Roland Zenbeats by Roland Corporation (Auv3)

Jeezs · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@wim said:
Interesting.

Well, as regards @bot0vod 's question, I don't think this new tracker changes anything. You can record external audio into Zenbeats the same as you can Zentracker. I don't see anything about Zentracker that says you can host as an AUv3 AUM to record into it that way.

So, Zentracker is really just a free, stripped down subset of Zenbeats. It doesn't bring anything new to the table for a Zenbeats user that I can see.

While it is tripped down, there are some new editing features in the timeline view and in the audio editor that we'll bring to the next Zenbeats version. Any feedback on those would be appreciated.

@Schmotown said:
I've been revving up Zenbeats again after some time on BM3 and I've run into a bug (?) that I'm hoping someone could verify for me: launching Gauss as an AUv3 plugin results in a completely blank (black) window with no functionality. All of Bram's other plugs seem to work fine. Thanks. FYI @brambos @MatthewAtZenbeats

We'll investigate this. Thanks for the report.

@tahiche said:

@ehehehe said:

Somehow they've managed to make this even uglier than ZB.

😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏 it certainly wasn’t easy!.
But, you know what?. I’d be disappointed if they redesigned ZB and make it modern and slick like NS2 kind of… I want it to keep being just a tad ugly. That’s part of our relationship.
I have mentioned before that itd be a great idea to open up customization via CSS, like Atom2 did. Instead of trying to please everyone let them do their own skins…

Curious to hear details on what's "uglier" about Zentracker.

I quickly check Zentracker,

Dunno if it is a bug when you add a crossfade at the end of a sample and another at the start of the next sample if you overlap the two sample the crossfade doesn't work but fade out the first sample then fade in the next sample.
If it is possible to correct that it'll be useful.

Also I'm still missing the track routing to route the output of track or a bus into another.

Thanks

brambos · October 2021

@Schmotown said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@Schmotown said:
I've been revving up Zenbeats again after some time on BM3 and I've run into a bug (?) that I'm hoping someone could verify for me: launching Gauss as an AUv3 plugin results in a completely blank (black) window with no functionality. All of Bram's other plugs seem to work fine. Thanks. FYI @brambos @MatthewAtZenbeats

We'll investigate this. Thanks for the report.

Thanks @MatthewAtZenbeats. I checked again today and got the same result. Everything else is working well.

I just tried on a number of devices. I could indeed reproduce it with Zenbeats on iPhone 11 with iOS15.1 (all other devices worked as expected). Interestingly the plugin did not crash, it just doesn’t display the GUI. I don’t have my dev/debugging tools at hand now so I can’t check if the issue is on my end.

MatthewAtZenbeats · October 2021

@brambos said:

I just tried on a number of devices. I could indeed reproduce it with Zenbeats on iPhone 11 with iOS15.1 (all other devices worked as expected). Interestingly the plugin did not crash, it just doesn’t display the GUI. I don’t have my dev/debugging tools at hand now so I can’t check if the issue is on my end.

Thanks @brambos . Let me know what you find.

@Jeezs said:
I quickly check Zentracker,

Dunno if it is a bug when you add a crossfade at the end of a sample and another at the start of the next sample if you overlap the two sample the crossfade doesn't work but fade out the first sample then fade in the next sample.
If it is possible to correct that it'll be useful.

Also I'm still missing the track routing to route the output of track or a bus into another.

@Jeezs We don't have crossfading implemented yet nor do we have inter-track routing. I too want both of these features!

@tahiche said:

@krassmann I think it would be a really cool feature to enable users to style the UI themselves.

Is this something you might consider @MatthewAtZenbeats ?. Being able to create custom styles would be really useful. Some people like bezel, some like it flat, more contrast, less contrast, etc…

@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Btw I’m sorry if the comments about ZB or Zentracker being “ugly” seem disrespectful, which I see how it can after all the hard work you put into it. It’s one of those occasions where you talk trash because you love it, the way you talk shit to your best friend.

@tahiche No disrespect is ever taken by me. Just would like to understand so we can improve.

anickt · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@brambos said:

@tahiche said:

@krassmann I think it would be a really cool feature to enable users to style the UI themselves.

