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The Secret Meeting that Changed Rap Music and Destroyed a Generation

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Comments

  • edited September 2019

    @LinearLineman said:
    @Simon, your post really disturbed me.

    I wouldn't take it too seriously... :)

  • Conspiracy Theories are always entertaining :)

  • @Samu said:
    Conspiracy Theories are always entertaining :)

    Especially the totally crackpot ones.

  • @Simon said:

    @Samu said:
    Conspiracy Theories are always entertaining :)

    Especially the totally crackpot ones.

    +1 It's quite easy to convincingly lie to a person but a real nightmare to convince them that they have been lied to ;)

  • @Samu said:
    +1 It's quite easy to convincingly lie to a person but a real nightmare to convince them that they have been lied to ;)

    This true. No one who convinced they are right ever willing to take other view.

  • edited September 2019

    It's strange how if one would look at the first few posts and the few latest posts, you would assume the whole thread was based on this fake news conspiracy theory and miss the meaningful discussion @DCJ was trying to bring up.

    I may be white, but what I'm about to say may shock people coming from a person like me. I'm not going to be as polite. Promoting "colour blindness" is a form of privilege, a comfortable safe space for white people to deny the difference of how society views them vs how it views Black people if you will. "Colour blindness" denies Black people the chance to express their views and experiences of how society perceives them, and whenever a Black person IS able to express their views and experiences, they are viewed as having a "poor me attitude problem". These "uncomfortable" conversations are very crucial in my opinion. I grew up in Milwaukee, grew up around Black people, and I understand what @DCJ was talking about.

    I witnessed social racism first hand. For instance, whenever someone White committed a crime, they were rightfully viewed as a criminal, but the group think was "this was one person who committed a crime". Whenever a Black person committed a crime, they were rightfully viewed as a criminal, but the group think was "most Black people are like this". Something's not right here. I understand what @DCJ was talking about.

    Then White folks go on about how "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. solved racism in our country". What they fail to understand is the Civil Rights Movement didn't end with "I Have a Dream", it grew legs and took off further after that speech, but to this day Black people are still struggling to be viewed the same as anybody else. I understand what @DCJ was talking about.

    In regards to hip-hop, it started as an artform for Black people to make their voices heard when their voices were otherwise ignored. Sure it's "impolite", but what else would you expect from a group of people constantly marginalised by society at large? Hip-Hop has exploded into a very diverse genre, but let's not forget the roots of how Hip-Hop was born nor why the genre was born.

    All the original poster's article does is confuse the whole damned issue of what Black people actually struggle with daily. Social racism hasn't gone away. It's still a prevalent and pervasive issue.

    @DCJ , I hope I didn't step out of line here. If you wish to correct me, you got the right to do so. There's still so much for me to learn. If you wanna expand upon what I said, go for it. People need to understand that this isn't about racially dividing people but rather one group of people still seeking social equality after all these years. These types of uncomfortable conversations should be had in order to unite people equally. This may be a music forum, but I'd like to think of all of us as mature enough to hold such a conversation.

  • @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    It's strange how if one would look at the first few posts and the few latest posts, you would assume the whole thread was based on this fake news conspiracy theory and miss the meaningful discussion @DCJ was trying to bring up.

    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

  • @Simon said:
    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

    @Simon Astute observer.

    What black to one is white to other. All see from own perspective.

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @UnoWoo, I think you are missing the point of the article. @Simon, your post really disturbed me. For once I truly wish this was just a tech forum.

    I know eh? Art is evil.

  • @AudioGus, both evil and art no no limits. In that way, I guess, they are equivalents.

  • edited September 2019

    @LinearLineman said:
    @AudioGus, both evil and art no no limits. In that way, I guess, they are equivalents.

    Goodness, kindness, love also have no limit.

  • @UnoWoo said:

    @Simon said:
    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

    @Simon Astute observer.

    What black to one is white to other. All see from own perspective.

    if only that were the case, the golden rule exist because there exist black and white that all can see from any perspective. For example, to be discriminated against for the color of your skin is not smiled upon by anyone except by one doing such discrimination to another, but even the one discriminating doesn't want to be discriminated against in the same way, in this we are unified.... detractors would have you think it's complicated but it really isn't.

  • I just want to say I appreciate your comments @jwmmakerofmusic and @DCJ

    Not because you’re white or because I agree with everything you wrote but I appreciate your thoughtfulness and the part of your spirit that compelled you to seek clarity on a very nuanced POV that as you’ve stated...is largely invisible to most people....EVEN MANY BLACKS.

