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Video: What is waveshaping? How does it affect guitar amp tone?

This video explains why some waveshaping functions sound better than others:

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Comments

  • A very clear explanation. I look forward to get your saturation app.

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  • edited November 2019

    @Max23 said:
    puh. thats a pretty long video. we are just pushing the signal more or less drastically in direction square wave ...

    Yeah it doesn’t take that long to explain it to people who already know. The point of the video, in summary, is that the rate at which you go from sine wave to square wave is important. If you can drag it out over a range of 0-60 db of gain then you’ll get a very nice touch response but if your waveshaping function goes from sine wave to square wave as input gain goes from 0 to 10 db then it will be very unsatisfying for guitarists to use as a distortion effect.

  • @Max23 said:
    puh. thats a pretty long video. we are just pushing the signal more or less drastically in direction square wave ...

    Looks, like that but the really fun and gritty stuff starts with 'fold-back' and 'wrap around'.

    Don't know the proper math for 'wrap around' that it's just something I played around with using 8/16-bit integers way back on the Amiga. (On the Amiga I just added an 8-bit amplification value to the 8-bit source data and boom mega wrap/clip distortion).

    Some people try to avoid aliasing, I love it...

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  • edited November 2019

    @Max23 said:
    puh. thats a pretty long video. we are just pushing the signal more or less drastically in direction square wave ...

    not exactly true always ;) .. this is just in case of very basic method of waveshaping .. there are other specific types of waveshaping, like

    wavefolding

    wavewrapping

    and so on ... (haven't time yet to watch whole video yet, if it is mentioned there then sorry for repeating infos ;))

  • @Max23 said:
    hehe, as a synth guy I hate this dynamic bs, usually I don't won't a louder sound - I just want a dirtier sound. ;)
    @samu have u put the graphic envelope thingy in Drambo after some source? :)

    Oh yes I have and plenty of other experiments as well :)
    Love to use the function module to mess with sources for even more dirty stuff hehe.
    The Graphical Shaper is actually pretty neat. I see it as a custom oscillator waveform among other things.

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  • edited November 2019

    @dendy said:

    @Max23 said:
    puh. thats a pretty long video. we are just pushing the signal more or less drastically in direction square wave ...

    not exactly true always ;) .. this is just in case of very basic method of waveshaping .. there are other specific types of waveshaping, like

    wavefolding

    wavewrapping

    and so on ... (haven't time yet to watch whole video yet, if it is mentioned there then sorry for repeating infos ;))

    These are very nice animations. Did you make them?

    And no, we didn’t talk about these in the video.

  • @Max23 said:
    fold and warp are way more up my alley as it gets you pretty unusual morphing waveforms. usually works best with material with little overtones. :)
    I guess the video is made for guitar ppl? thats much to crazy for them ...
    @dendy

    Yeah Izotope Trash II does this folding type of waveshaping. I bought it thinking I could learn something about software amp modelling by exploring the tones in settings in it, but alas, the fancier forms of waveshaping are indeed a keyboard thing, or at least an electronic music thing; when applied to guitar, they are of limited interest.

    Yes, the video is concerned exclusively with the question of how to please th e guitarists. If you play keyboard only then you are probably right to ignore it.

  • edited November 2019

    @Blue_Mangoo no they are from this article: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/learning-synthesis-waveshapers

    If you play keyboard only then you are probably right to ignore it.

    Don't think so. It's basics, foundation for understanding of waveshaping. If you want to understand, it's good start with basics ;-) I'm pretty sure every single one damn video you created till yet is worth to watch ;-) Multiple times. Knowing is gold.

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  • edited November 2019

    @Max23 said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @Max23 said:
    fold and warp are way more up my alley as it gets you pretty unusual morphing waveforms. usually works best with material with little overtones. :)
    I guess the video is made for guitar ppl? thats much to crazy for them ...
    @dendy

    Yeah Izotope Trash II does this folding type of waveshaping. I bought it thinking I could learn something about software amp modelling by exploring the tones in settings in it, but alas, the fancier forms of waveshaping are indeed a keyboard thing, or at least an electronic music thing; when applied to guitar, they are of limited interest.

    hm, guitar has way to many overtones for this to be really interesting and controllable.
    on a guitar it will be some boutique luxus distortion. meh
    if you do it with a sine wave or triangle the sun goes up.

