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What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

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ApeMatrix not receiving; AB3 giving me a hard time

Hello,

I'm new to iOS music, trying to get my new iOS setup to work. I'm not new to computer music and complex audio processing hardware, but this is the first time I've tried to integrate an iPad into my music. I've read all manuals and learned how to use AB3, AUM, ApeMatrix and I have iConnect Audio4+ working nicely as my I/O.

Now I'm at the totally confused, overwhelmed, nothing-works-like-the-tutorials stage. I need help.

First mystery: I can't get the top row of receiving apps in ApeMatrix to work--I get that Do Not Enter symbol (circle with slash). Screenshot:

I'm probably missing something really simple. I've tried everything I can think of, including looking in each of the apps for where I might need to open a port or something. All the apps work fine in stand-alone mode.

AB3 isn't cooperating either. I get lots of ZZZzzz's and apps refusing to load. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That might be a separate issue, but I mention it in case it's somehow related.

What should I try or fix or change?

Using a new iPad 6, and all software versions up to date.

Thanks,

Steve
ThinAirX

Comments

  • What are you trying to send? In the screen capture above, you're routing incoming AUDIO from your iConnectAUDIO4+ to D1 and SynthOne which are both synths. I'm not sure these apps can receive AUDIO, so that may explain why these apps aren't showing anything. I'm not a Quantiloop user so I can't advise there, and I'm not sure how Loopy receives audio, so you may need to use AudioBus to route audio there - another user may be able to help answer that.

    If you're actually trying to route MIDI rather than the AUDIO you show in your screen cap, you need to switch to the MIDI Matrix. This can be accessed by the button that looks like the apeMatrix app icon - it's the dotted box with four squares in it, on the far right of the buttons underneath the matrix.

    You can always check out my EXTENSIVE video tutorials on apeMatrix:

  • Daveypoo,

    I have gone through your "long" videos, and compliment you on how helpful and clear they are. Thanks to you, mostly, I feel comfortable with the audio and MIDI matrixes and I've played around with all the functions. My immediate goal is strictly audio.

    Quantiloop (and Loopy and Ostinator) are all loopers and I'm interested (for now) only in looping audio. That's why I'm stumped that ApeMatrix won't let me route to them.

    Although I'm struggling with AB too, I've tried using ApeMatrix in isolation with AB (and even AUM) off, not running. Same problem.

    Steve

  • edited July 12

    Hi!
    The top row in apeMatrix are the audio input ports, mostly only used on audio FX. So you'll get those no entry signs if the app doesn't accept audio that way.

    You don't need to add that "audiobus intermediate out" port, that's not supposed to be visible or used really.

    I recommend using AUv3 apps as it's less complex routing. But with Quantiloop and loopy you'll be better off using Audiobus 3 as the host as these standalone apps will save inside the host session more easily.

  • There's a recent thread here https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33727/awesome-loop-deck-setup#latest
    with an Audiobus 3 preset which has AB3, Loopy and AUM, might be a good place to start, load that session and go from there :)

    ApeMatrix is great, but wouldn't be my first choice to use with Loopy.

  • I agree with @Carnbot - you may want to send the audio out of apeMatrix to AudioBus and use AB to route audio to Quantiloop and Loopy. If I need to do audio routing outside of AM for stand-alone apps, that's the route I usually take (ba dum tsss!) to get this done.

    Glad you like the videos and that they helped - sorry I don't have an immediate answer for you on this one. I can try messing with it later on and let you know the results I get.

  • Hi,
    If you really want to route ApeMatrix to AB3

    http://preset.audiob.us/TJkiDDpSw2s1zsL

    You can have up to three channels, the main plus the 2 buses :)

  • OP here. So what I'm hearing so far is that 1) there's nothing wrong with my ApeMatrix except that I'm trying to use it wrong. 2) I should focus more on AB3 for hosting my loopers. I'll check out all your excellent links and play with my setup over the weekend and let you know.

