The Rattler / Classical Jazz?

edited May 14 in Creations

Is it jazz? Is it classical? One Shigeru concert grand, One Ranenscroft 275, iFretless Bass, AfroLatin Drum Machine and Noise drums.

Comments

  • McDMcD
    edited May 14

    Jazz. Definitely. If you can improvise classical sounding music you would probably delete it as being too predictable. There is a category of "serious music" and this might pass that criteria because it has essentially no rules for what qualifies. It's a brake all the rules but feel free to borrow kind of genre. Seriously. I think it was invented for composers to simple state "I'm not fucking kidding around here." You might think it's "funny" stuff but I'm dead serious here.

    Now. Are you sure you'll admit to not kidding around a bit? It's jazz. No kidding. You don't strike me as a fanatic of any sort.

  • edited May 14

    Just sounds cool. Nice cascading harmonies. Jazz/"classical" whatever. Fusion? :lol:

    Side note: I have no idea what the guy above me just said. I disagree with his statement about improvising classical, in any case. If one has the creative energy to craft nice melodies in real time over interesting harmonies, even in a "classical" (or whatever other common practice period) idiom, it would be super cool and definitely doesn't need to be predictable. And it's not so easy, especially if one is attempting to use the embellishments characteristic of a particular time period, which requires great skill and tons of expressivity. Plenty of surprise in Liszt, Wagner, Beethoven, even Bach. All of these guys love to not follow what may be considered "predictable"/conventional tonal harmony one might study in a formal music program.

  • edited May 14

    @cnsg_music, I think my friend @McD was referring to me improvising classical stuff. He just doesn’t think I would be happy with any attempts at classical improv as I am so iconoclastically rule breaking and improvising in various classical styles would be necessarily rule bound.

    Obviously there is a great legacy of classical improv. Beyond the imprository nature of the cadenza, all the greats could, and did, improvise. Mozart,naturally, I saw the movie! Beethoven did the equivalent of playing phone numbers called out by the audience, and Chopin improvised his pieces and then wrote it all down. And today there are fantastic classical musicians who can play in the style of any composer.

    That being said, here is one I did which is pretty good, I think...

  • @LinearLineman I like this one - I especially like how sparse it is to start. Reminds me of some of the work Wayne Horvitz did with his acoustic combo Sweeter Than The Day....

    I also like the rhythm in the background, but I'd like to hear you play off it more than just having it tooling away in the background. It makes a very interesting backdrop to the piano in the foreground, but I'd love to hear you interact with it more... maybe echo some of the rhythms in your playing to help more fully integrate it into the track.

    This track was particularly lyrical, though. Nice stuff.

  • McDMcD
    edited May 14

    @Linearlineman needs a Drum App that adds drums to his playing and not one that
    uses the MIDI Clock. He typically doesn't play to a metronome. I'm sure he's not the only
    instrumentalist that just hits record and starts playing.

    I wonder if StreamByter could take a stream of Drum App MIDI notes and shift them to align with events on another MIDI Track. Where's @_Ki when you need expertise? (NOTE: writing @_Ki in a comment is like the Bat Signal).

    In a few weeks we'll also be able to ask a Forum developer if his product can help and I'll bet it could. This is a real use case that many might benefit from. Many notes just need a little
    shift to follow slight drifting from the metronome over the course of 16 bars.

    I'll bet there are tools for this on the desktop to serve as a model for a developer that wants to build a new MIDI FX tool to line up 2 or more MIDI tracks around a common flexible pulse.

    Right now the "click" forces someone like @LinearLineman to change his process and he's
    not likely to do that since he enters a meditative state to access his creative process.

    I created a new thread to see if anyone has any input on the Use Case.

  • Thanks, @Daveypoo.... it’s cause I often add the drums after a metronome track is improvised. So there are no drums to play to! I actually like the chance nature of it and that sometimes the one is not in the right place, appeals to the iconoclast in me.

    @McD, actually, I am using the metronome more and more. I just wish the Lumbeats apps could play at half speed, which would have worked really well in this one. I wrote aluis and asked if it is possible.

  • @McD said:
    @Linearlineman needs a Drum App that adds drums to his playing and not one that
    uses the MIDI Clock. He typically doesn't play to a metronome. I'm sure he's not the only
    instrumentalist that just hits record and starts playing.

    I wonder if StreamByter could take a stream of Drum App MIDI notes and shift them to align with events on another MIDI Track. Where's @_Ki when you need expertise? (NOTE: writing @_Ki in a comment is like the Bat Signal).

