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How to get that good ol' Delta Blues sound ?

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  • edited May 2019

    Excellent performance! I think backing off the mic a bit would get closer to an old recording. And use an omni vs a cardioid mic pattern.Your effect chain works great, quality sounds convincing.

    I only recently heard Southern Rag for the first time and am now a Blind Blake fan, what a monster!

  • @dougdi said:
    Excellent performance! I think backing off the mic a bit would get closer to an old recording. And use an omni vs a cardioid mic pattern.Your effect chain works great, quality sounds convincing.

    I only recently heard Southern Rag for the first time and am now a Blind Blake fan, what a monster!

    Thanks for the tips!

    I am still working on transcribing West coast blues. So many variations, and that thumb! Blind Blake is really underrated.

  • McDMcD
    edited May 2019

    I wanted to see what tools I have that might do create a 78 RPM Guitar recording.
    Klevgrand Degrader for the distortion/saturation and FAC Bandit for EQ shaping are what I settled on after sorting through 20 other FX apps:

  • Yes the right thumb is the key to that style and not easy to learn. Not impossible but it would take me a lot of focus to pick up.

  • @McD said:
    I wanted to see what tools I have that might do create a 78 RPM Guitar recording.
    Klevgrand Degrader for the distortion/saturation and FAC Bandit for EQ shaping are what I settled on after sorting through 20 other FX apps:

    I like the sound you're getting but I don't recognize the characteristics of a 78 rpm recording.
    It seems that you're playing on an electric guitar. I am not quite sure but did you apply a reverb on your amp? Maybe switching to an acoustic (nylon or steel strings doesn't really matter) and a completely dry signal (apart from the natural reverb of the room you are recording in) would help do the trick. The guitars on RPM recordings always sound like they have almost no sustain nor resonance.
    I think there is maybe a bit too much of distortion but because of the long sustained notes it is a bit hard to tell. I don't have degrader, is there also some tape wow and flutter effect? Pitch fluctuations is a strong characteristic of these old recordings. On the EQ I would have cut more drastically lows and highs.

    The exemple I posted was recorded using the iPad mic and playing on an nylon string guitar. I think I'll make another exemple using the same effect chain but with more pops and clicks. And this time I will play on my National Resophonic.

  • @JanKun said:
    The exemple I posted was recorded using the iPad mic and playing on an nylon string guitar. I think I'll make another exemple using the same effect chain but with more pops and clicks. And this time I will play on my National Resophonic.

    I didn't detect nylon strings. I'll look forward to the National Resophonic track.

    I recorded a steel string acoustic with an internal pickup rough an audio interface in AUM
    with FAC Bandit to narrow the EQ to mid range only and DeGrader to grunge it up. I agree it almost sounds like an Amp with a torn speaker cone.

    If you would share you AUM project I'd like to see how you set up your FX to get that sound.

    I should try the iPad Mic to see if it makes it sound more like a guitar in a room and not through a terrible amp._

  • @JanKun said:

    @DMan said:
    Wow, not that I love this kind of tone, but it sounds nearly authentic. Like mentioned above it needs some more crackle and pops but it is so close it’s amazing. Excellent job on this, and if you’re playing great playing too. I’m a finger picker too, though I’m not very good at guitar. It’s a bit of a strange balance, but since I taught myself I focused more on my rhythm being a drummer/keyboard player and neglected the fretting hand.

    Thank you ! Fingerpicking sounds good in standard tunings too, but IMHO, fingerpicking sounds best in open tunings. You end up with simple chords shape for the fretting hand giving you more CPU brain resources to focus on the picking patterns. Check on YouTube some videos of Son House or Skip James.

    Yeah, that is my problem is I always leave it in standard tuning. I don’t like retuning all the time, but that’s a good idea since I’m pretty bad with chords anyway.

  • @McD said:

    @JanKun said:
    The exemple I posted was recorded using the iPad mic and playing on an nylon string guitar. I think I'll make another exemple using the same effect chain but with more pops and clicks. And this time I will play on my National Resophonic.

    I didn't detect nylon strings. I'll look forward to the National Resophonic track.

    I recorded a steel string acoustic with an internal pickup rough an audio interface in AUM
    with FAC Bandit to narrow the EQ to mid range only and DeGrader to grunge it up. I agree it almost sounds like an Amp with a torn speaker cone.

    If you would share you AUM project I'd like to see how you set up your FX to get that sound.

    I should try the iPad Mic to see if it makes it sound more like a guitar in a room and not through a terrible amp._

    I don't know how to share a preset with AUM, so I'll share an Audiobus preset including the AUM project as soon as I can.

  • Here is a recording I originally did 5 years ago but, inspired by some suggestions on this forum, I added some extra crackle and pop with Master Record and also some further degradation using Klevgrand DAW Cassette (I don't have the Klevgrand Vinyl app). It was more about getting an old style vocal sound rather than the guitar playing, which is pretty basic 12 bar in standard tuning (with a simulated bottleneck using my fingers as I don't have a bottleneck).

