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Comments
Yes! Getting some audio samples from @bedheadproducer would serve the needs of a large
community of guitar players. He's a master of Metal and IOS Music Production workflows.
He is to metal what @flo26 is to rock/fusion for guitar input on this forum.
I sent a 6 string and a 7 string sample to help with the high gain amp design.
Respectfully. Do you make demo's of your work? The @bedheadproducer has legendary Metal skills.
I pinged the @bedheadproducer on his recent thread asking him to install and share his samples with @Blue_Mangoo.
It will be great to see how the world of guitar stylists respond to this approach to a guitar rig.
What I really want to know is if the @bedheadproducer thinks the latency is great on any tone preset. That's so important to conquer the Amp Sim IOS market. Even beyond Tone.
Can compare it to a real amp for latency?
Chill buddy! Blue mangoo needed some clean guitar samples to tune in is high gain amp and I sent them to him. I let other people know that he had received samples needed for the high gain amps Ike I said I would.
FWIW, my reason for mentioning bedheadproducer is that I think his input in the discussion and beta would be worthwhile. It isn't disrespect to any other participant.
@bedheadproducer is a big influencer beyond the confines of this forum. His feedback
on the forum can help. If he's a fan of the beta he will use the app and share that with others that want to play like him. I'm trying to help @Blue_Mangoo get input from the best of the best.
@flo26 and @bedheadproducer are world class players and creators. The good guitar players on ABF are all also engaged. They just don't have the circle of influence some members do.
We can bury @Blue_Mangoo in audio tracks but at some point they need reviews from the players that matter to take on Bias and ToneStack. Both of which could drop and AUv3 product at any moment and be the must have app.
Can you comment on the latency from your perspective?
Does it come close to a good metal amp for the type of music you play.
I know there are a lot of metal genres considering it dates back to the late 70's.
As blue mangoo as stated the current high gain amp need reworking. I have already commented the current state of the high gain amp.
Why are you obsessing about the latency? The latency seems fine but did not play very long because the high gain amp are not where they need to be. Next time i play i will take notice more of latency.
When the amps are ready i will give my comment. I have been owning a Peavey 5150 guitar amp for the last 20 years. This is the amp most metal guitar player dream of owning. I know what a metal guitar should sound like. And I know that Bias falls short.
I haven't done latency checks on other amp sims but after building one, I doubt there is a difference in latency between brands because it is possible to build this kind of plugin with very near zero added latency, beyond whats already there in iOS.
The biggest factor affecting latency is the sample rate. Run at 96 Khz with buffer size of 128 and you get near the lowest latency iOS can offer.
I wonder if some metal enthusiasts are confusing latency with sag and preamp voicing problems. As mentioned in an earlier post, gain stage is sagging much harder than high gain amplifiers typically should, because I didn’t consider high gain sounds when I built it. That makes it feel a bit slow and unresponsive in the bass frequencies. Some players might say it feels slow but this has nothing to do with latency.
One user sent me a dry signal recording and a recording of that same signal played through a bias amp. He said if I could replicate the sound of the bias amp, that would be perfect. So that is what I am trying to do.
I would really like to know more about what aspect of bias high gain tone you would like to improve on. I have my own opinions about clean and blues tones. But I don’t really know what makes a great high gain tone so all I do is try to exactly copy sounds from recordings that people send me.
@Blue_Mangoo Strictly talking about high gain amps this is what I do not like about Bias.
When playing in real time the sound is lacking presence realism, it sounds like the sound is coming from behind the speakers. Also their is a digital harshness/fizz when doing palm muting that needs to be eq out. Also the sustain dies down way to fast.
To get a decent sound you need to have at least 2 layers eq and compressed properly. I have managed to compensate to a level while playing in real time with Bias functionality of setting a different amp for left and right channel.
To make it clear. This is the type of guitar sound I am talking about. This is Ola playing a 5150.
This is a album recorded with the 5150 and many other studios trickery. (My and many others favorite all time sound.)
@Blue_Mangoo I have been using this Bias preset done by a user in the Bias cloud called “Peavey 6505+ updated”. It as more presence because of using the dual amp technique that is not necessary with a real amp recording. See Ola’s video.
I was talking with a friend recently and we agreed that Bias sounds good when you have never owned the real thing. That probably sounds arrogant but it’s the truth.
It seems like the goal for @Blue_Mangoo should be to match the sound of great-sounding amp tones rather than that of amp sims like BIAS though I could understand wanting to know what the competition sounds like to know what the current standard to beat is.
@Blue_Mangoo I am looking forward to receiving my Mooer brown sound pedal.
http://www.mooeraudio.com/product/-015---Brown-Sound-42.html
Some big name bands are ditching their amps live for these 100$ pedals. Playing starts at 18:25
Absolutely! That’s why I mention the Mooer pedals. They seem to be a lot better than Bias. And should be studied too.
Bias adoption in live settings as been pretty rare. Those who do, don’t seem to stick with it very long.
Many years ago I saw Lacuna coil on tour. Both guitar players were using Line6 modeling amp. They sounded tiny compare to the opening band. A local band with only one guitar player playing a Marshall JCM 800. That seem to be a récurent problem with modeling technology.
Yes, of course it’s better to match the real thing. The issue is that the way I am working to improve the models, I take recordings of dry guitar sounds and comparing them to amped sounds. I can do this using a recording of YOUR dry guitar and James Hetfield’s amped guitar, but if your guitar is different from Hetfield’s then that becomes a source of error in the model.
