Audiobus: Use your music apps together.
What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.
Download on the App StoreAudiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.
Recording iPad audio at highest quality possible, for later use in DAW?
I'm in the process of recording an album, and I'm in a bit of a muddle. I need to record some synths from my iPad into my DAW (Reaper) at the highest and cleanest quality possible.
Will recording the synths output into Auria (via AudioBus) give me the best quality recordings? AudioBus isn't doing anything funky to the signal is it?
Or, would using an iPad interface (Focusrite iDock, Alesis IO Dock...) and running the output of that into the inputs of my interface be better? They would be going through two stages of conversion, but the signal would be 24bit at least.
Also, are the iPad synth apps chucking out 24bit audio? Splashing out on an interface for the iPad would be pointless if they aren't.
I've seen the iConnectMidi2+, but the latency is a deal breaker so that isn't an option for me.
Any help would be really appreciated!
Comments
AB is currently limited to 16bit.
Okay. The audio would be a higher quality using AudioBus, compared to say running the signal from the headphone jack into my interface though, right?
As they're only synths, the dynamic range isn't such a big deal as compared to recorded instruments - so 16bit should really be okay shouldn't it?
Yes, probably the cleanest way to do it is record via AB to a suitable app, and then transfer the file into your DAW. This avoids the digtal->analogue->digital conversion that would otherwise be needed.
Assuming $$$ not too much of an issue, and you can get the sounds you want, I would go with Auria to establish the sample rate and width and hook up your synths to it using IAA. Then its the interface that is the limit, and there I would go with a Focusrite ( my personal preference)
Audiobus is the Lowest Common Denominator, not the highest quality, limited as it is to 44.1/16 for everything you route through it (at present). IAA does not have that limitation. (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody). The synths themselves are usually all running 32 bit internally for width, don't know if any of them run at at least 48 though. Not often documented.
re DAW connection, the higher Focusrites have coax S/PDIF which should be able give you 48/24 connection to your desktop, assuming you have an input for that there.
As does the Behringer UCA222, which was about £25 last time I checked. You'll need the CCK though.
I use the iConnectMidi 2+ and I don't have any latency issues, most apps will only work at 16 bits though, but I have the advantage of sequencing inside logic, and then when everything is the way I want, I record the audio from the ipad to a track
UCA222 only has optical S/PDIF out, not in. Good for direct connection to a Mac (line in there is also mini-TOS optical), but not the other way.
He only needs output but I wouldn't generally put "Behringer" and "audio at highest quality possible" in the same category.
IAA to Auria is the best quality:least expensive suggestion. Though I'd be willing to bet that 29 out of 30 of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and AB to Auria.
@syrupcore You can look down your nose at Behringer if you like, but the point is that there is no audio with a digital transfer, it's all binary.
@dwarman I'm intrigued as to how you would use a digital input to an iPad to record that iPad's audio output...
@paulb sorry, that looks way sassier than I meant it. Behringer isn't claiming to be Apogee Pro or Digital River or whatever (1). Digital audio can suffer from degradation as well - just not the same types as analog. When you're transferring 44,100 (or 96,000) samples per second with 16,000,000 possible values for each, all clock synchronized, shit happens. Even if you're Digital River. With cash (better engineers, nicer components, better circuit design...), you can engineer around some of those problems but Digital Audio is not like moving a file on a hard drive.
I'm not an audio snob and I'm sure the Behringer unit works fine.
(1)Actually, they do claim that and that's probably why I dislike them. Well, that and their constant stealing of other company's R&D.
Your criticisms of Behringer are perfectly valid, I was just pointing out that the differences in digital streaming quality are not as pronounced between different iOS interfaces as one might find in digital to audio conversion. Particularly since error checking and handshaking are pretty standard in digital comms.
No doubt that unit will be a gajillion times better than the headphone out.
Two good (quick) reads on why digital audio in != digital audio out here and here.
I appreciate that in the second one he mentions the 'no one notices a lot of these errors' part because we don't! I didn't even realize it happened at all until I hosted my first Zaireeka Party and was floored by just how off each song was by the end. Went to investigate and it turns out that, due to clock jitter, CD players dump tens of thousands of bits per song and we never notice - until you try to play 4 in sync and one ends sooner because it lost the most bits!
CD players also interpolate if they experience read errors that can't be corrected in time, so it's also possible to get stuff added. I wasn't saying that digital streams are error free, but the techniques for dealing with them are pretty universal and very few manufacturers come up with their own custom algorithms. Going back to your CDs, they could all have been using the exact same firmware and still have drifted due to some hardware causing more errors requiring correction than others.
That Behringer rig is plenty good.
Great technical detail here.
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html
I love that covered test! Says a lot, still, quality is quality
@PaulB,
error correction unfortunately is not a feature of S/PDIF, which is a uni-directional signal so there is no opportunity for signaling an error for a retransmit. Also the protocol does not include forward error correction bits. Nor does it allow the receiver to specify the clock, hence the receiver must run a DPLL to lock to the signal and (at the higher end) also run the signal through a fractional Sample Rate Converter to adapt the received sample rate to the internal DSP sample rate, since the DSP clocking has other worries and can not itself be slaved.
