Audiobus: Use your music apps together.
What is Audiobus? — Audiobus is an award-winning music app for iPhone and iPad which lets you use your other music apps together. Chain effects on your favourite synth, run the output of apps or Audio Units into an app like GarageBand or Loopy, or select a different audio interface output for each app. Route MIDI between apps — drive a synth from a MIDI sequencer, or add an arpeggiator to your MIDI keyboard — or sync with your external MIDI gear. And control your entire setup from a MIDI controller.
Download on the App StoreAudiobus is the app that makes the rest of your setup better.
Devs have to pay an additional 42% when customers get a refund. Is this true?
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How on earth you could flag the slavery comment is beyond me. Did you read it as advocating slavery? If so, you'll be the only person in existence to do so, since it's patently obvious that the reverse is true. I'm not going to be flagging anyone, ever, because this is a wonderful forum and I really enjoy seeing what everyone thinks, even if I don't agree with it. Come on, mate, there's no need for such nasty behaviour. While I'm here, I'll apologise if I offended you in any way. It just seemed like a useful analogy because of course not a single sane person would say to the slave, 'running away breaks the rules and is wrong'. In the same way, I'm mystified as to why anyone would favour a solution which punishes the user and yet leaves a terrible system in place to the benefit of only one party: Apple.
@Blue_Mangoo : the apple agreement you quote says that Apple retains the rate to have the dev refund Apple's take, but that doesn't mean that they are actually exercising that right with every refund.
It would be interesting to hear from any dev that has delved into what is happening in practice. By reserving that right, they have a mechanism for penalizing bad-faith developers whose apps generate an inordinate number of refund requests. It puts some pressure on devs not to put out apps guaranteed yo be returned.
Maybe Apple is actually exercising that reserved all the time. But maybe not. Such clauses show up in a lot of contracts.
It’s hard to estimate because apps cost different prices in each country and then the money gets exchanged into the developer’s local currency at an unknown rate. We have total app sales figures but depending on which api you query to get the data, they come out differently, perhaps due to the way they count the refunds. There is probably a way to calculate it but it would require some detailed research that I haven’t done yet.
Come on guys. Play fair. There should be no flags without at least a warning first.
I feel bad for @audio_DT
Yes.
Hey, thanks @tk32, that's very kind of you - your post is a good demonstration of why I love this forum and everyone who posts here, and I won't be getting into any unpleasantness.
I read that as suggesting I'm in support of it: " if slavery still existed you'd tell the slave not to run away: 'you know the rules'". Ok, I'm not going to flag it as you've apologised, but that came across as offensive and unnecessary.
As for Apple benefitting - they've incurred costs with that transaction, so they're not getting money for nothing. They provide a service for developers who would otherwise have to build and maintain their own ecommerce systems, and they would **still **incur costs because their payment providers would take a cut from the transaction too.
Yes I think I will do that.
Thanks. I didn't mean it as a jibe at you personally. I was just outlining what I saw as the logic of your argument through the use of analogy. It just seems to me that the real villain in all this is Apple - if @Blue_Mangoo is right, the system punishes developers while offering users no way of returning an app that is either broken or very poorly executed to the extent that it is not really fit for purpose. In every other comparable experience I can think of (buying a pair of jeans, or a car, or anything else), the consumer has the right to return in these situations. It seems to me that this is also what should happen for apps, in the absence of a trial option. There are, in fact, one or two apps that have the trial option (Quantiloop does, if I recall correctly), and I've really appreciated it when it's there. Without it, I tend to be very careful about what apps I buy because, well, I'm not a rich man. As for Apple, they have the refund option but it's not exactly widely know, in my experience. Indeed, in the past I've purchased apps that didn't even load but I didn't even know of a refund option. In those cases, I've had to spend money on something that literally didn't work at all. This is why I think the refund option is useful but very much a bad solution - Apple should let us trial apps so that neither the buyer nor the developer are punished (I'm aware that iOS has lots of indie developers, which, for me, is one of the reasons that makes the platform so exciting). From what @Blue_Mangoo points to, it seems Apple have secured advantages for themselves at the expense of everyone else - quite literally.