Is this something you might consider @MatthewAtZenbeats ?. Being able to create custom styles would be really useful. Some people like bezel, some like it flat, more contrast, less contrast, etc…

@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Btw I’m sorry if the comments about ZB or Zentracker being “ugly” seem disrespectful, which I see how it can after all the hard work you put into it. It’s one of those occasions where you talk trash because you love it, the way you talk shit to your best friend.

@tahiche No disrespect is ever taken by me. Just would like to understand so we can improve.

Something like changing the UI (unless there are glaring issues which IMHO the Z apps do not have) is not even on my list of priorities. Something like “fun/functional features” will provide a much greater ROI and better use of devs time. A rock solid app with the features one would typically use to make music should be the main goal. We have that in iOS but unfortunately it is spread out among several apps. Thanks @MatthewAtZenbeats

MatthewAtZenbeats · October 2021

@anickt said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@brambos said:

@tahiche said:

@krassmann I think it would be a really cool feature to enable users to style the UI themselves.

Is this something you might consider @MatthewAtZenbeats ?. Being able to create custom styles would be really useful. Some people like bezel, some like it flat, more contrast, less contrast, etc…

@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Btw I’m sorry if the comments about ZB or Zentracker being “ugly” seem disrespectful, which I see how it can after all the hard work you put into it. It’s one of those occasions where you talk trash because you love it, the way you talk shit to your best friend.

@tahiche No disrespect is ever taken by me. Just would like to understand so we can improve.

Something like changing the UI (unless there are glaring issues which IMHO the Z apps do not have) is not even on my list of priorities. Something like “fun/functional features” will provide a much greater ROI and better use of devs time. A rock solid app with the features one would typically use to make music should be the main goal. We have that in iOS but unfortunately it is spread out among several apps. Thanks @MatthewAtZenbeats

Agreed:

@anickt (@everyone)

What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

Jeezs · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@anickt said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@brambos said:

@tahiche said:

@krassmann I think it would be a really cool feature to enable users to style the UI themselves.

Is this something you might consider @MatthewAtZenbeats ?. Being able to create custom styles would be really useful. Some people like bezel, some like it flat, more contrast, less contrast, etc…

@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Btw I’m sorry if the comments about ZB or Zentracker being “ugly” seem disrespectful, which I see how it can after all the hard work you put into it. It’s one of those occasions where you talk trash because you love it, the way you talk shit to your best friend.

@tahiche No disrespect is ever taken by me. Just would like to understand so we can improve.

Something like changing the UI (unless there are glaring issues which IMHO the Z apps do not have) is not even on my list of priorities. Something like “fun/functional features” will provide a much greater ROI and better use of devs time. A rock solid app with the features one would typically use to make music should be the main goal. We have that in iOS but unfortunately it is spread out among several apps. Thanks @MatthewAtZenbeats

Agreed:

@anickt (@everyone)

What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

1 - Internal audio routing for sidechain compression and aux groups tracks
2 - Record and edit control change.
3 - program change assignation to zenbeats songs, for live use. Or song chaining could be cool too !

plopseaw · October 2021

Agreed.

1) Sidechain support
2) Real midi routing
3) Midi preview and definitely improvements to midi editor (ghost track, scales, map to chord track etc)

Actually, this is an inspiring DAW. I came from cubasis (and of course the desktop) which is really good but the workflow in Zenbeats and the musicality makes me come back to it much more often.

The drum machine and its sequencer is really good. The fact that you can preview audio loops in real time and at the correct tempo is great. The automation system is great allowing to easily select from automatable parameters. Freeze works like magic (Cubasis its a different result every time)

The look of it is subjective (I like it) and at the end of the day its about using the tools you have at hand. Even with my wish list, its not going to stop me using Zenbeats everyday and hoping it stays around for many years.

Any finally I have great experience with Ramond in support and Matthew is here actively discussing. Thats quite rare!

0tolerance4silence · October 2021

I’m not target here, but I’ll play… my list would be easy to deliver…

no account to get into the app
no ever changing splash screen for ‘whatever’ reason
colours / contrast - I mean, I personally can’t even look at most AIRA line, even now that it was dialled back significantly… is there a person who thinks it’s a winner look, the best I heard is tolerable… well, ZB is consistent on that…

MatthewAtZenbeats · October 2021

@plopseaw

Thanks for the feedback. Can you expand on "Real Midi Routing" and what you want to do with it?

