I’m lacking some basic understanding of how to use midi in Auria Pro

The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

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Comments

  • @Ripper7620 said:
    The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

    You will need to be more specific. If you post a video to YouTube showing a project (graphic view would be useful) before and after the tempo change it will help.

    To troubleshoot, you should go through each track, soloing so that you can see what is happening to each track.

    My guess is you have both MIDI and audio tracks. So after changing the tempo, your MIDI tracks are at the correct tempo and the audio tracks are at their original tempo.

  • If I remember rightly @Ripper7620 is used to Reaper on the desktop, and AFAIK in Reaper if you change the tempo it will automatically timestretch any audio tracks to fit the new tempo. Auria doesn't do this so audio tracks will remain at their original tempo after the change. MIDI should change without issues but I would need to test this to confirm.

  • ya > @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

    You will need to be more specific. If you post a video to YouTube showing a project (graphic view would be useful) before and after the tempo change it will help.

    To troubleshoot, you should go through each track, soloing so that you can see what is happening to each track.

    My guess is you have both MIDI and audio tracks. So after changing the tempo, your MIDI tracks are at the correct tempo and the audio tracks are at their original tempo.

    Thank you very much for your reply, no, I’m not mixing audio and midi tracks, until after I’ve made a tempo change. I will try to show a before and after pictures of exactly what I’m doing, and the results. I’m sorry I didn’t give a more accurate description of what is going on. In a nutshell, my workflow has been to record all tracks @120bpm, and when finished, increase the tempo, and then lastly, add the audio track of percussion that is synced to the tempo of the project. It may be a bit until I get pictures up, because I just started a new project, and deleted all my old ones.

  • @Ripper7620 said:
    ya > @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

    You will need to be more specific. If you post a video to YouTube showing a project (graphic view would be useful) before and after the tempo change it will help.

    To troubleshoot, you should go through each track, soloing so that you can see what is happening to each track.

    My guess is you have both MIDI and audio tracks. So after changing the tempo, your MIDI tracks are at the correct tempo and the audio tracks are at their original tempo.

    Thank you very much for your reply, no, I’m not mixing audio and midi tracks, until after I’ve made a tempo change. I will try to show a before and after pictures of exactly what I’m doing, and the results. I’m sorry I didn’t give a more accurate description of what is going on. In a nutshell, my workflow has been to record all tracks @120bpm, and when finished, increase the tempo, and then lastly, add the audio track of percussion that is synced to the tempo of the project. It may be a bit until I get pictures up, because I just started a new project, and deleted all my old ones.

    If it is just MIDI, there should be no problem. Solo each track to identify which tracks are not working right. Most likely, you have some synths with arpeggiators or sequences or something and don't have them set to sync to the host tempo - or a delay or something that isn't host tempo synced.

  • @richardyot said:
    If I remember rightly @Ripper7620 is used to Reaper on the desktop, and AFAIK in Reaper if you change the tempo it will automatically timestretch any audio tracks to fit the new tempo. Auria doesn't do this so audio tracks will remain at their original tempo after the change. MIDI should change without issues but I would need to test this to confirm.

    I can confirm that neither in Reaper, or Auria Pro, do I ever try to time stretch or change audio tracks. Audio tracks are the last thing I add, at the exact tempo of the finished product. The issue I’m having is strictly with changing the tempo of only the midi tracks of the finished product, before I add the audio percussion track. When I change the tempo, some tracks get parts cut off, and some get increased in length with dead spots at the end of them. I want to put up some pictures of before and after to clarify, but I’m close to having a nearly finished product yet that I can do that with. Thank you very much for your reply, I appreciate it!

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    ya > @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

    You will need to be more specific. If you post a video to YouTube showing a project (graphic view would be useful) before and after the tempo change it will help.

    To troubleshoot, you should go through each track, soloing so that you can see what is happening to each track.

    My guess is you have both MIDI and audio tracks. So after changing the tempo, your MIDI tracks are at the correct tempo and the audio tracks are at their original tempo.

    Thank you very much for your reply, no, I’m not mixing audio and midi tracks, until after I’ve made a tempo change. I will try to show a before and after pictures of exactly what I’m doing, and the results. I’m sorry I didn’t give a more accurate description of what is going on. In a nutshell, my workflow has been to record all tracks @120bpm, and when finished, increase the tempo, and then lastly, add the audio track of percussion that is synced to the tempo of the project. It may be a bit until I get pictures up, because I just started a new project, and deleted all my old ones.

    If it is just MIDI, there should be no problem. Solo each track to identify which tracks are not working right. Most likely, you have some synths with arpeggiators or sequences or something and don't have them set to sync to the host tempo - or a delay or something that isn't host tempo synced.

    Thank you very much for your reply, to the best of my understanding, all the tracks in question, each individual app is synced to AP. I’m using AP in stand-alone mode, and hosting everything in AP.