I was trying t use S/PDIF for both way audio between two iPads. It's a fiddly andor expensive process at present, so I'll probably wait on the 4+. I have had success doing it with Mac <-> iPad though.
Ok, I wasn't aware of that. So what you're saying is that S/PDIF is pretty much a level playing field for all output devices and that the quality mostly depends on the receiving hardware/firmware rather than the output interface, yes?
It also has to do Iwith the conducting material. Multistrand glass has much less collisions vs single strand plastic. Small radius bends in the cable also effect "quality". All in all, outside of file export, this is probably the best option for recording live into DAW that I have found and the Beri units are very affordable. The ICM+ does look pretty sweet though. I hope they don't fumble the on-time delivery of their upcoming Audio units like they did with the 4+.
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@PaulB said:
Just the opposite. Since there is no bi-directional 'error correction' and the sender has to control clock, it's more important that the sender be good (low errors, stable clock...). Same file sent Apogee->Behringer will sound better than same file sent Behringer->Apogee. Please imagine 'sound better' in air quotes.
A) No S/PDIF input on the Behringer, so Apogee->Behringer isn't possible.
What are your grounds for assuming Apogee provides a better digital signal? Usually these things are handled by a chipset bought in by the manufacturer. See the technical breakdown posted by @WMWM for details. Apogee would probably be paying more for equivalent quality chipsets to Behringer due to quantity pricing, but if you have evidence of Apogee using higher spec components, I would be interested to see it.
A) I thought about changing my text diagram to "high end digital device->low end digital device" and vice versa to avoid confusion as I only meant Apogee to indicate high end and behringer to indicate the opposite. I guess I should have. I didn't really think there was any question as to their market positions. My point, perhaps pointless at this, er, point, was that whichever device is "better" should start the show with spdif. Better as in clock. Better as in connectors. Better as in circuit design. Better as in internal component quality.
I don't know the components in any of them. While I'm sure (companies with digital audio devices spec'd and priced similar to) Apogee doesn't make their own chips, I'm also sure that the components inside of a $40 digital audio box aren't the same as those in a $4000 box (see 'better'). Though perhaps Bob Ludwig and I are being duped because I can't name the chipset.
All in all, if you are listening on high end monitors, or ultra high dollar phones, to the uncompressed wave you will hear the differences. If you are like most of the home recording crowd with less than impeccable gear it will be difficult to tell. Not to mention most music nowadays winds up mp3'd (dithered?) and played back on iPhones/Androids. Unfortunately
Also how it sits in the overall mix is critical to your choice.
But I do agree with you Syrupcore, quality is quality. 90% can be had at reasonable cost! it's that last 10% that will cost you dearly.
VIVA LA VINYL!!!
Lol. I hadn't considered even for a moment that you would be comparing a top end dedicated studio master clock device with the Behringer UCA202. I assumed you meant interfaces targeted at the iOS market. You may well have a point in your scenario, but at this juncture I think we've stepped outside the bounds of fair, or even likely, comparison, so I'm going to leave it be.
hey guys, i just got my fireface ucx sound interface, in the aim of getting the best in/out ios audio-quality available out there. what do you think about it?
from my viewpoint, the fact that this company implemented such a product to work with iosdevices, makes a big point, and opens a totally new dimension of what is possible to achieve using only iosdevices –in terms of audio quality– but also it's very interesting the multiple audio routing/monitoring options that this beast offers.
i'm so happy! this iosmusic world is starting to get serious...
@WMWM hahhaaaa i love the "Matrix HiFi's Behringer vs High End Gear" test!
10 years ago i spent all money i had in a hi-end quality sound system to listen shostakovich as if he were in front of my with two full sized orchestras. as the years passed by, i had serious doubts that those 300€ cables were really making a difference. crazy audiophile-neurotic world.
If they sold the cables to you on the basis of high frequency skin conductance, then yes, they were fleecing you.
...not only because the cables, i doubt from the hole concept of hi-end audio. you only need 3.000/5.000€ to have a decent audio equipment, then a nice room, silence and a good couch. i don't think putting another 0 would make a difference ten times better, but only 10% better or even less. there's no correspondence...
but anyway! what about the fireface ucx??! nobody in this forum gives a shit about my baby?
i would like to know what you guys think of this giant step for ios hardware.
The RME stuff is amazing, I'm sure you won't regret your purchase. Especially when AB2 gets here with all of its routing possibilities
@eccecelllo said:
Wow, that RME looks SPECtacular. Thanks for the heads up. I now have something to save up for. I found it interesting that they reference the Ipad2 in particular, rather than the Air. This would be something better suited for IAA inside Auria rather than Auria inside audiobus for reason already stated above.
Let the community know how your experience goes with this.