On the other hand, if I have a recording of your guitar dry and then the exact same recording of YOUR guitar played through an amp then I am very confident that when I match the tone I really have done it right.
So the advantage of using bias is that you can make one recording and send me the dry and amped version of exactly the same performance.
And the disadvantage of that is that the model of good tone we are using is another model rather than a real amp.
I think its still helpful to replicate sounds from bias, but it would be better if I am aware of what aspects of the bias sound are worthy of emulating and which are not.
in my opinion, none of the software emulations match these cheap pedals. Waiting for the Valetone one, about 30€ at AliExpress,, that features a Soldano emulation. Tempted also with the last AMT ones, that uses a valve and are not so cheap, but cheap enough.
Have you tried the real thing with something like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor or similar setup (a load box with a Mooer Radar, for example) loaded with nice IRs ? I’m curious about how well it works with high gain amps like yours.
It's essential to displace the usual suspects. In any genre.
Would you stop using Bias for this new app?
I think @flo26 prefers Vstomp HD if forced to use an IOS amp sim. He still uses his Rivera into a
$600 audio interface for IOS tracks.
Absolutely! I ordered that Mooer pedal to see if I could get a better sound because I am not satisfied with Bias.
Also like most I am trying to move away from IAA.
I will try Vstomp. I still prefer my 5150 but My neighbours are not fan. I live in a condo minium.🤪
Good to know. It's the usual choice for Metal fans.
Yes. I don't even check for IAA options when I select apps in AUM.
Be careful. They give some amps to suck you in and then open the store of stomps and amps.
They are created by the Ho-Tone folks as I recall. So, they would love to see you some hardware too.
I'd like to play with the Ox Box. I'll take "More hardware for $1000, Alex." I could live with the little Yamaha digital heads for my needs too.
But I'd love to have a Marshall and a power attenuator to lower the volume and get the right tone.
Like a Rivera RockCrusher Power Attenuator for $550.
It never ends... back to the safety of IOS apps.
https://revvamplification.com/products/d20/
This is the ultimate home recording amp. The Revv D20.
-20 watts all tubes
- load boxe built into the amp
- cab sim built in
- Xlr direct output
- USB with software to personalize the sounds.
And unfortunately a Fairly high price.
I will never learn:
Recovering Alcoholics should never frequent bars or hang out with active Alcoholics.
Paroles should not carry weapons or go into business ventures with criminals.
As soon as you said "Ultimate" I had to conflicting thoughts:
1. The last one I would need then.
2. This is going to cost me.
Lol it’s gonna cost you.
But only 1300$ 😉
Here is another demo of gain stage + a few other things.
Wow. I have questions. Please feel free to answer just the ones that you want to.
How do you rate the latency of Gain Stage on IOS?
How would you compare Gain Stage to the current roster of IAA Amp Sims?
and the AUv3 "saturators"?
What hardware is used for this amazing performance/recording session?
What apps are needed to get close to your signature sounds?
Thanks for doing this considering what you are dealing with at this time.
I hope the community here gives you some joy for your generosity by making these app demo's and inspiring more of us to make music the old school way... by developing your hands as musical instruments in themselves.
Anyone that has seen you play the iPad knows what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=81&v=hLLo7JNO6Kk&feature=emb_logo
You can also see his guitar technique here:
He has a YouTube Channel! Subscribe for more tip re: IOS, guitar inspirations and some great music too.
Subscribe Now! He needs more followers to justify the effort.
@McD: why do you keep asking about latency? I don't think latency has been flagged by anyone as an issue. The host buffer is probably the most important factor in latency and that isn't a function of the plugin.
@McD ,first of all,thanks for your kind words and for your help’
Making music helps me feeling better.
Gain stage latency is good.it doesn’t disturb my playing.
For me,gain stage is still not on par with other amp sims,but it has its own strenghts:
-It doesn’t sound harsh like most other amp sims (bias especially).
-the mids are really strong and well focused.This is really important concerning guitar sounds.
-dynamics are really good too.
It’s still a little too muddy in high gain sounds for my taste.It needs to be more precise and focused.
I don’t like stark.I never use it,but who knows,maybe with an update....
Reamp is good but not as a guitar amp sim.I think it can work as a booster in front or after an other amp simulator.
The hardware used for this recording is very simple: an apogee jam,my luke and that’s all 😉.
You can get these kind of sounds with almost every amp simulator.Really!
I think sound is most of all in your heart,your soul,your mind and your hands.
Thanks again!
Flo
I know why its muddy. I’ll address that next week.
There is a tradeoff between good dynamic response and tight high gain response. The more compressed an amp sounds when its clean, the better it sustains and the more forgiving it is with regards to dynamics. But an amp that sags like that sounds muddy when you turn up the gain. It needs more difference between the high gain and low gain amps.
The clean sounds are fine in terms of sag and muddiness but the high gain ones need to be tightened up. That will make them brighter and more fizzy so the adjustment needs to be done carefully and we need to re-voice many of the preamps.
Most of the current Amp Sims have terrible latency. Their modeling adds latency like an IR reverb... there is a tangible cost to using an IR function.
Good tone and low latency as judged by a true shredder like @bedheadproducer is a huge benefit for IOS Guitar use.
So, I keep driving the question to get an answer I trust.
Then I want to take this app on my iPhone to my guitar teacher and see if he approves and stops bringing a van of gear to a gig and continuing to injure his back. He's old school and won't consider new methods. "Too much latency". It takes him out of his experience of playing live and messes with his timing. It could also be that an Amp Sim sounds like a good recording... tubes and all that baggage of pure hardware preferences.