativity you can solve it and it would be worth solving.

    This is doable. But then when you restore a preset, it only loads one set of settings, not both A and B. I’m afraid that could cause confusion.

  • SkyblazerSkyblazer

    @Blue_Mangoo I've always been a big fan of your apps, especially Velocity Keyboard, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to participate in this beta. In terms of achieving the vision you set out to accomplish here, the sound engine is good, and I support your minimalist approach in terms of the number of amp models. I can't say that any one preset "isn't good" because guitar tone is very subjective, but I do think the selection would be more well-rounded if some presets were tweaked.

    I compared Gain Stage side-by-side with some other amp sims, and in general, the presets in Gain Stage seem to have less treble. When I'm playing near the bridge, it sounds a bit muffled, even on the "punchy country" or "sweet humbucker" settings.

    "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic is a good example of lead guitar, occupying the frequency range I'm talking about. It's just a simple overdriven tube tone, so the Gain Stage engine should be great for that, but neither of the blues presets really allow the guitar to "scream", and I think it's just because of the EQ.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @espiegel123 said:
    Here is a little peak at how I've got it set up:

    That does sound nice. What pickup is that? Neck humbucker?

    It sounds like you are close to a larry carlton sound, like the one you suggested on Kid charlemagne. Would it work if I just get something that sounds like that in the amp?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    ...snip...snip

    However, at this beta testing stage, I want to identify places where we need to improve the plugin before release. So if you are using magic death eye not as a compressor but as a way to “fix” something that isnt right about the amp tone, then I would like to hear an example of the sound you are trying to get so I can get something like it added into the app.

    Keep in mind that because I had limited time to play (1 to 2 hours), I didn't fully explore whether I could get what I needed strictly by tweaking Gain Stage with nothing else in-line. So, what I am about to say might change given more time to tweak.

    My initial impression before adding Magic Death Eye was that things sounded pretty good on first listen but the "feel" for a lack of a better word was not what I look for in an amp. I can't quite put my finger on it (and to be clear: none of the amp sims has that "it" yet), but the relationship between how hard I was picking and the resulting variation in tone and grit. I am not saying it was bad just different from my personal preference -- and to be clear, this is an issue with all the iOS amp sims.

    While I don't normally use a compressor with my real amp, I thought that I would try the Magic Death Eye because i had heard a demo by @flo26 in which he used it -- and I recalled a discussion long ago with a bandmate (in the long ago when I was hoping to make a living from music) who was an amazing guitarist, amp afficionado and engineer who explained about the natural compression that preamp tubes provide in some ranges. So, I thought I'd see if Magic Death Eye might help with that. I felt like it did. I might be able to adjust the settings of Gain Stage so that the output sounds the same, but the feel improved for me with it in.

    If that "I don't know what" were inherent in Gain Stage that would be great, but it might be a tall order. I'll explore some more and see if I can be more articulate about specifics.

    The feel of the amp is the main thing I spent time on when designing this. I think I can make it feel like anything you want. Its just a matter of knowing what feel you are looking for. Currently all the presets feel exactly the way I want them to feel. But the main reason for doing this testing is that I know there are other styles of music that I don’t play. If you can tell me which presets feel wrong and send an example of a recording that feels right, I will attempt to make an amp that feels the way you want it to.

    Just had a long play and was really happy with the setup and feel with the Magic Death Eye in front of it. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels better to me. One part might simply be that the compressor in front is boosting my guitar signal and that the compression is just closer to how my preferred amps feel. I captured the direct guitar signal and the result to see if I can
    @espiegel123 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Blue_Mangoo : unfortunately on the road and can't write at length. I really think you should re-consider the "a/b switch" issue. I hope you won't mind my offering some more thoughts on the topic as I think you are overlooking its importance to non-hobbyists.

    It wouldn't double the number of exposed parameters. I am only suggesting exposing one additional parameter (an a/b toggle ). Sure it increases some internal parameters, but in the grand scheme of things, the amount of memory is negligible and the benefit immense -- particularly if you are hoping serious players will use it. It is the sort of detail that has a subtle but significant meaning to a player,

    I don't understand why an A/B switch seems not in-keeping with it being AU? It seems perfectly in keeping with it being a serious AU.

    If, for example, I am using AUM to host my virtual guitar amp. I want the same button on my Blueboard or other source of control data to always toggle regardless of what base amp setting/model I've chosen.

    As a practical matter, if a player has to create two different variants for every amp tone AND be able to switch between them on the fly he/she will have to do a lot of planning and custom configuration which simply isn't a practical solution. On the other hand, it is a fairly simple thing for an app to implement.

    The long term benefit of building something like this in would be immense in terms of usability--particularly to guitar players (who as a whole tend not to want to get deep into the weeds of MIDI).

    In my opinion, it is far more consequential to its long-term appeal than whether or not I need to use an IR app on top of it. It is the sort of detail that tells a player whether the app was designed by players for players or designed by programmers. The sort of detail that would increase my confidence in what will come later if it is in version one. It tells me: these folks get guitar players in a way most programmers don't.

    I think the world of you and what you are trying to do and hope this will be taken in the positive spirit with which it is intended.

    The problem with having an AB switch in an audio unit is that when you save a preset you have to save both the A and B settings. Otherwise when you restore the preset you would only get the setting that was active when you pressed save. The other one would be lost.

    Sure, when you save the preset, you need to save both A and B settings internally. But that doesn't mean you need to expose all of those parameters or have them exposed simultaneously to the user. (As a programmer), I have to imagine with a little cleverness, the AU can internally have A and B settings stored for each preset but only display the ones that correspond to whether A or B is the current state of the "channel" toggle. For example, let's say "channel A" is active, internally you save any settings to A to A.inputGain, A.inputBass,A.intputMid, etc. When the user toggles to "B", you recall B.inputGain etc. (if they have been previously set, if not you just copy the A settings to "B") and when they make changes, you save those changes into B.inputGain, etc.

    Now, it is possible that it makes sense to have an internal setup where you have a complete set of settings that is what the user is exposed to which is really just a "buffer" settings, if the channel is set to A you load the A settings into the current settings buffer and if the channel toggles to B, you load its B settings. And yes, a preset has both sets of settings in it, but as far as what you present in the user interface and expose as AU parameters are the settings to "current" buffer.

    I hope that made sense. I imagine that you have lots of internal settings that change when you change the amp model that aren't exposed. I think with some creativity you can solve it and it would be worth solving.

    This is doable. But then when you restore a preset, it only loads one set of settings, not both A and B. I’m afraid that could cause confusion.

    Why wouldn't it recall both sets of settings? There must be some way of saving both the sets of parameters in the AU? If the only way for settings to be saved is if they are exposed -- then IMO, it would be worth having all of them exposed (it isn't really that many extra parameters) as I really do think in the long run that it is a pretty critical feature.

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