I'm finding myself in the weird position of defending a multi billion dollar company...but they're not the villans though. If you return a pair of jeans there's a big cost to the company that has sold them. Transactions - even if they are refunded, cost time and money to the company selling the product. Apple run a marketplace and incur costs when selling/refunding apps, so if there is a fault with a product that has been placed on their store by a seller, it's not fair Apple should bear the brunt of costs involved in refunding the customer.
The issue is with customers refunding apps that work as advertised, and abusing the system.
Sorry we are no help! 😂😥
this is such an interesting aspect of iOS App sales, I hope you get some clear answers and let us know.
The problem with the clause is that is ambiguous, Apple I think would ‘cost in’ the factor of returning an App when it decided what it’s own cut would be.
In my time with iOS I returned two apps. Miroslav Philharmonik and MitoSynth. So maybe a 1% return rate. Miroslav was, to me, not as advertised... but that was subjective. If IK had to pay the service charge should I care? It’s a pretty big company and it wasn’t the first time I was dissatisfied with them. MitoSynth didn't Play a midi track (midi in?), so it is not useful in my way of doing stuff. But maybe I misread the description. If a small dev has to pay 42% I will certainly think twice about it.
The third case is uninteresting. I bought Bassalicious and it never worked right. But I like the dev so I didn’t ask for a refund. Then I bought PureSynth with the same stuttering and noise. I was about to return it when both Cubasis and GospelMusicians updated. Problem totally solved! Still, before that I would have been within my rights to ask for a refund for both... unless it was totally Cubasis’ problem... but they disclaim third party apps! So it can be pretty confusing, you must agree.
That's not the system.
"iTunes Store purchases might be eligible for a refund if the item doesn't work as expected or can't be used."
You're not returning the app though are you? It remains on your device.
It's the customers fault if they refund an app that works as advertised. The refund system is in place to protect customers from purchases that don't work, not for getting free apps, and developers pay a price each timeyou do that.
@MonzoPro, not sure if the app remains or not... I uninstalled both my returns after getting a refund and they do not appear on my “purchased” list, so I think Apple or the dev may remove it.
If you uninstall them you can't redownload them - if you don't, they stay on your device. Hence the potential for abuse.
If anyone reads this and is still using an app after refunding...
https://media.giphy.com/media/Ob7p7lDT99cd2/giphy.gif
I’m actually genuinely shocked to learn this is even possible
From the other thread:
"6.3 In the event that Apple receives any notice or claim from any end-user that: (i) the end-user wishes to cancel its license to any of the Licensed Applications within ninety (90) days of the date of download of that Licensed Application by that end-user; or (ii) a Licensed Application fails to conform to Your specifications or Your product warranty or the requirements of any applicable law, Apple may refund to the end-user the full amount of the price paid by the end-user for that Licensed Application. In the event that Apple refunds any such price to an end-user, You shall reimburse, or grant Apple a credit for, an amount equal to the price for that Licensed Application. Apple will have the right to retain its commission on the sale of that Licensed Application, notwithstanding the refund of the price to the end-user."
Like I've said, I'm not an app developer so I don't know. I'm just adding my opinion like anyone else on here, based on what I've heard.
And you point is? That's what I've been saying all along, if you're refunding apps that work, keeping them on your device and using them then you're abusing the refund system.
But distance selling statutory rights I believe apply, with regards to software downloads here in the UK.
No, lets not.
Now, pay attention: I said "if you're refunding apps that work, keeping them on your device and using them, then you're abusing the refund system". Read that through again, and you'll see I said 'if'.
Yes, it isn't cool. Remember what I posted to you in response to one of your many replies, about thirty minutes ago? You've forgotten? No problem, I'll repost it again for you:
"iTunes Store purchases might be eligible for a refund if the item doesn't work as expected or can't be used."
Nowhere in Apple's terms and conditions of use does it say:
"iTunes Store purchases might be eligible for a refund if you're not into it"
Anything else you want to clear up? Or can I go and have my dinner now?
Nice. Now, on to your ten year old article:
If that ten year old article is correct and still valid, then it's great that developers don't get penalised for unwarranted refunds.
That doesn't change the fact that anyone refunding apps just because 'they're not into it' isn't abusing the system though. Apple don't offer a 'try before you buy' option, so in doing so you're not abiding by the App Stores conditions of use.
I'm bored with this now. Time to go.