  • @AlterEgo_UK said:
    Here is a recording I originally did 5 years ago but, inspired by some suggestions on this forum, I added some extra crackle and pop with Master Record and also some further degradation using Klevgrand DAW Cassette (I don't have the Klevgrand Vinyl app). It was more about getting an old style vocal sound rather than the guitar playing, which is pretty basic 12 bar in standard tuning (with a simulated bottleneck using my fingers as I don't have a bottleneck).

    This sounds f..... Good, love the vibe, love the sound. Awesome work!

  • @McD @AlterEgo_UK @DMan @dougdi @EyeOhEss @Jomodu @Ripper7620 @AudioGus

    I have been fool(pick)ing around yesterday, and found this. No idea who I unintentionally stole it from, but obviously did. The riff sounds so familiar. Son House? Bukka White? Any idea guys?

    I recorded with my National Resophonic through the iPad mic. Then used the same effect chain without DAW cassette this time. Following @Daveypoo @wim @espiegel123 advices, I added more hiss (maybe too much?) Pops and crackles.

    Listen to The Birth Of Little Blake Johnson by JanKun #np on #SoundCloud

    Let me know what you think.

  • The pact with the devil was bullshit. I believe Robert Johnson was an alien sent on Earth to enlighten Mankind 😉. I assume he had amazingly long and big fingers, though I might be wrong...

    I saw a thing about Robert Johnson on Netflix the other day, apparently he did indeed have very long fingers. They had footage of a bunch of people who'd known him, it was pretty interesting, despite being the usual glossy mythologising BS in style (inevitably it was called 'Crossroads' and something about the devil).

  • @JanKun said:
    Hi,

    Ok for those of you who would suggest me to get old vintage equipment, well, it could be nice but no thanks.

    Since last year iOS musicians got really spoiled with apps for LoFi effects, tape emulators etc... I am especially thinking about Klevgrand apps like DAW cassette, DAW LP, or even REAMP. Also thinking about those vintage delay emulation like Kai Aras amazing RE-1. K7D seems also really good, just bought the app but didn't have the time to experiment.

    Anyway, as a long time guitar player, crazy about open tunings and fingerpicking technique, you can imagine the love I got for all those amazing guitar players from the 30s. I am currently working hard on Blind Blake's right hand technique. Gosh! I don't think he was human 😃

    I have tried to recreate the sound of these old recordings using a combination of a few apps I mentioned above. So far it goes like this in AUM:
    FAC Maxima ->
    Fabfilter proQ2 (cut both high and low frequencies) ->
    RE-1 (delay time to zero, 100% wet and add only Wow, flutter, saturation and hiss ) ->
    DAW cassette ->
    DAW LP ->
    Another FAC Maxima to maximize this seriously damaged sound.

    You can listen to the result here:
    Listen to Mayday by JanKun #np on #SoundCloud

    The guitar part itself is played in open D tuning. I quickly put it together after listening to Sylvester Weaver's "Guitar Rag" and Mississippi John Hurt's "Payday"

    Not talking about the playing itself, what do you guys think about the effect itself? Did some of you already experiment this kind of things on iOS ? Any suggestions ?

    This is very good!
    Sorry for the late listening!
    Very authentic vide!

  • That’s awesome, the quality is perfect! Now just record more good music!

  • edited May 2019

    Here‘s a recently uncovered recording by Mean Hand Martin and Sexy Brit Colin 😉
    (More seriously: inspired by this discussion I tried to apply the mentioned techniques to something I did with Colin Powell (@AlterEgo_UK) earlier this year....)

  • the very first of the fakes turns out to be the most convincing :D
    In all other attempts it's overly clear that no old record is playing (they were all mono).
    If you ever digitized real vinyl, you know that the crackles used here don't match real record damages (which alter their sound with rotation).
    Ambience, amp distortion and mic resolution don't fit with vintage gear.
    A good fake seems more challenging than it may look initially ;)

  • edited May 2019

    @Telefunky said:

    the very first of the fakes turns out to be the most convincing :D
    In all other attempts it's overly clear that no old record is playing (they were all mono).
    If you ever digitized real vinyl, you know that the crackles used here don't match real record damages (which alter their sound with rotation).
    Ambience, amp distortion and mic resolution don't fit with vintage gear.
    A good fake seems more challenging than it may look initially ;)

    Yes, you're right ! Overall it was a good exercice. Good point is that it helped me reconnect with a certain type of playing I only kept for myself. Will keep digging but in a more digital standard fashion. Thanks for the ears !

  • @Tim said:

    The pact with the devil was bullshit. I believe Robert Johnson was an alien sent on Earth to enlighten Mankind 😉. I assume he had amazingly long and big fingers, though I might be wrong...