  • @Ripper7620 said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    ya > @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    The main issue I’m having, is when I complete a composition in midi in a tempo that’s comfortable for me to play in, and then change the tempo, the majority of the composition gets mangled. In particular, when I change the tempo, some tracks get cut short while others are lengthened, and so it’s not what I started with. Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason. What can I do in order to use AP in midi mode effectively? I assume that it’s totally user error on my part. But in particular, what can I do to avoid my compositions from being altered when I change tempo? Thank you in advance!

    You will need to be more specific. If you post a video to YouTube showing a project (graphic view would be useful) before and after the tempo change it will help.

    To troubleshoot, you should go through each track, soloing so that you can see what is happening to each track.

    My guess is you have both MIDI and audio tracks. So after changing the tempo, your MIDI tracks are at the correct tempo and the audio tracks are at their original tempo.

    Thank you very much for your reply, no, I’m not mixing audio and midi tracks, until after I’ve made a tempo change. I will try to show a before and after pictures of exactly what I’m doing, and the results. I’m sorry I didn’t give a more accurate description of what is going on. In a nutshell, my workflow has been to record all tracks @120bpm, and when finished, increase the tempo, and then lastly, add the audio track of percussion that is synced to the tempo of the project. It may be a bit until I get pictures up, because I just started a new project, and deleted all my old ones.

    If it is just MIDI, there should be no problem. Solo each track to identify which tracks are not working right. Most likely, you have some synths with arpeggiators or sequences or something and don't have them set to sync to the host tempo - or a delay or something that isn't host tempo synced.

    Thank you very much for your reply, to the best of my understanding, all the tracks in question, each individual app is synced to AP. I’m using AP in stand-alone mode, and hosting everything in AP.

    I repeat. Solo each individual track so you know which track or tracks is/are misbehaving. Then get back to us with specifics including screenshots and app/plugin name and shots of their setup.

  • @espiegel123 , thank you very much, I appreciate it, and will do exactly that.

  • Here’s my separate track setup for each track

    Track 1)Sugar Bytes Cyclop with the effects,
    Wow2, FPKT OverdriveFX, & FPKT FlangerFX
    Track 2)Cyclop with the effects, Wow2, & FPTK OverdriveFX
    Track 3)Cyclop with effects, Wow2
    Track 4) Cyclop with effects, Wow2, FPKT OverdriveFX, & FPKT FlangerFX

  • @Ripper7620 said:
    Here’s my separate track setup for each track

    Track 1)Sugar Bytes Cyclop with the effects,
    Wow2, FPKT OverdriveFX, & FPKT FlangerFX
    Track 2)Cyclop with the effects, Wow2, & FPTK OverdriveFX
    Track 3)Cyclop with effects, Wow2
    Track 4) Cyclop with effects, Wow2, FPKT OverdriveFX, & FPKT FlangerFX

    Are you saying that each of those tracks is misbehaving?

    For each track,solo the track. If it misbehaves, disable all the track's effects to see if it is the setup of the synth or the setup of the effect.

    Figure out one track and its effects before moving on to the next.

    It may be that if you figure out one track, it will help you figure out the others.

    Most likely has to do with the sync settings or time settings in the synths and fx

  • Sorry my pictures didn’t get through so I’ll post them one at a time

  • Also, maybe try duplicating your project, change all instances of Cyclop to a different synth and then attempt a tempo change? It could very well be something going on with the modulation timing of Cyclop not agreeing with a tempo change, and this experiment could reveal where you need to make adjustments.

    Also, please share a mixdown of this project as I’m dying to hear how you’ve managed to make a track with 4 instances of Cyclop!

  • edited May 15

    Pictures

  • Pictures

  • Pictures

  • Here’s the picture of the tracks @120 bpm before changing the tempo

  • And here’s what happens when I change the tempo from 120 bpm to 144 bpm. As you can see, it changed the structure t

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Here’s the picture of the tracks @120 bpm before changing the tempo

  • @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

  • @brice said:
    Also, maybe try duplicating your project, change all instances of Cyclop to a different synth and then attempt a tempo change? It could very well be something going on with the modulation timing of Cyclop not agreeing with a tempo change, and this experiment could reveal where you need to make adjustments.

    Also, please share a mixdown of this project as I’m dying to hear how you’ve managed to make a track with 4 instances of Cyclop!

    Thank you very much for your reply, I will try your suggestions, and if I can create something more than a complete disaster, I’ll post it.

  • @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

    Thank you very much for your reply, I am in fact using AU’s for both the Instruments, and effects. I will absolutely take your advice when using IAA apps and effects.

  • @Ripper7620 said:

    @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

    Thank you very much for your reply, I am in fact using AU’s for both the Instruments, and effects. I will absolutely take your advice when using IAA apps and effects.

    You haven't shown us the synth and effects setups.

    BUT before you do that, you need to focus on one track at a time to find the first track that doesn't work right when you change the tempo.

    When you identify that track, disable all the effects. See if the synth track does what you expect when you change tempo.