    I've read all the posts here about AB3 vs AUM vs ApeMatrix and the consensus seems to be "it depends" on what you're trying to achieve. From what I'm learning now in this thread, I'm concluding that ApeMatrix is better for MIDI and Fx, AB for audio hosting and AUM for routing/mixing (in my case, aligning with iCon Audio4+). Can I take that to the bank?

    Thank you. What a deep and friendly forum!

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

  • @ThinAirX said:
    OP here. So what I'm hearing so far is that 1) there's nothing wrong with my ApeMatrix except that I'm trying to use it wrong. 2) I should focus more on AB3 for hosting my loopers. I'll check out all your excellent links and play with my setup over the weekend and let you know.

    I've read all the posts here about AB3 vs AUM vs ApeMatrix and the consensus seems to be "it depends" on what you're trying to achieve. From what I'm learning now in this thread, I'm concluding that ApeMatrix is better for MIDI and Fx, AB for audio hosting and AUM for routing/mixing (in my case, aligning with iCon Audio4+). Can I take that to the bank?

    Thank you. What a deep and friendly forum!

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

    I don't know that I'd agree with those characterizations of ApeMatrix being better for MIDI and FX -- it really depends on both what you are trying to accomplish and your personal taste.

    There is a lot of overlap between ApeMatrix AUM and AB3 and a lot of differences. Where the apps overlap, what is 'best' will largely be a matter of which appeals to one the most and which one feels "right".

    For some people ApeMatrix feels comfortable and for others it seems totally alien. Some find AUM something that they just "get" as its metaphor is a configurable mixer that looks like a mixer.

    AB3 is very streamlined and efficient. I gravitate to the AB3/AUM combo as it clicks with me.

  • @ThinAirX - I just tried a setup similar to yours. The problem with Loopy is Loopy, not apeMatrix.

    Loopy does not accept incoming audio from apeMatrix. When I set this up with my Behringer UMC404HD in place of your iConnectAUDIO4+ (roughly comparable interfaces), Loopy would not take the audio from apeMatrix - instead, it recorded the audio directly from my audio interface. I ran the audio coming into AM through a Limiter to boost the signal, and while I could hear the audio coming through AM just fine, the audio recorded into Loopy was extremely quiet, which tells me that it was coming straight from the interface (the output of the Behringer interface is very low by default).

    Since Loopy is stand-alone, I was not able to load it into apeMatrix as an audio source (as you have it above) and then route it in AudioBus as an audio destination as we'd suggested above. Loopy won't load into multiple hosts, so that idea won't work either.

    I'm not really sure what the solution is here, however it is definitely more an issue with Loopy in my experience than with apeMatrix. As I mentioned above, I don't have Quantiloop so I can't speak to the functionality there.

    I hope that helps a bit! Doesn't sound like you were trying to do anything incorrect, but maybe the receiving apps don't work well with apeMatrix?

  • I use AB3, apeMatrix and AUM at different times. :)
    I prefer AUM and apeMatrix when things get more complex since I find these easier to organise for complex routing and jamming or if I'm just using AUv3 apps.

    I prefer AB3 when I have a more simple setup or when using with standalone apps (or standalone combined with AUv3). There's definitely a lot of overlap between the three and they are all great in different ways.

  • @Daveypoo said:
    @ThinAirX - I just tried a setup similar to yours. The problem with Loopy is Loopy, not apeMatrix.

    Loopy does not accept incoming audio from apeMatrix. When I set this up with my Behringer UMC404HD in place of your iConnectAUDIO4+ (roughly comparable interfaces), Loopy would not take the audio from apeMatrix - instead, it recorded the audio directly from my audio interface. I ran the audio coming into AM through a Limiter to boost the signal, and while I could hear the audio coming through AM just fine, the audio recorded into Loopy was extremely quiet, which tells me that it was coming straight from the interface (the output of the Behringer interface is very low by default).