  • @kobamoto said:
    if only that were the case, the golden rule exist because there exist black and white that all can see from any perspective.

    Everyone see black and white, true. Whether we let such thing define how we treat others, up to individual. :)

  • @UnoWoo said:

    @kobamoto said:
    if only that were the case, the golden rule exist because there exist black and white that all can see from any perspective.

    Everyone see black and white, true. Whether we let such thing define how we treat others, up to individual. :)

    agreed, but how we treat ourselves is as important as how we treat others for example, what hatred lives in one mans heart is between him and the universe, but the hatred that lives outside of one mans heart is between him and every other man as we are all connected. This is why I accept racism 100% and reject institutionalized racism 300%

  • The article may be a load, but it is totally plausible, perhaps even probable.
    White Authority has been sticking it to Black Society in America for as long as there have been Black people in America.
    Media has always played a main role in keeping Black Americans down. It is not just used to sow prejudice towards Black people, but it also affects how Black people view themselves.
    Hip-hop was a positive movement, born in minority communities, trying to elevate the lives and minds of the youth of these same communities.
    The positive message started to spread into the mainstream of American society. This could be seen as a threat to White Authority. So they set out to turn the positive into negative, the beautiful into the ugly, the knowledge into hopeless ignorance, community spirit into selfishness. They seen to have succeeded.

    Sure, it could all just be a conspiracy theory in that article, in regards to some secret agenda. But considering history, and the terrible, extreme lengths White Authority has gone to in order to keep Black Americans powerless and struggling, what is described in the article is within the realm of possible, and pretty tame when you consider that they used to publicly brutalize, torture, and murder Black people to keep them in line.

    Come to think of it, the murdering is still going on to this day.

  • @jwmmakerofmusic I could not find any issues with what you said. It’s honestly more important for white people to not only understand this problem, but to speak up in the same manner. Summary was on point and I hope people are listening with the intention of understanding.

    @UnoWoo I implore you to do some digging. A little research will prove that color matters more for those with it and not because of how they see the world, but how the world sees them. Please don’t dismiss the fact of institutional racism (as @kobamoto continues correctly label it) as a problem beyond the scope of any one person’s worldview.

  • edited September 2019

    Character A: a working musician. Been a working musician all their life. Dad played in a rock band. Mom was a folk singer. Grandpa played in a swing band. They all played gospel at church. Plays regularly in four different bands and sits in with 4-5 others, depending. Not a pop star by any stretch; a working musician that does conventions and weddings and Friday night cover band gigs. Spent most of their life learning and practicing the nuances of how to play many different genres so as to be able to make a living via all of those different bands. Learned the particulars of the blues, soul, funk, pop, r&b and rock. Occasionally does a bit of jazz, a bit of bossa, a bit of folk. Practiced them. Read books about them. Bought music, asked questions, practiced even more. Each honed for a specific need, a specific band, a specific customer. Each does its part in keeping a roof over their head. In a perfect world, simply exploring sound and chord structures would put food on the table but reality is reality. Their two daughters can't eat experiments. More practicing.

    Character B: teenager with cracked copy of Reason. Parents bought the computer, pay the mortgage, provide health insurance.

    They meet at a wedding. They're both happy to discover that they both make music.

    Character B says to Character A, "I don't see genre." Character A shoots him in the face.

  • @Simon said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    It's strange how if one would look at the first few posts and the few latest posts, you would assume the whole thread was based on this fake news conspiracy theory and miss the meaningful discussion @DCJ was trying to bring up.

    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

    If you want to post something just for laughs, it might be wise to both make that clear (which wasn't clear from either your posts or your responses) and choose a topic that isn't tied to serious issues.

    And, if it isn't clear to you why the original post would foreseeably result in this sort of discussion, it might be worth some introspection.

    In the U.S. (and I gather Britain), society has never fully to come to grips with the enormity of the impact of slavery and the attitudes that allowed slavery to happen in the first place. Those attitudes have persisted long after the end of slavery. And the enormity of the horror is something that society and school histories aren't prepared to deal with. Many live in this dream world where civil rights have happened and we've moved and racism is seen as something occasional and inconvenient rather than toxic and persistent.

    Institutional racism (as bad as it is) is just the tip of the iceberg.