    ;)

    Hmm, last year i wrote myself an auto-sync script that synced the ‚shifting‘ beathawk midi output on channels 1-15 and additional a constant 4 notes beat on channel 16 to a rozeta bassline sending out a constant 4 note beat on channel 16 in sync to the AUM host.
    The script permanently calculated the offset between the two different notes on channel 16 (they work as 2 clocks) and applied this offset as delay to all other beathawk notes on channel 1 to 15. There is a bit of jitter, but all-in-all it works well and allows for really long AUM jams. Without the script beathawk ran out of AUM sync (and all the other midi sequencers in that session) after about 100 bars.
    Too complicated to setup, so i didn‘t post.

    .

    In the OPs case there is no clock at all to sync to, only notes played. But can one assume that the start of theses notes follow the wanted tempo of song ? Ie they are 1/8, 1/4, 1/16 or multiples of these divisions so that one might derive a common divisor in the time distance of the last xx notes ?

    But having the ‚clock’ does not give an indication where a new beat should start in the notes stream - even when aligning somehow to the tempo by delaying the drum channels notes to the ‚grid‘ of the musical notes, this might be totally off (shifted by n/16th for instance). And the drum channels also does not hint about its start of the rhythm, making it even more complicated. I have no idea on how to solve this problem :/

    Maybe he could use tap tempo of AUM to align the drums beat and tempo during the jam ? I don‘t think it is possible to just use the live played notes of the instrumentalist and the notes output from a drum sequencer to align these.

    .

    If the hosts tempo is approx in sync with the live played tempo and both sources included ‚special notes‘ (as in my case the two different notes on channel 16) ....... but this also would require a special setup: Something like Rozeta Bassline sending a clock note stream with additional beat start marker and a special note from the live player played 4 times defineing the ‚master beat clock‘ . Resync would be done on the next beat (ie the 5th note), the drum pattern would be suppressed as long as the master beat key was not played. The ‚master beat clock note‘ of the live player would also be suppressed, it could be send from a xequence pad window with just a single tap-tempo pad.
    The live played tempo can not be faster than the hosts drum tempo (no negative delay) and should not be much slower than the hosts tempo otherwise the to-be-delayed notes pile up and this could crash the whole session.
    I think there are too many IFs and drawbacks to be practical in live jams.

    .
    .

    Writing this answer took ages, probably the problem is already solved by now....

  • @_ki said:
    Writing this answer took ages, probably the problem is already solved by now....

    I doubt it. Maybe the OP will offer us a typical Cubasis project with one of his extended solos. He says he's using a metronome more and more so the problem might just be selecting a good drum app with an interesting pattern and making it fit. He doesn't seem to think it's really a problem. But as a drummer I find his drummer's to be performing musical malpractice. They need to listen to the GD'ed soloist and find the pocket. As a performer he's a lot less critical and accepts that the drummer might feel it differently.

    So, the tool would be for someone else. Let's see what the main thread brings up to see if more want additional controls for sync'ing drum apps to existing MIDI projects that deviate from the MIDI clock reference.

    On another topic: @Nic is going to take a shot at making a simple MIDI Looper StreamByter script when he drops the next release that has more user data. How cool would that be to use and build on?

  • @_ki and @McD, this is way beyond me! And it isn’t a problem for me. I like It! But when it is straight on I can like it too. I will be posting a new track shortly, Andalusian Doggie. The drummer is right on so we can all breathe a sigh of relief (for the moment). Thanks for listening!

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @_ki and @McD, this is way beyond me! And it isn’t a problem for me. I like It! But when it is straight on I can like it too. I will be posting a new track shortly, Andalusian Doggie. The drummer is right on so we can all breathe a sigh of relief (for the moment). Thanks for listening!

    Well. That does it. There isn't a user that needs this.

    Still. It's an interesting programming question and the release of Mosaic will give us another
    tool to propose and create new solutions for perceived problems. Having a slightly off beat drummer is a huge problem for me. It's just turns an otherwise interesting composition into
    an exercise in frustration.

    Carry on.

    Let's see what the new thread surfaces.

  • "If Pollock experimenting painting like Füssli had a sound, it would sound like this" My younger sister

    Seriously, you got me listening to it twice this time. Really nice improvisation ! Sorry if I sound harsh or even worst, political (oops, couldn't resist saying the forbidden word 😀), but to me the drums are useless on this track. The piano stands perfectly on its own.

    Keep them coming!

    PS: I don't have a sister 😉

  • edited May 15

    @jankun, exactly my thought on listening to the piano track alone. I will redo this today! That will make @McD happy, as well, and I live for his happiness!😉

    Thanks for liking it and Listening! And regards to your sister ( I guess every photo her is naked).

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