    Since Loopy is stand-alone, I was not able to load it into apeMatrix as an audio source (as you have it above) and then route it in AudioBus as an audio destination as we'd suggested above. Loopy won't load into multiple hosts, so that idea won't work either.

    I'm not really sure what the solution is here, however it is definitely more an issue with Loopy in my experience than with apeMatrix. As I mentioned above, I don't have Quantiloop so I can't speak to the functionality there.

    I hope that helps a bit! Doesn't sound like you were trying to do anything incorrect, but maybe the receiving apps don't work well with apeMatrix?

    To send audio to Loopy, you need to use Audiobus. Loopy can see audio from either the system audio input or Audiobus. That is why you need Audiobus + AUM + Loopy rather than AUM + Loopy.

  • Thank you everybody for your insight. And especially Daveypoo for your technical sleuthing with Loopy and AM. I'm sure this will help others who run into the same problem with Loopy. QuantiLoop is an app, so I assume it acts similar to Loopy.

    FWIW, the reason I'm adding iOS to my live setup is to be able to loop with any or all of the three--Loopy, Quantiloop, and Ostinator. In real time and live performance. Each has a different approach to looping, and I'll be exploiting the differences to create different musical, compositional effects and layer them in real time. Example: Loopy for rhythmic background and Ostinator for ambient pads or Fripp-like long-delay leads.

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

  • Ok, now I really need help with AB3. I can't get Loopy or Quantiloop to send or receive audio.

    Compared to the trial setup I posted at the top of this thread, I've stripped out everything from AB except Loopy and Quantiloop. I have AUM running nicely in terms of interfacing with iCon4+ and managing audio in and out of my iPad. But AB isn't playing nice. I've read all the manuals and explored all the settings in AV, Loopy, Quantiloop and AUM and I've been trying stuff for the last few days. No luck, I'm desperate and you guys are my last hope. I'm doing something wrong but don't know what.

    Screen shots show AV and AUM at the same time. At different times AB shows different variations on Busy, Lauching, Grrr, or ZZZZ, with no pattern I can discern. I've deleted and restarted apps, tried different ports in AUM, and rebooted everything a few times.

    Not shown, the ports in AUM match correctly to the channels in AB.

    This is what it looked like after I rebooted everything, including the iPad. Notice here the problem is the apps not launching (and I restarted them all, several times) where before it was AUM not responding.

    No sound in or out of Loopy or Quantiloop. I've had both working in total stand-alone mode while testing with dummy sound. Now the goal is to host them so I can loop sound coming from my external instrument (through iCon4+).

    AB and AUM both crash often as I'm trying things. I don't see a pattern that might explain why.

    I had problems with time sync and MIDI clock out (to DIN2 and external gear), but I think I fixed the when I discovered that I had MIDI clock going both in and out from AB--it would jump to 999 bpm when I started Loopy clock. Works fine now EXCEPT only when Loopy's clock is running. Is that right?

    I've read about zombie apps persisting in the background. The battery on the iPad drains very fast if I leave any of the music apps running while the iPad is closed and supposedly sleeping.

    I'm running a new iPad 6 with 100gb of free space and nothing else running. All software and apps up to date.

    So, friends, iOS geniuses and veterans: what obvious-to-you errors am I committing that is causing this? What should I try next? Any theories?

    Thank you,

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

  • @ThinAirX said:
    Ok, now I really need help with AB3. I can't get Loopy or Quantiloop to send or receive audio.

    Compared to the trial setup I posted at the top of this thread, I've stripped out everything from AB except Loopy and Quantiloop. I have AUM running nicely in terms of interfacing with iCon4+ and managing audio in and out of my iPad. But AB isn't playing nice. I've read all the manuals and explored all the settings in AV, Loopy, Quantiloop and AUM and I've been trying stuff for the last few days. No luck, I'm desperate and you guys are my last hope. I'm doing something wrong but don't know what.