  • @syrupcore said:
    Character A: a working musician. Been a working musician all their life. Dad played in a rock band. Mom was a folk singer. Grandpa played in a swing band. They all played gospel at church. Plays regularly in four different bands and sits in with 4-5 others, depending. Not a pop star by any stretch; a working musician that does conventions and weddings and Friday night cover band gigs. Spent most of their learning and practicing the nuances of how to play many different genres so as to be able to make a living via all of those different bands. Learned the particulars of the blues, soul, funk, pop, r&b and rock. Occasionally does a bit of jazz, a bit of bossa, a bit of folk. Practiced them. Read books about them. Bought music, asked questions, practiced even more. Each honed for a specific need, a specific band, a specific customer. Each does its part in keeping a roof over their head. In a perfect world, simply exploring sound and chord structures would put food on the table but reality is reality. Their two daughters can't eat experiments. More practicing.

    Character B: teenager with cracked copy of Reason. Parents bought the computer, pay the mortgage, provide health insurance.

    They meet at a wedding. They're both happy to discover that they both make music.

    Character B says to Character A, "I don't see genre." Character A shoots him in the face.

    I DON'T SEE GENRE :D :D :D. Perfect.

  • edited September 2019

    @Simon said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    It's strange how if one would look at the first few posts and the few latest posts, you would assume the whole thread was based on this fake news conspiracy theory and miss the meaningful discussion @DCJ was trying to bring up.

    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

    One could argue that this serious discussion has nothing to do with politics. If we were to discuss how politics fit in, then name me an example where a current/recent politician has tried to help the Black community rather than say they'll help but don't really do anything in the end. (I'm not trying to challenge you mate. Rather, as I said above to @DCJ , I still have much to learn.)

    @WillieNegus said:
    I just want to say I appreciate your comments @jwmmakerofmusic and @DCJ

    Not because you’re white or because I agree with everything you wrote but I appreciate your thoughtfulness and the part of your spirit that compelled you to seek clarity on a very nuanced POV that as you’ve stated...is largely invisible to most people....EVEN MANY BLACKS.

    One could argue that most Black people are painfully aware of these issues but feel as though they don't have a voice in the matter. This is why a lot of people think this nuanced POV seems largely invisible to many Black folks.

    I live in a mostly Black neighbourhood. My neighbours and I get along not only because I'm friendly and they're friendly but also because they know I understand full well what they go through on a daily basis. We have these types of meaningful conversations quite a lot when I bump into them. They already know about this POV.

    For one instance, one of my neighbours named Bernell is a sweet elderly grandmother. She once hired a cleaning crew to come over. This one white guy would not look at her, would not acknowledge her, and wanted to clean the upstairs so he didn't have to be anywhere near her. Gee, I wonder why that could be. Could it be he doesn't like Black people and feels threatened by an old grandma?

    @DCJ said:
    @jwmmakerofmusic I could not find any issues with what you said. It’s honestly more important for white people to not only understand this problem, but to speak up in the same manner. Summary was on point and I hope people are listening with the intention of understanding.

    Thanks mate. I hope people are listening and reading and trying to undertand too. A lot of people still won't listen, even if a white person is speaking up. Most white folks who won't listen are the same ones who say "I can't be racist. I have black friends," while lacking the understanding that having black friends isn't comprehending the reality of the whole situation in the first place.

  • edited September 2019

    @CracklePot said:
    The article may be a load, but it is totally plausible, perhaps even probable.
    White Authority has been sticking it to Black Society in America for as long as there have been Black people in America.
    Media has always played a main role in keeping Black Americans down. It is not just used to sow prejudice towards Black people, but it also affects how Black people view themselves.
    Hip-hop was a positive movement, born in minority communities, trying to elevate the lives and minds of the youth of these same communities.
    The positive message started to spread into the mainstream of American society. This could be seen as a threat to White Authority. So they set out to turn the positive into negative, the beautiful into the ugly, the knowledge into hopeless ignorance, community spirit into selfishness. They seen to have succeeded.

    Sure, it could all just be a conspiracy theory in that article, in regards to some secret agenda. But considering history, and the terrible, extreme lengths White Authority has gone to in order to keep Black Americans powerless and struggling, what is described in the article is within the realm of possible, and pretty tame when you consider that they used to publicly brutalize, torture, and murder Black people to keep them in line.

    Come to think of it, the murdering is still going on to this day.