@plopseaw said:
Agreed.

1) Sidechain support
2) Real midi routing
3) Midi preview and definitely improvements to midi editor (ghost track, scales, map to chord track etc)

Actually, this is an inspiring DAW. I came from cubasis (and of course the desktop) which is really good but the workflow in Zenbeats and the musicality makes me come back to it much more often.

The drum machine and its sequencer is really good. The fact that you can preview audio loops in real time and at the correct tempo is great. The automation system is great allowing to easily select from automatable parameters. Freeze works like magic (Cubasis its a different result every time)

The look of it is subjective (I like it) and at the end of the day its about using the tools you have at hand. Even with my wish list, its not going to stop me using Zenbeats everyday and hoping it stays around for many years.

Any finally I have great experience with Ramond in support and Matthew is here actively discussing. Thats quite rare!

MatthewAtZenbeats · October 2021

@0tolerance4silence said:
I’m not target here, but I’ll play… my list would be easy to deliver…

no account to get into the app

no ever changing splash screen for ‘whatever’ reason

colours / contrast - I mean, I personally can’t even look at most AIRA line, even now that it was dialled back significantly… is there a person who thinks it’s a winner look, the best I heard is tolerable… well, ZB is consistent on that…

Thanks for the feedback here. Some notes/questions below.

Account Requirements:
With our cross-platform approach and purchase syncing, an account is and will always be a requirement.

Splash Screens:
We added an alternating splash screen in Zenbeats 2.1 to show off new features. That may be something we do for next version or we could just stick with one (like we currently have with Zentracker. I'm curious as to why that's viewed as a negative. Care to explain?

Colors/Contrast:
I know making everyone happy with the default look will be impossible, but from your perspective, what are some apps that are appealing to you? Are there any color schemes in Zenbeats that are close?

krassmann · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

0tolerance4silence · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
Account Requirements:
With our cross-platform approach and purchase syncing, an account is and will always be a requirement.

Probably it’s the approach… I’m out for a reliable midi seq / audio player, editor <-> you’re offering a platform to sell content - no judgment, just not for me. Generally not interested in sample/midi/loop pack.

Splash Screens:
We added an alternating splash screen in Zenbeats 2.1 to show off new features. That may be something we do for next version or we could just stick with one (like we currently have with Zentracker. I'm curious as to why that's viewed as a negative. Care to explain?

Pretty much the same as above… it’s almost as bad as IKM advertising their hw on an app launch - again, personally not a fan, but some may actually like it.

Colors/Contrast:
I know making everyone happy with the default look will be impossible, but from your perspective, what are some apps that are appealing to you? Are there any color schemes in Zenbeats that are close?

Generally flat, dark, calm… f.e AUM… colourful where needed, yet calm, also a great example of a suitable touch interface… scaling is nice, but hardly sufficient, also colour schemes don’t help

I don’t know how to make an app suitable for all, but I know these alone are stopping me from installing it again.
/well, and the fact that after resetting my iPad I have no clue what were my login details, but that’s on me

MatthewAtZenbeats · October 2021

@krassmann said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

So to sum up your top 3

Audio routing/sidechaining
Crossfading
Multicore Processing on M1

We experimented with multicore support on the standard A series chips and found our app worked much better with it off. We'll look at it again on the M1 iPad.

michael_m · October 2021

@0tolerance4silence said:
I’m not target here, but I’ll play… my list would be easy to deliver…

no account to get into the app

no ever changing splash screen for ‘whatever’ reason

colours / contrast - I mean, I personally can’t even look at most AIRA line, even now that it was dialled back significantly… is there a person who thinks it’s a winner look, the best I heard is tolerable… well, ZB is consistent on that…

Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Jeezs · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@plopseaw

Thanks for the feedback. Can you expand on "Real Midi Routing" and what you want to do with it?

@plopseaw said:
Agreed.

