Audiobus: Use your music apps together.

What is Audiobus?Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.

Download on the App Store

Audiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.

Is it cool to get app refunds?

edited July 10 in General App Discussion

On another topic, @Blue_Mangoo asked about how Apple handles refunds. That leads to the question of when is it even appropriate to ask for a refund? Obviously, when it doesn’t work as advertised. Yes, you have the right to get your money back.

But the next level is “oh I didn’t like it as much as I thought I would”
In my mind getting that kind of refund can be lazy and might actually come with a cost to the devs who work hard to bring us great music apps.

Also if it’s not cool, let’s discuss ideas for what Apple could do about it to make it better.

«13

Comments

  • edited July 10

    @audio_DT
    @MonzoPro
    @tk32
    @EyeOhEss
    @Korakios

    @Carnbot

    This thread is for you guys! ;)

    Good luck :#

  • edited July 10

    I think this is a part-cultural / part-integrity question.

    Personally, I would never refund out of remorse. Only if the item was fundamentally faulty. And a few bugs does not equal fundamentally faulty in my books.

    I have a problem with non-committal “try before you buy” purchases... especially on the audio apps being made by small independent developers for next to nothing.

    But maybe it’s because I have a particularly British attitude (aka ‘buyer beware’). With YouTube there is pratically no excuse for anyone who claims ‘I didn’t realise exactly what I was getting’

  • @Hmtx said:
    @audio_DT
    @MonzoPro
    @tk32
    @EyeOhEss

    This thread is for you guys! ;)

    Good luck :#

    Ha. I'm bowing out unless forced to respond, for the simple reason that I think this is a wonderful forum with lots of wonderful people, and I genuinely don't want to fall out with any of them. I'm happy to say my piece - which I've done - and leave it at that. I am definitely interested in knowing if devs lose out in the manner outlined by @Blue_Mangoo, though, because that seems totally crazy to me. But I've no wish to get involved in a tit-for-tat with @MonzoPro or anyone else. As I say, this is a great and friendly forum, so I'd like to keep it that way! I learn a lot from everyone and appreciate everyone's input, even if it's not my particular take on things :-)

  • Only ever asked for one refund, but I wished Apple would use it’s share to maintain a copy of every app purchased even when the the developer is no longer around, especially now they have made it incredibly difficult to keep backup copies via a desktop computer.

  • @audio_DT said:
    Ha. I'm bowing out unless forced to respond...

    ;-) I actually appreciate that, no pressure.

  • edited July 10

    @Hmtx said:

    @audio_DT said:
    Ha. I'm bowing out unless forced to respond...

    ;-) I actually appreciate that, no pressure.

    i wont be speaking here either, please can you take my name out of your post. many thanks.

  • edited July 10

    @Hmtx said:
    On another topic, @Blue_Mangoo asked about how Apple handles refunds. That leads to the question of when is it even appropriate to ask for a refund? Obviously, when it doesn’t work as advertised. Yes, you have the right to get your money back.

    But the next level is “oh I didn’t like it as much as I thought I would”
    In my mind getting that kind of refund can be lazy and might actually come with a cost to the devs who work hard to bring us great music apps.

    Also if it’s not cool, let’s discuss ideas for what Apple could do about it to make it better.

    If you run your own ecommerce store and someone returns purchased goods, you incur a range of costs from postage and packing, restocking, staff time spent communicating with the customer, to payment provider charges. For download only stores, there are some hefty hosting costs to pay.

    Apple provide an eCommerce platform so developers don't have to. It's only fair that they cover their costs in returns and pass that on to the seller.

    The issues are the amount they charge, and that the system is open to abuse.

    Workarounds could be something like the SugarBytes model, time-limited trial periods, or payment taken after 14 days so if refunded there are no payment provider costs incurred.

    Or customers could just not abuse the system.

  • If all apps were free, we could spend more time making music and less time arguing about this. see you in the bread line comrades

  • edited July 10

    Personally, I think it triggers a defensive response (to defend our hard working developers) for some of us when it seems like other buyers appear to be careless with the purchase of apps. The interesting thing is that it seems like it can be easy to just say “well it is Apple's fault for not offering app trial periods, so i'm just going to give it a go.” If a buyer really thinks there is no harm in it, then there is less incentive to actually watch a @thesoundtestroom video or peruse youtube, or find the developers website and manual, etc. It seems like an abuse of the system at the very least, and possibly even hurts the devs...