    I haven’t spent a lot of time testing our saturator effect out on synths yet but when I used it with Zeeon at light gain settings it was pretty cool. If we are just talking about waveshaping as shown in the video above, that is of no interest to synth heads, but together with the other parts of the model it does an amazing job of making synth patches sound more like genuine analog hardware because typically when you get a drive knob on a digital synth it has a lot of aliasing. The sound of antialiased saturation on a saw wave is nice. But it’s subtle. It might not please you if you are looking to mangle your tone beyond all recognition.

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  • Almost missed this new @Blue_Mangoo video since it rolled off the front page.

  • @Max23 said:
    puh. thats a pretty long video. we are just pushing the signal more or less drastically in direction square wave ...

    "Just" implies that it is a lot simpler than it is. Subtle differences in transformations has a huge impact on what we perceive -- some people care about such differences more than others. But there is a reason that guitar players often go through a large number of distortion pedals, amps, guitars and pickups as they try to get the distortion characteristics that speak to them -- while there are some people to whom all distortion sounds the same.

    Same is true of wavefolding. To some people all wavefolders sound the same while there are others that find some radically more satisfying than others even if the appearance on an oscilliscope seems quite similar.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2019

    Fruity WaveShaper (part of Image-Line FL Studio for PC/Mac), is one of the coolest wave shapers I've ever used because it lets you create your own wave shaping contours. There's a really good video showing how it works, and with some really good explanation of different types of wave distortion, on this page: https://www.image-line.com/support/flstudio_online_manual/html/plugins/Fruity WaveShaper.htm.

    I would Love to have something like this on iOS.

    That video has the one of the best description of some of the types of wave distortion I've seen.

  • edited November 2019
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  • @wim said:
    Fruity WaveShaper (part of Image-Line FL Studio for PC/Mac), is one of the coolest wave shapers I've ever used because it lets you create your own wave shaping contours. There's a really good video showing how it works, and with some really good explanation of different types of wave distortion, on this page: https://www.image-line.com/support/flstudio_online_manual/html/plugins/Fruity WaveShaper.htm.

    I would Love to have something like this on iOS.

    That video has the one of the best description of some of the types of wave distortion I've seen.

    I've done this in Audulus a while ago. Needs some zooming and sensitive fingers but works well.
    I wish Audulus was an AU.

    Here's the nodes I've used:

  • Good one @rs2000 - I would have never thought of doing that.

  • @wim said:
    Good one @rs2000 - I would have never thought of doing that.

    Maybe you'd like to try this for yourself, at least Audulus can be used as IAA or as an effect in AB3.
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/708243/#Comment_708243

  • Sssshhhhh...

    I'm hoping that my subtle hint to @Blue_Mangoo to do something similar with the upcoming wave shaper app or another will take hold.

  • @Blue_Mangoo Have you explored Airwindows' approach to saturation algos? Your attention to functions that make a gradual transition into clipping (and e.g. your emphasis on the importance of power sag) reminds me of some of Chris' discussions.

    I really like your way of making the core concepts behind amp modelling approachable, and practically applicable. Keep these coming!!

    Also can't wait to play around with your saturation plugin!

  • @ohwell said:
    Also can't wait to play around with your saturation plugin!

    Don't wait. Use the built-in AUM Saturator to master the fine tuning of EQ's.
    There are also a lot of EQ Apps.

    I'm going to try making a tone with the @Blue_Mangoo EQ and settings (from the John Mayer video) and make another channel using the EQ features of AUM for the
    Low and High Filters and the 1-2 mid-frequency bumps just to see if the essential keys
    for a lot of tone shaping exist in AUM without extras.

    This is a type of ear training... hear a tone and know how to it in with EQ and Saturations.

    For me it still leads to buying more precise tools with better controls and displays of the
    results.

    There's probably a good discussion that can come from having and reading a good
    Frequency Spectrum display app. What's the best tool for analysis of existing sound
    streams visually. I think there's one that came with ApeMatrix that is an AUv3 loadable app.