    Screen shots show AV and AUM at the same time. At different times AB shows different variations on Busy, Lauching, Grrr, or ZZZZ, with no pattern I can discern. I've deleted and restarted apps, tried different ports in AUM, and rebooted everything a few times.

    Not shown, the ports in AUM match correctly to the channels in AB.

    This is what it looked like after I rebooted everything, including the iPad. Notice here the problem is the apps not launching (and I restarted them all, several times) where before it was AUM not responding.

    No sound in or out of Loopy or Quantiloop. I've had both working in total stand-alone mode while testing with dummy sound. Now the goal is to host them so I can loop sound coming from my external instrument (through iCon4+).

    AB and AUM both crash often as I'm trying things. I don't see a pattern that might explain why.

    I had problems with time sync and MIDI clock out (to DIN2 and external gear), but I think I fixed the when I discovered that I had MIDI clock going both in and out from AB--it would jump to 999 bpm when I started Loopy clock. Works fine now EXCEPT only when Loopy's clock is running. Is that right?

    I've read about zombie apps persisting in the background. The battery on the iPad drains very fast if I leave any of the music apps running while the iPad is closed and supposedly sleeping.

    I'm running a new iPad 6 with 100gb of free space and nothing else running. All software and apps up to date.

    So, friends, iOS geniuses and veterans: what obvious-to-you errors am I committing that is causing this? What should I try next? Any theories?

    Thank you,

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

    Have you power-cycled your iPad. If not, start there.

    I have the same iPad and use Loopy+AB3+AUM and crashes are extremely rare.

    After your reboot, launch Loopy them AB3 and build an AB3 preset that has just the AUM and Loopy routings.

    Switch to AUM and test that you've got things working.

    Then go back to AB3 and save a new preset.

  • Yes remove Quantiloop, might be that mucking everything up.
    Also try without the iconnectAudio attached and/or increase buffer to 512/1024, is it the same result?

    If things continue not to work, probably best to get a diagnostic report from the session over to Michael. If you contact through the support link at the top, he'll take you through the steps to send an AB3 diagnostic.

  • Have you power-cycled your iPad. If not, start there.

    Yes, many times.

    I have the same iPad and use Loopy+AB3+AUM and crashes are extremely rare.

    After your reboot, launch Loopy them AB3 and build an AB3 preset that has just the AUM and Loopy routings.

    Switch to AUM and test that you've got things working.

    Then go back to AB3 and save a new preset.

    I did exactly this, except I have Loopy and Quantiloop routings.

    I took ApeMatrix out of the picture per advice I got in this thread. I'll reintroduce it in a later phase, when I do more with pure-its audio. For now, looping external audio is first priority.

    Also try without the iconnectAudio attached and/or increase buffer to 512/1024, is it the same result?

    Changing the buffer is something I haven't tried yet. I'll get back to you.

    iConnect4+ is not interfacing with AB3, only with AUM. That's my design-- to control all mixes, master levels and master effects in AUM. iConnect has been solid since I got it working; it handles the routing with my external gear and recording tracks.

    iConnect4+ > AUM > AB3 / IAA apps > AUM > iConnect4+

    I'll try it without Quantiloop for troubleshooting, but Quantiloop is an app I want to use.

    QUESTION: Has anybody else had trouble with Quantiloop in AB3?

    QUESTION: Is there a required order for loading apps after a power down? Loopy always first? Then AB? Then AUM? Do I have to restart the apps in AB every time?

    Thanks,

    Steve

  • Why did you remove apeMatrix ? Did you try the preset I uploaded ?

  • @Korakios said:
    Why did you remove apeMatrix ? Did you try the preset I uploaded ?

    Korakios,

    I did study your preset and I appreciate you putting it up. I'm not giving up on ApeMatrix, I'm just trying to take it a step at a time and simplifying so I can isolate problems as they come up. When I get AB <> AUM working with the two loopers, I'll try re-introducing ApeMatrix for the synths and drums.