  • On another thread > @brambos said:

    Unpopular opinion: research before you buy, don’t ask a refund unless a product simply doesn’t work as advertised.

    The refund system isn’t meant to be used as a surrogate for try-before-you-buy.

    Some days I see up to 25% of my sales refunded and it irritates me to no end.

    This really makes sense and a good brief summary. Thanks for giving your opinion. :-)

  • I think etiquette would be for buyers to do their due diligence in researching. Things not working as advertised, fine to ask for a refund. Things not doing things you wish they would but that are clearly noted, that's on the buyer, I'd consider it rude.

    I have bought things without doing my research just because, for me, at the price of most apps, sometimes easier to investigate myself. I would never ask for a refund for the many I haven't ultimately found a use for. That's on me.

  • Can’t understand why the obvious has to be discussed....
    If you buy a new car and the reverse isn’t working ,wtf ?
    Ok, a car is expensive , let’s say you buy from eBay a 2A usb charger for 5€ and the charger actually supports 0,5A ,would anyone refund or not ?

  • @Korakios said:
    Can’t understand why the obvious has to be discussed....
    If you buy a new car and the reverse isn’t working ,wtf ?

    That’s not what’s being discussed as far as I can tell. More like: you buy a blue car and then decide you actually don’t like blue and you expect the dealer to take all the expenses for your change of heart.

  • edited July 10

    I think all iOS apps should have a solid pdf manual available so you can see the features it has before you buy it. There should also be a demo that you can try for a limited time, let's say 24 hours. This way you can see if the app got the features you need.. A lot of times there isn't enough info on the app and you have to ask everything here on this forum..

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • I've only asked for a refund a couple times, and in both cases it was because the app had a bug or flaw that kept me from using it the way I intended. Even when doing due diligence ahead of time, there's definitely things that pop up and are obviously a flaw that got missed. I'm cool asking for a refund if it doesn't do what the description says it should do.

  • I wonder how big a problem this actually is. This thread would have been started years ago and with a hundred thousand posts by now.

    It's Apple's system. They obviously made decisions based on what works best for them, what attracts customers, makes the most money... how successful business tends to be designed. If people didn't like it enough, it would fail.

    I think for iOS prices, most buyers are willing to take the chance on an app. We're buying the chance to play with it. If we're smart, it's after we've done some research to see if it's worth the risk. If it doesn't do what's advertised, we can return it. If it works, but not exactly what we want, we accept it and move on.

  • Totally worthless opinion, but IMO Apple should have a % threshold before dinging developers for refunds. Or a small service charge for their small costs in processing a refund. There are indeed administrative costs to process a return, but nowhere approaching the 30% cut that they get for maintaining the App Store.

    The purpose of a % threshold (Example, if a developer incurred more than 10% returns over a 30 day period) under which, the Apple and the Developer would each take their losses, is a fairer way of distributing the risk. Developers can’t be faulted for the percentage of dumb, unethical, or fickle buyers Apple’s business model encourages. They can be faulted if they produce crap apps that cause higher than average return rates.

    Pointless rambling. Like talking about politics when you live in the People’s Republic of California. OK, I’m done.

  • It’s like tipping. In some counties it’s expected, in others its downright rude.

    I don’t think returning things is cool unless there is a good reason; it’s faulty or unfit for purpose for example. Tried it and changed my mind isn’t a good reason. Or is unopened and returned within an acceptable time frame — unless specially ordered.

    But if things are different in your country that’s fine. But regardless of whether you think it’s good or not, there is a cost involved. The more things that get returned and can’t be re sold as new, the more the price needs to be to cover the losses.

  • @brambos said:

    @Korakios said:
    Can’t understand why the obvious has to be discussed....
    If you buy a new car and the reverse isn’t working ,wtf ?

    That’s not what’s being discussed as far as I can tell. More like: you buy a blue car and then decide you actually don’t like blue and you expect the dealer to take all the expenses for your change of heart.