  • edited November 2019

    @McD Oh, I didn't mean I'll wait to start using simple saturators with guitar, instead of black box, all-in-one amp modellers. ;)

    Agreed, it's extremely instructive to spend time learning how to achieve target guitar tones from simple, flexible building blocks!

    One thing: with typical saturation algos (like the one in AUM), adding EQ's is usually not enough IMO to get in the ballpark of an amp-like feel. As @Blue_Mangoo points out, another crucial part of what guitar amps do is reshape the dynamics (e.g. power amp sag) of the signal. With the typical simple tools, it's usually crucial to include some kind of compression. This is actually one of the many things that makes me especially curious about @Blue_Mangoo 's saturator: I'm looking forward to seeing how it tackles the dynamics side of tube behavior, along with the waveshaping behavior the above video focuses on.

  • @ohwell said:
    Agreed, it's extremely instructive to spend time learning how to achieve target guitar tones from simple, flexible building blocks!
    With the typical simple tools, it's usually crucial to include some kind of compression.

    This is a useful insight... I have several expensive Multi-Band Apps that can be investigated
    as well:

    FF Pro-MB - most of the apps from FabFilter seem like special purpose EQ's.
    Bark Filter
    ApeFilter

    But, the idea of a "signature" for a sound has me off looking for clues. As I recall, Pro-Q2 and 3 have that feature. I used to hate Parametric EQ's because I just didn't know what to use them for... now I realize they are sonic scalpels for audio surgery. So, much to learn and
    so little to forget.

  • @ohwell said:
    @Blue_Mangoo Have you explored Airwindows' approach to saturation algos? Your attention to functions that make a gradual transition into clipping (and e.g. your emphasis on the importance of power sag) reminds me of some of Chris' discussions.

    I really like your way of making the core concepts behind amp modelling approachable, and practically applicable. Keep these coming!!

    Also can't wait to play around with your saturation plugin!

    As a matter of fact I do follow Chris’s airwindows YouTube channel. There are similarities between his saturation methods and ours.

    Recently I am A/B testing our unconventional saturation against a much simpler method that antialiases by using higher oversampling rates instead of pre-filtering. I’m not sure if I can hear a difference or not. My ears are heavily biased toward liking the more complicated method because we spent so much time developing it; I’ll need more time to listen carefully. we will use the simpler one if it is more efficient and sounds the same.

  • @McD said:

    @ohwell said:
    Also can't wait to play around with your saturation plugin!

    There's probably a good discussion that can come from having and reading a good
    Frequency Spectrum display app. What's the best tool for analysis of existing sound
    streams visually. I think there's one that came with ApeMatrix that is an AUv3 loadable app.

    When I really need high resolution spectrum analysis, I use Izotope RX, which is not available on iOS, unfortunately.

    For most other stuff the spectrum in our parametric EQ is enough to adjust the EQ. If you need an analyser that allows you to adjust the frequency resolution, get the one from 4pockets.com

  • @ohwell said:
    @McD Oh, I didn't mean I'll wait to start using simple saturators with guitar, instead of black box, all-in-one amp modellers. ;)

    Agreed, it's extremely instructive to spend time learning how to achieve target guitar tones from simple, flexible building blocks!

    One thing: with typical saturation algos (like the one in AUM), adding EQ's is usually not enough IMO to get in the ballpark of an amp-like feel. As @Blue_Mangoo points out, another crucial part of what guitar amps do is reshape the dynamics (e.g. power amp sag) of the signal. With the typical simple tools, it's usually crucial to include some kind of compression. This is actually one of the many things that makes me especially curious about @Blue_Mangoo 's saturator: I'm looking forward to seeing how it tackles the dynamics side of tube behavior, along with the waveshaping behavior the above video focuses on.

    If you do use a compressor, I recommend putting it after the waveshaper with very short release and attack time (less than one ms). Unfortunately most compressors don’t have a release time setting that is short enough to imitate power supply sag. Our own compressor release time doesnt go lower than 50 milliseconds, so that won’t get you close. Compressors reduce distortion by releasing more slowly than they attack so if you do see a compressor with a release time that low, it will be extremely noisy and distorted.

  • So, when there are multiple tubes in a guitar amp, are they distorting in serial, or parallel?

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