    Steve

  • @ThinAirX : I understand that you ultimately need quantiloop, but yo debug, we need to try without. If Loopy gives you a problem, that will tell us something because if is one of the least flaky apps on iOS.

    If it works. Try Quantiloop on its own after a power (not sleep) cycle.

  • @ThinAirX said:

    @Korakios said:
    Why did you remove apeMatrix ? Did you try the preset I uploaded ?

    Korakios,

    I did study your preset and I appreciate you putting it up. I'm not giving up on ApeMatrix, I'm just trying to take it a step at a time and simplifying so I can isolate problems as they come up. When I get AB <> AUM working with the two loopers, I'll try re-introducing ApeMatrix for the synths and drums.

    Steve

    Ok, I had the impression that you though ApeMatrix was causing the mess ....
    Out of curiosity, does the session loads fine if you don’t use iConnect ?
    I suspect an app wants to take over some audio ports . But welcome to IAA hell.
    I think you are close enough . Try building sessions with less apps ,check they work fine , save session, quit , re-load to double-check , add another app and so on .....

  • @Korakios said:

    @ThinAirX said:

    @Korakios said:
    Why did you remove apeMatrix ? Did you try the preset I uploaded ?

    Korakios,

    I did study your preset and I appreciate you putting it up. I'm not giving up on ApeMatrix, I'm just trying to take it a step at a time and simplifying so I can isolate problems as they come up. When I get AB <> AUM working with the two loopers, I'll try re-introducing ApeMatrix for the synths and drums.

    Steve

    Ok, I had the impression that you though ApeMatrix was causing the mess ....
    Out of curiosity, does the session loads fine if you don’t use iConnect ?
    I suspect an app wants to take over some audio ports . But welcome to IAA hell.
    I think you are close enough . Try building sessions with less apps ,check they work fine , save session, quit , re-load to double-check , add another app and so on .....

    IAA is not necessarily hell. Just as with AU, an awful lot depends on which apps/plugins are involved.

    I'd initially start without ApeMatrix for the simple reason that if all these tools are new to someone, it is a complicating factor in this particular instance where AUM and AB3 are both needed.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Korakios said:

    @ThinAirX said:

    @Korakios said:
    Why did you remove apeMatrix ? Did you try the preset I uploaded ?

    Korakios,

    I did study your preset and I appreciate you putting it up. I'm not giving up on ApeMatrix, I'm just trying to take it a step at a time and simplifying so I can isolate problems as they come up. When I get AB <> AUM working with the two loopers, I'll try re-introducing ApeMatrix for the synths and drums.

    Steve

    Ok, I had the impression that you though ApeMatrix was causing the mess ....
    Out of curiosity, does the session loads fine if you don’t use iConnect ?
    I suspect an app wants to take over some audio ports . But welcome to IAA hell.
    I think you are close enough . Try building sessions with less apps ,check they work fine , save session, quit , re-load to double-check , add another app and so on .....

    IAA is not necessarily hell. Just as with AU, an awful lot depends on which apps/plugins are involved.

    I'd initially start without ApeMatrix for the simple reason that if all these tools are new to someone, it is a complicating factor in this particular instance where AUM and AB3 are both needed.

    I never had issue with an AU conflicting with another AU (fortunately).
    In this particular instance only AB3 is needed (because of loopy), else a single host is enough ;)

  • Good process advice. I'm going to break it all down now, do what I can to isolate the problem. I'll try all your suggestions.

    I suspect an app wants to take over some audio ports . But welcome to IAA hell.

    Something about audio port conflicts feels right. AUM and AB see each other but don't talk (sometimes).

    It feels like hell when you're new and overwhelmed with all the varieties of apps, ports, protocols, compatibilities, hierarchies of connections and networks. Like so many other things, "it's easy when you know how." One things for sure, in the course of troubleshooting I really am learning my way around all these apps. I reassure myself with the thought that some day this will all be obvious and easy.