    Ok, this make sense , but fortunately Apple restricts the amount of refunds if the customers abuse it like this . On the other hand I had zero problems refunding many apps when explaining in details what is broken (although I doubt the employee understands anything at all!)
    And don’t get me wrong , I always try to contact the dev first and wait patiently until the last day of the refund period.

  • edited July 10

    I don't think any of us have any complaints against getting refunds when an app doesn't work as advertised. in that case, i'm even OK with the return costing the developer a fee equivalent to 42% of their potential earnings. Do your best to deliver what you promised! Or release it at a cheap price if you are aware of issues and bugs that users will be disappointed with.

    The actual problem here with refunds is when people either deliberately abuse the system, or develop a mindset that selfishly and lazily uses the refund process as a "try it and return it if you don't like it.” I'm shocked that @brambos has some days with 25% of purchases refunded! He makes superb apps that do deliver as promised. So clearly there are a lot of buyers who just are lazy about their purchases and don't do the research to know exactly what they are buying. Sad situation, and this specific problem suggests it is not an Apple problem; its a user/buyer problem :-(

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • YouTube is as good as a demo for me, although YMMV.

    Doug Woods is the only demo I need to know if the app is worth it for me.

  • @EyeOhEss said:
    Like ‘I want steppolyarp or Rozeta. Think I want steppolyarp more. Going to buy it....ah damn, in use this isn’t the kind of fun i imagined it to be...I’m going to buy Rozeta instead’. And vice versa.....That’s basically what I do on desktop when I’m auditioning software against each other for purchase decision. It’s nothing to do with laziness or whatever. Just sensible purchasing...

    This.ˆ This is what I consider lazy. Of course what you describe here is way easier (probably more fun too) than spending 45 minutes perusing youtube videos and developer websites, but the cost of your convenience is paid by someone other than yourself. Personally, that makes me feel bad so I don't do it. You seem to have made up your mind that it is a good workaround... so I won't try to change your mind but I hope you find yourself in the minority.

    [this feels harsh... I apologize for that, if we were at a bar over a beer, I'm sure we would have way more in common than we have at odds so please don't take it personally].

  • @EyeOhEss said:
    And if someone gets a refund on one app then they’re likely to go buy another. Swings and roundabouts.

    This part I disagree on as well. I think sufficient research would most of the time lead a buyer to the same conclusion (buy only one app, the one they need). And they would get there without the costs of a refund from another dev.

  • wimwim
    edited July 10

    @Hmtx said:
    I'm shocked that @brambos has some days with 25% of purchases refunded!

    Sorta depends on the number sold that day. If there were only four sales and one refunded, that’s 25%.

  • edited July 10
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Refund if it doesn't work as advertised.
    Refund if it's broken.
    Refund if you'll never use it.

    I don't see the problem, that's part of business.

    I think that demos are crucial to knowing if you wanna buy something, if I demo it and see that it's what I want I'll buy it, if I can't demo it and can't tell then I might try it and get my money back if it's not for me.

    That being said I've only ever refunded one music app, not because I love everything I have or even use it, but sometimes it's in hope that it'll eventually work better, sometimes I feel like even tho it's not for me the app is genuis and I wanna support the iOS musician market...
    I feel like I can drop up to 10$ USD and be ok with letting it sit and then one day find a use for it.

    I don't think we should shame people for getting a refund tho, clearly we need a better system of trial here other than a couple guys on YouTube that just show a couple presets... That's not enough. We may need more youtubers to step up and demo things for themarket.

    I really think the devs should release videos of the app that go into detail and show it off for their customers. Doesn't haveto be long, and show the link in the app store ...There is a few guys that do it but most don't and you're in the dark so you gotta trial n error it

    I was once an appoholic and bought everything as it dropped, that process turned me away from the practice after a lot of disappointment, now I make sure to research before purchase.

  • Maybe it would be titillating to have a squizz at the ix of some of the refundunistas. Isn't assuming the deletion of the app just based on goodwill! Ooh, look, i forgot to uninstall that, but I don't really use it much lol
    If you return a hardware synth, normally the p&p is payed for buy the seller.. such as gearformusic etc, then they have to sell it as open box. Costs
    Demo aren't usually an option, so wrangling one at the Dev expensive ain't cool.
    All this for 10 quid app lol.

Sign In or Register to comment.