1) Sidechain support
2) Real midi routing
3) Midi preview and definitely improvements to midi editor (ghost track, scales, map to chord track etc)

Actually, this is an inspiring DAW. I came from cubasis (and of course the desktop) which is really good but the workflow in Zenbeats and the musicality makes me come back to it much more often.

The drum machine and its sequencer is really good. The fact that you can preview audio loops in real time and at the correct tempo is great. The automation system is great allowing to easily select from automatable parameters. Freeze works like magic (Cubasis its a different result every time)

The look of it is subjective (I like it) and at the end of the day its about using the tools you have at hand. Even with my wish list, its not going to stop me using Zenbeats everyday and hoping it stays around for many years.

Any finally I have great experience with Ramond in support and Matthew is here actively discussing. Thats quite rare!

I think he wants to be able to route midi auv3 and plugins to any other auv3 plugins as AUM does.
Per example an AUV3 plugins can send midi to external hardware.
At least that’s what I’d really like to be able to do in Zenbeats .
Maybe he can confirm.

wim · October 2021

@michael_m said:
Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Because many Zenbeats purchases are available cross-platform for one thing. Apple ID does no good on Windows and Android.

plopseaw · October 2021

For the midi routing Jeezs sums it up well for me.

Also some auv3 have virtual midi ports like LK and helium.

In Cubasis you can see these midi ports and use them to route the output from LK clips to different instruments on different tracks.

Then one instance of LK or Helium etc can drive all the other tracks. That would great!

tahiche · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@krassmann said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

So to sum up your top 3

Audio routing/sidechaining

Crossfading

Multicore Processing on M1

We experimented with multicore support on the standard A series chips and found our app worked much better with it off. We'll look at it again on the M1 iPad.

If I may add to the wishlist:
Biggies:

audio routing +1: groups, sidechain, buses to rule them all!
A “chance” option for hits on the drum sequencer, which is absolutely stellar.

Little ones:

an option to clear everything on the timeline. When you’re recording live from clips and want to start over and there’s stuff left behind from your previous take.
More options for midi learn. Allow notes besides CCs.
Record automation from plugin ui.

Cheers!

brambos · October 2021

I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Schmotown · October 2021

@brambos said:
I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Thanks @brambos First time I can recall one of your apps behaving strangely. They always seem to work perfectly in any host.

brambos · October 2021

@Schmotown said:

@brambos said:
I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Thanks @brambos First time I can recall one of your apps behaving strangely. They always seem to work perfectly in any host.

Yep, it was a combination of an overzealous but usually safe optimization on my end and an unconventional (but valid) thing that only Zenbeats does which led to this. If this was indeed the issue, it was an easy fix though

Korakios · October 2021

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

Record AU Automation
Note/Step Probability
Sampler/Slicer

and some minor improvements such as

weird scrolling when selecting plugins
random cpu spikes when drawing automation (also sometimes it doesn't apply to steps on the drum module)
if you draw automation such as filter and want to change some section it's really painful to redraw since older points persist (maybe I should upload a video if it doesn't make sense)
I love the fact that new clips don't have predefined length , but in some cases holding the plus icon or when a clip is empty it would be nice to select the number of bars (edit maybe there is some "duplicate length" function I missed)

anickt · October 2021

@Korakios said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

Record AU Automation

Note/Step Probability

Sampler/Slicer

and some minor improvements such as

if you draw automation such as filter and want to change some section it's really painful to redraw since older points persist (maybe I should upload a video if it doesn't make sense)

If you are using the paintbrush and dragging to create automation, don’t! Use the paint brush and tap where you want your keyframes. Much easier to edit. Plus you can get Bézier curves by dragging the solid dots between the keyframes (circles).

tahiche · November 2021

Since @MatthewAtZenbeats Asked us Zenbeats users to test Zentracker since some features might be incorporated into ZB, I’m doing so.
There’s some useful stuff.

I like the rewind/FF buttons. In ZB you could probably fit them fine if they omit the “save song” text and just leave the “save” icon (change the folder one for a diskette?).
I love the popup tools. A lot better than long pressing. I really encourage to move away from long pressing as much as possible. And if there is long pressing on an element, clearly mark it with some icon or graphical element. It’s terrible to long press stuff in vain just to see if there’s something there… BUT this popup menu stopped working at first, then disappeared and I had to restart Zentracker.
the audio editor has a far better layout. Nice one!