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

  • @ThinAirX said:
    Good process advice. I'm going to break it all down now, do what I can to isolate the problem. I'll try all your suggestions.

    I suspect an app wants to take over some audio ports . But welcome to IAA hell.

    Something about audio port conflicts feels right. AUM and AB see each other but don't talk (sometimes).

    It feels like hell when you're new and overwhelmed with all the varieties of apps, ports, protocols, compatibilities, hierarchies of connections and networks. Like so many other things, "it's easy when you know how." One things for sure, in the course of troubleshooting I really am learning my way around all these apps. I reassure myself with the thought that some day this will all be obvious and easy.

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

    If you haven't seen the videos in the following thread, there are walkthroughs of getting AB3, AUM and Loopy setup.

    I am on an iPad Gen 6. I use the setup daily and AB/AUM communication problems are rare -- and pretty much only after I have been running a lot of different apps. And is always solved by either a quick memory reset or power down (not sleep) and power backup. Again, the need for this is very rare except on days when I have been launching a lot of different apps.

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33727/awesome-loop-deck-setup/

  • Success! mostly. I have everything working, problem solved (I hope). I have everything I need loaded into AB3 and receiving/sending from AUM and AUM talking to iConnect4+.

    I think changing the latency setting in AB might have been the trick. At some point I had ignorantly set it at 128 frames, and now have it at 512. (That's the same as the buffer, right?) Thanks @Carbot for that suggestion. I wouldn't have thought of it on my own.

    If that wasn't it, then I eliminated something by essentially starting over and loading in apps and ports ones at a time, with a few power cycles in between. I've been stress testing all afternoon, trying different combos, turning things on and off, to try to get it to balk. A few times it did freeze up, but turning everything off, or powering down, restored it.

    I haven't had an outright crash since I changed the MIDI clock--I had it going out and in the same port, and it freaked out. Everything including my Eventide stomp boxes responds to tempo changes, automagically.

    I now have Quantiloop, Loopy, Patterning, and SynthOne all playing nice in AB. I found that Ostinator was happiest in an effects slot in AUM. And the loopers all receive loop audio coming from external instruments.

    Thank you everybody for your help and suggestions. I sincerely, truly couldn't haven't done this without you.

    I'm so happy. Now on to the next challenge: binding to MIDI controllers.

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

  • @ThinAirX said:
    Success! mostly. I have everything working, problem solved (I hope). I have everything I need loaded into AB3 and receiving/sending from AUM and AUM talking to iConnect4+.

    I think changing the latency setting in AB might have been the trick. At some point I had ignorantly set it at 128 frames, and now have it at 512. (That's the same as the buffer, right?) Thanks @Carbot for that suggestion. I wouldn't have thought of it on my own.

    If that wasn't it, then I eliminated something by essentially starting over and loading in apps and ports ones at a time, with a few power cycles in between. I've been stress testing all afternoon, trying different combos, turning things on and off, to try to get it to balk. A few times it did freeze up, but turning everything off, or powering down, restored it.

    I haven't had an outright crash since I changed the MIDI clock--I had it going out and in the same port, and it freaked out. Everything including my Eventide stomp boxes responds to tempo changes, automagically.

    I now have Quantiloop, Loopy, Patterning, and SynthOne all playing nice in AB. I found that Ostinator was happiest in an effects slot in AUM. And the loopers all receive loop audio coming from external instruments.

    Thank you everybody for your help and suggestions. I sincerely, truly couldn't haven't done this without you.

    I'm so happy. Now on to the next challenge: binding to MIDI controllers.

    Steve
    ThinAirX.com

    That's great news. It is probably the buffer setting. 128k is a pretty small buffer. The smaller the buffer the more challenging it is for apps to get all the audio processed that they need to between buffer cycles.

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