    I saw a thing about Robert Johnson on Netflix the other day, apparently he did indeed have very long fingers. They had footage of a bunch of people who'd known him, it was pretty interesting, despite being the usual glossy mythologising BS in style (inevitably it was called 'Crossroads' and something about the devil).

    People prefer to remember the legend of a man who sold his soul and died poisoned by a jealous husband instead of the story of a very talented man who practiced for hours sitting under a tree by a crossroad or in a graveyard at night, who was so smart that he brought a whole new level of consistency to blues lyrics and who died most probably of congenital syphilis. Even a musician like Son House couldn't believe Robert Johnson achieved blues mastery in only 2 years by himself. Could it be jealousy that pushed his peers to invoke a devilish intervention to elude achievements they were just not brillant enough to achieve in such a short Life span?

  • @dougdi said:
    That’s awesome, the quality is perfect! Now just record more good music!

    Thank you!
    Can't tell about the sound quality as I am not an expert. But I like a lot the guitar part of the second exemple. I will dig a bit more in that direction.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    @JanKun @Martinj : really nice!

    Thank you!

  • @Martinj said:
    Here‘s a recently uncovered recording by Mean Hand Martin and Sexy Brit Colin 😉
    (More seriously: inspired by this discussion I tried to apply the mentioned techniques to something I did with Colin Powell (@AlterEgo_UK) earlier this year....)

    Great collaboration!

  • @McD said:

    @JanKun said:
    The exemple I posted was recorded using the iPad mic and playing on an nylon string guitar. I think I'll make another exemple using the same effect chain but with more pops and clicks. And this time I will play on my National Resophonic.

    I didn't detect nylon strings. I'll look forward to the National Resophonic track.

    I recorded a steel string acoustic with an internal pickup rough an audio interface in AUM
    with FAC Bandit to narrow the EQ to mid range only and DeGrader to grunge it up. I agree it almost sounds like an Amp with a torn speaker cone.

    If you would share you AUM project I'd like to see how you set up your FX to get that sound.

    I should try the iPad Mic to see if it makes it sound more like a guitar in a room and not through a terrible amp._

    Sorry for the delay. I tried to save the AUM project inside an audiobus preset as it is really easy to share through audiobus server. But Everytime I open the audiobus project, AUM is blank. Don't know what I am doing wrong. I did this before without any problem. Is it easy to share an AUM project without going through audiobus ?

  • @JanKun said:
    Sorry for the delay.

    No problem.

    Is it easy to share an AUM project without going through audiobus ?

    Yes. Just save the AUM project and use one of these methods:

    1. In AUM save the project. Hold your file in the project file in the files list and a pop-up menu with appear with "Share" as an option. Share it to Dropbox and open Dropbox and copy get of copy of the DropBox link to share with us. There are also email and the iCloud folder in the files app that supports links to share files.
    2. or In the IOS Files App in the "On My iPad/AUM" folder.

    The easiest way to share it is with a link after copy the *.aumproj file to DropBox.
    Or use iCloud or email to anyone with a DropBox account also works to share the AUM set-up.

    AudioBus is not required to share from AUM.

  • @McD

    Here is the link to the AUM preset

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1mfns0iqwdt25po/78rpm emulation.aumproj?dl=0

    After listening to a lot of old recordings, I decided to modify the effect chain. I used REAMP (instead of DAW cassette previously) in some kind of subtractive way to reduce distortion in the middle and high. I also added another EQ at the end of the chain to filter hiss, pops and crackles (sounds more convincing to me). I believe that is the closest I can get with what I've got. Another idea would be to treat guitar in one track and hiss pops and crackles in another one then blend everything in mono.
    You will need the following apps: FAC Maxima, FabFilter pro Q2, Numerical Audio RE-1, Klevgrand REAMP, Klevgrand DAW vinyl (optional DDMF NoLimits on the master track)
    Any advice highly appreciated.

  • edited May 2019

    This reminds me, I have a 1952 National Reso-phonic I need to sell.. Looks like this. Will definitely give you that “old-timey” sound.

  • @Lady_App_titude said:
    This reminds me, I have a 1952 National Reso-phonic I need to sell.. Looks like this. Will definitely give you that “old-timey” sound.

    I always wanted to have a 1133... If only I had money. Luckily, I already own a National Reso-phonic Delphi! Thanks

  • Thanks. It worked well for me with a 2 missing pieces:

    1. Klevgrand DAW LP vinyl player simulation
      I'm sure it adds needed vinyl crackle and tone shift

    2. Numerical Audio RE-1 (I own this but it comes up with the INIT settings and blocks all
      audio in that setting. Possible description fo knob settings to use this for me).

    I think the 2 instances of Pro Q2 targeting mid-frequencies is doing most of the heavy lifting.

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