    If it behaves fine, then re-enable effects one at a time until you find the first misbehaving plugin.

    Then show us the settings for the synth or plugin.

    Troubleshooting something like this (most things actually) starts with narrowing your focus as much as possible then slowly adding things in until they break.

  • @Ripper7620 said:

    @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

    Thank you very much for your reply, I am in fact using AU’s for both the Instruments, and effects. I will absolutely take your advice when using IAA apps and effects.

    Humm. AU apps should all be saving their state. I’ve read of some apps being problematic in that area, so if you can identify which are having the issue, that would be helpful.

    Some apps restore the actual settings of the controls, but don’t update the preset name, and/or don’t restore the knob appearances, even though the controls behind them are saved properly.

    If that’s not it, then my next guess is automation. If you’ve automated some settings changes, then the app may start with the last settings they were automated to. You might need to put in a starting point of the automation at the beginning of the song at the values you expect. That’s just a guess though.

  • @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:

    @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

    Thank you very much for your reply, I am in fact using AU’s for both the Instruments, and effects. I will absolutely take your advice when using IAA apps and effects.

    Humm. AU apps should all be saving their state. I’ve read of some apps being problematic in that area, so if you can identify which are having the issue, that would be helpful.

    Some apps restore the actual settings of the controls, but don’t update the preset name, and/or don’t restore the knob appearances, even though the controls behind them are saved properly.

    If that’s not it, then my next guess is automation. If you’ve automated some settings changes, then the app may start with the last settings they were automated to. You might need to put in a starting point of the automation at the beginning of the song at the values you expect. That’s just a guess though.

    Thank you for your reply, no automation going on, and the only AU that’s misbehaving is Wow2. Wow2 is actually resetting itself without even closing the project, it’s doing it while it’s open, and as I’m working.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:

    @wim said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Also, working in midi, the effects will change presets on their own for no apparent reason.

    These are probably IAA FX. Only AU FX save their state with a project. For IAA apps you need to be sure you save the settings for each app as a preset, then restore those presets on reopening the project. I save the presets with the same name as the projects so that I don’t have to take notes. Or better yet, avoid IAA when I can.

    If that’s not the reason, then I have a few other guesses.

    Thank you very much for your reply, I am in fact using AU’s for both the Instruments, and effects. I will absolutely take your advice when using IAA apps and effects.

    You haven't shown us the synth and effects setups.

    BUT before you do that, you need to focus on one track at a time to find the first track that doesn't work right when you change the tempo.

    When you identify that track, disable all the effects. See if the synth track does what you expect when you change tempo.

    If it behaves fine, then re-enable effects one at a time until you find the first misbehaving plugin.

    Then show us the settings for the synth or plugin.

    Troubleshooting something like this (most things actually) starts with narrowing your focus as much as possible then slowly adding things in until they break.

    Thank you for your reply, I’ll give it a try.

  • @Ripper7620 said:
    Pictures

    Perhaps try turning “grid quantize” on....see if that helps anything?

  • edited May 15

    Wasn’t this a previous bug with midi and tempo changing (see comment)? Was it fixed in the latest update?

    https://forum.audiob.us/post/quote/20109/Comment_375630

  • @brice said:

    @Ripper7620 said:
    Pictures

    Perhaps try turning “grid quantize” on....see if that helps anything?

    Thank you very much, that’s a damn good idea.

  • @mjcouche said:
    Wasn’t this a previous bug with midi and tempo changing (see comment)? Was it fixed in the latest update?

    https://forum.audiob.us/post/quote/20109/Comment_375630

    Honestly, I had expected more from Auria Pro, I didn’t expect to run into something like this using midi, Reaper is definitely a whole nother machine, as far as ease of use.

  • @Ripper7620 said:

    @mjcouche said:
    Wasn’t this a previous bug with midi and tempo changing (see comment)? Was it fixed in the latest update?

    https://forum.audiob.us/post/quote/20109/Comment_375630

    Honestly, I had expected more from Auria Pro, I didn’t expect to run into something like this using midi, Reaper is definitely a whole nother machine, as far as ease of use.

    I am not convinced that this is an Auria Pro problem.

    Have you done the troubleshooting that I recommend to isolate the problem?

    You might want to create a test project with a single track to see if WOW is possibly crashing by using up its memory allocation or something.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Ripper7620 said:

    @mjcouche said:
    Wasn’t this a previous bug with midi and tempo changing (see comment)? Was it fixed in the latest update?

    https://forum.audiob.us/post/quote/20109/Comment_375630

    Honestly, I had expected more from Auria Pro, I didn’t expect to run into something like this using midi, Reaper is definitely a whole nother machine, as far as ease of use.

    I am not convinced that this is an Auria Pro problem.

    Have you done the troubleshooting that I recommend to isolate the problem?

    You might want to create a test project with a single track to see if WOW is possibly crashing by using up its memory allocation or something.

    Thank you, I will, but what’s really puzzling, is why it’s changing the track structures when I change the tempo.

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