One of my favorite features in Zentracker is that you can access the audio editor sidebar menu from the arranger. - - Also the “regions” feature seems really cool, you can choose different loops and/or parts in an audio and easily switch instances without having to copy/paste or edit again… could be a handy tool to easily add variations, drum fills…
Also dig the timeline display on top, it’s clearer than in ZB.

I just realized you can’t drag the play head handle in Zentracker. You should, specially on touch screens where you don’t know the exact position until you’ve pressed. Actually the playhead/cursor position is a bit confusing in both…

Onto design and UI… I won’t go (again) into what’s ugly or not. I don’t like the color options. For me the 2 options are “Too much contrast” (night theme) or “waaaay too much contrast” (daylight theme). I can identify at first look 6 different shades of gray plus the orange icon on selected track (why orange?) , the color of the tracks… IMO it’s not “glued”, seems a bit arbitrary in what color goes where…. Why is the “solo” button a different gray than the automation one?. If it’s on purpose, it’s not “different enough” to point out relevance or action type….

So there’s actually some interesting stuff going on!. 👏

Telstar5 · November 2021

I like the yellow-green and grey contrast though!

MAtrixplan · November 2021

I would like to bounce to audio freezed track from exported from PC track.
Is this possible to implement? @MatthewAtZenbeats
With freezed track is impossible to change anything.

tahiche · November 2021

Forgot to point out these Zentracker changes…

there’s a visual indicator on the track input (down arrow) of a sub-menu. Very nice. As I said before, the ui should give clues of where to press or not…
The track controls “expander” also features a little arrow, a lot clearer as to what It does than in ZB.
The “auto zoomer” (bottom right) feature is very handy when you’re zoomed in a detail and want to get back quickly to a global view.
I like how the “track, fx and send” views are separated and ready available via the sidebar buttons, and how that is consistent in the mixer view.

Again, more on design choices that I don’t quite get…

If everything is 2D… Why is the track fader 3D?. It’s little details like this that make it look less coherent.
there’s an outer ring on the pan knob that’s exactly the same color and width as the knob indicator itself. To me it just adds clutter. Plus it’s a different border width than the other ui buttons (for which I don’t see the need for a border anyway).
This is probably subjective, but when you add up all these little things it makes the app less “cohesive”. And this is the same with ZB. And again, this is not a matter of ugly or not.
I’m probably insisting too much, but being able to personalize the ui (css theme) would take care of some of these things…

michael_m · November 2021

@wim said:

@michael_m said:
Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Because many Zenbeats purchases are available cross-platform for one thing. Apple ID does no good on Windows and Android.

Ah, right. I didn’t even think about other platforms.

DMfan · November 2021

@tahiche said:
Forgot to point out these Zentracker changes…

there’s a visual indicator on the track input (down arrow) of a sub-menu. Very nice. As I said before, the ui should give clues of where to press or not…

The track controls “expander” also features a little arrow, a lot clearer as to what It does than in ZB.

The “auto zoomer” (bottom right) feature is very handy when you’re zoomed in a detail and want to get back quickly to a global view.

I like how the “track, fx and send” views are separated and ready available via the sidebar buttons, and how that is consistent in the mixer view.

Again, more on design choices that I don’t quite get…

If everything is 2D… Why is the track fader 3D?. It’s little details like this that make it look less coherent.

there’s an outer ring on the pan knob that’s exactly the same color and width as the knob indicator itself. To me it just adds clutter. Plus it’s a different border width than the other ui buttons (for which I don’t see the need for a border anyway).
This is probably subjective, but when you add up all these little things it makes the app less “cohesive”. And this is the same with ZB. And again, this is not a matter of ugly or not.
I’m probably insisting too much, but being able to personalize the ui (css theme) would take care of some of these things…

I find both of your posts very spot on about looks and functions.

+1

Aiming for better functionality and a more cohesive look making the UI look more ”pro” is IMO though far more important than personalizing the UI.

/DMfan🇸🇪

MatthewAtZenbeats · November 2021

Thanks @Everyone This is immensely helpful!

Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

Roland Zenbeats by Roland Corporation (Auv3)

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