    I completely missed this reply. You're spot on mate.

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Simon said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    It's strange how if one would look at the first few posts and the few latest posts, you would assume the whole thread was based on this fake news conspiracy theory and miss the meaningful discussion @DCJ was trying to bring up.

    I started the thread for a laugh at the wacky conspiracy stuff people come up with.

    The last thing I wanted to do is start a serious political discussion. They usually go pear-shaped on the AB forum... :)

    If you want to post something just for laughs, it might be wise to both make that clear (which wasn't clear from either your posts or your responses) and choose a topic that isn't tied to serious issues.

    And, if it isn't clear to you why the original post would foreseeably result in this sort of discussion, it might be worth some introspection.

    In the U.S. (and I gather Britain), society has never fully to come to grips with the enormity of the impact of slavery and the attitudes that allowed slavery to happen in the first place. Those attitudes have persisted long after the end of slavery. And the enormity of the horror is something that society and school histories aren't prepared to deal with. Many live in this dream world where civil rights have happened and we've moved and racism is seen as something occasional and inconvenient rather than toxic and persistent.

    Institutional racism (as bad as it is) is just the tip of the iceberg.

    I also missed this reply. You're also spot on.

  • edited September 2019

    @espiegel123 said:
    In the U.S. (and I gather Britain), society has never fully to come to grips with the enormity of the impact of slavery and the attitudes that allowed slavery to happen in the first place.

    >

    Slavery exist long time before what happen in US. Many peoples oppressed.

  • edited September 2019

    @kobamoto said:
    agreed, but how we treat ourselves is as important as how we treat others for example, what hatred lives in one mans heart is between him and the universe, but the hatred that lives outside of one mans heart is between him and every other man as we are all connected. This is why I accept racism 100% and reject institutionalized racism 300%

    @kobamoto Has good heart.

  • @UnoWoo said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    In the U.S. (and I gather Britain), society has never fully to come to grips with the enormity of the impact of slavery and the attitudes that allowed slavery to happen in the first place.

    >

    Slavery exist long time before what happen in US. Many peoples oppressed.

    I am not sure what you mean or your intent with and how that is relevant to this conversation. It seems to imply that you deny the importance of this issue.

    The history of slavery in the U.S. (which started when the U.S. were British colonies) (and the attitudes that allowed it to happen in the first place) has significant ongoing ramifications in the U.S. The U.S. has never really dealt with the immensity of this issues and it continues to be a source of enormous pain and suffering and inequality and injustice.

    Whether slavery and oppression has existed elsewhere is irrelevant to whether it is relevant to the current reality of the U.S. and whether it matters.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    If you want to post something just for laughs, it might be wise to both make that clear (which wasn't clear from either your posts or your responses) and choose a topic that isn't tied to serious issues.

    My original post said: This is the subject for today's wacky conspiracy.

    Not clear enough for you?

    As for my second post: if you are too dumb to see an article that says McCartney is evil is a joke then I can't help you.

    And, if it isn't clear to you why the original post would foreseeably result in this sort of discussion, it might be worth some introspection.

    Your condescending arrogance is breathtaking. Introspect on that.

  • @Simon said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    If you want to post something just for laughs, it might be wise to both make that clear (which wasn't clear from either your posts or your responses) and choose a topic that isn't tied to serious issues.

    My original post said: This is the subject for today's wacky conspiracy.

    Not clear enough for you?

    As for my second post: if you are too dumb to see an article that says McCartney is evil is a joke then I can't help you.

    And, if it isn't clear to you why the original post would foreseeably result in this sort of discussion, it might be worth some introspection.

    Your condescending arrogance is breathtaking. Introspect on that.

    That was a pretty big leap to getting personal. Totally uncalled for.

  • Badges!? I don’t need no stinking badges!!!... Treasure of the Sierra Madre

  • @espiegel123 said:
    That was a pretty big leap to getting personal. Totally uncalled for.

    Well, what do you expect from someone who does things that are not "wise" and who needs to do "some introspection".

    It is lucky we have people like you to point out our weaknesses.

  • @UnoWoo said:
    Slavery exist long time before what happen in US. Many peoples oppressed.

    I get that I shouldn’t be surprised that a white man taking on the online persona of a Confucius caricature doesn’t see distinctions in chattel slavery, but damn.

    UnoWoo, you haven’t transcended racism, you’ve embraced it.

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